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Rolf

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I like that you still have passion to see the game through Rolf!!  That gives me a lift.  I love this game should no further change happen but appreciate the ever expanding and improving of game features.  

 

some things to think about:

 

If there was no WU on steam this plan would seem less risky speculative.  With WU already there and reaching saturation point of interest in new purchased, coupled with the modern gamer wanting instant gratification ie faster skill gain, and achievments...why would someone chose WO over WU when WO has a slower skill gain and restrictions and less game feature mods than WU

 

In Sharing the sentiment that Smejack posted on, it looks like the same impact/effect would take place where if going the steam route Steam WO would be the new fun spot, to the expense of WO as we know it now.  They aren't mutually exclusive in the manner it is suggested they are.  The outcome i fear would be a speculative population and  sustainability of Steam WO, and WO as it exists traditionally would atrophy not only faster , but also to it's demise regardless of your mointoring to decide when and if mergers are appropriate.   I think we learned a good deal from that kind of experiment when making P/R seperate then merging.

Edited by Retrograde
Enough with the crayons, this isn't myspace!
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17 minutes ago, FranktheTank said:

To those asking for a pvp server in support of the pvp community. I am about to deliver a hot take here:

 

There is no pvp community. Don't waste your time. Freedom is the thing people play on the most and enjoy the most.

maybe not right now but the new players who join might wanna have the option of pvp.

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6 minutes ago, Haseroths said:

maybe not right now but the new players who join might wanna have the option of pvp.

doubt about it,  but not much difference of launchin one server or 2 (one pve and one pvp), also there is WU on steam doing the same...

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3 minutes ago, tamat said:

doubt about it,  but not much difference of launchin one server or 2 (one pve and one pvp), also there is WU on steam doing the same...

If the game is even 10% as popular as WU was. we will need multiple servers anyway.


WE WILL GET OUR PVP SERVER BOYS

Edited by Olloch
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3 hours ago, Retrograde said:

By slowed down skillgain rolf means post 20.

 

I.e. You can still gain skill without prem but if you buy prem it's faster

 

There should still be a limit to effective skills if f2p. Eve Online does it, and I can launch that through Steam.

What keeps me from stopping premium once I reach acceptable levels in some skills?

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I have a question about the "merge or don't merge" thing.  How exactly would a merge work?  Maybe the answer is here somewhere and it just hasn't jumped out at me, (and people are talking about a merge as though they know the answer), so maybe I'm just having a Senior Moment this morning or not enough coffee, or both.  lol.

 

Would a merge mean Steam-to-WO  or  WO-to-Steam?  What I mean is, if it's Steam-to-WO, would those who have been logging in via Steam on the Steam server then be converted to logging in via the current WO client and bypassing Steam after that?   Or if it's WO-to-Steam, would a merge mean that logging onto existing WO servers would then be via Steam?

 

 

 

Edited by Amadee

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Just now, Amadee said:

I have a question about the "merge or don't merge" thing.  How exactly would a merge work?

 

I'd imagine it will be the simplest option, this was onde before with Pristine+Release and Xanadu.

 

Basically separate cluster but when it's time, open the borders and let us mingle?

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If you want wurm to survive whether its ogwo or steam wo, it's long past time to update the premium model from pretty much all or nothing.  Adopt a system like Runescape has.  In runescape f2p, you can max out a skill, but you can't use bonus xp (which is like our sleep bonus just used differently), a few skills are locked at 5, areas and certain gear/high end gear are locked, better methods of grinding skills are locked, etc. 

 

So for adapting that to wurm with some changes to fit better, that would be something like as f2p:

You can use sleep bonus, but it will only affect a skill if it us under 20.  Decide if this is enough to encourage premium or if post 20 needs a higher difficulty to gain skill.

Most skills can be grinded to 100 as per usual, but some could be locked to 20 to encourage premium.  For example, weaponsmithing, fine carpentry, all thievery and war machines, stuff like that.

You can ride a large cart, but not a wagon.  Yes that's a downgrade from current if you already had the mind logic, but its a small trade off for quite the f2p change.

You can ride a cow and a horse, but nothing after that.

You can't be a priest as f2p, so it would work as it does now without premium, however you need to close the loophole of f2p priest allowing non-priest actions or just disable skill gain from doing a prohibited action to prevent the priest AND crafter loophole that existed with dual faith priests with chaos libs.

You can't create or improve high end gear; Along the lines of moon metal and dragon armor.

And probably way more to tweak that I don't care to think about and write because I'm not the ones being paid to do this.

 

Aside from that I feel like more servers in different clusters/places will continue to split the dwindling community more and if steam wo takes off that leaves ogwo to wither and die like epic as mentioned before.  Good luck though.

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10 minutes ago, Locath said:

 

I'd imagine it will be the simplest option, this was onde before with Pristine+Release and Xanadu.

