Ekcin

Global spell drama solution proposal

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Posted (edited)

I don't need to elaborate the subject. Here the proposal:

 

Every priest wanting to participate in a global spell (or every eligible by faith/channeling level, dunno) could subscribe for participation, and a subscriber list in order of application would be created. Every time a global spell is cast, each one of them online until the max number of links must be invited for linking, otherwise no way to cast the global spell.

 

Order of admission would be in order of first subscriber first:

 

1. Priests with open journal goal and journal chapter unlocked (maybe faith/channeling constraints)

2. All the rest

 

No idea whether that is a way. As far as I see, snipers would have more troubles than now.

 

Edit: Maybe highest in the list logged in at a given time could be able to cast the spell altogether. That would discourage sniping even more.

Edited by Ekcin

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Posted (edited)

Forget the ordered list. Really. Just everyone with the goal not done.

 

If the journal goal is open and you're online, WHY would you be shut off?

 

Edit: interesting, you're posting this for devs to do. Well... people could do it too. I am not sure this part needs a code solution. Maybe, if possible, remove the ability to cast or be a link if you completed the goal and there are at least x online players with open goal?

Edited by Anarres

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removing the ability to cast a Rite if you have already done so potentially leads to a situation where there's no priest able to cast. Once this rush (ok, its a very slow and bottlenecked rush of existing priests already with the required faith and channeling, but you get the idea) to do it for journal goals is over and there's no one waiting in the wings ready to cast - what then? Back to them being as rare as hen's teeth. Especially given the current wurm population.

 

Also, maybe when someone offers to let you join in casting with them, you don't turn around and  tell them you plan on doing it later and they're not welcome as there's no room.

People had their chance today and cut of their noses to spite their face. If people were more relaxed, flexible and less uptight about getting in on a Rite, there would probably be a lot less sniping.

 

Changing the journal goal makes most sense, to me.

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2 minutes ago, Grumpled said:

Also, maybe when someone offers to let you join in casting with them, you don't turn around and  tell them you plan on doing it later and they're not welcome as there's no room.

People had their chance today and cut of their noses to spite their face. If people were more relaxed, flexible and less uptight about getting in on a Rite, there would probably be a lot less sniping.

 

A wonderful little fairytale. Here's what actually happened:

Caster says "Holy crop is ready, I can give up to 9 links"

Great, they have the right idea, but hours before I already gave a heads up that I planned to do this, also with 10 people.

Caster: "Is there still space?"

Unfortunately not, but here's the thread I try to organize this in: (Yes, I posted the link in the ingame chat)

I then noted, however, that the next cast has 6 links free and it would be wonderful to have a 90+ channelling priest on this roster to maximize links then because I wasn't sure anyone in the backlog had that high channelling.

Meanwhile, only 3 people on the roster had the chance to even acknowledge the PM I sent out to them.

Without any further notice by the caster, no attempt to contact me or post in thread, they went through with the cast.

 

Therefore:

-The caster was more than welcome to participate and be guaranteed a slot in the next cast. I openly invited them to do so.

-"The people" were 70% not even present as their attempts to organize this in a civil fashion were just steamrolled by selfishness.

-And if by "cut your nose to spite their face" you mean it's arrogance or a merely principled argument why people online are not "preferred", see the same thread that neither you nor the caster probably have read at all. I even explained it to Anarres in a short recap in the last repy of mine, for your reading pleasure, but the problem with this dates back even further. There's actual practical implications

 

If people stopped being so damn egocentrical and considered that not everyone can be online 24/7 and to have any hopeful shot at this except random chance, some form of cooperation is needed, then there will be no more sniping. 'cause I can tell you what, there's no way they used up all the 9 links in such short notice. Except with batteries perhaps.

 

What a treat to try to be as accomodating and fair as possible to everyone (not just whoever happens to be online) and read this kind of crap post implying I shat on the caster for not being there earlier or whatever you think this was.

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So long as the ability is there to "snipe", there will never be a "guarantee" of anything.  As I have said many times the goal encourages this behavior and  is at odds with the spirit of PVE. 

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Just now, nygen said:

So long as the ability is there to "snipe", there will never be a "guarantee" of anything.

All it it guarantees is that the group will try to include them. Obviously you can't guarantee for other peoples behaviour. Which is why your second sentence is exactly right. But you can either try to engange in something constructive to try and overcome this or feed into this rule of the jungle.

For whatever it's worth, it's actual evidence why this system needs a change. They devs may have hoped that people will just play nicer than it was predicted by very vocal feedback, and todays cast is another point how they have misjudged the situation. If I can at least get this out of this sisyphean task, I still get one thing I want.

