Retrograde

Valrei International. 086

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11 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Legendary problems

The next update is scheduled for the 27th of June, and has a specific change planned for it. With this update we'll be removing the ability for Legendary creatures to be located via any location method, GetInfo, Reveal creatures (cast and rune) and pendulums will no longer be able to find Legendary creatures. In addition, we will be changing the Legendary creature spawn requirements to be able to spawn anywhere (with a buffer around deeds). This is a short term solution to come in this update, with a much larger rework planned, although no firm time frame when as we have Frontier and Epic to work on next.

 

Thank you for listening 💜 a nice start to solving the unique issues.

 

Peace !

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And how do You imagine getting rid of private groups? Somehow everyone is fine that the private group invests time to search, time to pen and resources to deed it, but you want the slayings to be public? Do You often cook fancy dinners at home and invite random people to eat it, who you hear only nagging they dont get nice food, but dont actually do anything to earn it? You only say private groups are the problem. Have you considered that, maybe, the lazy community who claims they deserve something they do nothing to earn it, is the problem?

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3 minutes ago, Karidwen said:

And how do You imagine getting rid of private groups? Somehow everyone is fine that the private group invests time to search, time to pen and resources to deed it, but you want the slayings to be public? Do You often cook fancy dinners at home and invite random people to eat it, who you hear only nagging they dont get nice food, but dont actually do anything to earn it? You only say private groups are the problem. Have you considered that, maybe, the lazy community who claims they deserve something they do nothing to earn it, is the problem?

That is typical for any part of life. There will always be those who take the easiest route (reasons vary, lazyness can be one of them, greed maybe good second. I could name lot of other things too, but let's just leave it there.)

Unfortunately we can't fix life and we should not stop things just because someone else might benefit if we drudge on.

I do not like people just free-riding on other people's hard work, but since we can't fix it is not the reason to stop.

 

I'll quote my wife: "You can design any perfect system, and ruin it by adding people into it."

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

How does that change a dragon aggroing you and chasing you into a deed and then bashing, or someone luring it into a deed to deliberately bash it, or it camps you when you spawn because it won't move because it sees you in the respawn menu as a target on the tile you died and will sit there aggrod on your corpse and instantly sprint at you wherever you spawn nearby, endlessly dunking you as soon as you spawn until someone can come lure it away? uniques bashing deeds isn't really that big of a concern unless someone deliberately leads them to it or you're super unlucky, there's much bigger problems than a couple of walls getting knocked down that comes with a unique in the deed uninvited

 

I see this part as the most important part tbh.  I find it more than a bit disturbing. 

 

@RetrogradeJust how big of a buffer are you guys talking about? I understand you said this is some sort of temp solution while you work on other things, but no offense intended, your track record on "temp fixes" leads me to believe this could go on for years.  I think I would be much happier with some kind of mechanic that will make a unique avoid deeds altogether.  Maybe lose interest and wander off if they come to a deed when following someone.  I have a feeling this could become a problem, especially on smaller servers.  I don't fancy logging in and finding a dragon on my deed bashing his little heart out the minute I'm seen in my house, either because he wandered in or because he was chasing some hapless player who happened to run across my deed looking for safety (or worse, intentionally).

Edited by Amadee

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41 minutes ago, Karidwen said:

And how do You imagine getting rid of private groups? Somehow everyone is fine that the private group invests time to search, time to pen and resources to deed it, but you want the slayings to be public? Do You often cook fancy dinners at home and invite random people to eat it, who you hear only nagging they dont get nice food, but dont actually do anything to earn it? You only say private groups are the problem. Have you considered that, maybe, the lazy community who claims they deserve something they do nothing to earn it, is the problem?

 

Not sure if this was adressed to me or to another post, but you  think the current system is fair?

I'm not a suporter of a private hunting group, because imho Uniques are out  there to be slain by the players who want to do that; not by a small group of people.