 

Basically separate cluster but when it's time, open the borders and let us mingle?

 

But those were all on the same "system" so to speak.  They were still logging in via the same client.  This, they're talking about merging a Steam log-on server with servers that don't go through Steam or the other way around.

Edited by Amadee

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Also, I'm with a few others who have voiced concerns about how WO would be competing with WU.  I love Wurm and played WO for many years, so I'm sorry to say I actually prefer WU over WO these days and not because of the money. The QoL is better, imo, with more of the little conveniences that are always rejected for WO, (often vehemently by old-school forum goers), and some of the WU servers actually have decent population numbers with great communities. Sorry, but logging into WO these days, I'm so annoyed after a short time that I have to log back out.  I am really hoping that there isn't going to be some kind of "planned obsolescence" going on for WU, the precursor of which is the "planned superiority" of WO we're now seeing evidence of.

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I'm ALL FOR THIS.

Wurm (and nearly every game like it) is all about progression. The most fun is to be had while you're making things happen, not after they've happened. Some people like designs, some people like gearing up, some people like having trophy/show-off items or the rarest of the rare... But something I think everyone has in common: Fun decreases in some way when the question "What next?" comes up and you don't have a suitable answer.

I've loved Wurm (both Online and Unlimited) for years, but what kept me from truly enjoying it was how far behind I was compared to everyone else. Of course, every time I'd play Online, there would be countless players willing to just give me free, awesome, game-breaking items like rare weapons and armor. But I would always say "no thanks" - that would make me skip a LOT of progression.

 

Add some microtransactional mini companion pets or something. However, speaking for both myself and a lot of gamers I know, I probably would be way less interested if it didn't involve a new fresh-start server. I would be personally willing to help in-game if it happened. But even if a fresh server isn't ultimately a part of it, it can't be a BAD thing to expose Wurm to an entire community of gamers.

 

As for Wurm Unlimited... the sooner a true API (not the codeloading nonsense that's currently necessary due to a lack of one) is available, the sooner that platform can truly take off. I have countless ideas for mods that are just too much of a hassle to write, let alone maintain with updates, when you have to jump through code-substitution hoops. There are lots of addons available for WU that enrich the game in many ways, even ones that I prefer over the vanilla WO experience, but in the end the way they have to be done is a pain in the ass. The communities that form on them are wonderful though, but I believe they would be no more affected by Wurm Online than they currently are.

Edited by Ignacius
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I'm honestly happy to see anything new going forward to bring in new players. So long as those of us that have been around a while don't lose our stuff we've worked so hard for. I think this could really be a good idea with a lot of potential and tbh it's about time too.

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If I've got this right, and existing servers won't be affected, then this is just a great idea. More players equals more revenue equals more development. It's 100% win-win :)

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3 hours ago, Kabill said:

If you do end up removing the f2p hardcap, I'd suggest keeping priests to premium only. Have the softcap start at 50.

 

I'd also strongly recommend launching with a pvp server. I have a feeling most players coming from steam are going to want a less restrictive environment to play in. Assuming the work is still being done for epic that was aiming to be released around December, it would be wise to just release that as a new epic cluster on steam. 

 

 

Why not pvp + pve cluster of 2 servers instead?

There will be {I want your stuff} and {I give no.. about taking other's stuff} people.. putting either in the opposite fish-tank is only going to put them towards WU or off the game entirely.

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Yeah, with the move to AWS, deploying an additional server is way less complicated than when you deal with rented hardware. Giving both options will be a good way to test the waters and see if the PvP theory holds any water. I assume it doesn't, but no skin off our noses to try it out.

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Eh this is stupid... if you must do something do not make new servers and so...  Just put wurm online as is it on steam and says its FREE MMO  for 30days full unlock after that skill limit to 20 and that is...  All you can lost is 30 days of free premium and no exstra costs on your site... ppl are stupid they grab everything that says FREE MMO     and they got an al suprise after 30 days... heh you have to pay or you loose your home and horsie  !

Edited by Sila
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2 minutes ago, Sila said:

Eh this is stupid... if you must do something do not make new servers and so...  Just put wurm online as is it on steam and says its FREE MMO  for 30days full unlock after that skill limit to 20 and that is...  All you can lost is 30 days of free premium and no exstra costs on your site... ppl are stupid they grab everything that says FREE MMO     and they got an al suprise after 30 days... heh you have to pay or you loose your home and horsie  !

 

I hope you don't run a business....

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I do and everyone take what is "free" and says sweet thank you

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26 minutes ago, Sila said:

Eh this is stupid... if you must do something do not make new servers and so...  Just put wurm online as is it on steam and says its FREE MMO  for 30days full unlock after that skill limit to 20 and that is...  All you can lost is 30 days of free premium and no exstra costs on your site... ppl are stupid they grab everything that says FREE MMO     and they got an al suprise after 30 days... heh you have to pay or you loose your home and horsie  !

and there is how WO will get even worse fame

Edited by tamat
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41 minutes ago, Amadee said:

But those were all on the same "system" so to speak.  They were still logging in via the same client.  This, they're talking about merging a Steam log-on server with servers that don't go through Steam or the other way around.

