Retrograde

Valrei International. 086

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

As for dragons bashing deeds, we expect it to happen about as much as it does now

 

Umm...  Not to be Negative Nellie, but I think you're mistaken on that point.  I think you're forgetting that a large part of dragons not bashing deeds very much currently is because they're penned immediately, as a rule, and are not free to bash deeds.  Those that haven't been found for ages are in remote areas.  I hope you're right, but I also hope you guys are prepared with a solution if it does become a problem.  I would still be a lot happier if you would just make dragons shy away from deeds.

Edited by Amadee

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Retrograde said:

That said the amount of bashing likeliness has been reduced 

 

52 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

As for dragons bashing deeds, we expect it to happen about as much as it does now

 

Which is it then?  Or is current bash chance already "reduced"?

 

I have not so fond GM memories of constantly repairing epic starter deeds because uniques keep being drawn there for safety because some of them never stop chasing and can keep up with rare geared hell horses to the point I was practically begging devs for some update to make them stop bashing starter deeds.

Have also seen other deeds wrecked by uniques wandering over to the deeds for whatever reason.

 

If you think it has to do with just zones/lairs, then you're sorely mistaken because half the times zones don't even matter.  Desertion had a red dragon that was known for being spotted at literally all ends of the map even chasing me on a hell horse for 1/4th the map before i got it to stop chasing by breaking its aggro by confusing it in a mine, and I've dragged giants/dragons hundreds of tiles to lock them in mines away from peoples deeds.  Other people have dragged dragons hundreds (probably thousands tbh) of tiles to bring them to an organized slay spot.  It's a coin toss as to if they are a unique that will stop following you and return to their spawn zone or not.

 

The only reason it's not a widespread issue on freedom now is because they are penned and killed so fast.  Once you get full/smaller freedom servers with all options of living uniques because they aren't found like they are now, I imagine freedomers will start complaining

Edited by MrGARY

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3 hours ago, Finnn said:

PG?
How does making uniques exist as content(for everybody..) change the game for you? explain?

It changes everything to me. 
I've never been so much into "everything for everyone" ideas, no. If everything is for everyone, then there's nothing to pursue on. Nothing. 

What is Wurm to me? First of all it's pretty unique game, because to me it's not a game anymore at all. It's like my own piece of sandbox, with my own lore, with my own story. Place with many people like me, with own stories, own histories and ways. All together we're making a history of Wurm, history of every server. This is the thing, why we all remember old friends here, why we all know same old names, why we all do travels and remembering all old places, how they looked like, who lived here. That's why we all do travels and meets our friends by our ways. Talk with them, checking on their progress... and why we are all meeting at slayings, rifts or other events. And many times we're hoping to see some faces of our dear friends. 

But there is, there always was and still will be some competition between us. Not only on PvP. 

 

Why Wurm was so unique to me? For many years, wurm had some unique, VERY unique stuff, comparing to all other games. For example- that everything here has it's own value. Or on other hand, that everything takes sooo long to achieve. Takes long or require lots and lots and lots of efforts. It had a great economy based on these two related things. It's very easy- you put lots of efforts and you achieve stuff, you gain rewards. 

But what is a reward? Well for many people some seryll or glimmer scraps is a fine reward. I agree, reward is reward- it's great. Some drake/ dragon scraps, still fine loot! But.... is it really... uhm... unique? No. 
What is unique? For example, challenge rewards were unique and creazy stuff. AMAZING Seris knights treasure hunt was an unique achievement. 

For many people, just like me, gathering unique, more and more unique stuff is pretty much everything we love about games, sometimes also real lives. Unique stuff means, that it is not possible for everyone to get. It shouldn't be. Only for the best ones, who are experienced, who put efforts not only in, you know, geting it technically, but also to put efforts in getting knowledge about EVERY possible mechanics/ relations knowledge. Best ones who really commited themselves for something they are achieving- or are known for in Wurm. 


What do we have now?
Economy is dead. I mean, trading is still a thing, but our market is already filled with stuff so much, so we can't even get a decent revenue for putting hours into making our goods. Different game changes also lowered value of many- some time ago hard to get items.
Unique items are becoming either a relicts or common to everyone. That's like spitting on those who reached these items or bought them/ got them anyhow just for the sake of their status. 