 

However, I'm most certainly not a fan of current system, in which a small group of people have all the expenses and do the fighting, and a large group of people getting a reward for just standing in local. It's because that, lots of Unique hunts are done in private groups, not because of "the community being ungrateful".

 

 

Imagine all the nice roads, tunnels and bridges we got at our servers are being locked up with Toll booth's, simply because one or two players build them, spend money on resources, and deeds and now want to get paid for their labour by other players. I'm pretty certain it won't take long before flame wars will start at both the Kingdom chat and forum about that. Yet, for some people that same idea is completely valid as an excuse for penning an unique? Well in that case a lot of Xan players should start paying me for the work I've done at highways, tunnels and bridges at that server. Considering all that work has cost me at least 30 silver or more and I've never seen a penny of it in return. Just some posts of grateful players...... And I'm pretty certain that goes as well for several other Xan players who've been doing great community work too.

 

As for people whining; there are always people whining. If one of the Dev's decides we're going to have frozen lakes during winter, people are whining that they can't sail. But when it's removed, people whine that having frozen lakes was fun, since we could ride our cart across the lakes for a change, instead around it. Even right now, we got ppl whining about winters being too short, too long, too bright and whatever. So whatever happens, whiners are gonna whine.

 

So question remains: are we keeping the current system in which everyone in local gets a prize, no matter if (s)he has been fighting or not and thus more or less keeping the private hunting groups system up;

 

or

 

are rewards from slaying Uniques - and rift monsters - given to those who're actually fighting the damn thing(s)?

 

I know what I prefer. How 'bout you?

 

@Nestangol: If a player is prepared to risk the death of his main and 2 alts, simply because (s)he has them fighting at a slaying, I'd say, let them keep the rewards.

It may not be fair to the other slayers, but at least that player has been fighting with all 3 chars, risking them to die if (s)he didn't pay attention; which imho deserves more of a reward, as just fighting with one char and having 2 others standing in local to "harvest" the reward.

 

My point is, give the rewards to those who're willing to take the risk to fight the Unique. And if that's a player using more fighting alts, well, so be it. At least that player took the risk.

 

Thorin :)

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Good start on Uniques.  I agree with others.  No server announcements, No twitter.  No way of finding them other than eyesight AND we should have an occasional unique sound, if within 20 tiles or so - probably their special attack sound as they kill other critters they encounter.

 

To keep them from being lost in the wilds for years at a time (Xanadu), they should have a "wanderlust" code that makes them walk around randomly.  If they bump into a deed perim, they bounce off like pinball machines and off in another direction.  I don't want them hitting a deed, where a templar can identify one.  Their code should prevent them from ever coming in contact with a deed, OR going underground.

 

Some servers are bigger than others.  The amount they wander each day should be directly proportional to the size of the server.  NO TELEPORTING.  If they are discovered by someone, that someone should be able to rally friends to come help and know it is still somewhere in the area, when the friends arrive.

 

Uniques can't be penned.  If someone builds a structure that completely encloses them, they do a beastly stomp that instantly destroys all walls, fences and ceilings of the enclosure.  Or, maybe they just walk through.  In other words, they can never be captured again.  You have to be lucky to find one and rally support to go hunt it - not when it is convenient, but right now.

 

Change the rewards.  First person that hits it and draws blood (and is prem) gets the top reward, even if they aren't online when it goes down.  Everyone that participates in the battle and draws blood, gets equal rewards.  Maybe double for the killing blow.

 

Initial and participation rewards should not be so valuable that looking for uniques is a profitable job.  Take the high value out for goodness sake.

 

--------------

Shadows look awesome!

 

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12 minutes ago, Thorinoakshield said:

 

Not sure if this was adressed to me or to another post, but you  think the current system is fair?

I'm not a suporter of a private hunting group, because imho Uniques are out  there to be slain by the players who want to do that; not by a small group of people.

