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What's the difference between champing up and all the freedomers who ran over to epic to boost skills after the announcement of the merger? Afaik none of them ever faced sanctioning.

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epic players are second class players, jeez dont you know already

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All I can think of in times like this is how the prem count is still ever inching towards sub 2000.  The hype of epic being active for a couple months brought prem count to a stand still boucing around 2100-2150 for a brief time and now under 2100 and still dropping.  This loss is clearly coming from the core amount of the player base, pve, seeing how abysmal the pve server player counts have been, so when the pvpers are pissed off and driven away yet again, a noticable chunk of prems countering the pve loss will disappear.

 

What are the plans to truly save this game when players are driven away?  Are we so reliant on whatever frontier is, and so-called epic attention by the people actually paid and in charge in the future, to save wurm?  We literally can't even know what's going on half the times unless we want to be forced to waste hours of our time watching people talk on a stream waiting for tidbits that matter and when we want to know what's going on we're told to just watch the stream, it's like people are so out of touch with what the players want and need because they're right in their mind and that's all that matters.  I still don't even know if people talking about epic being fully reset in the future is just a meme or something said in stream.  I still don't even know who found Enki's treasure or what it was

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19 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

What are the plans to truly save this game when players are driven away?  Are we so reliant on whatever frontier is, and so-called epic attention by the people actually paid and in charge in the future, to save wurm?  We literally can't even know what's going on half the times unless we want to be forced to waste hours of our time watching people talk on a stream waiting for tidbits that matter and when we want to know what's going on we're told to just watch the stream, it's like people are so out of touch with what the players want and need because they're right in their mind and that's all that matters.  I still don't even know if people talking about epic being fully reset in the future is just a meme or something said in stream.  I still don't even know who found Enki's treasure or what it was

I don't know when it started, but it was quite some time ago that the Valrei Internationals stopped being... news. I remember in the past these posts were usually exciting to read. These days, it just feels like re-hashed information of subjects that were last week's topics.

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Sindusk said:

I don't know when it started, but it was quite some time ago that the Valrei Internationals stopped being... news. I remember in the past these posts were usually exciting to read. These days, it just feels like re-hashed information of subjects that were last week's topics.

More like last months

Like yeah we get it. Elevation is getting a reset. Independence had its anniversary (this was mentioned time and again in the last 2 valrei news AND there is a seperate thread for it as well), and a new client launcher is coming. Great. We knew these early last month.

How many times do we have to be told again about stuff that has happened or stuff we knew about for months while we still know literally nothing whatsoever about Frontier other than that it's supposed to be... big? Well hopefully bigger than epic was hyped up to be. 

I have a feeling that it's still so early in development that nothing is set in stone and not even the devs know much about it.

 

Edited by atazs

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1 hour ago, Pingpong said:

What's the difference between champing up and all the freedomers who ran over to epic to boost skills after the announcement of the merger? Afaik none of them ever faced sanctioning.

 

Any freedom players who went to epic to boost skills must have been rudely awakened when they found out that skills gained on Epic don't transfer back to Freedom then ;)

AFAIK many Freedom players went to Epic during the 'Achievements goldrush' to take advantage of the ability to gain achievements they did not have the skill for on Freedom, but that's not quite the same thing.

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8 minutes ago, Zenity said:

Any freedom players who went to epic to boost skills must have been rudely awakened when they found out that skills gained on Epic don't transfer back to Freedom then ;)

He is talking about when the announcement came that the skills would be transfered: the single time this happened. A lot of people rushed to Epic to exploit the skilling system and get easy skill gains on things that would be a pain to do on freedom and to gain skills on their priests that otherwise they wouldn't be able to do without a skill loss. A lot of people did that. 

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Warning -Textwall-
Growing <-> Stable <-> Declining -> Death

 

 

In terms of the mmorpg scale of population growth wurm is declining; it's an obvious fact, but one worth stating.  Most interesting of all (and the reason I may draft a paper on it some time, since I only have observational evidence at the moment) is just how it is declining.

 

Wurm's exodus didn't happen overnight; it is the result of a unique combination of circumstances applied over a longer period of time.  The trigger of the decline is simple, WU.

 

When WU was introduced, a lot of WO players gave it a go; but no great servers were around and modding was still a thing of the future.  Players tried WU, and then went back to playing WO.  However, as time passed, modding came about and, very quickly, players realised that they could take wurm in the direction they wanted on their own server.  Quickly, we saw several strong WU server establishing themselves.  This trickled away population from WO.

