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Odinkar

The Four Elemental Warrior Types (Theorycrafting)

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Throwing this here instead of guides because the point of this thread is theorycrafting. In other words, I'm throwing out my theories about the game and you guys are all welcome to butt in and say "Odinkar you are wrong. That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works." And thus I can use that information to refine my idea.

So what are the four elemental warrior types? I'm identifying 4 key elements based on the spells added for jewelry in the priest updates, and then theorycrafting 4 character archetypes built around dealing damage with the said element.

Those elements are:

FIRE
FROST
ACID

VENOM

The Basics of An Elemental Warrior
 

The common unifying factor of the 4 builds I want to lay out is that each one is focused on doing damage of a specific elemental type, and using enchantments such as the Glacial spell to optimize damage output with their chosen element. For instance a Fire Warrior would wear 1-3 pieces of jewelry with the blaze spell and attempt to deal as much fire damage as possible to get maximum effect from that. For some of these that obviously fits well with certain priest types, though for each build I will include a general description and then a description of what is gained by using (IMO) the most synergistic priest type.

NOTE: All relevant warrior types include arrow types. This is an idealized list of abilities describing a warrior using every tool at their disposal to maximize damage via their chosen element. I realize that in very few cases will they actually be using a quiver full of enchanted arrows. Still worth mentioning they do have that capability in a hard fight with high stakes.

FIRE WARRIORS

Weapon: Any Flaming Aura Weapon 

Arrows: Flaming Aura Arrows
Additional Fire Damage Sources: Red Tome, White Tome, & Tome of Incineration

PROS - The fire warrior has the largest array of sorcery spells available to it as well as the option for arrows unlike the acid warrior. They are also one of the strongest potential elemental priests as I'll describe in that section. 
Fire is strong against studded.
 

CONS - Flaming Aura is straight inferior to an acid or frost imbue. While it does free up the ability to put a demise on your weapon you lose the ability to put Bloodthirst on your weapon, and much less of your overall weapon damage will be fire meaning less bonus from your jewelry. In addition Flaming Aura is much less common to find than frostbrand.
Fire is weak against chain.

Magranon Priest: Synergizes with the spells - Fireheart, Fire pillar, Inferno, & ???Smite???

With a good array of fire based spells, frantic charge, offensive CR buff and a 12% damage boost the Mag Priest fire warrior is a powerhouse of fire based damage.

CONCLUSION: Personally I would only go fire warrior as a Mag priest. If I had a suggestion to the devs about making the fire warrior better I would say add a fire imbue to weapons. Vynorans get enough love already. 

FROST WARRIORS


Weapon: Any Frost Imbued Weapon w/ bloodthirst or life transfer
Arrows: Frostbrand Arrows
Additional Sources of Frost Damage: Blue Tome(f)

PROS - Imbue, arrows, and a sorcery spell. Priest armed with a strong array of frost damage spells.
Frost is strong against chain and plate.
CONS - Sorcery spell not necessarily a big damage dealer (let me know what you think if you have it!) Priest not damage focused.
Frost is weak against studded.

Vynoran Priest: Synergizes with the spells -  Shard of Ice, Ice Pillar & Hypothermia

Vynoran priests have a good array of frost damage spells, and if you're using this build you're probably going to favor them a bit over tentacles and tornado. However while most priests get some kind of buff that can be used to enhance their offensive capabilities, Vynorans use excel which increases defensive capabilities. This is not to say an ice warrior Vyn priest is bad. Their excellent line of non-priest options carry over to make the priest a lot more viable as a heavy hitter, but where I feel like a Vyn priest Ice Warrior would really excel is with a shortsword and large shield, in defensive stance, taunting big mean mobs. Their enhanced damage in this case would be used to pump up their hits so that they get more health back from LT while main tanking rifts and the like.

CONCLUSION: Ice warriors are in an excellent place. I think they are the most viable build on this list and while by no means do I feel they are overpowered, the other warrior types seem a bit underpowered by comparison. 

ACID WARRIORS


Weapon: Any Acid Imbued Weapon w/bloodthirst or life transfer
Additional Sources of Acid Damage: Libram of Night

PROS - Acid Imbue allows full weapon damage to be converted to acid damage. Sorcery spell is very damage oriented. Singular acid spell has 4 priest options.
Acid is strong against studded.

