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Deathangel

epic --> freedom skill gain transfer.

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Make it so a "fair" amount of skill gained on epic is transferred and kept when you go to freedom.

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sure, just not items +1

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and consult a couple mechanically experienced players that have grinded a lot ( I can make some recommendations in private )

 

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+1

 

Epic will not last if this is not implemented.

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Ya why punish players for playing the game by devaluing their work inconsistently. Maybe someone just hasn't sat down for a few hours and coded a solution for it.

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LOL. Now that we finally get a new ele, the "freedomers" finally complain about this.

 

Implement an equal transfer and skill system and do nothing short of 1:1. No nerfs this time. No screwing over Epic players. You can keep the building mechanics, but update those same building mechanics to apply to fences as well on Epic.

 

We have been saying this for years.

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Posted (edited)

+1

 

Otherwise we'll see a repeat of the last time we had a population surge. Once deeds are built, gear is made, people will start asking themselves "why am I playing on this server?".

 

People enjoy Epic, they just don't want to feel like they're missing out on skill. Which is what's happening with the one way transfer system. 

Edited by BrokenSanity
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This isn't something that would be coming with this short term revamp. This is not the planned major overhaul, it was a short term rework of removing some mechanics and disabling others in order to address some of the larger issues raised, we're interested in seeing how it goes but we won't be committing a huge amount of dev time for major mechanics changes until the post frontier rework. 

 

we'll take on feedback and such during this round but we won't be making major changes like that 

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2 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

This isn't something that would be coming with this short term revamp. This is not the planned major overhaul, it was a short term rework of removing some mechanics and disabling others in order to address some of the larger issues raised, we're interested in seeing how it goes but we won't be committing a huge amount of dev time for major mechanics changes until the post frontier rework. 

 

we'll take on feedback and such during this round but we won't be making major changes like that 

It wouldn't have to be included in the short term rework, but if this suggestion or similar solution was even considered for the future, I think that would make a big difference to the longitivity of the Epic cluster.

 

People may argue and say "But skilling is quicker on Epic!". But that ignores the fact life on a PvP server is much tougher. You can't just indefinitely grind, untouchable in your home. Perhaps that evens things out.

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A system similar to this has been considered, but I wouldn't go making any plans around that being the end result any time soon. 

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I expect a small bump of players and activity.. bunch of accounts sold out and ppl leaving as it already happened, this time without the need to regain their skill at nearly 5x with all possible boosters(3x transfered bonus+sb+path+nutrition+aff food+aff if any)

ez pz, lets watch it play again

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4 hours ago, Finnn said:

I expect a small bump of players and activity.. bunch of accounts sold out and ppl leaving as it already happened, this time without the need to regain their skill at nearly 5x with all possible boosters(3x transfered bonus+sb+path+nutrition+aff food+aff if any)

ez pz, lets watch it play again

I expect any discussion or solution is so far out from the current situation that any comments or concerns about what may or may not happen would be futile at best. I will point out that the original epic to freedom transfer didn't tank any market or drive anything through the floor, minus a few priests not realising what prices were acceptable. 

 

This is something that we have on our discussion list, but we also have a list of things we want to avoid as well, so rest assured that we will be looking into the possibility, but not guaranteeing anything existing would be eligible 

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58 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

minus a few priests not realising what prices were acceptable.

You really do seem to hate priests you know?

 

Also +1 from me for the OP; epic has a clear risk (PvP), so there should be a reward for skilling there.

 

Speed vs Safety :- the CORRECT kind of edge to give to PvP over PvE

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Posted (edited)

The problem with the "clear risk" on Epic is that it can be fairly easily mitigated most time. When the skill transfer to Freedom is allowed with the Epic curve and action timer, many Freedomers may go to Epic for the grind only. Further on, the "Jekyll-Hyde-split" (:)) between Freedom and Epic allows to accumulate sleep bonus on the one cluster while online on the other. This may become another source of exploits with skill gains transferred in both directions.

 

I am not against an Epic-Freedom skill transfer both ways. But it is not trivial to balance.

Edited by Ekcin
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"If they make that change, I will reprem and come over to epic gladly." - inactive player RE: OP

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Posted (edited)
On 7/14/2019 at 2:39 PM, Ekcin said:

The problem with the "clear risk" on Epic is that it can be fairly easily mitigated most time. When the skill transfer to Freedom is allowed with the Epic curve and action timer, many Freedomers may go to Epic for the grind only. Further on, the "Jekyll-Hyde-split" (:)) between Freedom and Epic allows to accumulate sleep bonus on the one cluster while online on the other. This may become another source of exploits with skill gains transferred in both directions.

