WO Steam Discussion

[Zera 175]

10 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

 

I am a player in this game. Who are you?

 

And yes, I consider your rant, or "concern", baseless and illogical. And utterly irrelevant.  The new server/s will be launched. They will hopefully be a success, develop and florish.

I do not know how much you ever played in Wurm. I am here not that long time, but have played a bit, developped my deed and its environs, made friends in and outside my alliance, travelled the world, learnt a few skills, participated in events and infrastructure projects. There are still loads of tasks before me, lots of things I have at best heard of.

 

10 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

And you are going to tell me it would be normal to throw all that away for "a fresh start"? Granted, I joined, and enjoyed a while, that start from zero on Jackal. Maybe I shall go there once more, one portal away from my deed, my ships, my friends, all my resources and tools gathered.

 

Ok, some, who played a lot longer, or only short time. may be tired of the old world , and enjoy a fresh start, most likely mothballing their WO character and valuables. Some returners may decide to go to the steam side instead of reintegrating into the old world. Especially PvP players may enjoy new faces and new butts to kick. Conversely, some new players from the steam side may choose to prefer the already developped world,.

 

My 2 years prognosis is based on what I heard about newly founded servers in the past. It is more of a maximum assumption for a healthy playerbase to develop. And sure, I may be wrong, but tell me: Given steam is a success, new players will come, most to the new servers, but some, hopefully not too few, to the existing ones too, why should they be held apart indefinitely? Was Xanadu held apart indefinitely? All of Wurm is hoped to expand and flourish, as Rolf as well as Retro explained. That is the plan, for the game to survive on the long range, and of course, for the company to earn money.

 

So what. It is fully in my rights to voice my opinion and to debunk FUD. And what is obviously illogical and contradictory, I take the freedom to call wrong.

 

 

People may indeed do strange things and take strange decisions. Only I do not see that masses do. Some will migrate for a couple of reasons. But I doubt that for many a perspective of future fusion is any decisive if important.

 

 

To which extent the new servers are technically seperate is not to me to decide, and not to you, also not, whether they can interact e.g. sharing channels for chat and help and what else. I am sure that reasonable suggestions will be picked up and evaluated, without being a member of the team, just from my experience. Here on Xanadu I am also "divided" from Celebration unless sailing there, and Xanadu was once completely "divided" from the rest, as were some other then new servers. It may be "completely irrelevant!" for what you confuse with logic (and business calculation) how many players come to Wurm, come to the old and the new servers. For the game, and the company, it is a matter of survival.

 

 

There are no "facts standing", only speculation and rants. In the first place, there will be a separation, which you may scold as "wall between servers", "division" (with or without capitals), or even the ingrained evilness of the team. In the first place, it is a pragmatic step preventing the new environment to be steamrolled by old WO. What will develop, we shall see.

I have been with Wurm for atleast 9-10 years or so now, I've seen new servers release, and I recall the Xanadu land-rush well. I was apart of it.

 

 

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And you are going to tell me it would be normal to throw all that away for "a fresh start"? 

I am telling you that you are wrong for making assumptions on anyone's behalf that they would prefer to continue or abandon their existing characters whatever their reasoning may be. That you are wrong for completely ignoring the idea that there may be some people who would take this into consideration and assume that despite whatever their existing character values may be, would be the holding factor of that server/character's staying power.

You simply cannot make that judgement call one way or the other. Although it is obvious what you stand, you cannot make assumptions for anyone else but yourself.

 

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Given steam is a success, new players will come, most to the new servers, but some, hopefully not too few, to the existing ones too, why should they be held apart indefinitely?

That is the whole concern. That is the part you continue to fail to understand with each of my posts. You believe that servers will be linked at some point, that it is undeniable that this is going to occur. What you fail to realize that is no where has it been officially stated one way or the other, only hinted at that they may or may not be.

With that, I and anyone else are completely in the Right! to be concerned one way or another whether this is indeed planned to link or not to.