Everything becomes easier and faster now, but well at least I' was aware that it will eventually happen, not a big deal. 
So what about most important thing to me? My own history in game? How everything above and way, way more affects it? Well I'm a collector, I'm a man who loves to give my best every single freaking time to achieve something, that others won't be able. Why? Because that's who I am and i love competition i love rarity i love achievements. Do I actually get everything? No, most of the times all the rewards, all the dragons/ legendary mobs/ all unique stuff goes to ones you're probably thinking of right now. Am I angry? NO. Dissapointed? Yes, with myself. Not game, not other people, only myself. Rule is very easy. If someone can do something, i can too, and everyone can too. If we are failing every single time for days/ months/ years, probably we are still doing something worse, slower/ different than those who are winning. Is it their fault or ours? And finally if I keep failing all this time, perhaps.... shocker... maybe I'm not the one who should be rewarded? I personally strongly, very strongly disagree with rewarding: for nothing, for worse results, less commitment. Why? Because if I do nothing, simply i deserve nothing. If I am achieving worse results, then someone is achieving better. If I'm less commited, then someone is commited better. If i know less, someone knows more. Where in all of it i should find myself rewarded? Why? Because of what? Because i try? Only? Meh.

My own story is the story of trying. It is a story fo many fails, probably way more fails than wins. But also SOME wins, but SOME wins better than anyone here could get. Wins that i achieved, beating others or being faster than others, wins that none will repeat. And my story runs forward, I do, I plan, I work, I think about finding and trying to get other stuff like that, to compete with the best- way better than me in Wurm, to giving my best to test myself mostly. To win or fail. Every fail is within my game lore, just like every win, you know. But at least i know I'm trying always on same rules. If I'm failing I'm not trying to change the rules. If they could do that before, then i'd feel bad If I'd get the same on easier rules. 


And now... my story was and still is very unique to me. Story of a lord in south western castle, who survived for so long, achieving something, loosing other things. Story about peasant who started to travel, then nomad who started to trade in great world economy, then who started to think of others, alliances, friends, being so eager to get higher and higher, finally someone who was competing with best, learning from best, befriending best known and beloved people....
But now, or rather in short period of time, everyone will be "equal" in every term. So everyone will be able to make equal, same story. What's left to follow? What's still worth to try? What real reward is worth giving so much? Scale scrap? Random bone? another random scrap that everyone can get just for being around at said hour? What else? Yes, getting the same on changed, easier rules is just worse than giving up. I will feel bad. And if i feel bad doing something, I just don't 


Just like i did feel after rework of Personal Goals. I was the first on Xanadu, about like 12-14 in game- on old rules. That was great feeling. Then they reworked goals and... you know what happend. Even i could easily "win" the game with several alts. 
I know! I know that there were some goals, technically impossible to achieve. How many? 2? 3? And those of course should be fixed. But only these. Rest should stay as it was, making this achievement reachable only for few who really wants it. Do you think, that change of these goals was the only thing that made hundreds of alts "winners"? No. Several people had those unlucky not possible to achieve ones, but rest of people was just too lazy to try for them. 

Same thing is about dragons. Competition with best hunters is actually almost impossible. Almost impossible means- that it's possible. You will fail more than win, sure. Their knowledge, experience, prepared data at all is way better. What stopped you or everyone else from making the same? 

Everything I described is just a part of myself, my own loud thinking and of course part of my own lore in game. Just try to put it in our fantasy, great world of Wurm. Actualy in my story, "great world" is collapsing. Population, economy... alliances, friends... in my lore it mostly memorials. Why? 

Give a lot to everyone, sure. But give something only to few, and make them pay for it a very hard price.

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23 hours ago, Retrograde said:

with a much larger rework planned, although no firm timeframe when as we have Frontier and Epic to work on next. 

so are we officially calling it "Frontier"? just curious because I love the name. and I look forward to seeing some sort of teaser "trailer" or pics or something for what we have to look forward too. 

I have a few ideas on my forum post about some things that might be handy for the frontier.

  

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No, it's a code name, we've seen some ideas based on the code name and I can honestly say most of them are incredibly inaccurate, others just being merely inaccurate. 

 

Your ideas look cool for a travelling campsite though, I do enjoy a good roam 🚂

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re: uniques

always been drama around them, always will. if you make it harder to hunt them, the same ppl who

hunt them now will still hunt them, and the people who dont, will even less.

So my suggestion:

make uniques spawn 5 times more often, with 20 percent the amount of loot they do now.

And make the valuable loot drop randomly to a premium account in local preferably one who participated.