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Posted (edited)

Don't piss off those pay2win mf'ers and you won't have this problem, maybe learn who and who not to step to. All I can say.

If you know you're talking to the guy who can log in and prem enough alts to just do the damn cast themselves, I wouldn't really tell them "no" unless you have your finger hovering over the "cast" button.

 

All things considered, Freedom is PvP nowadays. I mean there is no actual PvP, so it has to happen somewhere right?

 

How many Freedomers do you think, percentage wise, actually like and welcome new neighbors unconditionally?

 

Personally I've seen many people driven away from the game entirely by "neighbors" that immediately take hostile action because they don't want "their" land "encroached on" - Which is a nice way of saying that these greedy ####s don't want you touching their perimeter or the land around their deed that they don't even pay for.

 

Just the other day my good friend and long standing neighbor had a blocker shed put in his perimeter because he expanded a SINGLE tile southward. He was immediately verbally attacked by this person the next day upon logging in. Crap like this is much more common than you think.

 

So, where's the relevance?

 

If you don't see how that's relevant you're a moron. Freedom's community is at odds with itself because of the dying nature of the game, and because many of the community-strengthening incentives have been removed or nullified by this point. If you give people the possibility of being a ######, they are going to be a ###### when it suits and or pleases them - That is a fact of life.

 

People are starting to not care about being nice - We don't have the community that we used to, and this is plainly evident by the surge of "toxic" behavior from numerous groups and individuals. The point is, we don't all have as much willpower to be as kind as we possibly can, when none of us are even sure how much longer this game will be around. (and have players) And then, some people are just asshats.

Edited by whereami
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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, whereami said:

Don't piss off those pay2win mf'ers and you won't have this problem

 

Why do you people keep making me out as the "aggressor" when it's the Caster who have not made a single attempt to consolidate the situation.

Yeah, I was just trying to get on their nerves not immediately towing to their whims...what a joke. What am I supposed to tell them? Yes, take it all, at least let us have a share then?

You clearly don't understand the endeavour of publicly organzied casts because if you allow the efforts to be held at gunpoint ike that, the problem still persists.

 

And you're a moron if you don't understand that.

 

You're right on this though: People will be asshats given the chance. So take the opportunity away already. At least in this scenario, it's quite feasible and within reach in many conceivable ways. Can't speak for the other instances such as the ones you mention, that sort of unwarranted hostility is just sad. Especially with the low population as it is.

Edited by Flubb

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Posted (edited)

I never took any sides or acclaimed anyone to be an aggressor or aggregator of any kind.

I merely am pointing out that not all individuals are or aspire to be divine holy paragons of moral and just inclusivity.

 

Quote

Yeah, I was just trying to get on their nerves not immediately towing to their whims

Fact is, that's how they see it. They aren't you, and you're not them.

 

I'm agreeing with you that the system is flawed fundamentally by design, but I'm disagreeing that there is an easily coded fix for it that can be forcefully implemented.

Things like this need to use an honor system of sorts. But honor systems tend to break down when you add dishonorable individuals into your populace mix.

 

If you force the mechanic to be limited in the fashion that only players whom need to complete the goal can do the cast well - What happens in 3 or 4 months once every player that plans on sticking around has already done the goal? There would be no new aspiring priests to do the occasional cast, the mechanic would stagnate and suffocate itself.

 

Sure, you could just prem a new alt and priest it - but eventually it will force most players to do so, and I think that's in really bad taste as far as mechanic design goes.

 

Now couple that with everyone now feeling the "#### them, I'm gonna take as much as I can" type of mentality because of the dwindling ember that is this game's future.

 

What are we left with? Crap, that's what.

Edited by whereami

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, whereami said:

If you force the mechanic to be limited in the fashion that only players whom need to complete the goal can do the cast well - What happens in 3 or 4 months once every player that plans on sticking around has already done the goal? There would be no new aspiring priests to do the occasional cast, the mechanic would stagnate and suffocate itself. 

 

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not down with OPs "solution" at all. The system needs a change that accounts some sort of personal contribution up to the global cast. The fact that your efforts can be basically taken away is the source of the resentment. As MrGary has pointed out elsewhere, the limitation of availability, on the other hand, (due to possible links) is why there's "fighting" over it at all. Either one has to be addressed by the devs. Trying to work it off in order is a community effort at best, which is why I try to do that - and failing this, make it a case study why the devs need to step up. Not by doing what I do as mechanism, but by making my way obsolete.