Which is what I continue to try to get across to you each time you come back here and try to protest that my (or anyone else with the same concerns) is wrong for having so.

The Xanadu map release is nothing like what this Steam map release is and as such we cannot assume that they will be treated the same way. No matter how much we would like to think that they would be.

 

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So what. It is fully in my rights to voice my opinion and to debunk FUD. And what is obviously illogical and contradictory, I take the freedom to call wrong.

You are in your right to voice your opinion and disagree. You have no power to "debunk" anything as you have no authority or "foot in the door" otherwise to make that official call. You have freedom to disagree and freedom to state why you disagree. Not to tell someone else they are wrong because you have no more of an idea realistically of what they're going to do than anyone else.
As I've stated, you are not a member of the team therefore you cannot say one way or the other what the teams plans are going forward with the new map and whether or not it will indeed be linked with the existing maps or not.

Do not confuse your opinions and thoughts on the matter with actual facts.

 

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To which extent the new servers are technically seperate is not to me to decide, and not to you, also not, whether they can interact e.g. sharing channels for chat and help and what else. I am sure that reasonable suggestions will be picked up and evaluated, without being a member of the team, just from my experience. Here on Xanadu I am also "divided" from Celebration unless sailing there, and Xanadu was once completely "divided" from the rest, as were some other then new servers.

This exactly, which again is why you have no authority to tell someone else they are wrong for their concerns. It is not for you decide.

You are not "divided" from Celebration in the sense that the concern I have mentioned. You can still sail to Celebration, you can still speak with Celebration and you can still send mail to Celebration players, from Xanadu.
The concern once again is that the new Steam server(s) will NOT be linked. That no sailing, no trading, no mailing will ever be made possible.

Do not confuse the "Need to sail" as a division of servers is in anyway the same as the in-ability to sail between servers in the first place.

 

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Whether you personally are OK with that behavior is what is irrelevant here. The facts still stand, that a separation of servers, the lack of ability to interact, a "Wall between servers" is a Division.

There are no "facts standing", only speculation and rants. In the first place, there will be a separation, which you may scold as "wall between servers", "division" (with or without capitals), or even the ingrained evilness of the team. In the first place, it is a pragmatic step preventing the new environment to be steamrolled by old WO. What will develop, we shall see.

Is this your attempt to say that the definition of "division" isn't a solid fact? Because this is the only thing I'm getting from this part.
A division is what it is. Just in-case let me leave this here.

Yes I speculate that the servers may never be linked, which was stated once upon a time. It was also stated that they may or may not be. So the official call on the matter is still very much in the air and has not been officially made one way or the other.
Making both of our claims legitimate, no one more or less wrong and neither worth dismissing.
Which is why it is absolutely infuriating that you come onto this thread and try to tell me that my concerns are entirely wrong and any points I've made towards said concerns are illegitimate. Especially considering that you have in no way power to do so from an official/staff standpoint with actual insight knowledge on the matter.

 

 

Now, you can continue to tell yourself that everything is going to be fine, they will link the servers eventually and be happy with that.

For the rest of us however who would like actual information from the Team on what the plans are and who may or may not be deciding how to proceed based on that actual information, leave us to speculate and wait for an official response.

You continuing to demean our concerns, thoughts and opinions on the matter simply because you are convinced that what you believe to be true, is rude and unfounded. Quite frankly is how wars are started even.

So I ask you kindly, stop trying to demean others for their concerns, thoughts and speculations and "agree to disagree" without trying to tell someone they are entirely wrong for their thoughts and feelings. You are not a mind-reader and have no control over someone else so stop trying to do so through the forums. It only makes you look like a bad person.

[Jore 338]

1 hour ago, Zera said:

You say this like you'd prefer to continue to keep separate clusters indefinitely. Once the "new release" on Steam wears off.

I am not talking about linking the servers right away, or even quickly.