 

I am not against an Epic-Freedom skill transfer both ways. But it is not trivial to balance.

I agree. A good solution might take a full days work, and might take another days work retweaking after testing and feedback.

 

I don't think the SB gain while on diff cluster will be a major source of problems. Ppl need sleep at some point and it does reward turbonerding in a small way, without needing to spend money on SB powders. Players getting an extra 30min SB daily is what we are talking about here.

Edited by Deathangel

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On 7/16/2019 at 7:49 AM, Deathangel said:

I agree. A good solution might take a full days work, and might take another days work retweaking after testing and feedback.

 

Thats an absolutely way off underestimation. Like I said, not coming in this rendition of epic, future renditions maybe 

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Maybe a cool perk is after the Ele revamp is over in a few months, we get a 1 time bulk or 50% of the skill gains from the time of Ele reset transferred to freedom as a reward.  Wouldn't be a full 100% even skill transfer, but it would be something which is better than nothing.

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On 7/17/2019 at 11:22 AM, nicedreams said:

Maybe a cool perk is after the Ele revamp is over in a few months, we get a 1 time bulk or 50% of the skill gains from the time of Ele reset transferred to freedom as a reward.  Wouldn't be a full 100% even skill transfer, but it would be something which is better than nothing.

they need to just add the algorithm for a reversal going from epic to freedom.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/13/2019 at 7:49 PM, Deathangel said:

Ya why punish players for playing the game by devaluing their work inconsistently. Maybe someone just hasn't sat down for a few hours and coded a solution for it.

 

On 7/13/2019 at 10:23 PM, Challenge said:

Implement an equal transfer and skill system and do nothing short of 1:1. No nerfs this time. No screwing over Epic players.

 

Giving people a free ride to the top does exactly that, it devalues the hard work and effort people on Freedom have to put into their skills WITHOUT having nearly 3x skillgain with guaranteed tick rates. Changes taking the game in this direction due to overbearing pressure from the players who invested in Epic (and were eventually regretful it) are one of the major contributors to the current poor state of the game's retention rate (and generally declining populace) of Wurm itself.

 

I know many people who started playing Wurm pre-beta whom up and left once the Epic skill transfers happened the first time around - And you cannot tell me that coincides with anything other than those players having felt shafted by the decisions made, and their progress and skills feeling devalued to the point the game no longer held their interest. WU also had a major role to play in this as well.

 

If the transfer algorithm was actually fair, I might be able to support it. I'm not a fan of anyone feeling as though their efforts were meaningless. But the first time around they definitely were not "fair".

 

Because I know someone will try and ###### about that last statement; If you disagree with me on that, take a look at how many originally Epic-only accounts are currently in the top 100 on Niarja.

Most the top end Freedom accounts existed for multiple years (5 or 6) before Epic was even in the drawing stages of life - And some of them have been grinding nearly every day of real time since then.

The fact that Epic accounts were coming over with comparable stats and skills, often even more, is absolutely atrocious and is clearly symbolic of a problem in the skill transfer algorithm.

Sure, someone on a new server that's only existed for 4 or 5 years could potentially just put in double the amount of time as the person on freedom - But we both know that is not the case. Epic is attractive to casual players who want PvP, that's even what it was marketed as. Especially when the hardcore freedom players are putting in 6 to 8 hours a day. Realistically the only reason any of those accounts got to the point they are at, is due to WoO's and the cheesed skillgain system on Epic.

 

Even semi-hardcore dominantly-Epic-based players have admitted to me that Epic was the single biggest Window of Opportunity the game has ever seen. Those players will deny such claims of course, because they want to reap the benefits of exploiting said broken system - And they even informed me of that as well.

 

I sincerely hope CCAB doesn't continue to make the same mistakes (these kinds of changes) that have dug the game a steep rut in the ground until today - But I definitely don't have any faith that it will stop, in part due to the pressure from the easy-mode players, and in lack of competence and assertiveness for a future vision of the game itself.

Edited by whereami
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2 hours ago, whereami said:

Most the top end Freedom accounts existed for multiple years (5 or 6) before Epic was even in the drawing stages of life - And some of them have been grinding nearly every day of real time since then.

 

5-6 years before epic was released is at least 1 year before wurmageddon, even worse off when you talk about drawing stages.  I'm not sure if you understand that epic is nearly 8 years old

 

The rest of your post is a whole lot of rage and not a whole lot of actual fact.  You aren't even taking in to account that most people pre epic did not have the option for endless sleep powder, because sp with prem wasn't a thing.  The one thing you did get right was that the merge wasn't fair, because in many cases it took away too much skill. 