Edited by Flubb
typo

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Flubb said:

The system needs a change that accounts some sort of personal contribution up to the global cast.

 

A change like that I could get on board with.

E.G. Change the goal to something like;

Contribute [ridiculous number] points to your deity's overall favor pool.

 

or something similar.

 

Quote

and failing this, make it a case study why the devs need to step up.

 

LOL, it's not like there aren't already plenty of those out there. I wish you luck, but I've been trying to hold the Devs accountable for their own actions for years, and it's still a struggle to this day. Perhaps we just need more people doing so.

Edited by whereami
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I think the system is fine the way it is.  Not everything should be easy.  Might as well beg to have the devs reduce the journal entry to completing 1 rift instead of 100 or whatever it is.

 

You want benediction to be able to sell +5 spell power casts?  Earn it.  Stop complaining because it wasn't handed to you.

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Posted (edited)

If casted <spell> more then X time ago OR linked to a priest that casted <spell> more then X time ago

    Abort the cast and de-link from the priest attempting the cast

    Cryptic message about shadows and mystery and stuff that means you can't participate yet

Else

    Allow linking or casting as usual

Endif

 

Problem of priests and links solved.

 

Edited by Nomadikhan

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

I think the system is fine the way it is.  Not everything should be easy.  Might as well beg to have the devs reduce the journal entry to completing 1 rift instead of 100 or whatever it is.

 

You want benediction to be able to sell +5 spell power casts?  Earn it.  Stop complaining because it wasn't handed to you.

 

Of course the hottest garbage take of them all comes from you, with the same line of "reason" you always tow without any sort of reflection.

Nobody wants it to be easy.

Nobody wants to to be handed to them.

We want it to be attainable by our (hard) work without the crap shot chance at the end in which it will be taken away by someone else. And to not sow this stupid amount of discord over what should be a community effort.

As I said, OP isn't the solution to that, but to say the system is fine "because it's hard and you just want it easy" is just disconnected from all reason and reality.

Edited by Flubb
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3 minutes ago, Flubb said:

We want it to be attainable by our (hard) work without the crap shot chance at the end in which it will be taken away by someone else.

 

If you are actively praying, (you, not a robot) then you know the second the global spell is castable, if you are paying attention.

If it pops while you're asleep, then someone else that is also doing (hard) work will be rewarded.  The gods do not simply gain favor for nothing while you sleep..... someone else is actively praying too.

 

10 minutes ago, Flubb said:

without any sort of reflection.

 

Reflection?  Okay, I'll bite.  What would you like me to reflect on.... my stance that one of the most grindy games on the internet SHOULD be difficult?  You'll want to start another thread because I don't want to de-rail the this one any worse than you are already trying to.

 

Or would you like me to reflect on my experience casting global spells?

Or did you mean recently with the Benediction changes?

 

unknown.png

 

I didn't have to ask, beg, negotiate or otherwise "work with others" to get the goal done.  I picked a random server, sailed, prayed my butt off and popped Holy Crop on Independence.  I did it again about 3 weeks later on Pristine with Rite of Spring for my Vynora priest.

 

You should be able to do the same.  But since I'm nice, despite your argument to the contrary.... I'll give you a small piece of advice..... go someplace other than Xanadu to do your global cast and you'll have a much greater chance of success!  Chances are the three people living on Release all have something better to do than spend all day praying.

 

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Posted (edited)

I don't get this "not everything has to be easy just earn it lol" fighting response.  The devs force this on us as working with the community, which is exactly what has been attempted several times now and getting it sniped by others in the community.

 

I prayed to get rite of spring done on independence, then I swapped faith to get rite of death done on independence.  For the rite of death two of us even did 99% or more of the prayers required.  All of my own accounts that will ever possibly get Benediction done has participated in a cast.  Am I going to sit here smug faced trashing on other people that are putting in more effort than I did to organize something so the community as a whole can continually benefit?  No, I'm going to use my experience to say that the current system is absolute trash and does not encourage the community working together and in fact actively prevents it.

Edited by MrGARY
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6 hours ago, Wargasm said:

my stance that one of the most grindy games on the internet SHOULD be difficult?

 

See, your problem is your really weird and distorted definition of "difficult".

The fact that other people may take it is an adversarial factor for sure, but where's the "difficulty" gameplay wise except in some weird meta pvp sense? You're even suggesting to actively avoid other populations. In a goal that is clearly meant to be cooperated on. If that isn't a tacit acknowledgement that the system is flawed I don't know what is.

 

But yeah, for what it's worth, I might pick up your advice and just run from the problem. Not even being sarcastic here. If I can't solve the problem here and the devs won't, what other option is there? But you're clearly not seeing the problem to begin with, that is very apparent from your response.