I am speaking as if the plan is to NEVER link the servers. So once these "new players" and "new server" are no longer "new" anymore, you would continue to see these separated clusters?

 

I do wish folks would read what is said before deciding to read between only the lines they wish to see and making hasty comments.

 

It has already been said that it is unknown if/when the clusters will merge. There's no further reason to sit here arguing over it, especially since we don't even have a date for the launch of said servers. Relax, be patient, and await further information as I'm sure they have or will consider the numerous (mostly repeated) arguments of these threads. 

[Zera 175]

29 minutes ago, Jore said:

It has already been said that it is unknown if/when the clusters will merge. There's no further reason to sit here arguing over it, especially since we don't even have a date for the launch of said servers. Relax, be patient, and await further information as I'm sure they have or will consider the numerous (mostly repeated) arguments of these threads. 

Do not mistake my posts as "argument".
I'm quite frankly tired of folks who are picking apart my posts for what they wish to see and attacking me for them.

I voiced my concerned, asked for Official input on the matter and nothing more. I cannot sit by and simply allow several people on this thread thus far attack me for voicing said concerns and questions.

The only impatience I am having is with those who would sit here and tell me I am wrong for having said concerns or voicing them in the first place. Requesting Official information on the matter or Official input is not "arguing". The only "arguing" you will actual find from me is with those would sit here and tell me that I am wrong for having said concerns/thoughts or voicing them at all.

 

I would appreciate it if you would not join in on the apparent idea that taking bits and pieces of what I've said as a way to "argue" any matter, as well as joining in on basically telling me that I am ridiculous for having said thoughts or concerns.
That is after all the point and purpose of a discussion is not?

 

I implore you to go back and read from the beginning before deciding to continue to tell me that I am in-fact arguing or attempting to tell others that it is certain to be one way or the other on the matter.

[Retrograde 12,013]

Pristine and Release used to be on their own cluster as well and it went quite well. 

 

They were connected to the entire Freedom server group when Xanadu was launched so there is precedent in both a disconnected cluster (that had its own organic economy, player-base, and market) and connecting them later. 

 

At launch this new server will be disconnected. Connection may happen at some stage but there is no set time-frame. We will simply review the situation as it goes. 

[hankrearden 144]

2 hours ago, Zera said:

You say this like you'd prefer to continue to keep separate clusters indefinitely. Once the "new release" on Steam wears off.

I am not talking about linking the servers right away, or even quickly.

I am speaking as if the plan is to NEVER link the servers. So once these "new players" and "new server" are no longer "new" anymore, you would continue to see these separated clusters?

 

I do wish folks would read what is said before deciding to read between only the lines they wish to see and making hasty comments.

 

I am 100% fine with the server clusters never linking so long as the new cluster remains popular. the purpose of this new cluster is to benefit the players there, not to benefit players on the freedom cluster.

[Zera 175]

3 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Pristine and Release used to be on their own cluster as well and it went quite well. 

 

They were connected to the entire Freedom server group when Xanadu was launched so there is precedent in both a disconnected cluster (that had its own organic economy, player-base, and market) and connecting them later. 

 

At launch this new server will be disconnected. Connection may happen at some stage but there is no set time-frame. We will simply review the situation as it goes. 

Thank you for your input Retro, this is all I have been asking for since my original reply to this thread to begin with.
Even if folks refused to understand that.

 

Unfortunately there's still that may happen uncertainty that leaves the idea of linking up in the air and what has been on my mind and a concern since the announcement of said new server.

It's the may that determines how I will personally proceed and effects how I feel in the long-run. Which is why I had hoped for something a little more concrete with even long-term plans on the server.

 

"No we do not ever plan to link the servers, but we will be constantly monitoring data and re-evaluating as time goes on."

vs.
"We would like to link the servers, but we will continue to monitor data and re-evaluate as time goes on."

 

It's the may that leaves a swinging door hanging on it's hinges of uncertainty that makes me uneasy on the whole ordeal.