And last they shouldnt be able to be penned.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
 

 

 

 

 

"Legendary problems

The next update is scheduled for the 27th of June, and has a specific change planned for it. With this update we'll be removing the ability for Legendary creatures to be located via any location method, GetInfo, Reveal creatures (cast and rune) and pendulums will no longer be able to find Legendary creatures. In addition, we will be changing the Legendary creature spawn requirements to be able to spawn anywhere (with a buffer around deeds). This is a short term solution to come in this update, with a much larger rework planned, although no firm timeframe when as we have Frontier and Epic to work on next.  "

 

 

Abour Effing time, we have been begging for an end to the toxic unique dramas for years and years, please dont screw it up this time.

Edited by Scottfree2

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, VirusMD said:

Less Scale, and Hide.

 

4 hours ago, Griffith said:

make uniques spawn 5 times more often, with 20 percent the amount of loot they do now.

 

I'm really not sure that reducing the amount of scale/hide would solve anything. I don't see any of the previous reductions in amount dropped having had a positive effect.

 

Some years ago I was at a drake slaying with only nine characters, local was empty, using the size of the hide scrap from that kill and some simple math it would appear that it takes the hide from between 2 and 3 drakes to make a compete set of armour (I very much hope that figure is wrong, but...). Is it any surprise that there is drama? Over the years the amounts of scale/hide dropped has been repeatedly reduced... I remember the comments about how many sets of armour the leather from a single drake gave...

 

Couple this with the journal goals that require equipping a set of drake and scale... People can do the maths and realise there is zero chance of making either, if they are not part of small group that actively hunts. Leaving the only option to either have a friend who trust them enough to lend a drake/scale set to wear for a few seconds to get the achievement, or they are prepared to spend money/silver to buy a set.

Edited by Wulfmaer

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Is the issue even the scale/hide?

To me the issue seems to be the other stuff.

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Posted (edited)

The underlying issue most likely is MONEY, and anything that generates it is all part of the mix.

Edited by Wulfmaer

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Posted (edited)

It will be a huge mistake if impossible to locate Uniques are still designed to destroy structures and fences on deed.

 

What happens when a player with prized animals like champ dogs or champ deer is away from their deed and a unique happens to spawn closeby that procedes to rampage their deed and as a result sets all their animals free?   It has happened before.

Edited by madnezz

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7 hours ago, Wulfmaer said:

 

 

I'm really not sure that reducing the amount of scale/hide would solve anything. I don't see any of the previous reductions in amount dropped having had a positive effect.

 

Some years ago I was at a drake slaying with only nine characters, local was empty, using the size of the hide scrap from that kill and some simple math it would appear that it takes the hide from between 2 and 3 drakes to make a compete set of armour (I very much hope that figure is wrong, but...). Is it any surprise that there is drama? Over the years the amounts of scale/hide dropped has been repeatedly reduced... I remember the comments about how many sets of armour the leather from a single drake gave...

 

Couple this with the journal goals that require equipping a set of drake and scale... People can do the maths and realise there is zero chance of making either, if they are not part of small group that actively hunts. Leaving the only option to either have a friend who trust them enough to lend a drake/scale set to wear for a few seconds to get the achievement, or they are prepared to spend money/silver to buy a set.

 

since you quoted me ill try to clarify. i didnt say the amount should be reduced overall, more uniques to hunt

with the same overall amount of loot.

 

7 hours ago, Wulfmaer said:
12 hours ago, Griffith said:

make uniques spawn 5 times more often, with 20 percent the amount of loot they do now.

 

 

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3 hours ago, madnezz said:

It will be a huge mistake if impossible to locate Uniques are still designed to destroy structures and fences on deed.

 

What happens when a player with prized animals like champ dogs or champ deer is away from their deed and a unique happens to spawn closeby that procedes to rampage their deed and as a result sets all their animals free?   It has happened before.

It's PVE, not a building simulator.. the E needs to strike back at some point :) (more need for bricks in the market i guess)

 

Doesn't matter what is changed with uniques, there will always be at least two types of players, the ones that organize themselves and understand the mechanics of the spawns and how to find, pen and kill them, and the second group that will always complain about the first group.

This is a sandbox, and if someone's enjoyment is to run around the map all day looking for uniques then the player that also likes to smith, breed horses or whatever will have a disadvantage in finding them.

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1 hour ago, faty said:

It's PVE, not a building simulator.. the E needs to strike back at some point :) (more need for bricks in the market i guess)

 

This was tried on epic with scenario endings, shockingly it turns out people did not like the game destroying their deeds.  If mobs bashing deeds is supported to improve the market and not actually a joke, that's pretty sad

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Alkhadias said:

 

I don't want to quote any part of what you wrote as it is as good as it is and describes how I play Wurm and what is important to me. I fail in many aspects of the game and I'm angry about it - angry about myself that I don't have enough experience yet. BUT that drives forward. 

