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Jackal: The Next Frontier

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1 hour ago, Eyesgood said:

I remember when Jenn-Kellon Home was shut down when Independence was opened.  If you are going to open (yet) another map, please consider shutting down several maps.  It won't be nearly as bad you think.  The population is woefully spread out too thin.

 

No, just allow cross server alliances instead :) 

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Why all the negativity? To me this seems like what challenge was supposed to be(minus the pvp aspect) A new place 6 month wipe no item/skill transfer harsher survival with more monsters with better attacks and combat ai(from what i gather from certain mobs on other places)

To me this seems like a fun "Hey guys we are taking the fight to them" kinda thing where we are the invaders who come to ruin the monsters day and probably die trying to kill them it will be fun for a few wipes and then they gotta add in content(which im sure they do) and it will be nice themed server and whats so bad about that?

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wasnt it sort of like this epic  was going to work once? faster skillgain and reset after a time ?

 

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The important questions are:

 

1. Will we see Jackal circling the sky while standing on Jackal? Or will we see the Wurm continents in the sky instead?

2. Can the Jackal graphic be updated to reflect what we find there? If it's meant to be habitable, spots of green and blue to mimic flora and water would add to the immersion. Obviously, not exact map of it but something to make the moon look less like a moon and more like the place where we'll end up after teleporting there. Unless it's 100% rock surface of course, then current graphic of the moon is perfect.

 

Complaints:

I'll think of something, give me a chance.

 

I doubt it will thin out the population by a whole lot. Same thing was meant to happen with he new Evlevation map which so many people were fighting for and yes, for the first 3-5 days it was in excess of 100 players online on Epic but few weeks down the road Epic is the lowest populated server a lot of the time again. This includes Chaos and Exodus. Granted, depends on the time of day but for a large part of it, i see more players on Chaos than between the 4 Epic servers. Relax and keep on Wurming.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Odinkar said:

Personally if we were to shut down some servers I would say Epic and Xanadu.

 

Wow, what a suggestion! let me give you a better one - what about shuttng down freedom cluster, so all carebears would transfer and revive epic and if they dont adapt to epic that well, they can take a vacation onto jackal for 6 months.  ?

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9 hours ago, Odinkar said:

Xanadu, while it may be the most populated server it has ridiculous travel times and lag due to its massive size. People living on Xanadu, especially central Xanadu, are very disconnected from the rest of the game. Shutting down Xanadu would cause a mass Exodus onto smaller servers which would make them feel far more populated.

 

So you propose shutting down the most populated server due to travel times and it's size? When MMOs shut down a server they generally shut down those that have the smallest population, so that the last amount of people are impacted. Especially in games like Wurm, as shutting down a server also means that people lose a lot of the hard work they put into their deeds. The risk of such people leaving permanently isn't negligible, and your expected mass exodus can very well become a mess exodus to other games instead of to other servers. Thus from a business standpoint closing Xanadu is a really bad choice.

 

Shutting down any server is pretty much a bad choice at this point due to the nature of the game. Even if you shut down the least populated one, people will become more afraid that their server might eventually be next, this will prevent plenty of players from further investing into the game (fear is bad for investment, stability is great). Those players will then check out of the game, and thus shutting down a server can very well cause a population drop on all other servers as well.

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2 hours ago, Locath said:

I doubt it will thin out the population by a whole lot. Same thing was meant to happen with he new Evlevation map which so many people were fighting for and yes, for the first 3-5 days it was in excess of 100 players online on Epic but few weeks down the road Epic is the lowest populated server a lot of the time again. This includes Chaos and Exodus. Granted, depends on the time of day but for a large part of it, i see more players on Chaos than between the 4 Epic servers. Relax and keep on Wurming.

 

So based on the assumption that Frontier will fail miserably, like Epic did and does continously, we shouldn't worry about thinning out the population?

That means if Frontier is a success, we will just lose more players than we already are. Great!

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I find it quite tempting to join in on the speculation on what the details of Frontier will be, both imagining best-case, worst-case, and any scenarios in between.

Personally I doubt closing servers over it will do any good (especially avoiding the whole "anything but my server" discussion), nor do I think it'll thin the population too much even if it's a success, depending on how the travel back and forth will be;  a 6-monthly map reset and potential downtime between resets may make it more of a holidays server where people can meet (and work together as mentioned in the OP) from different servers, while keeping their servers as main base of operations.

And just like that some speculation was shared anyway.

 

For now I'll stick with some hype for the potential it may have, and eagerly await more detailed information that will hopefully arrive soon!

 

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I am looking for a reason to start playing again, and this wasn't it.  :(  

It could possibly be enjoyable if the survival depended on you banding together.  So the PVE would have to be scaling and force people into a sanctuary with other players.

 

Then there is the 6 month reset...  As soon as this hits, I fear you will lose half the population and people will lose interest just as they did with Rolf last reset project...  which I can't even remember the name of...

