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Wsa silver sales and safety

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8 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

How bout do away with silver selling, by both in game mechanics and by illegitimizing the practice? Boom. Problem solved. No more scams. 

 

I don't see why we must support people making rl money in game.

 

Wouldn't that just drive the whole thing underground?  Like wow, etc?  At least currently there's some scrutiny and ability for staff to step in and ban scammers.

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7 hours ago, Cecci said:

I payed 10 swedish crowns per silver at the shop yesterday, that is a fair bit under 1 euro, purchased 1 gold..

But ok, maybe it is cheaper cause I pay with a (swedish) bank account?

10 crowns = .94 euro, so you are saying for 1 gold, you payed 1000 crowns?  That is 94 euro.  When you log into the shop, do you see prices advertised in crowns or euros?  This is what I see from the USA: g1y7J2F.png

This makes me wonder.

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The paypal ones are SUPER expensive, use the window under "Please make sure you are logged in with the proper account" and it will most likely be cheaper.

 

i just checked and it's 196aud or 119 euro for 100 silver for me, paypal shows 160 euro same as screenshot above

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Ok, so I definately got cheaper paying with my swedish bank account, 0.94 euro per silver.

Still, it is probably cheaper for anyone to pay with bank compared to paypal.

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Oh interesting.  I remember the old days, the paypal was the only reliable way to transact and I've just never gone back and tried again.  Good grief, it really is much better to use ATM or credit cards.  Interestingly, the big hit for using paypal is only on silver purchases.  Premium time not jacked up the same on Paypal.  I wonder why?

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32 minutes ago, Wurmhole said:

Oh interesting.  I remember the old days, the paypal was the only reliable way to transact and I've just never gone back and tried again.  Good grief, it really is much better to use ATM or credit cards.  Interestingly, the big hit for using paypal is only on silver purchases.  Premium time not jacked up the same on Paypal.  I wonder why?

 

I pay 720 Skr (67,7 euro) for one year prem with my bank account.

With paypal 80 euro.

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17 hours ago, HexD said:

Wurm is a game and not a revenue stream for players

Although this is how it should be the opposite is the situation. As long as I have played the game the game has endorsed the ability of players to make RL cash profits from playing it. Now over the years the Devs have dealt with the results, be they positive or negative. Mostly negative in my estimation. As for Silver and Account sales I see no intent to change the current situation.

 

2 hours ago, Wurmhole said:

When you log into the shop, do you see prices advertised in crowns or euros?  This is what I see from the USA:

When I log onto the Wurm Shop the Xsolla payment options are listed first above PayPal. Xsolla offers many more ways to pay than PayPal such as gift and cash cards, as well as credit and debit cards. Yet the big/best difference is that you can pay in US Dollars (other currencies too) rather than needing to convert to Euros as PayPal will do and then charge you an additional fee for doing so. I suppose Xsolla has this cost priced into their model but I still find them cheaper to use than PayPal with their prices listed in US Dollars.

 

There is no need to have an "Xsolla account" as they just process these payment options, so don't be confused into thinking you need to create one to use their option since an account with their company is just needed for those such as Code Club who collect/receive these funds. This is unlike PayPal where you can create an account with them if desired and then use for various purchases.

 

I have used the Xsolla payment option ever since it was offered in the Wurm Shop some years ago and am a bit surprised when others who deal in US Dollars and other non-Euro payments don't mention their preference for using it over PayPal. I think it is from just misunderstanding it (Xsolla) or being unaware of the simplicity and benefits of it. Also, per a gold purchase it is surprisingly close to what other players sell gold for anyway (maybe within $10-$20) with the benefits of a safe, fast transaction and supporting the game profits in the process.

 

Yet if players would rather "save" this small amount buying from other players, you can realize how much they really care about the future of the game. Take the added risk too. Not the brightest bulbs I guess...

 

=Ayes=

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For me in Sweden, the paypal offer is shown in Euro while the bank payment is shown in my currency.