 

I understand that there have been servers in the past that were part of their own cluster for some time, but they were in-fact linked at some point. I am only asking if that is indeed that plan "at some point" for the new server(s) that will release with Steam. A considered time-line provided/considered or not. It's not a time-line I'm looking for (unless we count a release date 😜) but simply the long-term ideas/plans for the linking of the server(s).

At this point I am forced to continue thinking as though these new server(s) that will be introduced with Steam Release would never be linked, simply for my own sanity sake and personal reasoning moving forward in the game that is WO.
That is of course not to say that I would be telling others for certain that the servers would in-fact never link, but only that is how I would approach it on a personal level. Since after all, it still has not been said one way or the other the long-term plans based on the linking between new and old. Only my speculation.

 

I apologize if I seem demanding, needy or otherwise but with the announcement of the Steam release the entire dynamic of my Deed and it's Members has shifted entirely and I am trying to figure out how to approach this news going forward.

Thank you for your patience with me and everyone else on the matter and for your input as always.

[Retrograde 12,013]

I think there's a little too much overthinking there! Long term we simply don't know, and the launch of Pristine and Release had no plan either (in-fact it was a player vote to connect it or not at the news of Xanadu's launch). 

 

I can't give an answer either way due to the fact it may change, I can say that there's many players that want it one way or another, but for your sake:

 

Play where you are happy, Steam players will be able to join the old lands, and they will all be the same servers and code. 

 

 

[Zera 175]

44 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

I think there's a little too much overthinking there! Long term we simply don't know, and the launch of Pristine and Release had no plan either (in-fact it was a player vote to connect it or not at the news of Xanadu's launch). 

 

I can't give an answer either way due to the fact it may change, I can say that there's many players that want it one way or another, but for your sake:

 

Play where you are happy, Steam players will be able to join the old lands, and they will all be the same servers and code. 

 

 

Overthinking has always been my curse.
Thank you again. 💚

[nitram20 90]

Problem is, i know plenty of people who would want to play there, but only if The servers stay permanently seperate. This whole “may or may not be connected” mindset turns them off completely however and they wont play.

[Ekcin 2,407]

20 minutes ago, nitram20 said:

Problem is, i know plenty of people who would want to play there, but only if The servers stay permanently seperate. This whole “may or may not be connected” mindset turns them off completely however and they wont play.

The problem ist that the "I know plenty of people who would want to play .. if"-meme has already been overused and ridden to death in PvP-related quarreling during the last years. Conversely "will never be connected" will certainly abhor others. Retrograde made a sane point. Watch the servers, and the game as a whole, developping after the launch, and base further decisions on facts arising therefrom. All else is not helpful.

[Evilreaper 262]

with all these talks of raising caps for f2p seems utterly pointless and brutal way to go about making the game more playable as a new player...

 

why not lower the req for a few things ie: drive a cart req 19.5ML (what you already start with) and ride a horse 20.0 BC so you can do it in under an hour...

 

edit: make loading items req 20 body str?

Edited May 8, 2020 by Evilreaper

[Snowmantis 36]

On 5/8/2020 at 9:29 AM, nitram20 said:

Problem is, i know plenty of people who would want to play there, but only if The servers stay permanently seperate. This whole “may or may not be connected” mindset turns them off completely however and they wont play.

 

I was just talking to some of my Steam friends in an attempt to have them join me on the new Steam release server and this question definitely came up.    Some didn't care as they never played before, some have played and didn't like putting in a year of game time to be told that the server would be joining the main cluster.   I asked the following of those that had concerns:  If you advanced your character on the Steam release server and you wanted to leave would you pay a one way ticket (character transfer) to the main cluster instead of the enter server joining the cluster and they all said YES.   Of course the conversation broke down from there due to all the other logistics of what could they take?  Merchant? Horse(s), ships? Carts, wagons?  But, the consensus was overwhelmingly to keep the server separate.  

