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1 hour ago, Zibens said:

Hardcore grinding games, like Wurm is dying. 

If you want to be on a sinking ship, keep on sailing.

 

If you need an example, look at Runescape. New runescape is a joke of grind in comparison to the old one.

The truth is, wurm must adapt to the new generation of gaming, in order to survive.

 

Wurm is fun, the way it is, WHEN there are enough players, but it has not been for ages now.

You talk about new players?  What you expect the new players to see? You expect new players to see this "exciting" combat? You expect non-hardcore grinding players to sit hours at the forge, improving that good old cauldron full with needles?

I've spoken with dozen ex-wurmians, what all of them said is the same. Game got boring. You keep sitting at that forge improving your needles (which you will dump afterwards, anyways), just to get that skill to 70.

The time you spent doing that, basicly burned you through, and you got sick of it.

There are few dozen of players who enjoy doing that. Good luck running MMO, with that limited of a playerbase.

 

 

Seeing some posts about the "major updates", new content, i'm shocked...

Tell me, what update was so major? New textures? New furniture? New sounds? Sheesh.. 


Wurm Unlimited is MUCH greater than Wurm Online. Passionate server owners developing their plugins, implementing new stuff into the game, for the fun of it.

They are doing it not for the profit, but for the sake of content. There is an actual development involved in the servers. Some i've found way more fun than WO.

Stop trying to pour the water out of a sinking ship, fix the holes, before doing so.

 

 

 

agree with you, but we only can discuss about it, final decition is up to wurm new owners, so lets them hit the wall and see if they cross it or not...

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People are always avoided hardcore grinding games, it's not a new trend.

 

Latest trend was with very simplistic games that carried player on autopilot, and people started to hate it also, searching for more challenge.

 

Best example is wow classic, that is very succesfull right now and is much more grindy then retail version, and expect more effort from player overall.

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6 hours ago, Zibens said:

You keep sitting at that forge improving your needles (which you will dump afterwards, anyways), just to get that skill to 70.

The time you spent doing that, basicly burned you through, and you got sick of it.

 

Just to point something out "you are doing it wrong" ;):P
Buy a set of horse shoes from different quality(10 difference upwards) if your skill is 40 buy a 50 60 70 80 85 90 95 set and start imping that 50 one none stop until your skill gets close enough or you notice you are imping too often move on to the 60 and repeat this combined with a full set of coc tools and sleep bonus will get you that blacksmithing to 90 in no time and you will be left with a bunch of horse shoes at 95 of which some might have even gone rare that you can sell and you will have made your money back on the horse shoe investment from before

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20 hours ago, Retrograde said:

I think there's quite a difference between the MMO version and the spinoff private server version. 

I had this whole post written up and then somehow it got all deleted by the stupid text editor so in short il list it below again

Anyway you think the difference is big i as a player think it is small they are the same game 1 is just more social the other is more freedom
Wu has higher active player counts then wo it reaches higher peaks too

Companies who drop support for a game and then release a new version that is slightly different get blasted online in this day and age
All it takes is 1 post on r/games with 5-6 people to talk on it for it to blow up and be yet another company doing dirty tricks(guys behind ark are a good example)
Youtube channels like yongyea legacykillaHD or belluar news love it when companies pull ###### moves like this as it creates content for their video's
Heck sidalpha has an entire series dedicated to dirty dev's where he talks about companies big and small from triple a studio's to 1 man dev studio's he doesnt care if there is a story a video will be made

You want wurm online steam edition to work but it will not work by dropping support to an already existing product as it will only piss off those customers who use that product and those youtube channels will eat you up milk you and spit you out after their video's are made
Those 3 channels alone have a subscriber count of 1272600 users(give or take) that is 1.2m subs that could potentially see a story about "indy dev company dropping support for existing steam game to push people to pay monthly instead" as a title or "indy dev screwing over loyal fan base for more money" there are many ways to spin it but the channels are out there and both big and small will love a juicy story coming from an indy company to have a change of pace away from the big bad 3(ea activision-blizzard and bethasda) and the viewers will love it too and then good luck making gcg happy