 

Note; the "creative" players who were more interested in wurm's creative side, have a much better outlet on WU servers.  The "builder achiever" players also have reasonable prospects on WU now, so they begin to move over.

 

At this point, WO was not declining as such, but it had moved from growing to stable.

 

What happened next was a series of keystone community members moving over to WU, or leaving wurm entirely.  Keystone players are, essentially, the ambassadors of sandboxes; they build and hold together communities.  When these players leave, their community usually dissolves and either spreads among other communities (20--50%), or leaves the game (50--80%).

 

Now, wurm being a niche MMO, it's operating population was quite low already, and, due to the sheer amount of landmass added by Xanadu's release, the population was already borderline before "social critical mass" began to vanish in certain areas.  In this instance, by social critical mass, we mean the player count needed to retain social players.

 

From here, wurm entered the period of clear decline, and here we must break up the notion of decline a little into a series of event.s

0.  Player retention drop.  In terms of wurm, this was the loss of social critical mass (see above).

1.  Disruption due to loss of low tier players.  This phase occurs when the lack of new players has a notable negative impact on higher tier players (be it no-one to show off to, or a feeling of apathy with the lack of new faces).  With wurm, however, this was the market beginning to fail due to the dropping number of social players (the main "buyers").  Note, the endgoal for many of the PvE achiever types was being able to pay their permium via the market; we must also note that personal investment required for PvP rises here, as PvP on wurm is expensive.  "Usefulness to the group" is also a major community uniting point in WO.  This not only hit retention rates, but it killed much of wurm's already poor "return" rate.  At this point, WO still has a stronger appeal to social players than WU, but it's not much of a lead.

2.  Player Clustering.  Remaining players form strong communities, but these communities stall in growth due to poor player influx, or vanish when their keystone player leaves.  This was where wurm was till about 3--4 months ago.  At this stage, an MMO would be classed as a "ghost town MMO".  Note that, now, WU has an equally strong draw for social players, and WO's social player retention rate drops even further.  In fact, it almost ceases entirely.

3.  Cluster Amalgamation.  Too few stable clusters exist, and player clusters begin to further combine, very rarely stabilising.  This is where wurm is right now. 

4.  Dying Ember.  [Hypothesis] Players form a small global community, the only one remaining.  I've not observed this phase in wurm; I have, however, seen it with the alpha stage of a few indie mmorpgs.  At this point, WU is entirely advantagious over WO.  WO may still operate if the diehard players are whales, and this may well be the fact, and it may avoid the final step into death.

5.  Game dies.  Self explanatory really, the one thing you want to avoid.  WO might manage it; but I suspect that a lot of it's whales are already looking to cut their losses and are waiting for the next big thing.

 

In wurm's case, we see that misfortune has played a heavy role in it's decline.  However, the one avoidable step was WU, and once that step was taking it was not a step that could be taken back.  Short of a massive player influx, with a miraculous retention rate, this process is not reversable.

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1 hour ago, Sindusk said:

I don't know when it started, but it was quite some time ago that the Valrei Internationals stopped being... news. I remember in the past these posts were usually exciting to read. These days, it just feels like re-hashed information of subjects that were last week's topics.

Well that's a given, there's nowhere near enough new content coming every 2 weeks to share it. Given updates are now monthly the news becoming monthly makes sense, a devnews that comes out just before the update detailing everything in it. 

 

That said, I have many players enjoying the community aspect of the news, not just what is coming in the next update, but what's going on in wurm as well, a one stop shop to check everything out that's available in the launcher. Sort of like a recap at times compiling everything into one place. 

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Ether, I think I'm in "personal" stage 4. :) I'm no longer playing, but haven't quite given up on what I did completely, yet, so I'm keeping what I built from decaying (i.e., spending silver on upkeep). Eventually I'll give up on that too.

 

I don't think this Elevation reset is going to bring me back. Sure, it's a shiny new server, but even without skilling, the basic gameplay required (imping, enchanting, and all the repetitive unfunness required to get gear and build stuff) makes me feel sick now. :(

 

At least from my perspective, Wurm was good to do once, but that's it.

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imo one new PvE server that is isolated from the cluster that resets every 12-18 months (Where you earn rewards that you redeem in the next cycle for making progress), with some level of faster skillgain, would be a good jump.

Every wurmian wants to colonise like they were born in 1820s Britain. The landgrab goldrush of 2011-2014 was a golden era for wurm, everyone loves new lands to explore.