 

However, I'm most certainly not a fan of current system, in which a small group of people have all the expenses and do the fighting, and a large group of people getting a reward for just standing in local. It's because that, lots of Unique hunts are done in private groups, not because of "the community being ungrateful".

 

 

Imagine all the nice roads, tunnels and bridges we got at our servers are being locked up with Toll booth's, simply because one or two players build them, spend money on resources, and deeds and now want to get paid for their labour by other players. I'm pretty certain it won't take long before flame wars will start at both the Kingdom chat and forum about that. Yet, for some people that same idea is completely valid as an excuse for penning an unique? Well in that case a lot of Xan players should start paying me for the work I've done at highways, tunnels and bridges at that server. Considering all that work has cost me at least 30 silver or more and I've never seen a penny of it in return. Just some posts of grateful players...... And I'm pretty certain that goes as well for several other Xan players who've been doing great community work too.

 

As for people whining; there are always people whining. If one of the Dev's decides we're going to have frozen lakes during winter, people are whining that they can't sail. But when it's removed, people whine that having frozen lakes was fun, since we could ride our cart across the lakes for a change, instead around it. Even right now, we got ppl whining about winters being too short, too long, too bright and whatever. So whatever happens, whiners are gonna whine.

 

So question remains: are we keeping the current system in which everyone in local gets a prize, no matter if (s)he has been fighting or not and thus more or less keeping the private hunting groups system up;

 

or

 

are rewards from slaying Uniques - and rift monsters - given to those who're actually fighting the damn thing(s)?

 

I know what I prefer. How 'bout you?

 

@Nestangol: If a player is prepared to risk the death of his main and 2 alts, simply because (s)he has them fighting at a slaying, I'd say, let them keep the rewards.

It may not be fair to the other slayers, but at least that player has been fighting with all 3 chars, risking them to die if (s)he didn't pay attention; which imho deserves more of a reward, as just fighting with one char and having 2 others standing in local to "harvest" the reward.

 

My point is, give the rewards to those who're willing to take the risk to fight the Unique. And if that's a player using more fighting alts, well, so be it. At least that player took the risk.

 

Thorin :)

For the first part, I know and agree (I made West Hammer Lake Canals for the community and never expected or received any silvers for them. As side note, those are still work-in-progress. I will ask for heritage site once I've polished them, but don't expect that in less than 2 years, I have other projects in front since those canals are quite passable for the purpose, just ugly). Then again things were made for community. Community can love them or hate them. It's just how it is. Most people don't even think of telling you how much it means, or don't even know it was you who made stuff. That doesn't mean they don't appreciate, they just don't know who to thank. For me when I saw so many people travelling through the canals, few people told me they would not have settled where they are without them etc. That was the reason for making it and reward enough.

 

And for what it is worth, I have enjoyed your projects Thorin (Fraggle rock canal especially) and you have my deepest gratitude. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

And the question? to me: I agree that reward for uniques should go more towards ones who contribute or invest at least something to slaying. Just saying it is not that hard or dangerous. No matter how you look at it, when there is plenty of people to slay unique, individual risk is minimal (unless you pen it or tank and of course the one who penned it paid some silver unlike everyone else). So even with requirement of hitting unique there would still be plenty of alts getting reward for almost no risk or invest just swinging around. I don't have proposition for better system, but we certainly need one. So my nomination for next Wurm-Nobel goes for one that can get solution for making uniques more public and rewards more fair. (The award will probably be given in 2029 for best attempt so far.)

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If you removed aggro from uniques, I'd be happy. Would give newbies on Epic a much better chance.

 

Would also make the uniques harder to find, of course. :)

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So will this lead to the old uniques that have been around for years finally being respawned?

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Posted (edited)

I think that legendary rework, will be the final step to get me out of Wurm after so many years. Well done. 

 

Was great to knew you all. 

Edited by Alkhadias

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When you add in a big money making opportunity into a game that allows you to make in effect real life money from playing it you have the current situation of these "Uniques" within Wurm where making these profits is the primary motivating factor. This is not really that hard to resolve if the intent is to do so.