It honestly is not worth it you might think "oh its only a small handful of people who arent happy with wu being dropped" but we only need a small handful to be angry or to report something for it to blow up and no one wants that to happen
Maybe still keep doing updates to wu but then once every 6 months or once a year and just create a proper pipeline for it so that its easy to strip out content you dont want wu to get(like rifts) and give those who own wu on steam a coupon for free prem(existing wu players only) for 3 months or something after first prem purchase on steam version
Those 2 things combined will probably please the biggest loud mouths and will prevent those youtube channels from going "oh they dropped support in order for monthly payments" as that will make people think "oh they are doing what bethesda is doing" and then good luck fixing your image afterwards

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I fully agree to wipeout. The decision to drop WU support is likely to stoke resentment and anger in WU communities, and could harm WO and the planned steam move quite a lot. More over, it will cut the synergies between WU and WO development. Many nice improvements on WO are owed to ideas developped and tested on WU servers.

 

I think WU people should and might accept a reduced frequency of updates, maybe even giving out some data to modders so that they may implement changes on their own prior to those updates (this is done e.g. when forks in open source are cooperating). But just leaving WU out in the cold would be a bad move and has been a wrong decision.

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48 minutes ago, wipeout said:

Just to point something out "you are doing it wrong" ;):P
Buy a set of horse shoes from different quality(10 difference upwards) if your skill is 40 buy a 50 60 70 80 85 90 95 set and start imping that 50 one none stop until your skill gets close enough or you notice you are imping too often move on to the 60 and repeat this combined with a full set of coc tools and sleep bonus will get you that blacksmithing to 90 in no time and you will be left with a bunch of horse shoes at 95 of which some might have even gone rare that you can sell and you will have made your money back on the horse shoe investment from before

 

I think I spot a small flaw here, when we talking fresh new servers without vets... who is going to sell that set of higher quality horseshoes? :D

 

WO Shop Skilling Sets? ^_^

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally I never minded the grind, heck I did nothing but 2 months of WS each day to get it to 90+ .... what I did mind and post about before was the lack of a reason to grind combat skills for example, there was never a reason to have it super high, stuff gets easier - sure, but there is never a real challange out there that makes you go "Oh damn if I had Drake Scale with an whatever the most awesome weapon is now" to do this content.

 

There is just no real "need" for anything to be that high to do whatever.

 

Same goes with other skills, some do unlock certain items by their skill... like Wagons or such require whatever high FC it was and so on, but thats limited to very few items compared how many items Wurm has.

 

I just want a goal to look forward to in Wurm and my Deed and how I envision it should not be the only goal.

It's easy to give players Tools and be like "create your own adventure!" and while thats fine and cool, the World of Wurm itself is rather bland.... it's just maps that sometimes have a unique mob but otherwise nothing really to "discover" that would make exploring worth it.

I know it's not easy to make such dynamic content and they tried in form of Rifts and such but yea.... I am not traveling a day or two to take part in a 1-2h content thing that is just slaying a few waves of mobs.

The Jackal thing seemed interesting, but it being split from the "real wurm world" so to say, killed its appeal for me.

I want to use my character that I worked on with the gear i grinded for, not start over nakid.

 

I will wait for the Steam Servers and play there, but my hopes are very limited, it may as well be the last time we get to experience something like this before it will sunset.

I wish I could be more positive and I have the urge to play right now, but I just see no point in it with new servers coming up.... it's weird, maybe I am weird, I don't know. ._.