 

I also understand that the in the past other start-separate servers have joined the cluster after a period of time, but I'd also like to point out that I don't think there was any real polling on the matter other than general forum polling.   If the Steam server was ever considered to join the main cluster in the future then I would hope that a real poll of paid premium players of the Steam server would be part of the process.

[nitram20 90]

A one way transfer after a while for those who want to leave could work. 

[Zera 175]

13 minutes ago, nitram20 said:

A one way transfer after a while for those who want to leave could work. 

Yeah I don't think that's right.
Either you can come and go or you can't. There's no "one time" transfer off, that's just not right.

If the argument to allow such a thing is going to be based on the idea that you'd be taking a character from a "lower skill map to a higher skill map" how does that hold up for lower skill characters not being able to transfer in?
And at what point do you consider said "lower skill character value"?

 

It's either connected and you can move between them or you can't. Not on an exception basis or otherwise.

[hankrearden 144]

50 minutes ago, nitram20 said:

A one way transfer after a while for those who want to leave could work. 

+1

makes a lot of sense. don't really see any downside.

[Satch 41]

18 hours ago, Snowmantis said:

 

I was just talking to some of my Steam friends in an attempt to have them join me on the new Steam release server and this question definitely came up.    Some didn't care as they never played before, some have played and didn't like putting in a year of game time to be told that the server would be joining the main cluster.   I asked the following of those that had concerns:  If you advanced your character on the Steam release server and you wanted to leave would you pay a one way ticket (character transfer) to the main cluster instead of the enter server joining the cluster and they all said YES.   Of course the conversation broke down from there due to all the other logistics of what could they take?  Merchant? Horse(s), ships? Carts, wagons?  But, the consensus was overwhelmingly to keep the server separate.  

 

I also understand that the in the past other start-separate servers have joined the cluster after a period of time, but I'd also like to point out that I don't think there was any real polling on the matter other than general forum polling.   If the Steam server was ever considered to join the main cluster in the future then I would hope that a real poll of paid premium players of the Steam server would be part of the process.

 

Couldn't agree more. Steam server(s) (will there be a PvP server also?) really need to remain separate unless they don't take off, in which case the devs would have no choice but to merge. If the Steam launch is successful, then there would only be a merge based on a vote by the paid premium Steam players just like Pristine and Release, which proved to be popular method.

 

On a side note, I think it would be great to have Steam PvE and PvP servers that are connected. This would offer a home for the PvP players, while granting the PvE players an opportunity to experience that part of the game whenever they might desire, while also driving the economy in new ways.

[WittleBunnBun 149]

Is WO steam coming out soon? 

[Finnn 3,303]

4 minutes ago, WittleBunnBun said:

Is WO steam coming out soon? 

NOBODY knows, there's just a date on steam, no news of any kind about it for months now.

[Zera 175]

3 minutes ago, Finnn said:

NOBODY knows, there's just a date on steam, no news of any kind about it for months now.

We can hope it's soon though, because I'll tell ya I'm certain my browser is exhausted having been refreshed on all informational sources multiple times a day.

Very anxious over here.. 😕
Especially since "Mid 2020" is already here.

[Angelklaine 4,266]

I rather they release it a little delayed if that means they ironed all the kinks out beforehand. Would be really nice to have a release with a bunch of new content so it feels like a whole new adventure.

[Zera 175]

3 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

I rather they release it a little delayed if that means they ironed all the kinks out beforehand. Would be really nice to have a release with a bunch of new content so it feels like a whole new adventure.

Unless you're still playing on WO anyway then it's hardly "new" since you're already doing it in the first place.

[zethreal 582]

51 minutes ago, Zera said:

We can hope it's soon though, because I'll tell ya I'm certain my browser is exhausted having been refreshed on all informational sources multiple times a day.

Very anxious over here.. 😕
Especially since "Mid 2020" is already here.