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4 hours ago, Wonka said:

 

Wouldn't that just drive the whole thing underground?  Like wow, etc?  At least currently there's some scrutiny and ability for staff to step in and ban scammers.

Nothing prevents staff from banning scammers wether it is allowed or not, but it does discourage the practice. Scammers can't openly bait people like they do now, and those who seek "underground" methods know what they are getting into. 

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Lets just point out apparently what isnt obvious....as a silver seller that silver that gets purchased from me and many others sellers still supports the game.  In my case money from the silver sales go into the paypal account  of which i then log into the shop to buy prem time.  SO lets not paint silver sellers as evil or negative and start a mass panic.  

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Haha... Lol... yeah... that one was an obviously terrible joke :
 

22 hours ago, madnezz said:

2019-06-20] [17:35:05] <Odynn> (Del) WTS suspicious silvers - don't PM me... or maybe do!

I will have to sell some silvers to pay for the premium time that need to be renewed in august... but that WON'T be the kind of message i will post... for quite obvious reasons!

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Apparently I have been brought up as a reference to vouch for someone named Kristaa who is selling cheap silver or something. I have no logs of any conversation with someone of that name. Kristaa - if we spoke on an alt, please contact me so I can clear things up, but I have no log of speaking to you on the forums or in-game. Anyone else, until I know whether there is an alt I spoke with, I do NOT vouch for this person! Do not buy silver on account of me being named as a reference!

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For note, the Kristaa account has been dealt with by the GM Team.

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On 6/20/2019 at 9:34 PM, ZeldaGold said:

i personally was never a fan of supporting players and there real life things, would rather spend the extra on a secure trade and support the game i play.

totally agree with this however I believe the buying and selling of accounts to an extent, or maybe the sale of deeds for real-world money, is ok, but on the other hand, I know from my experience in WoW of these exact problem can get ridiculous and its a shame that we are starting to see it here. there they even had scammers who would promise to level your caricature and skills to the max for rl money too. not to mention account hacking issues. these are some reasons i came to wurm.

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On 6/21/2019 at 2:02 AM, Niki said:

IP ban them if possible. Players have been getting lazy, you should never buy silver from randoms in trade chat.

i hope you do realize that if someone really wanted to screw with people

they could theoretically

1. Drop some silvers somewhere with their main account

2. Install a VPN

3. Change their IP

4. Using the new IP, create a new account 

5. Go and pick up the silvers

6. Start scamming people

 

And even if u IP ban them, they will just change their IP and they will be back. It will be changed in a matter of seconds.

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Just stop the sale of silver in game.  Simple.

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15 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

Just stop the sale of silver in game.  Simple.

Maybe when silver prices are adjusted on the store.

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5 hours ago, Gladiator said:

i hope you do realize that if someone really wanted to screw with people

they could theoretically

1. Drop some silvers somewhere with their main account

2. Install a VPN

3. Change their IP

4. Using the new IP, create a new account 

5. Go and pick up the silvers

6. Start scamming people

 

And even if u IP ban them, they will just change their IP and they will be back. It will be changed in a matter of seconds.

You do realize it's a scam play.. they don't actually have silver...(?)
Silver selling have been a thing for years... 
My understanding is.. that this whole mess comes from scammers who have no silver/gold but pretend to have such, you send them RL money.. they do not send you anything... and we're here reading WSA posts about such cases.

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I’ve sold and bought silver many times over the years, never been an issue. I’ve known the risks but never been catious, I have faith in people. Maybe I’ve just been lucky.

 

Anyway, these days I only buy from wurm shop. Between players and shop there is not a big difference in price if you chose the right payment option and amount.

 

Paypal is a no go!!

10s through paypal is 179sek

150sek with Trustly or directly from my bank

 

100s is 1000sek through Trustly or directly from my bank

 

1000sek is around 94e. That’s better than the 1s/1e rate. That means I get my gold coins for 94e at the wurm shop, safe and fair price.

 

I don’t know the payment options of other countries, but avoid paypal and higher amount = more discount.