If I heard that was coming to WO, I'd resub for it for sure.

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Posted (edited)

the major factor that has steadily doomed wurm's new player population:

 

account trading.... the ultimate form of pay to win... top tier players never quit, this has been proven time and time again... and because of this account trading its effect is pushing the key factors of the game downward:
A) economy: higher tier crafters will always continue to create / sell large quantities of their crafts and when said player gets bored of farming wurm for 30E per week they sell the account for what they paid for it and move on
B ) PVP, nothing is more discouraging to a new player than realizing that it will take ages for them to be useful in pvp because top pvp accounts are continually sold / traded and the only thing worse than dying on pvp server and losing all your stuff, is dying to an account that you just saw was sold recently... if they had used their own toon you might have had a chance
C) one of the biggest draws of a slow-paced game like wurm is having something to show for all the hard work and time you have put into the game, but in the end, its just a game, not an investment or a source of income, and people who treat it as such are killing it for a lot of players who just enjoy it as a game.

 

there are many arguments that you cant pvp unless you have been grinding for years, but this would not be the case if the high end accounts that have been sold over and over because the original homie is long gone from wurm would be gone so the average skills would be considerably lower allowing much newer accounts to be more competitive

 

and until this account trading has stopped the game will continue to push people away and just promote pay to win new players buying top end accounts and farming them continuing to destroy the in-game economy and pvp communities and discourage newcomers who see it all over the forums and trade chat

Edited by Evilreaper
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Posted (edited)

am i blind or why was there no mention of removing the ability to hitch HH to carts

 

or are you going to fix the bug that stops the bardings from not reducing speed to animals hitched on vehicles

 

hello

 

do i need to post countless cancerous videos of the meta

 

its going to be a real shocker for those of you who aren't accustomed to the chaos playstyle, and I can tell you right now, you aren't going to enjoy it

Edited by platinumteef
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10 minutes ago, platinumteef said:

am i blind or why was there no mention of removing the ability to hitch HH to carts

 

or are you going to fix the bug that stops the bardings from not reducing speed to animals hitched on vehicles

 

hello

 

do i need to post countless cancerous videos of the meta

 

its going to be a real shocker for those of you who aren't accustomed to the chaos playstyle, and I can tell you right now, you aren't going to enjoy it

Seems that got left out of the notes sorry, you will not be able to hitch or ride hell horses on elevation.

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1 minute ago, Darklords said:

Seems that got left out of the notes sorry, you will not be able to hitch or ride hell horses on elevation.

 

awesome

 

also i can help you with the barding not removing speed bug from hell horses that was posted years ago and nobody could reproduce

 

the key is early stage young hell horses

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Also in regards to concerns about elemental immunity being to strong compared to the rest of the level 9 abilities, its duration has been reduced from 30 minutes to 5 minutes on epic servers.

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so will there be a free path swap or nah

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We need a Pr Team to help the PR team, wut a mess!!!!

 

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After consideration and discussion with those who had sought to cheat the system, dechamping prior to the reset with the regular penalties for dechamping will lead to no further action. 

 

In the end we wanted something that recognises what legitimate champions were losing. It's possible that patch note could have been left off but the idea of attempting to take advantage of it by gaming the system being a zero loss system is not what constitutes fair play. 

 

I'd like to thank AceRifle for raising the issue in the first place. 

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Not to sound combative, yet truly what kind of relations to the player base is it to throw the player who rang the siren under the table like that.  Surely a different wording choice in this regard could have been used as well as no need to either single out players as has not been done before but to also expose who reported which has long been kept in confidence.  Is it just me that seems astounded and confused by this?  the Who , that is involved is immaterial to me and i'd wager other than for politics, immaterial to others also...I thought your job was to bridge the game between player and game staff creating ComUNITY.

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11 minutes ago, Bloodscythe said:

Not to sound combative, yet truly what kind of relations to the player base is it to throw the player who rang the siren under the table like that.  Surely a different wording choice in this regard could have been used as well as no need to either single out players as has not been done before but to also expose who reported which has long been kept in confidence.  Is it just me that seems astounded and confused by this?  the Who , that is involved is immaterial to me and i'd wager other than for politics, immaterial to others also...I thought your job was to bridge the game between player and game staff creating ComUNITY.

AceRifle reported it in this thread, the player who had done it was announced via twitter and on Discord. 