 

The idea is to either remove some of these items from Uniques or reduce their value to a similar basis of other player created items. Take for instance Drake and Dragon Scale armor. Players should be able to create armors of equal stats from the commonly available mined ores. Then these Unique armors would be of equal desirability to player created ones, only preferred because of their different design and status of victorious fighting.

 

Take all the "Bones" off of them and distribute them through the common activities of game play. Bloods they could keep since they are not big money ticket items.

 

By these few steps Unique "hunting" is reduced to the supposed "challenge" that some others claim is their reason for pursuing and fighting them. Those who actually just enjoy the activity for its own sake of fighting these mobs then still have the same opportunity to do so.

 

While you're at it ship all these "Uniques" off to this mysterious Frontier where they can freely wreak their havoc and not destroy current deeds on all the other servers that players have put most of their time in the game into creating, improving and maintaining over all these many years. This is the heart of the game and not these money making mobs which profits have gladly been harvested and vested interests protected all these years.

 

Not at all surprising that when you offer this opportunity to make some extra bucks that some will make it their focus to take advantage of. So the fault is yours (Devs) for offering up these easy cash *Cowies* as well as those who rush to slaughter them to line their pockets. The least you can do is attempt to protect the interests of those who have no desire to participate within it. I think each player can determine into which category they fit, as well as getting a good idea of others. I don't see these few steps mentioned in the OP as having much positive effect resolve the current situation.

 

Perhaps in the end keep in mind that the game is about creation and not destruction, as is evidenced by the lands transformed by caring players hands. Well, fingertips really...

 

=Ayes=

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A few tears, expected more, maybe still in shock. Lol. Well said Ayes, I agree with all points, please ship them off and make pve great again.

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Posted (edited)

Even as one of the so called 1%'ers of the unique hunting groups I would fully support changes to the system, under the design to bring these fights more into the general community. For some time i've been thinking of some changes to the system, ive considered posting them many times but really just didn't want to deal with the army of PM's from folks who would hate the change.

 

I would love to see:

1. Uniques cannot be penned at all, they should be able to break out of ANY enclosure at all. Deeds, mines, blocked entrances, reinforcements whatever. None of it should stop a unique from escaping. Weather its just breaking down enclosures or teleporting out of them. Should not be able to be captured in any form at all.

2. Much more random spawn locations, with a MUCH larger area of wandering for them. No more tying them to the "hot spots." This is just too predicable.

3. Reduced Loot. Less Scale, and Hide. Tomes, Bones, Skulls should be awarded randomly similar to the way loot is distributed at a rift. No changes to blood. The only part of the dragon that should be controllable is the location of the corpse. Loot except bloods, should be based on combat involvement, IE must land a hit or two etc. This would more or less eliminate a slew of alts showing up for hide/scale bits unless they have put some sufficient effort into said characters first.

4. Eliminate the way to predictable 2 weeks between spawns. Maybe even increase the spawning rate to balance out the reduction in loot.

5. Reduce the difficulty of the fight, so that lower skills players can get in on the action more.

6. POSSIBLE random Rift Dragons perhaps right before the closure of the rift, maybe even instead of the rift master.

I also really like the idea of ALL forms of notification removed, No event log, no twitter, no nothing. No one knows its lurking in the wild until someones shows up on the death tab from it, or its reported by someone who actually saw it.

 

Changes like this for example would force the events back into the mainstream, create much more improvised encounters, the formation if instant parties mostly made of local residents. They should not be able to spawn on deeds of course, or break into them, but breaking out of enclosures should totally be in there abilities. This would also likely lead to MORE scale/hide available on the markets, as there will be significantly more folks not hoarding it, pieces from folks not interested in making a set would be sold etc. The person who finds it has no more claim to the loot then anyone who helps with the slaying, there is no more investment needed in a deed, shakers, fencing, etc.

