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atazs

Another Release type server

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@Elisha much of what you said i can see your point as valid and tend to agree.  sometimes the problems are a bit more multilayered complex.  I like your posts in general so no need to defend, you're often on point..as a community we've played a while and have strong views about it and have always allowed for the differences and dissent while maintaining agreeable...most times..sometimes that fails miserably. 

 

It would be nice for new players to have some buffer time in some way without being influxed by vets and the superior goods on the market.  Market is diluted for several reasons..rare spam never should have been a thing, there are not enough buyers for sellers, and too many top end toons due to being able to recycle them, ie buy and sell them, to which I myself am guilty.. i see it as a problem as much as i saw use of personal traders as a problem.  lastly you are right in my field of work in urban planning we call it Nimby'ism, not in my back yard.  All change is good til it affects you type thing, or the dad that says he's ok with minorities til his daughter brings such a person home saying they are engaged.  many are fighting to have wurm continue and with that , i think best solutions will eventuate, or hope and want to believe in that. 

 

All aside  I think i found someone that can and will type more than I.  Ayes was a strong contender for some time, as was another whos name is escaping me during the marathon dispute of sotg a good 5 years back.

Edited by Bloodscythe

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1 hour ago, Elisha said:

..

Wurm doesn't not have a problem getting new players, we still get them coming in all the time. Wurm has a retention problem. Every time these these threads come up the focus is always on attracting new players. Need to focus on keeping the ones we get before we worry about getting them in faster.

 

That is not completely true. Wurm has a problem to get new players, and moreover, has the problem not to get the right players who are inclined to stay very often. There are not too many new players on HL, and most of them go away once they learnt how grindy Wurm is. We need new players who are attracted by the concept of Wurm, not just any new players.

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47 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

 

That is not completely true. Wurm has a problem to get new players, and moreover, has the problem not to get the right players who are inclined to stay very often. There are not too many new players on HL, and most of them go away once they learnt how grindy Wurm is. We need new players who are attracted by the concept of Wurm, not just any new players.

Agree. Wurm has not that many new player. I'd rather say wurm has very low players income. What's more, at least 90% of them are going away after 1-2 months, mostly forever.

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1 hour ago, Ekcin said:

 

That is not completely true. Wurm has a problem to get new players, and moreover, has the problem not to get the right players who are inclined to stay very often. There are not too many new players on HL, and most of them go away once they learnt how grindy Wurm is. We need new players who are attracted by the concept of Wurm, not just any new players.

 

Case in point: People who come here for the "economy", as they said themselves earlier, who get dissapointed about its state and leave. This is a reputation Wurm has to get rid of badly, I'm afraid the RMT market is responsible for attracting people who want to game some virtual market for their own gain. I never cared much about 'muh economy', I felt the same slight disappointment finding out about its state because it's a good vector to interact with the playerbase at all, but it just led me to focus on what I want to do for myself and some few people around me in this game, not to cater to some non-existent market. And it made the experience all the better.

Elisha's got a point about retention though, which I think we can all agree on, whatever the actual reasons for leaving the game before it has really started are. Whether there are "many new players", whatever "many" are for a tiny playerbase like Wurm's, is not an expedient measure of the games growth, the amount of players who stuck around after thaz 1-2 month timespan that weeds out so many is. There could be a hundred new players on right now who dabble with the dated UI for an hour and disappear forever; it'd be all but a curious, yet inconsequential population spike on a graph.

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@Ekcin

A quick duckduckgo search of "sandbox crafting mmorpg" shows wurm as the first entry on the second page, and I do agree that if it were higher there may be a slightly higher rate of player influx, as people tend to only read the first page of results.

 

However, your other assumption that wurm is "virtually invisible" is a very hard one to swallow, as WU indirectly advertises WO (huge steam audience, mostly positive review, on sale for <£6 at the moment).

 

So wurm as a game is likely better known than most fringe mmorpgs, which only have a small site and next to no advertising.

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1 hour ago, Etherdrifter said:

@Ekcin

A quick duckduckgo search of "sandbox crafting mmorpg" shows wurm as the first entry on the second page, and I do agree that if it were higher there may be a slightly higher rate of player influx, as people tend to only read the first page of results.

 

However, your other assumption that wurm is "virtually invisible" is a very hard one to swallow, as WU indirectly advertises WO (huge steam audience, mostly positive review, on sale for <£6 at the moment).

 

So wurm as a game is likely better known than most fringe mmorpgs, which only have a small site and next to no advertising.

 

iv been a gamer for a very long time, a member of many many large gaming communities and generally led a life surrounded by gamers and nerds. No one I have EVER spoken to in rl or anywhere online has EVER heard of Wurm (Online or Unlimited).