 

I think "Mid 2020" was listed because the plan was WO moving from Hetzner to AWS, then releasing on Steam. Since AWS is not what they expected and not a workable solution, I believe they'll likely hold off on the release until they do get a better solution for server hosting. I mean, I could be wrong.

[Zera 175]

9 minutes ago, zethreal said:

 

I think "Mid 2020" was listed because the plan was WO moving from Hetzner to AWS, then releasing on Steam. Since AWS is not what they expected and not a workable solution, I believe they'll likely hold off on the release until they do get a better solution for server hosting. I mean, I could be wrong.

That's what I figured was the case too honestly.

I suppose it would just be nice to get something a little more concrete of a time-line at this point. "Mid 2020" is very broad still and currently is likely to cause a lot of skepticism on Steam because it's already upon us.

If I have learned anything from Steam users, or at-least a majority, when it comes to games and their "time frames" the users are not very forgiving at all. Time that comes and goes or gets "Close" with no further information are almost instantly frowned upon and treated as if the company/developer in question is just stringing them along.

Good intentions or not.
There is very little patience for "Soon" statements with Steam Players in general. Right now that's the vibe the "Mid 2020" is giving.

 

I'm trying to have patience myself, but I'll admit it is difficult when a lot of us still have nothing but time on our hands and the looming "Soon" is hanging over our heads with no further news on the matter.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Zera

[WittleBunnBun 149]

A few ppl from WU want to come check it out together so I am trying to figure out logistics. Ty all that discussed my original question  

[Zera 175]

  

On 9/23/2019 at 8:31 AM, Rolf said:

Hmm no not really a revamp. It would mean opening a new server with the same code as before and releasing the game client for free on Steam. If we need more servers because a lot of players come we would start new ones.

The existing servers will remain.

I don't know the difference between a dream and a plan. Thinking about something becomes a plan I think, especially when you ask around and find out if there are any showstoppers or big problems with the idea. It's not like we need to plan a lot more once we've discussed this thoroughly. Then it's more "should we do it or not" and take the obvious steps.
 

I was reading this back in the beginning of the thread and it sparked some new questions.
 

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If we need more servers because a lot of players come we would start new ones.

At what point is it determined we'd need more new servers?
Would that be once the first new server is full or when all existing servers (including the old ones) are full?

 

If it's the "first new server" then wouldn't just continuing to add more and more servers on-top of what we already have add more un-needed strain/work in general when the server space IS available, it just isn't available in that "Fresh Space" sense.
 

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The existing servers will remain.

While I understand that the plan is to keep the existing servers, what if the existing servers actually wound up having no playerbase left on them?
For whatever reason that would be. Whether it's because players have decided to ship-off to another map entirely, or migrate to the new map(s) on Steam?

If the currently existing maps were in-fact unpopulated, largely, for an extended period of time would they still even need to be maintained in existance?

This one is more for my own curiosity than anything and I realize that this is probably something that hasn't been discussed or considered yet as it is FAR too early to even do so.

 

On 9/23/2019 at 10:39 AM, Rolf said:

The account databases will most probably be the same so you can't register MrJonnyboy on Steam if the account is created already. So if MrJonnyboy is premium on existing servers you can't play him on the Steam servers since the account already exists. If you create MrJonnyboyTwo via Steam you can prem him up via Steam. You will probably be able to prem him up via our website as well but we'll have to sort that out carefully due to Valve's RMT restrictions. 

I was led to believe that the new Steam WO would be the same thing as the current Client and we could interact with characters from either Website registration OR Steam registration in either manner.

There are a couple of games that require you register on a separate website altogether and they handle everything with your account(s) on that site as opposed to Steam directly.

 

So officially, as of now. What is the plan with this?
Steam will provide a pre-packaged WO client to allow players to get into the game without having to do anything extra (install JRE and such), obviously.
But what will this mean for accounts directly? New and Old and how Premium/Payments in general are handled?

Has this been discussed and planned/figured out yet?