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Personally I dont know why people care about what effort another person puts on their account. How is it any different for an Epic player to come to Freedom with their skills than for that same player buying one of the 6 billion accounts for sale out there? With all the skill bonuses out there today, you can get ANY crafting skill to 90+ in less than a month from day one, maybe 3 months for WS. You can get 90 med in less than a year (hi Stickher!) and you can have a pretty decent account in 6 months.

 

With that in mind, how does ANYONE having 90+ in any skill devalue your account? You don't loose anything in any way, shape or form. You can still imp the same tools, make the same crafts, hunt the same things... and this is assuming that EVERYONE who would be coming from Epic is this massive grind monster everyone talks about. Newsflash: They are not.

 

I said it before and I'll say it again. Allowing Epic players to come to Freedom is nothing but a good thing. More populated servers, more people with an incentive to stay, more friendly faces, a livelier game. Even the economy is benefited by having more people invested in the market: more buyers, seller, crafters, consumers. Right now the Freedom Market is so anemic that you cant sell 4 90/90 horse shoes for more than a silver. I've paid 1s for rares, for crying out loud!

 

Its time to merge the community, or soon we will not have a game to play.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

Personally I dont know why people care about what effort another person puts on their account. How is it any different for an Epic player to come to Freedom with their skills than for that same player buying one of the 6 billion accounts for sale out there? With all the skill bonuses out there today, you can get ANY crafting skill to 90+ in less than a month from day one, maybe 3 months for WS. You can get 90 med in less than a year (hi Stickher!) and you can have a pretty decent account in 6 months.

 

With that in mind, how does ANYONE having 90+ in any skill devalue your account? You don't loose anything in any way, shape or form. You can still imp the same tools, make the same crafts, hunt the same things... and this is assuming that EVERYONE who would be coming from Epic is this massive grind monster everyone talks about. Newsflash: They are not.

 

I said it before and I'll say it again. Allowing Epic players to come to Freedom is nothing but a good thing. More populated servers, more people with an incentive to stay, more friendly faces, a livelier game. Even the economy is benefited by having more people invested in the market: more buyers, seller, crafters, consumers. Right now the Freedom Market is so anemic that you cant sell 4 90/90 horse shoes for more than a silver. I've paid 1s for rares, for crying out loud!

 

You literally just described every problem the game currently has in detail, but then at the last sentence, you attribute all this to being the cause of "player separation" as if Epic not being part of the freedom cluster is what's responsible for all this turmoil. "Newsflash" - Everyone who played Epic was on Freedom up until less than a week or two ago. Didn't magically solve any problems, did it? Or was I simply unaware that the game had suddenly come back to life, all because Epic'ers had graced us with their glorious presence?

 

You are trying to push for a change you have put absolutely zero forethought into - Allowing people to cross with skills between Epic and Freedom does nothing for the actual game, all it does is make accounts more omnipotent than they already are, and give those who want to grind on Epic the upper hand since you can do so with guaranteed tick rates and significantly higher skillgain. Something I suspect you would benefit from, but I could potentially be wrong there. Freedomers certainly don't gain anything from it, I can tell you that, other than omnipotent accounts randomly hopping over to sell items at cheaper-than-dirt prices. That doesn't sound like much of a boon to anyone as far as I'm concerned. In fact, hmm, it actually sounds kind of like the exact reason the game IS in the state it's in today...  hmm....

 

How does making Epic skills transfer to Freedom, give people any incentive to keep playing the game? Unless they're playing the game with a bot, skilling up new accounts on Epic and then selling them for profit - I fail to see any incentive generated by that.

 

You realize there is a reason people use Epic to cheese skillgain goals on Freedom, right? Because 70 prayer for a priest would take you literal days, weeks, on Freedom. I got it in less than 12 hours on Epic. Now you wanna tell me that not only should you get credit for cheesing the goal on Freedom, but you should *keep* your skill as well with no penalty to skillgain?

 

On 7/14/2019 at 12:39 PM, Ekcin said:

When the skill transfer to Freedom is allowed with the Epic curve and action timer, many Freedomers may go to Epic for the grind only ... allows to accumulate sleep bonus on the one cluster while online on the other. This may become another source of exploits with skill gains transferred in both directions.

 

Why should freedomers have to work 3x as hard (sometimes more depending on skill) just to reach the same level of skill? Which you then get for free (or at least, 1/3 of effort cost) when you are allowed to transfer your skills over.

How is any of this fair to freedom players, whatsoever? None of you seem to be concerned about fairness to others, only yourselves. As long as it's fair to YOU, getting to keep all your skill, it's fine. But unfairness to freedomers? Who gives a ####? Clearly no one here.

 

Edited by whereami

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