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1 minute ago, Milkdrop said:

 

I think I spot a small flaw here, when we talking fresh new servers without vets... who is going to sell that set of higher quality horseshoes? :D

 

WO Shop Skilling Sets? ^_^

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally I never minded the grind, heck I did nothing but 2 months of WS each day to get it to 90+ .... what I did mind and post about before was the lack of a reason to grind combat skills for example, there was never a reason to have it super high, stuff gets easier - sure, but there is never a real challange out there that makes you go "Oh damn if I had Drake Scale with an whatever the most awesome weapon is now" to do this content.

 

There is just no real "need" for anything to be that high to do whatever.

 

Same goes with other skills, some do unlock certain items by their skill... like Wagons or such require whatever high FC it was and so on, but thats limited to very few items compared how many items Wurm has.

 

I just want a goal to look forward to in Wurm and my Deed and how I envision it should not be the only goal.

It's easy to give players Tools and be like "create your own adventure!" and while thats fine and cool, the World of Wurm itself is rather bland.... it's just maps that sometimes have a unique mob but otherwise nothing really to "discover" that would make exploring worth it.

I know it's not easy to make such dynamic content and they tried in form of Rifts and such but yea.... I am not traveling a day or two to take part in a 1-2h content thing that is just slaying a few waves of mobs.

The Jackal thing seemed interesting, but it being split from the "real wurm world" so to say, killed its appeal for me.

I want to use my character that I worked on with the gear i grinded for, not start over nakid.

 

I will wait for the Steam Servers and play there, but my hopes are very limited, it may as well be the last time we get to experience something like this before it will sunset.

I wish I could be more positive and I have the urge to play right now, but I just see no point in it with new servers coming up.... it's weird, maybe I am weird, I don't know. ._.

See the thing is wurm was originally going to be pvp only but thanks to a big group of players in its early days this was made to be a pve area first then pvp and pve separate but high combat is still a must for pvp to survive(dont want others to be stronger then you) as for pve 95+ fighting 90+ weapon skill ql 90 drake and you can take down a troll at no stam without running to low health add in 60+ body strength and you wont even reach 70% health(without lt) sure its not a "must have or else i get 1 shot" but its a nice have to have high
As for goals i agree with you partly i wish there where some goals(next to journal) like community getting together or solo goals that take a long time to do require a lot of effort and time and mats but again adding in just a few of those will make people grind to them and then complain about wanting more
For me currently my current plans are redesign my deed, finish making my 5 big farm lands, create my 2nd storage deed, create my off deed animal pen area, wall off my entire mountain range with 2 sets of walls(1 side rendered tall wall other side hedge with a 2 wide road in between), hollow out the mountain range and setup wurms first junk yard where people can drop stuff off they dont need anymore be it mission items or furniture or what ever else and il store it in a big big giant walled off area away from everyone so that it wont lag anyone 
Id say those self created goals will keep me busy for atleast 3-4 more years if even that

As for travel to rifts  have summon soul be able to teleport with your horse that you are leading(1 horse only and lead only not ride and give warning on riding) and then a return soul spell afterwards this will make it so that priests can be useful to summon people from coast lines back and forth to rifts and their boats(costing 100 favor both spells as it does now) would make you only have to travel to nearest coast line ;)

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6 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

I fully agree to wipeout. The decision to drop WU support is likely to stoke resentment and anger in WU communities, and could harm WO and the planned steam move quite a lot. More over, it will cut the synergies between WU and WO development. Many nice improvements on WO are owed to ideas developped and tested on WU servers.

 

I think WU people should and might accept a reduced frequency of updates, maybe even giving out some data to modders so that they may implement changes on their own prior to those updates (this is done e.g. when forks in open source are cooperating). But just leaving WU out in the cold would be a bad move and has been a wrong decision.

I am not sure, but I think they drop the support because it is a lot of effort to maintain vs how much revenue it yields.

 

The Team is very small and has to focus its efforts to keep the game itself alive, you could argue "they should have known this before!",

but if people always go into such scenarios with the worst fears then nothing will happen.

But I think if WO sunsets, then WU will just die alongside with it cause then no one remains to maintain it either.