 

I'm just guessing here but Rolf saying:

Quote

It would mean opening a new server with the same code as before and releasing the game client for free on Steam.

 

In my head this means another cluster and just a new client which connects to it by default but if the backend is the same (compatible?), more islands can be added at will, in this case; existing WO servers. 

I don't know if there are any technical show-stoppers to do this but it seems reasonable that WO, as it stands, could be released on Steam without much change to the code so i'm hoping that SteamWO servers will be available for both, Steam and WO clients (because why not? many games have that option) and effectively run on the same backend.

Only thing that would require coding, is a hard split between what can be accessed from the Steam client but why limit Steam customers to play only on the new cluster? Might be reasonable to give them an option to join the established clusters, including Epic, right off the bat. If someone is inclined to compete with others on Epic, why not let them?

Just a dropdown list with options "Original" and "Steam Release - NEW" could suffice.

This is all assuming that there will be no difference in versions of the server code or the difference will be accounted for in the client. 

 

This would give the Steam customers an option to play on a current premium ruleset or whatever the Steam payment system will be with very little difference in how everything works.

 

It will allow to account for the many player types we have here:

 

PvP - could have PvP servers on the new cluster as well but users could chose to join established kingdoms on the existing Epic or Chaos if they want to, without the need to re-download the client outside of Steam (Steam Loyalists)

I want to try to be on top of rankings - players who want to start with new server and who switch to each new iteration, even at the cost of abandoning their existing toons.

I want to build and have a fat wallet but don't want to make all the materials - well, there's an option to connect to Freedom using the Steam client (premium payment via Steam in some shape or at token). Go for it and buy your mats from established players who keep undercutting each-other's prices.

I want to join a village - again, for a while, existing servers will be a better option because of high level players who host those villages and who will provide you with horses, tools, knowledge and so on (i'm looking at you, Brocules).

I want to play solo - both options work for that i guess.

 

With the SteamWO servers maturing, both clusters will become equally good choice and this is the point where opening the borders can happen. This is when new servers can be added with closed borders as well for the next generation of players to have their chance at becoming the strongest/smartest/most often dying (I'm looking at you, Archaed) or whatever people like about games.

 

@Others

This is just a plan or a dream at this stage according to Rolf but there is some negativity about it right away. 

If you don't like it, don't buy it? For us, nothing changes and can only increase the population.

 

 

 

There is only one possible scenario where it could turn out bad for Wurm. 

Many Steam people don't care about those games, some make money off of "hacks" for them. They care very little if they get banned. They will release paid hacks/bots and never log back in anyway. This happens to games with dedicated, massive, security teams, it will eventually happen here, even more so when people smell the real money value of pretty much anything in game. 

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I hope it works , i think for a long time  many new players to wurm died off because they went straight to Xanadu the biggest bestest map out there! then got very remote died like we all did when we first started and never found their deed or corpse again, i think a new player base need a little caring for, we all got it many years ago but that's because it was not a low population or a map the size of Xana ,i think if you can help new players just get over a few hurdles then they will not stumble, fall and quit. The proposed new server from steam seems like it  might keep new players interested if done right.

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Problem is not to let new people try the game for free for 1 or 10 months, issue will come from old ones.. running tens of accounts... preparing to ruin the game later with priest batteries, bulk hoarded, whatever else multi-client usual ###### that comes with the multi-acct playstyle. Given.. it wont really affect the game much.. but it will stress the servers a bit just to give a coin-chaser an edge over the others...

 

Like the 3-day free premium.. we saw from 250 people at a unique slaying.. ~70/+ were with similar names.. just there to grab an extra mining potion. Talking about single person running 20-30+ accounts just to get a bit more...

If none of that greed bothers anybody, nothing stops any kind of pr candy to be thrown at new players, being skills, gear, buffs, etc

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6 minutes ago, Locath said:

I don't know if there are any technical show-stoppers to do this but it seems reasonable that WO, as it stands, could be released on Steam without much change to the code so i'm hoping that SteamWO servers will be available for both, Steam and WO clients (because why not? many games have that option) and effectively run on the same backend.

 

Actually I think it wouldn't be a bad thing to have all current WO servers available through Steam.  There was a time when I would have been very much against this, but my opinions have evolved over the years and having overcome my initial aversion to Steam, and been playing WU now for a couple years, I'm not seeing much of a downside to that.  Well, except for those you mentioned who could potentially be losing out on RL cash income through paypal.

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Just gonna drop this here to remind you all of the interest anything Wurm has on steam. Best of luck though.

 tvynWw3.png

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