Also, people "tend" to only ready first page of search results? Most people only read the first half of the first page, the % of people that go on to other pages is tiny. If they dont see what they want on that first page they are far more likely to alter their search term than to go onto the next page of results.

 

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34 minutes ago, CountZero said:

 

I've been a gamer for a very long time, a member of many many large gaming communities and generally led a life surrounded by gamers and nerds. No one I have EVER spoken to in rl or anywhere online has EVER heard of Wurm (Online or Unlimited).

 

 

How many of those wide circles enjoyed wurm when you introduced them; enough to stick around past the 6 month mark?

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On 6/25/2019 at 5:58 PM, Elisha said:

The Release/Pristine concept was failure.

 

On 6/26/2019 at 5:10 AM, Elisha said:

I don't want a new server, that's the whole point. OP wants a new server ala Release/Pristine. My point, that was failure, and fixes nothing.

The content of these two posts pretty well sums up the situation with the Pristine/Release servers (yeah Pristine came first) and why another new "isolated" server along these lines will not accomplish what the OP supposes that it would. Another point to add to this that was not mentioned was the ability of current players to channel their in game funds into P&R through the Epic portals which then gave the current playerbase another advantage in purchase powers for creating new large deeds in prime locations with purchased Traders that they could setup there to then start draining even more silvers from the establishment upkeep of all the new deeds that were created. *waves fondly at Protunia (the original one) wherever you may be* <<-one of these types of advantageous players.

 

Anyway, all this aside, now the discussion has evolved into the direction of the "market" (new players being able to compete with the older players to make money from playing the game). When the focus for playing the game shifts into this direction then certainly older players with both their knowledge of how this so called "market" functions and the types of characters that can take advantage of these functions to the best advantages due to their skill sets are the players that will make the most money from playing the game. So whenever this "market" is mentioned you can bet that this is what these players are talking about even if they try to mask it under different shadings that would attempt to seem benevolent such as drawing new players into the game. If then new players start to play the game with this focus and intention they may very well get discouraged because there is only so much "market" here to go around for these types of players to make money from playing the game.

 

My contention is and has always been that the game is not really about making money from playing it but rather playing it for the enjoyment that it provides. So if this is the intent then the game (Devs) should not focus upon bending (warping?) and shaping the game mechanics with this goal in mind (making money from playing it) but rather focus upon making the game an enjoyable experience to play for the content within it. I do think that they do this to a great extent and all this "market" player draw is just proposed by those players who focus upon making money from playing the game. The curse that the game now has is this "market" ability to make money from playing the game that it can't rid itself of since it is too well ingrained into the whole of the game systems and I think that still the true god of Wurm (Rolf) looks upon as a beneficial aspect of "giving something back" to people who play the game. Yet look at the road down which it has lead us and if your focus is not making money from playing the game you might see the situation differently.

 

Therefore, any proposed solutions that attempt to "level the playing field" for new players in terms of creating equal "market" opportunities I reject as being detrimental to the game both for the fact that they only worsen this situation of playing the game to make money and will not resolve the situation in terms of making more money available for those who want to make money from playing it. When this objective intrudes upon the concept of drawing new players into the game it distorts it into that direction rather than making a game available to them that they will enjoy playing apart from this money making ability. Possibly the surprising idea to some is that many (most?) other mmorpg games do not provide the opportunity to make money from playing them and yet they draw +1,000's of players to them. Their in game markets for player trade are not distorted by this, nor do their Developers need to reduce the abilities of more experienced players for some kind of "equal opportunity" in this respect. The longer that players play those games the stronger they become, justifiably so because of the time they have put into it. This is true within Wurm as well and should not be thought of as something to nerf/reduce for the sake of the "market" (making money from playing the game).

 

Is there some solution then to draw more players into the game? Well I don't know what it is but I know what it is Not. Can you guess? For that matter can you make Wurm into something that it is not, by that I mean a game that appeals to the masses that these other true mmorpg's do so well. Let's face it we are just a quaint little town here where the country mice can dwell and munch contentedly upon their cheese while a few others scurry around gathering the scraps to sell to the other mices who prefer the mixed varieties. The city mice will not find what they desire here unless at heart they are not one of them but a lost soul who has finally found their way to their true home. Then the dance will continue between those who are enjoying the cheese and those who sell off the scraps....

 

Happy Tails

=Ayes=

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On 6/30/2019 at 4:25 PM, Ayes said:

 

My contention is and has always been that the game is not really about making money from playing it but rather playing it for the enjoyment that it provides.

 

My sentiment exactly.

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