CONS - No arrows. Just 1 Acid Spell.
Acid is weak(ish) against chain and plate.

Libila, Nathan, Tosiek, Gary: Synergizes with the spells - Rotting Gut

I'm not going to compare 4 priest types but I will point out Libila gets an offensive CR bonus, truehit, and hell strength. Nathan gets a 12% damage bonus lag Mag. Your damage options here are strong.

Since the only spell available is rotting gut I'm going to add it's a good spell with a low favor cast. You can use it a minimum of once per fight with natural favor regen. Sometimes more than once.

CONCLUSION: Acid Warriors are in a very strong place with 4 priest options, but they are very reliant on weapon damage over any other supplemental damage.  Then again, enchanted arrows and karma spells are expensive. If I could suggest one balance to make Acid Warriors a bit more balanced against Frost, I'd say maybe consider making a couple more spells do acid damage. 

POISON WARRIOR

I'm going to go full hands off on this one because poison is so uncommonly used and the descriptions are a bit lacking. Not sure if the venom affect converts weapon damage to venom or adds an additional wound. Apparently venom doesn't have the insta-death chance that regular poison wounds do. Does it stack with a lead weapon? Do lead weapons have a chance to insta-kill opponents? So much unknown. 

Edited by Odinkar

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you aware this really doesn't work on freedom?

 

@Sinduskcould shed some light on this probably.

 

like if mobs had elemental strengths and weaknesses it would be viable but monster demise will perform better OP.

 

also don't use lead LOL

Edited by Niki

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34 minutes ago, Niki said:

you aware this really doesn't work on freedom?

 

@Sinduskcould shed some light on this probably.

 

like if mobs had elemental strengths and weaknesses it would be viable but monster demise will perform better OP.

 

also don't use lead LOL


Well, while the fire warrior is working mainly off spell damage they're going to do either way, I'd agree it's a trash build for PVE. I'd highly disagree with Acid and Frost being trash for PVE. Elemental weaknesses don't matter, the fact an imbue translates your weapon damage into 100% elemental damage does:

"Animal Demise: ... +3% damage versus non-legendary "animal" creatures"

All other demises do the same damage boost to their respective enemy type. 

"The effectiveness of the enchantment is determined by both enchantment power and the quality level of the jewelry, each having equal importance. For example, a 50QL ring with a 25 power enchantment has the same effectiveness as a 25QL ring with a 50 power enchantment.

Depending on QL and enchantment power, offensive enchantments increase that type of damage between 2.5% and 5%, and defensive enchantments decrease incoming damage of that type between 2.5% to 7.5%.
 

Wearing multiple items with the same enchantment of this type will have diminishing returns. The total effectiveness of all items combined is multiplied by 2 / (1 + count), where "count" refers to the number of the same enchantment equipped. In other words, having two of the same enchantment equipped will be 2/3 (66.7%) total effectiveness, and three of the same type will have 1/2 (50%) effectiveness. For example, two 50QL rings with the same 50-power enchantment will have a total effectiveness of 66.7 (2/3 of 100), and adding a third with the same QL and enchantment power would have a effectiveness of 75 (1/2 of 150)."

 

It would take only a very weak glacial ring to increase damage by 3% to all enemies regardless of enemy type, with a cap of 11.25% damage because of the jewelry. 

Based on that imbues with jewelry would seem considerably stronger than a demise weakness or no weakness. 


 

Edited by Odinkar

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17 minutes ago, Odinkar said:


Well, while the fire warrior is working mainly off spell damage they're going to do either way, I'd agree it's a trash build for PVE. I'd highly disagree with Acid and Frost being trash for PVE. Elemental weaknesses don't matter, the fact an imbue translates your weapon damage into 100% elemental damage does:

"Animal Demise: ... +3% damage versus non-legendary "animal" creatures"

All other demises do the same damage boost to their respective damage type. 

"The effectiveness of the enchantment is determined by both enchantment power and the quality level of the jewelry, each having equal importance. For example, a 50QL ring with a 25 power enchantment has the same effectiveness as a 25QL ring with a 50 power enchantment.