 

But this is just my 2 iron on the matter, and it appears there are some major changes in the works. I hope to see a well balanced new system in a couple months that everyone can be proud of and participate in.

 

 - VirusMD

 

Edited by VirusMD
spellerrying

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Nice to see some effort being put into uniques, it'll be interesting seeing what changes are brought in going forward - I'm sure there's a lot of things to carefully consider.

 

As others have said, pendulums/ runes allow them to be found far too easily and take a lot of the fun out of it for a lot of people so this is absolutely a change I can get behind. Since getinfo can only be used once a day and covers a limited area I don't really see the point of this change though, especially since finding uniques only really became (easy) an issue after the priest update/ pendulums.

 

I'd love to see a return of the many times I accidentally found a unique by running into it and then running the opposite way shouting for my friends to save my ass, or the hours spent searching the whole server for it with friends. Proper community spirit and involvement with them. Because right now it's so easy that, I know they spawn either in the middle of the night for me, or while I'm at work and they'll be found and penned before I even log in so I don't even try anymore.

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2 things..

 

Invite who/what/how?

 

uniques.. what's planned for them in long term - raid/rift-like events, or they are just going to be gimped and farmed by relatively same 10 names over and over.. driving the drama into another set of 2-3-5 more years of the same nonsense..

I'm kind of.... CURIOUS... as you WANT US to all wear drake and scale now(for the last journal goals).. but just 5-20 people are farming it all and ............................................................ rest of the subscriber community.

 

In kind of.. similar undoable situation are the rifts and there were no other words than a 'promise' that it's going to be checked/discussed if anything could be done for that goal/rift machanic.

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Really? A "w"? 

 

I just feel like this isn't your best work.

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Alkhadias said:

I think that legendary rework, will be the final step to get me out of Wurm after so many years. Well done. 

 

Was great to knew you all. 

Are you 'serious'?

You think 5 people running around using 1 item cap casted.. deserve LITERALLY whole limited resource to make the best armor in the game?(ridiCulous)

 

Why are we all other playing and paying for entertainment than? If we have nothing fun to do.. why are we around at all?

- oh, oh.. 'we are lazy?' was that it? Maybe we have jobs an real life... at times and can't be around for 24 hours.. and maybe.. just maybe.. sometimes we aren't able to go look for dArgons at 2-4-6AM or asap we get back from school/work/whatever-else?

Neither uniques or rifts let you plan these events.. or to pick your own time to do them, or with who.

Something that often is a lot more flexible and not at all that rare in many other games.

Not to mention.. being in the state all are even after spending 5+ years in the game..

 

Don't give us easy, give us doable

 

Metagaming with twitter alerts, or server notices(easy to leave an alt on each server and to read logs for events to get a message when it happens..) is not fair gameplay, most of the population does not do that, most of the population have not thinked about that, most of the population have not done that.

Normal spawns near deeds are just going to make new-ish players PM same people who already pen them for priv slayings and same wheel will be rolling in similar direction.

That is why I was curious what the long term solution for this was, been wondering if there were any plans for these in the past few months... 2-4 months ago.. we had ~8 posts about uniques and suggestions to change the way they work.. 6-8 simultaneous threads asking for a change.

Edited by Finnn

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Uniques should check every few hours to see if they are underground and, if true, then randomly respawn elsewhere on the map above ground.

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23 minutes ago, Finnn said:

Are you 'serious'?

You think 5 people running around using 1 item cap casted.. deserve LITERALLY whole limited resource to make the best armor in the game?(ridiCulous)

 

Why are we all other playing and paying for entertainment than? If we have nothing fun to do.. why are we around at all?

- oh, oh.. 'we are lazy?' was that it? Maybe we have jobs an real life... at times and can't be around for 24 hours.. and maybe.. just maybe.. sometimes we aren't able to go look for dArgons at 2-4-6AM or asap we get back from school/work/whatever-else?