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Let us see more of the details. If the server is a place for occasional fun and not requiring full playtime it may even thicken a bit the regularly playing base. We'll see. 

A year ago I would have been really sceptic about an idea like this which may be a bit non-sandboxy but today I say give it a shot and hope for the best.

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whats the point, "yay clicking on npcs so fun" lol. This is basically the carebear version of epic.

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Personally while I'd love to have a hunting server with more PvE challenge, I also want it to be accessible, meaning with skills and items transfering so I can go over there with some friends to have some fun when we want to. With neither of those transfering we'd first have to grind up skills and aquire items. Now that's not that bad, if we only had to do it once, but the 6 month reset would ruin even that.

 

I'll keep following the news on this as the general idea of a more challenging PvE server sounds really interesting to me, but so far the details sound like an unappealing executing, I hope that will change.

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8 hours ago, Skatyna said:

 

Wow, what a suggestion! let me give you a better one - what about shuttng down freedom cluster, so all carebears would transfer and revive epic and if they dont adapt to epic that well, they can take a vacation onto jackal for 6 months.  ?


Achievement Unlocked "You Must be Hard" - Use the word Carebear on the forums

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29 minutes ago, Odinkar said:

Achievement Unlocked "You Must be Hard" - Use the word Carebear on the forums

So what, I am an Idontcarebear when it comes to names kids are calling me. Let them have their fun.

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Although there is not enough info right now to form a solid opinion on this yet, I think it looks like a great concept at first glance. I particularly like the idea of the server resetting on a schedule; I think this will make it easier for new players to get into this new game mode(i guess you could call it that?). However, as others have said, there is the issue with player population and sparseness. Unless there is a significant spike in population, the current small population will become spread even more thin, and/or the new server will be underpopulated. There only ways to counter this that I can think of at the moment. One is getting a spike in player population, as said above. This could be achieved with some ads, and If I am correct, Retro said that that is a thing that is already in place. If the former fails, I think that the right thing to do would be to shut down a Freedom Server. I am not the right person to ask which server it should be, but it can't really be Xanadu, because there are more players that will be upset by this than other servers, and Jack A. Lormere Is from there.
Jack A. Lormere.
I smell a story brewing...
[Just as a side note I thought of at the end I think that there must be some form of PvP for this to survive.]

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I think this hits the right marks but has some serious design flaws which will show themselves later down the line. From my perspective, it looks like it's trying to hit the following marks:

  • Create a new space where players can find uncharted lands.
  • Ensure that there's no gap between highly skilled accounts and new accounts.
  • Provide a challenge to players who have experienced the tougher content of the game so far.

The way this is pitched hits all of those marks. By themselves, each one is positive. Together, though, they conflict heavily.

 

Creating A New Space

 

Creating a new environment for players to play in is great. Having it with separated skills is fine. Ensuring they can go back to their normal gameplay on the "main" servers easily is fantastic. However, this design is inhibited by the following requirement:

Quote

items known as Lodestones will appear at the site of the Rift and become craftable by players. These Lodestones will allow you to transport your soul to Jackal to take the fight back to them. 

 

This forces a prerequisite on anyone who wants to participate in the new environment. Not only do they need to be strong enough to participate in the rift (or leech off one, which some players are not keen on doing), but rifts themselves are volatile and only occur at specific time periods. They can also be difficult to travel to, whether you're a new or old player, because transport to a rift can be a challenge. Furthermore, while there's nothing mentioning it, I'm skeptical about "competition" over obtaining the lodestones. Will everyone get one, or will there be a limited amount that players who participated at the rift will be fighting over? Will these lodestones be consumed on use? Will they be so common that everyone will have one? If so, why even have this as a requirement?

 

Adding the requirement to enter the new space to a rift needs more discussion. This arbitrarily limits player interaction to a certain subset of people who fulfill a prerequisite instead of allowing those who actually want to participate to do so freely.

 

The Gap Between Accounts vs New & Challenging Content

 

There are players who have played for a long time. Years and years, and they have accounts that show that dedication. Some people view them negatively, others view it as a mark of pride and envy. In the end, these accounts exist and many hours were spent making them into what they are. When you have one of these accounts, all the challenges in the game as they exist are trivial. Killing a troll is no problem. You eat champions for breakfast and craft 90 quality items of whatever you want.

 

The next step is to pose some new challenge to this account. It's coming in this next update; Frontier... but there's a catch. You can't use the skills and items you obtained. Not only is this going to be off-putting to players who have put serious amounts of time into their accounts, but I'm also confused why new creatures are only being displayed for unskilled characters and reset every 6 months. Players with high skills generally enjoy taking on something new and challenging, seeing how it matches up against the account they invested so much time into. Instead, the newest challenge is being added to a land that can only be accessed by accounts with no skills, and will never obtain the "super account" status.