 

On 7/7/2019 at 12:19 PM, AceRifle said:

So I can go champ up right now?

 

On 7/7/2019 at 1:08 PM, Darklords said:

If people are going to champ up to get the 20 free prayer, your going to ruin it for the people I was trying to be nice to and I will be forced to set it back to 50 please don't ruin it for the existing champs.

 

23 hours ago, AceRifle said:

-1 stat too they know better. Will be a warning for others jumping at for advantages.

 

 

None of this was handled in a manner of singling out players, the information was freely available. The whole intention was to make this fair on those who were active champions and playing, no one was exposed, no one was singled out.

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I politely disagree strongly with you.  What i see is a large departure from precedent to make an on the fly decision then embarrass and impune players.  Truly what advantage is it to do this, when at start of elevation all are set to same spot..no gain. If you go back across all the champs since the new journal you'll find few had acted in good faith as champs fulfilling active fighting spirit and many many many without mention nor should be had champed to make the journal quest.  I was not one so i'm at a disadvantage but i don't see the problem.  If you want to then say it is..make a rule , announce the rule in a timely way to give players opportunity to be informed and act appropriately.   What i'm also seeing is something people know better than to do, simply riding a straw man issue feigning offense, making accusation of cheating that results in nothing more than a journal quest completed than many before hand have done with no intention of being a champ and fight for their kingdom de=champing right after or not logging in again.

 

Truly I am without words to understand your thinking here.  The tone of moderation is changing severely into an iron fist at the very time we need heightened customer service delivery..our numbers are plummeting into the abyss Retro..please please think more on these things before taking action well outside any past practice.

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1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

AceRifle reported it in this thread, the player who had done it was announced via twitter and on Discord. 

 

 

 

 

 

None of this was handled in a manner of singling out players, the information was freely available. The whole intention was to make this fair on those who were active champions and playing, no one was exposed, no one was singled out.

You made a punitive and obscure announcement by posting on a thread as a reply that players champing after the valrei international post would be penalized by reseting their faith to 1. Arakiel, a longstanding member of the community who played since the Gold days decided to champ to get his journal entry complete. We had seen the valrei international post that Champs would not loose their faith. Given Arakielx was 5 points away from 70, we didn't think this would be a big deal, so we started sailing. While we were sailing you decided to make this ruling that anyone who champs will have their faith set to 1. An hour later we had champed. Just for your information, it takes over 1 hour to travel from Desertion West to Elevation East.

 

I contacted you and I explained what the deal was. You could had easily said: "Okay Angel, no problem. Just have Arakielx dechamp and everything is good." Everything would had been fine. But you insisted we were abusing the system. We abused what? 5 faith points? When we have 10+ accounts to do our own private sermons. Well, whatever. It then ocurred to Arakiel to dechamp to solve the issue. He was pretty upset at the whole deal and we've decided to not participate on Epic anymore, so whatever. We thought that was that.

 

But no. You went full arrogance and decided to privately message me on discord:

1de844bc5501aa299d67d155c932b27c.png

 

You privately messaged me this. Without me asking. You just up and PM'd me. Wow, what a nice guy! He is forgiving Arakiel for his outrageous exploit to game the system out of ... of... oh thats right... out of nothing! You created a crisis all in your head and decided to punish your loving community for their transgressions. Instead of being understanding, realize it was not done in bad faith, and worked with your players to come to a resolution, you decided to simply use your position to exact punishment. And then you wonder why people leave.

 

Your arrogance knows no bounds, retro. You make an example out of people who love this game. We're pulling out from Epic and most likely the game because of you. YOU specifically. The guy who's job is to keep the community together an engaged. The guy who has always said that he has no power and no say on GM decisions. Yet here you are making policy and delivering punishment to your players. I really hope you are happy of what you've accomplished.

 

You are singlehandedly killing this game dude. You should rethink the way you do business.

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

ok nvm

Edited by Votip

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

After consideration and discussion with those who had sought to cheat the system, dechamping prior to the reset with the regular penalties for dechamping will lead to no further action. 

 

In the end we wanted something that recognises what legitimate champions were losing. It's possible that patch note could have been left off but the idea of attempting to take advantage of it by gaming the system being a zero loss system is not what constitutes fair play. 

 

I'd like to thank AceRifle for raising the issue in the first place. 

So u telling me that gianna did not take advantage of the champ place by champing up as a bl champ 2 or 3 weeks before the reset lol

@Retrograde

Edited by Erin

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