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Gladiator

Epic looting system

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Why don't we remove the Epic limitations on looting? 

 

Right now it works like this: You kill someone and you can't loot them as long as there is an enemy in the vicinity. This means two things :

1. Attacking somebody's deed will almost always result in the defenders keeping all the loot because all they have to do is keep one account in a cave and the enemies will never loot.

2. The guys with more numbers will almost always keep all the loot, you are less likely able to gain items from uphill battles

 

Im not saying that the chaos looting is perfect as it favors the guys with less ping, but at the very least its not that exploitable.

 

What do you think?

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Kind of agree with you that neither of the systems are perfect, personally I do prefer Chaos looting system over Epic but I do like the idea behind the Epic looting.

The idea in this case meaning to focus more on fighting while the fight actually occurs instead of micro managing the corpse looting.

 

So yeah, I'm open for some nice suggestions from the other community members on how a better looting system could work.

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I prefer epic over chaos for the looting system. The whole take spam is not really something I like. Just don't fight at deeds I guess.

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I've never been in a PvP fight so I don't know how they usually go and what their pacing is, I'm just spitballing a concept that sounds like fun on paper (But may be horribly ill fitting for all I know, don't rip my head off, please):

 

What about a system that allows you to actually fight over the corpse itself by requiring to "capture" it with proximity and numbers prior to looting? Instead of just categorically blocking by enemies in local, make their hindering effect more gradual - and even be able to give them a hard time retrieving their fallen soldiers gear themselves, depending on the situation.

 

Could be tweaked so that singled out enemies can still be grabbed almost instantly, but the closer an ally of the fallen is, the slower the capture, or vice versa, if you manage to push enemies away from/outnumber them around your fallen comrade, you start capturing the corpse in your favor and can grab and save the stuff.

 

This would work in favor of the team with better strategy and cohesion instead of giving either attackers or defenders a "free pass", thus also combining the actual fighting with "micromanaging the looting".

 

This would cover point 1 without making it "free for all", at least. In order to address point 2:

At lower capture thresholds, allow: 1) Taking one item from the corpse instead of the whole corpse, giving you a cooldown on looting the corpse and/or 2.) make the Take-Action have a small timer after which a random item is looted from the corpse. Like a hasty hit'n'run grab without much thought. It may even prefer equipped things over the corpses inventory(Would make sense), though it may be difficult codewise to track post-mortem what has been equipped and what hasn't.

 

 

Maybe that's just overcomplicating it, though, because the above will be pretty hard to "get right" and feel satisfying in every scenario. A "loot action" that takes a random item would already alleviate both of OPs concerns to a fair degree I think. Action timers are interrupted/blocked by combat usually, in which case it also gives the defenders a fighting chance to defend their allies gear. Might be bothersome to have to spam an action to get something you properly earned and nobody is really contesting though, hence the "capturing" idea so you can override the cave dwellers and just take it all at once.

Edited by Flubb
Clarifying "ally" in a certain context
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I couldnt even pick up a mob corpse to butcher to get some meat to try to tame one of the crocs attacking me lol 

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I feel that player corpses should not be able to be picked up but drug like a cart instead. The gear should need to be removed with an action timer if enemies are within a number of tiles and if you are removing an item from a corpse you should receive some penalty to defending yourself from enemies. Spamming take on a corpse is silly in a fight. 

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I am torn, on the one hand I like the epic system the best just personal preference.

 

On the other hand I understand your argument having recently benefited and lost to the system.

 

Not sure really.

 

EDIT: 

Ok so thought about it some more. Decided you are pretty much right. 

So basically there is this concept I keep harping on about, the idea of treasure and state management. To put it simply:

 

Reduction in Treasure = Reduction in capability and management

Expansion of Treasure = Expansion in capability and management

 

Regardless of how easy the game currently is to play, and how easy it is to replace gear, there is still the matter of time, and resource management.

 

Allowing one side to continuously stack their treasure allows then great utility in what they do, time doesn't have to be wasted, more can go into fights because you can re-gear instantly you capability is stronger. Time based resources, like crops, horses, etc factor into this too.

 

It is better for both sides to be able to loot, in the midst of battle to at least have equal chance to collect treasure. But again, I don't care all that much if it is implemented because I do like the current system. I can also see it benefiting me in the future. 

Edited by FranktheTank

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What about a 3 minute timer before corpses are lootable? Then whichever side manages to push the enemies back from the corpse and defend it will get the loot

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25 minutes ago, Alexgopen said:

What about a 3 minute timer before corpses are lootable? Then whichever side manages to push the enemies back from the corpse and defend it will get the loot

I actually thought about this too. Maybe like a 5 minute cooldown until you can take stuff from them. Increase the cooldown for karma corpse summon by whatever the time is.