Look at rifts: they are so very boring like hell, the only reason I show up again is the new journal - which I see less interesting than the old PG system having everyone the same goals and forcing to put tremendous work to areas you don't enjoy a bit (as they cover so wide range of different aspects of the game you need to be a real jack-of-it-all to accomplish the journal).  Journal shapes players and toons to a uniformized mass and is going too close to the quest system why I avoid games.

Wurm is mainly about competition for me - competition against other players and the world itself.

I'm quite scared about the plans of unique reworks, if they will be "riftized" that will take away all the fun from them. The big thing in uniques for me is the thrill of search, to be more lucky or faster than others. So little content is about that nowadays in Wurm. In my view competition should be increased not decreased. Sure not everyone likes it, but this is why a sandbox is great, you can play it the way you like it. No one ever will excel in all aspects and that is more than normal and expected.

Edited by Jaz

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2 hours ago, faty said:

It's PVE, not a building simulator..

 

I think engineering and terraforming are the best of Wurm, and randomly destroying what players build is a really bad idea. The effort required to gather, engineer, and build -is- PvE, regardless of whether the E fights or not.

 

Albion Online doesn't have anything like the engineering and terraforming possibilities of Wurm, but what you do build on your personal island won't ever decay or be destroyed, and I really, really, REALLY like that. :) I can leave Albion, come back a year later to try out a shiny new update, and everything I did will still be there.

 

I find that respectful of my time and effort, and that builds loyalty.

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41 minutes ago, Jaz said:

I don't want to quote any part of what you wrote as it is as good as it is and describes how I play Wurm and what is important to me. I fail in many aspects of the game and I'm angry about it - angry about myself that I don't have enough experience yet. BUT that drives forward. 

Look at rifts: they are so very boring like hell, the only reason I show up again is the new journal - which I see less interesting than the old PG system having everyone the same goals and forcing to put tremendous work to areas you don't enjoy a bit (as they cover so wide range of different aspects of the game you need to be a real jack-of-it-all to accomplish the journal).  Journal shapes players and toons to a uniformized mass and is going too close to the quest system why I avoid games.

Wurm is mainly about competition for me - competition against other players and the world itself.

I'm quite scared about the plans of unique reworks, if they will be "riftized" that will take away all the fun from them. The big thing in uniques for me is the thrill of search, to be more lucky or faster than others. So little content is about that nowadays in Wurm. In my view competition should be increased not decreased. Sure not everyone likes it, but this is why a sandbox is great, you can play it the way you like it. No one ever will excel in all aspects and that is more than normal and expected.

Yeah, you got my point. Rifts are boring. You don't have to look for them, you miss this... thrill of unknown variable. And you aways know what you will get of it- not much. The only thing that is good about Rifts is that people are gathering together. 

I mean, Rifts are fine... if we have our uniques like now. But making uniques like Rifts? Meh. Event of randomness. 

I know that in most games, everything is for everyone pretty much easily achievable. But Wurm never been like other games. Was unique for many reasons. Reasons we're effectively losing over time. 
Perhaps, for some people is improving, sure, but if we will remove everything that was unique, we'll lose Wurm's spirit. We'll get just... more of the same- sad thing is that Wurm is no competition for "more of the same" games. 

Perhaps removing unique beasts and all items related to them would be a better move than reworking them. 

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11 hours ago, Wulfmaer said:

I'm

 

12 hours ago, Wulfmaer said:

only

 

12 hours ago, Wulfmaer said:

2

 

12 hours ago, Wulfmaer said:

years

 

@WulfmaerLook i can misquote your statements too and make them seem like something else, If you want to pick it apart start with the WHOLE list of changes instead of just one of many, instead of clipping four words from 1 part of one line and leaving out the rest is intentially misleading, and you used 2 of us to try and do it. Smooth, i'm sure no one noticed, oh wait we did....