I see it as a "either we just shut it all down or we try to keep some part of it alive" attempt and for that the WU part is sacrificed.

 

Is it pretty? No, but they simply lack the ressources to do everything they want I think.

Losing devs on a already small Team doesn't help either.

 

Sindusk was a great addition, very sad that it ended up as it did and I am not even into PvP, but he contributed a lot from what we could see.

Budda is another huge contributor and was paid too, while his position has been well filled with Samool,

the manpower is still minus one, at least I did not see someone new being brought onto the Team.

Then ofc loved ones that departed...

 

Some people you can't just replace and hope it works and Wurm as is I think would require very dedicated devs, not just someone that can write Java - paying those people with the small funds that are left is another story.

When you hire someone you have responsibilities and when the future is as uncertain as it is now.... it just makes the most sense that what we see happening is happening.

 

Scratch together the remaining ressources, try a reboot of sorts and pray.

I just fear the fixes, QoL changes and new UI wont be enough to cut it - if a ton of people join the game on Steam I see nothing that would keep them playing for more than a month or two. :(

 

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1 hour ago, Ekcin said:

I fully agree to wipeout. The decision to drop WU support is likely to stoke resentment and anger in WU communities, and could harm WO and the planned steam move quite a lot. More over, it will cut the synergies between WU and WO development. Many nice improvements on WO are owed to ideas developped and tested on WU servers.

 

I think WU people should and might accept a reduced frequency of updates, maybe even giving out some data to modders so that they may implement changes on their own prior to those updates (this is done e.g. when forks in open source are cooperating). But just leaving WU out in the cold would be a bad move and has been a wrong decision.

I know I've been very bad at publishing mods, but really, I don't have the time to extract parts of the code, package into smaller mods and randomly distribute and continuously update just in case anyone would find it of interest. I'd happily share code by request however. There's absolutely no intent on my part to keep the code secret or hidden, unless there are security issues involved. I published my Mystic Highlands code a year ago (and got a lot of ###### for it), and no particular response or interest, so therefore I only put time on publishing code by request.

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Dropping support for WU wouldnt be that bad if modding the damn thing was easier and more accessible and if you actually bothered to  follow up on your promise of a modding API. Right now you need several Java and programming degrees and even then its like pulling teeth. 

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18 minutes ago, nitram20 said:

Dropping support for WU wouldnt be that bad if modding the damn thing was easier and more accessible and if you actually bothered to  follow up on your promise of a modding API. Right now you need several Java and programming degrees and even then its like pulling teeth. 

 

I haven't had that academical degree when I started, I have one now in Software & Information Engineering though . You don't need an academical degree to mod WU but you need to know what you are doing and Wurm Unlimited helped me a lot on the way to my degree, I learnt a lot for sure.

I don't think that the modding API would be that simple, you would still need to know what you are doing even with the API. Still it is a broken promise. I recommend looking deeper into the modloader, it makes a lot things simpler and it has an API feeling nowadays.

Edited by Sklo:D

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I'm not entirely sure dropping support is a totally bad thing actually, keeping mods up to date with new versions of WU has been a continuous issue, with a couple of weeks of work every update, with testing etc. It's all a matter of what will happen. If support is dropped and WU is not removed or anything, fixing bugs and developing a mods API could be done by the modders themselves. With a locked version of WU we could place that code in a git-repo and continue work as a side branch, but, it's a matter of where CC would stand on that. It would technically make WU an open source project, though not from a legal point of view, so it would have to be clarified.

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I don't have a degree in Java, I've just been working with Java professionally since 1997 😜

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2 minutes ago, Tenniel said:

I'm not entirely sure dropping support is a totally bad thing actually, keeping mods up to date with new versions of WU has been a continuous issue, with a couple of weeks of work every update, with testing etc. It's all a matter of what will happen. If support is dropped and WU is not removed or anything, fixing bugs and developing a mods API could be done by the modders themselves. With a locked version of WU we could place that code in a git-repo and continue work as a side branch, but, it's a matter of where CC would stand on that. It would technically make WU an open source project, though not from a legal point of view, so it would have to be clarified.