 

I'm not sad about derailing this either, to be honest. Nothing personal against Ekcin at all, but I think trying to regulate/enforce what I'm trying to do is dead in the water as an idea and even everything coming close to it will just be a bandaid on a fleshwound as it will just hamper "normal casts" to take place later (AKA regulating the few to the detriment of the many). The change needs to go deeper.

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Posted (edited)

Unfortunately unless they scrap/rework the goal things like this are gonna keep happening. Only 2 globals have happened on the smaller servers, those being me and a couple of friends spamming prayers on however many dozens of accs we had in total, and wargasm doing the same thing. People are going to look to xanadu to do casts, because it's the only server that actually has the population to charge them semi-regularly, and as time goes on and everyone gets their 70 prayer goals done, rituals are gonna take longer to charge in the future unless you autismo praying on dozens of accs, so people want to get it out of the way asap and don't really care if it inconveniences someone they don't talk to.

 

I cast holy crop on cele on 5/24, it had only just ticked over to 50% there when we started praying so it took about 5 months to charge halfway here, now 80 days later and we're not even at 25% to a global yet, so it's probably being over a year until next cast lol. Balancing the favor requirement so all servers get them at the same rate would help since it wouldn't be everyone in the game scoping out one server like it's a deed with decaying walls, but the devs don't like fun things.

Edited by Oblivionnreaver

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Posted (edited)

 

First of all: This is enough of derailing, especially those preaching their boring sermon of the dying game everywhere again and again. Before I ask the mods to close the thread and remove all off topic, one more attempt to explain my proposal, and the suggestion forum is for discussing proposals, not to rant around (I understand Flubb's attempts to defend against smear, but even that was not completely helpful). Thanks especially to Anarres who was the only one who fully replied on topic so far, also OR for factual information.

 

The idea was

1. create an order in which the spell may be casted

2. optimize the number of participants

 

The order would be in the way of a control break algorithm: all participants in the order they signed, among them those priests with the journal open first, then all eligible players, first all on the list, then the rest, no matter what kind of priest. Insofar all objections about removing the ability to cast the spell are unfounded.

 

I see the problem mainly as a congestion problem, where game mechanics encourage unfair practices which in addition lead to suboptimal use of the resources (100k prayers are a resource which deserves more than 1 sniper plus two batteries). There is no infinite number of priests.

 

First part is that all eligible priest online mandatorily are to be invited to link (summon may be necessary for). There may be a delay of about an hour needed for starting the spell altogether (not a drama where 100k prayers are necessary) to allow all to assemble and be summoned, and even possible participants be noticed by PM or whatever.

 

In best case, ten priests awaiting the journal goal are removed from the list every time. Given that only priests with the journal chapter unlocked are considered priests awaiting the goal (not a 2s prem makeshift priest) how long would it take that all priests have achieved the goal?

 

Edited by Ekcin
addendum

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4 hours ago, Ekcin said:

This is enough of derailing

 

Love how you basically try to single me out there for "derailing" your thread lol.

When I've actually given example by thought-experimentation as to why your original proposal will not work - And then proceeded to agree with a proposed counterexample posted by another.

 

A proposal, mind you, that more people seem to agree with than your OP.

 

Maybe instead of trying to play forum gestapo (even you're not self-loathing enough to be staff around here) and being so uptight about your suggestion thread being yours and only yours, you could open your eyes a little bit and realize that, not only are you allowed to suggest things here, but so are others.

Most of us agree with the premise on which your suggestion is based, but almost none of us agree with the actual method of implementation which you suggest.

Therefore, someone else suggested another way of dealing with the problem, while agreeing that there is a problem.

 

I guess an overall  -1  to OP, for more than just attitude.

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1 hour ago, whereami said:

I guess an overall  -1  to OP, for more than just attitude.

 

Well your guess, and ofc you are entitled to. And thanks for this first on topic statement from your side in this thread.

 

Just as a recommendation: better refrain from offensive wording like "forum gestapo", or at least don't whine about "censorship" when facing consequences.

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Posted (edited)

-1--The game is a sandbox with the motto of 'deed it or lose it'; mechanics like this have absolutely no place.

Edited by Delacroix
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17 minutes ago, Delacroix said:

-1--The game is a sandbox with the motto of 'deed it or lose it'; mechanics like this have absolutely no place.

 

Interesting point.Care to explain what deeds have to do with global spells? Forgive me that I am a fairly new player and lack such insights even after reading all rules and documentation available.

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