Depending on QL and enchantment power, offensive enchantments increase that type of damage between 2.5% and 5%, and defensive enchantments decrease incoming damage of that type between 2.5% to 7.5%.
 

Wearing multiple items with the same enchantment of this type will have diminishing returns. The total effectiveness of all items combined is multiplied by 2 / (1 + count), where "count" refers to the number of the same enchantment equipped. In other words, having two of the same enchantment equipped will be 2/3 (66.7%) total effectiveness, and three of the same type will have 1/2 (50%) effectiveness. For example, two 50QL rings with the same 50-power enchantment will have a total effectiveness of 66.7 (2/3 of 100), and adding a third with the same QL and enchantment power would have a effectiveness of 75 (1/2 of 150)."

It would take only a very weak glacial ring to increase damage by 3% to all enemies regardless of type, with a cap of 11.25% damage because of the jewelry. 

Based on that imbues with jewelry would seem considerably stronger than a demise weakness or no weakness. 


 

Sure but i'm pretty sure this revolves around a person wearing leather if say you're using acid imbue against them wearing corrosion dmg jewelery.

 

Apparently I'm wrong.

 

Freedom really only needs to use frost protection/fire protection because of rifts. That's minor and rather pointless though, just move out or dispel the tile or even tangleweave the cast.

Edited by Niki

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No the enchants I'm talking about boost your outgoing damage but only to the element type the jewelry buffs. So if you are doing 100% frost damage, and have a ring that increases outgoing frost damage by 7.5% all weapon damage is 107.5%.

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3 minutes ago, Odinkar said:

No the enchants I'm talking about boost your outgoing damage but only to the element type the jewelry buffs. So if you are doing 100% frost damage, and have a ring that increases outgoing frost damage by 7.5% all weapon damage is 107.5%.

Apparently I was wrong, dispelling all my MD as we speak.

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Nice guide! I think you did a better job explaining the depth of the elemental system than I ever could. You really thought this through, did the math, and outlined your findings well in this post. Great job.

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It was a while ago when I checked the WU code, but jewelry only effects weapon damage if you have bloodthirst, it doesnt effect the weapon part of the damage if you have a frost Imbued with frostbrand for example

 

 

 

 

Edited by Threap
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So wait. Is it 100% of the damage if you have a frost imbued with bloodthirst or just the additional damage given by bloodthirst?

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5 minutes ago, Odinkar said:

So wait. Is it 100% of the damage if you have a frost imbued with bloodthirst or just the additional damage given by bloodthirst?

 

Honestly I could be remembering wrong, it was a year ago now maybe. But the meta is with acid or frost imbue with BT and 3x damage jewelry to give you max damage.

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Good to know. If you get the chance to test it could you let me know how the imbue affects a Life Transfer and Essence Drain weapon? I'd definitely like to strike that from my write-up if it won't enhance damage.

My theory was if you take the base damage, filter it through the jewelry, and then deal enhanced damage due to imbues that the increased outgoing damage would bring back additional healing as well.

Edited by Odinkar

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For Libila, how would Essence Drain's internal wounds factor in do you suppose?  The additional wounds are quite close to aosp wounds in terms of dmg amounts.  I have a 102 cast on a normal longsword, my priest uses it and it's healing power, while not as good naturally as LT, isn't half bad.  My 60fs priest can take down hell hounds on foot and end the fight quite near 100% health.

Edited by Nomadikhan

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From what experiments we've done, high glance weapons really benefit from venom (as it appears to eliminate glances).

 

The caveat is that you need a 100 cast, or the weapon loses total damage.

 

Overall, it's a viable enchant for fighting in pve against high glance opponents (crocs and scorps especially).

 

It might also be useful for rifts, provided there is a healer to offset being without LT early rift (late rift heal Res renders that moot).

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tested this pretty extensively the other day, acid imbue with corrosion jewelry seems to be the way to go as far as a freedom meta is concerned.

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Anybody know if bracelets work for these offence/defence type enchants?

And wait, warrior damage bonus is 12% now? I thought it was 15%, maybe they changed it when I wasn't looking.

Edited by Wiolo

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