 

In conclusion, it seems like the design was mixed between a hunting server and a new land that fresh players can explore without feeling gated by lack of skills. The problem is these two concepts don't mix very well. You either design the server as a fresh land for new players, or you design it to challenge your existing ones. You tried to design the server for everyone, and instead ended up with a server designed for no one.

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As much as I'm hyped, or want to be, @Sindusk's last remark hits it absolutely on the head. Perhaps there's a way to "acknowledge" an accounts "super status" on it's main world without compromising the landrush scenario entirely. Like giving 3x/5x/Nx skillgain until you reach your full potential from back on your main world? Shouldn't be too offputting for the new, casual players this may attract and perhaps even give them some incentive to not just participate in Jackal seasons.

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Considering that informations are yet to be revealed i will stay neutral on hype/hate thing :P

But have several questions:

Since skills are reseting every 6 months, which is ok, we might need server like that for not so niche players, what's the initiative for players to leave their normal lifes in lands of Wurm beside adventure? What can they bring back from these lands as don't think memories and stories are enough to continue going there beyond first time out of curiosity?

Since this seems like a server for people who are not that much into hardcore aspect of Wurm and this is potential for players that would maybe not play normaly why isn't this advertised, maybe we could attract players interested in this mode, and why as Sindusk said players who register doesnt have opportunity to join Jackal right away without going to normal servers, doing rift etc, which is offputting for such players..

And how inhabitable this world would be? Will players be able to place deeds, build houses, breed animals, harvest food? Will it be pvp enabled? We are still lacking in all these answers to form general opinion. Looks interesting for now, but it also looks it can go terribly wrong and that it is another bunch of dev time vasted for short spike in population if even there is going to happen one...

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I heavily agree with everything Sindusk said, but on my time on the test server, I noticed rift enemies hitting significantly less hard. @Sinduskwhich might help newer players compete in rifts.

Edited by Wiolo

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2 hours ago, Flubb said:

As much as I'm hyped, or want to be, @Sindusk's last remark hits it absolutely on the head. Perhaps there's a way to "acknowledge" an accounts "super status" on it's main world without compromising the landrush scenario entirely. Like giving 3x/5x/Nx skillgain until you reach your full potential from back on your main world? Shouldn't be too offputting for the new, casual players this may attract and perhaps even give them some incentive to not just participate in Jackal seasons.

 

Well, I was not so much convinced by all of Sindusk's arguments. All in all, we should consider all that as preliminary speculation based on incomplete informations.

 

Sindusk certainly rightly point out the possible risks when the access method of lodestones obtained at rifts results in limited access to Jackal, worst case not all rift participants, and not even good when restricted to those and available in limited numbers. Such an access bottleneck should at least be temporary if existing at all. It is encourageing that these lodestones are announced as craftables so that this concern is possibly unfounded.

 

As to the point of more experienced and well equipped players, I tend to contradict, also Flubb's idea. There should be no veteran bonuses. Sindusk rightly uses the term of an "account they invested so much time into". Mind that there are accounts, and there are players. There are veterans, and there are VINOs (Veterans in name only) who purchased a high level account.

 

The first category will be in advantage no matter whether all start at even skill level or not. Experience and the right feeling for what to expect, how to react, and how to address the unexpected, won in years of playing, always will give an edge. When at rifts, really experienced and competent players can be spot not primarily by enchanted scale armour, or at least not only by that. There is simply no reason to give them a further edge over beginners on the new server. On contrary, it will be a fresh challenge for them to prove themselves.

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The reason why the devs are sharing theses snippets is so they can get a good view on what the player base wants and expects. They're listening to what we are saying now and will carve it out to what the player base wants I'm sure.

Reserve your judgement, this is a very early stage project. And my hopes are still high.

Edited by Wiolo
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Rest assured, many of the questions raised have been already considered and addressed. This project has been underway some time with a lot of time spent ensuring it is engaging and worthwhile. These snippets are not the full story yet, stay tuned for more as well as the full patch notes on release this week.

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Just feels recycled. It just seems like the business model here is when things get stale, launch a new server. Now we have multiple vacant open servers. It's not really great for forcing any player to player interaction, and especially not great for PvP. This will get a small boost and hype the first two weeks, and like all other launches, player count will drop off again. It feels like we're just stuck in a loop with the same idea.

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27 minutes ago, Postes said:

and especially not great for PvP.

 

Because that 10% of the player base isn't neccessarily being catered to here. Ya'll seriously need to get over that.

What's been very stale and petty from the very beginning with was all the "muh pvp" moaning throughout nearly all of the Jack related threads.

 

And of course the player count will be higher at the beginning. By some it was outright said they'll take a look at it even though it's probably not for them. The curious onlookers will naturally inflate the beginning numbers a bit.

At least they're keeping an open mind about it, unlike nearly all of the PvPers in this discussion.

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