 

It is a horrible sign to the community, if Steam WO fails they will just do the same and focus on the next thing.

Plus what is the point in selling a game and stopping graphical updates, the server updates are not the problem many things implemented server side have already been in WU for years. Even when graphical updates are usually making performance worse it is a horrible idea to keep them away from new customers.

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1 minute ago, Tenniel said:

I don't have a degree in Java, I've just been working with Java professionally since 1997 😜

 

I was 3 years old in 1997, I guess I have an excuse there.

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The problem that we've had with new graphical content has been that the client mod launcher would have to be enforced, and a lot of players have a difficulty installing it. Many players don't know how to handle a file browser, but they love playing Wurm. They don't mind learning Wurm, but installing the mod launcher and mods, editing properties files, copying files to the right folder etc. is a big difficulty for them. For me it's an issue I can't relate to, and perhaps many of you too, but I do understand that it is a difficulty, and it's causing a big problem because it limits servers to only have server side mods and content. I'm currently working, as I've mentioned before, on an updated version of Ago's client mod launcher, which will handle installing mods, and which will permit different mods profiles. It should have a built in functionality for loading packages from the server. It will have to be as easy to install, as installing Wurm, otherwise it won't work. That way servers can provide new content, because all players can be expected to have the client mod launcher installed.

 

I'm also planning on expanding the server to build a map generator into the server. That way generating maps will be as easy as starting the server. The map generator would need an API which permits extending with mods, for custom map generation. But first things first.

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2 minutes ago, Tenniel said:

The problem that we've had with new graphical content has been that the client mod launcher would have to be enforced, and a lot of players have a difficulty installing it. Many players don't know how to handle a file browser, but they love playing Wurm. They don't mind learning Wurm, but installing the mod launcher and mods, editing properties files, copying files to the right folder etc. is a big difficulty for them. For me it's an issue I can't relate to, and perhaps many of you too, but I do understand that it is a difficulty, and it's causing a big problem because it limits servers to only have server side mods and content. I'm currently working, as I've mentioned before, on an updated version of Ago's client mod launcher, which will handle installing mods, and which will permit different mods profiles. It should have a built in functionality for loading packages from the server. It will have to be as easy to install, as installing Wurm, otherwise it won't work. That way servers can provide new content, because all players can be expected to have the client mod launcher installed.

 

I'm also planning on expanding the server to build a map generator into the server. That way generating maps will be as easy as starting the server. The map generator would need an API which permits extending with mods, for custom map generation. But first things first.

A simple way would be first off a simple installer(pick your poison of installers out there) 1 which auto detects wurm unlimited if possible would be even better then also maybe have a downloader where people can select the mods they want or heck mod packs(just a simple group of "here are all the links") and after ticking the boxes click download and it unpacks it all for you and applies recommended settings if such things where added and there you go easy as pie and @PandyLynnproof and if something is pandy proof its any user proof

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29 minutes ago, wipeout said:

A simple way would be first off a simple installer(pick your poison of installers out there) 1 which auto detects wurm unlimited if possible would be even better then also maybe have a downloader where people can select the mods they want or heck mod packs(just a simple group of "here are all the links") and after ticking the boxes click download and it unpacks it all for you and applies recommended settings if such things where added and there you go easy as pie and @PandyLynnproof and if something is pandy proof its any user proof

There are installers for different platforms, Windows has its set of installers, Linux another model, and Mac a third, which complicates things. I've been looking into publishing as a Steam package, but I think it would need the blessing of CC to work. I'm not looking for a simple way, that's what we have already, it has to work as easy as pressing a button.

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4 minutes ago, Tenniel said:

There are installers for different platforms, Windows has its set of installers, Linux another model, and Mac a third, which complicates things. I've been looking into publishing as a Steam package, but I think it would need the blessing of CC to work. I'm not looking for a simple way, that's what we have already, it has to work as easy as pressing a button.