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I have experience only with the Epic system - I personally like that you actually need to push the enemy away to be able to loot. Both way have its pros and cos and still on open field combat the current Epic system sounds much better than instant spam of take button.

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I'm also comfortable with a timer on corpses - at least I can't see instant nays yet.

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16 minutes ago, Capi said:

I actually thought about this too. Maybe like a 5 minute cooldown until you can take stuff from them. Increase the cooldown for karma corpse summon by whatever the time is.

 

Yea karma corpse would have to be accounted for.  Thats why i said 3 instead of 5, but increasing karma corpse delay would get around that like you said

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What about making corpses unable to be picked up, but pull/push/load/unload like certain furniture, and require a timed action to open, like a butchering action, interruptable by combat? This would prevent people from spamming take and avoid people from racing to their corpses and just re-gearing instantly.

 

You can still recover/loot corpses on the battlefield but it requires you to strategize their recovery and makes it difficult to do in the heat of battle.

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16 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

What about making corpses unable to be picked up, but pull/push/load/unload like certain furniture, and require a timed action to open, like a butchering action, interruptable by combat? This would prevent people from spamming take and avoid people from racing to their corpses and just re-gearing instantly.

 

You can still recover/loot corpses on the battlefield but it requires you to strategize their recovery and makes it difficult to do in the heat of battle.

People will just use battlecarts again and spamload when people die.  Then when the battle is finally over you have the annoyance of needing to pick all of your opponents carts to get corpses out if they havent been karmad yet 

 

I have a load bind

Edited by Alexgopen

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8 minutes ago, Alexgopen said:

People will just use battlecarts again and spamload when people die.  Then when the battle is finally over you have the annoyance of needing to pick all of your opponents carts to get corpses out if they havent been karmad yet 

 

I have a load bind

Yes, but loading has a timer off deed. People need to be there ready to load the corpse once someone dies. It is more cumbersome and harder to load than it is to pick up a corpse and run away. You can also kill the horses and drag the cart away. 

 

Its no more easier than picking up a corpse, looting and dropping it again.

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11 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

Yes, but loading has a timer off deed. People need to be there ready to load the corpse once someone dies. It is more cumbersome and harder to load than it is to pick up a corpse and run away. You can also kill the horses and drag the cart away. 

 

Its no more easier than picking up a corpse, looting and dropping it again.

 

You can continue loading in combat.  Its more op than picking up bc it doesnt weigh you down and locks it up for your dead friend to karma it while the fight rages on, bc there's no way enemies pick your cart midfight

 

10s to lock something up for safekeeping until after the fight means nobodys getting drops

 

We dont want battlecarts. Your suggestion may be better than chaos, but worse than what we currently have 

Edited by Alexgopen

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44 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

What about making corpses unable to be picked up, but pull/push/load/unload like certain furniture, and require a timed action to open, like a butchering action, interruptable by combat? This would prevent people from spamming take and avoid people from racing to their corpses and just re-gearing instantly.

 

You can still recover/loot corpses on the battlefield but it requires you to strategize their recovery and makes it difficult to do in the heat of battle.

Same thing I said but allows for quick loading to a cart

Edited by armyskin
Random typo

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9 minutes ago, armyskin said:

Same thing I said but allows for quick loading to a cart

 

Yours is more reasonable but imo loading the whole corpse including loot into a fantastic locked cart with a 10s timer would be too much.

 

At least with a player instagrabbing the body you can kill them to get it back on the ground, but you definitely arent picking that cart until well after the fight is over

Edited by Alexgopen
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Leave the loot system as it is. I only played on epic and i realy like it. It means the winner takes it all. I would hate to care about loot before the fights is over.

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3 hours ago, gbgbo said:

Leave the loot system as it is. I only played on epic and i realy like it. It means the winner takes it all. I would hate to care about loot before the fights is over.

Well the problem with that is the fact that the current system is extremely exploitable...

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BL could've just kept sending alts out to that fight to keep enemies nearby so MR couldnt pick up the corpses, while our dead players karmad them

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1-2 minute "claim" timer, after which corpse is lootable, which blocks teleporting it?

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A smaller proximity block (no loot if enemies within 10 tiles) would be more reasonable than a local proximity block. Basically reduce the epic enemy presence block range.

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17 hours ago, Gladiator said:

Well the problem with that is the fact that the current system is extremely exploitable...

Its not a exploit if you know the risk. Just dont fight at deeds then.

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I like the epic system because the person killed has a chance to get his gear back if his team plays it right.

How about making the corpses non movable while enemies in local but able to loot items inside on a timer (20s per item) with the foraging animation should work, and make it so that either cr drops while doing that or you won't shield block.

Can even add some skill and randomness to it to grab another item instead of what you picked just for kicks. "You loot the rare sword but your hands shake and you grab the mixed grass instead."

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