 

After reading most of these suggestions many people area basically all suggesting the same thing in one form or another (at least the ones for the changing the system) as did several of the recent posts suggestion changes to the abused system. My concept is about pushing them back into the mainstream, allowing more people access to the events, while trying to reduce some of the abuse that will inevitable come with it. How is this anything but a good things for the journal goals your so keep to point out? More people with scraps, means more sellers, means more fluidity in the market, yes it will affect prices, but its pretty overpriced anyway if you ask me. If the goal with these changes is to bring them back to more players witch would seem obvious by now. Then its the inevitable truth of the matter anyway. There simply worth too much and have been "abused" for so long certain people feel entitled to it. Yes i am in one of those groups and i do benefit from them quite often, but i also often voice my disagreement with the system on a whole. The fact of the matter is nothing they could change would stop me or many others from the hunt, many of us really enjoy it, its a team effort, group strategy, and in the end that's what most of us are here for. The social aspect.

 

 

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I am still unsure what to think about the whole affair.

 

To start: I know nearly nothing about uniques other than experiences from public slayings, and what I read about, in this thread in particular. And this topic is hardly pressing for me.

 

As to the public slayings, I loved each single of them, always tried to hit the unique, though the best I got was ".. takes no real damage .." at the unique, mostly missed or glanced. And, ok, proudly sent them sprawling a couple of times 😁 that was fun. As to the loot: I calculated that at the pace of my participations, and given I could barter hides and scales freely, it would take me some 6 to ten years towards a full set of one of them, either drake or scale.  Not that that bothered me at all. I loved blood for mining and forestry imbues in particular (did not use them yet). And I did not bring armies of alts, but some new players from our alliance who enjoyed the event too.

 

I am bit sad therefore when OR announces to stop or have stopped organizing public slayings. Thanks a lot for every single of them though, I loved them and am grateful, would be a shame not to have those in the future.

 

I can't appraise how hard spotting was or will be without pendulums and announcements, and possibly, randomized spawn times, the latter, a random(+-48hrs) spawn or so after announcing "rumours", might be more effective and interesting than just hiding information. And spotting a dragon would always be easier than e.g. a goblin leader. Not being able to pen them would also make it impossible to set dates for slaying, which would insofar answer the question about the future of public slaying events, no matter how the recent hunting teams decide.

 

A word about rifts: I like them, and I feel a lot of the comments about them being boring fairly arrogant. Among the most pleasant rift fights I participated were those where very experienced players took the lead, organized the infrastructure etc., and the whole thing was done in an efficient and well organized way (thanks Azael, and also Tilda to name some) . The boredom may be in the eyes of those who feel themselves above such activities.

 

I agree though that there should be challenges for long term players, and just removing such a challenge will not help, at least something to replace it should be thought about.

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On 6/21/2019 at 4:39 AM, Retrograde said:

With this update we'll be removing the ability for Legendary creatures to be located via any location method, GetInfo, Reveal creatures (cast and rune) and pendulums will no longer be able to find Legendary creatures. In addition, we will be changing the Legendary creature spawn requirements to be able to spawn anywhere (with a buffer around deeds)

 

I can't say I like this change, in fact I have to say I don't like it. I believe it's an example of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. To counteract a tactic certain hunting groups are currently using we are changing the mechanic in a way that effects all players (even those not part of the mentioned groups). One could even make the point that it effects these legitimate unique hunters even more than the groups with the strategically placed alts with pendulums.

 

I believe there would be better methods available, I urge you to reconsider.

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I still recall often arguing in Twitch chats with people who called private slay groups toxic even though they refused to search at all for varied excuses that often changed.

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Posted (edited)

With the alarms gone I'd suggest to reconsider the ban of Reveal and Get info. 

No notifications solves the penned-within-the-hour issue in itself. Keep the ban of pendulums, Reveal and Get info have their natural balances.

Edited by Jaz

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removing server announcement is a mistake tbh, why don't you poll something like that first. 

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4 hours ago, Niki said:

removing server announcement is a mistake tbh, why don't you poll something like that first. 

why?
fishing poll says more than half of who answered dont like fishing system and never changed back

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As for uniques.

 

When unique enter the deed, it should teleport out to the random part of the server (of course not to other deed).

 

For some time, I was almost only player actively playing on Desertion (day by day). On the same given time, I had red dragon hatchling anchored somwere near my deed, so I had to deal with it each day for few months.

 

For example, I logged in on my top spire, and I didn't knew that dragon is already in aggro range, but down below, following me.

When I moved on my bridges, between the spires, dragon keep damaging each wall/fence on it's way, trying to follow me.

 

Or when it cought me down below, I had to run to my mine entrance, but noticed that when I ride through my underground corridor deep into deed, dragon follows the same corresponding patch, but on the surface, instead waiting at the entrance mine door.

If I went deep enough, so on the surface it hit some walls/fences, ofc it started to destroy them.

 

 

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