Might i point you to http://izpack.org/ as a cross platform installer? It might be easier then going the steam route

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1 minute ago, wipeout said:

Might i point you to http://izpack.org/ as a cross platform installer? It might be easier then going the steam route

That's a good idea, thanks, I'll look into it :)

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On 11/4/2019 at 7:14 PM, Zibens said:

Wurm Unlimited is MUCH greater than Wurm Online. Passionate server owners developing their plugins, implementing new stuff into the game, for the fun of it.

They are doing it not for the profit, but for the sake of content. There is an actual development involved in the servers. Some i've found way more fun than WO.

 

There are actually many server owners in WU who took the money and ran, revenant for example.

Edited by Jeston

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3 hours ago, Jeston said:

 

There are actually many server owners in WU who took the money and ran, revenant for example.

 

If CodeClub is serious about abandoning updates to WU, the same will apply to them =P 

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My hope is they do something like the following:

 

change skill gain, make it more like WU, i do not mean faster, just change it that it pays to use the highest QL tools at all time. the thing with the skiller crappy tools has always bothered me.

-----------

Make it Free to play but also offer a subscription option. 

free to play can do anything they want but is limited to 1 character.

 

subscription comes with 1 additional character and the ability to purchase additional character upgrades (one time purchase, but not playable if subscription ends) 

subscription gives a flat 5 % skill gain increase and some vanity options maybe like "no passive decay on items in your inventory" or something thats usefull but not game breaking.

---------

NO RMT! NO ACCOUNT SALES!

------------

make a decent shop, give it its own currency ( shop coins) and give people with a subscription a few coins a month that are only useable in the shop and can not be traded.

and sell shopcoins for RL money.

in the shop:

sell skillgain potions (2 hours or 100% )

lots of skins for characters and walls.

maybe things like 1 time gender chance, 1 time character remodelling etc

vanity items like a skin for a fountain. 

do yearly new themes in the shop. like a medieval theme for year where most new skins have that theme to it

 

-----------------

 

servers: 

 

make servers special, give them a theme of some sorts.

have a server with harder terrain, more brutal animals and as a reward for that better ore vein quality or something.  maybe let some servers have unique animals with unique hides that make unique and new armors, not good perse or way better, just different looking and other tools and skill requirements. spidersilk and willow bark armor.. i dont really care about the names just give more variety,

 

have one that has almost no red animals but way more blue ones, maybe prebuild the highways between the starter towns and make it feel more like a kingdom that is safe, some guard towers etc.

build some monuments with a purpose that cannot be claimed or terraformed around . for example a huge mountain peak that is named and gives an achievement if climbed.

a pvp server and jackal ish server though without the skill reset. just limits all skills to 50. 

 

----------

trade:

 

please fix trade and just make a server wide auction system where if i have the requirement building or deed upgrade or a central DEV build deed with an auction house but lets take trade to the games of NOW and not need forums, or emails. 

---------

 

EVENTS! please make more events.

 

 

oooh and on the faith and sorcery and meditation, you are starting a new game, so you want to think about doing some real changes now, since no one can complain about losing hard work yet.

maybe just combine all these things into one new system without the channeling skill but with skills for spells and wisdom, books or tomes, or something needed to learn the spells. 

i dont know but i feel like everything was added on top of each other and not always with to much thought on the long term consequences. you can change this now.

 

 

 

thats its . 

###### dudes i just a wurm 2.0 please take my money and go make it!

 

 

 

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On 11/5/2019 at 5:25 AM, Sklo:D said:

 

I was 3 years old in 1997, I guess I have an excuse there.

Oh good lord, I feel so old now.....

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There are ways to make WO more fun, like the treasure maps on most WU servers that spawn unique creatures once found and then there is server events that happen once or twice a month with teleports from a token or gateway.

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