Neither uniques or rifts let you plan these events.. or to pick your own time to do them, or with who.

Something that often is a lot more flexible and not at all that rare in many other games.

Not to mention.. being in the state all are even after spending 5+ years in the game..

 

Don't give us easy, give us doable

 

Metagaming with twitter alerts, or server notices(easy to leave an alt on each server and to read logs for events to get a message when it happens..) is not fair gameplay, most of the population does not do that, most of the population have not thinked about that, most of the population have not done that.

Normal spawns near deeds are just going to make new-ish players PM same people who already pen them for priv slayings and same wheel will be rolling in similar direction.

That is why I was curious what the long term solution for this was, been wondering if there were any plans for these in the past few months... 2-4 months ago.. we had ~8 pots about uniques and suggestions to change the way they work.. 6-8 simultaneous threads asking for a change.

Yes, I'm serious. Of course I'll wait to see what these changes are going to look like. But if they change it in a way i think they will, like most of things similar to that since PG rework, then I'm out. I'll just finish all my deeds for the sake of it, because I want to see them done finally. Then most likely I'll be done with it too. 

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26 minutes ago, Alkhadias said:

Yes, I'm serious. Of course I'll wait to see what these changes are going to look like. But if they change it in a way i think they will, like most of things similar to that since PG rework, then I'm out. I'll just finish all my deeds for the sake of it, because I want to see them done finally. Then most likely I'll be done with it too. 

PG?
How does making uniques exist as content(for everybody..) change the game for you? explain?

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Very difficult to please everyone with the unique change. To be honest i thought alot about the system over the last 2 months and couldnt come up with a perfect solution. I think it is a good start with the stuff they came up with now. My hope is that whatever impact it will have that it brings the community (when it comes to uniques) in a direction to work together again other then driving it more and more apart. Looking foward to the next few months in wurm whatever changes might come. See you ingame o/

 

 

Warjack

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My two cents:

 

I do not blame groups for doing what is to their benefit and becoming super efficient at what they do. A monopoly is a just consequence of the mechanics.  Public slayings, as stated, are damaging and many people are ungrateful.

 

That being said, the mechanics do need to be adjusted.

 

I would propose: (And these may be similar to other suggestions)

 

1: Make it so that there is no way to see or be alerted to a legendary, except by site.

2: Make it so that a legendary is completely incapable of being penned.  (Especially a dragon) There presence should be a server wide alert, disaster scale occurrence. Any damage to a deed should be compensated in the loot mechanics. 

3: Don't want the same 10 people fighting? Great! Neither do I! Make it so dragons are so powerful there is a need to bring far more than 10 people.  

4: Roll the loot according to damage caused with a small nod to damage received.

 

:P

 

 

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I don't think people realize not every server especially pvp can get gigantic groups of people to kill super buffed dragons to "encourage" more public slays.  All it does is encourage alts with huge axes, and as someone that had to kill uniques on epic with 2 people total and a buncha alts, lemme tell you that is a real as sliced bread scenario.

 

I also don't think people realize that rift style rewards encourages private slays.  Why would you spend your time/effort/whatever finding, penning, organizing etc when some randoms can get all the rewards?  You can't have rewards that favor no one when the effort required to kill it is given by only a select person/people.  You'd have to have uniques spawn like rifts with beams at set times so everyone can come without putting in any effort, but then uniques aren't special in any way after that

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"Back in the day" (TM)

 

A dragon was something to be feared. It was not a jucy pile of loot to be had.

 

I am suggesting it becomes an absolute nasty pile of death stacked 10 meters high. If you want to bring a group 40 strong , complete with axes you deserve whatever loot it gives. 

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Removing server/twitter feeds was something we were hesitant in doing, but given the points raised here we feel it's worth a shot. 

 

This update will also include removal of server and twitter feed notices. 

 

As for dragons bashing deeds, we expect it to happen about as much as it does now

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