Edited by Sharkin
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1 hour ago, Sharkin said:

I don’t know the payment options of other countries, but avoid paypal and higher amount = more discount.

 

As for other countries, from Poland, trying to buy 100s I would need to pay 120e so for me it's always better to buy in-game from players.

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100s would cost me £150 from the shop
buying 100s at $:S from an american player would cost me £80
I'm unemployed
it's not even a debate for me

Edited by Steveleeb

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On 6/21/2019 at 2:18 AM, Angelklaine said:

How bout do away with silver selling, by both in game mechanics and by illegitimizing the practice? Boom. Problem solved. No more scams. 

 

I don't see why we must support people making rl money in game.

I sell silvers. I sell a lot of silvers,  because I sell a lot of chopped veggies. I typically have 1g+ in my account, even selling. I also pay a lot of premiums  and every single time I sell silvers I turn around and buy premium time with it. There would be no reason for me to sell as many veggies as I do if I had to simply sit on hundreds of gold in my account. 

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3 hours ago, ChampagneDragon said:

I sell silvers. I sell a lot of silvers,  because I sell a lot of chopped veggies. I typically have 1g+ in my account, even selling. I also pay a lot of premiums  and every single time I sell silvers I turn around and buy premium time with it. There would be no reason for me to sell as many veggies as I do if I had to simply sit on hundreds of gold in my account. 

I understand you may disagree, but having too many veggies is a first world problem. On any game that disallows rmt, you simply don't farm as much or trade that money forward into the in game economy for other services, have larger deeds and nicer gear. 

 

Your real life nest egg should not be the concern of developmental decisions. If rmt is resulting in scams and problems in the community, then illegalizing the practice is a completely viable solution. People who regularly cash out are taking part of the market out of the equation as they are not moving commerce. The trade of goods and services does not flow when you treat currency as a good: it devaluates it. So it always affects gameplay.

 

Regardless, the only reason why these type of scams are happening is because people are allowed to openly advertise the silver sales. I am sure that if silver sales were illegal, those selling silver publicly could be banned on sight. This would have prevented recent victims from falling prey to the practice. 

 

I am sure anyone who sells silver would be against banning the practice. Me? I am a buyer. I don't care who I get my silver from. All the money I produce stays on the market.

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The problem with banning the sales of silver is the fact that the game still wants your real money.  You still need real money to buy premium and pay for your upkeeps and buy goods, unless you sell stuff which is effectively allowing sales of items for real money and the same thing as silver selling.

 

If wurms economy was something similar to that of say, runescape, where your ingame coins are obtainable through many ingame methods and tradable with other players who also obtained them via ingame methods, and you can buy premium with those ingame coins, it would be a totally different story.  Especially since runescape already bans selling items/money out of game.  It would be great for people that legit are just trying to get their prems/upkeeps paid for, but I feel there's too many players with the mindset that they should be allowed to work for money in wurm and that's supported by the team so it would never work, and would probably lose even more players.

 

But hey, we can at least reduce the necessity for so much silver.  Why's it 8e/10s a month for prem for every single account?  Why aren't we paying for a master account that allows x many characters, and if needed extra charges for x amount of characters?  8e a month for one account is cheap, but when you add in just one priest alt it's suddenly 16e a month and it's not like every priest alt is played as a main to the same extent of prem time usage.  It seems pretty outdated, especially when you can spend 2s a month on fresh alts for whatever use they may have obviously limited by being prem for only 30 days.  Even if we just had a basic system that allowed one free second account for the same prem, and 2e/2s a month more for each extra account, it would be such a difference.  I know the argument would be "but then ccab loses money!!!"  well if the game relies on less people paying for more accounts, then that's a giant problem way beyond us

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1 hour ago, MrGARY said:

The problem with banning the sales of silver is the fact that the game still wants your real money.  You still need real money to buy premium and pay for your upkeeps and buy goods, unless you sell stuff which is effectively allowing sales of items for real money and the same thing as silver selling.

 

If wurms economy was something similar to that of say, runescape, where your ingame coins are obtainable through many ingame methods and tradable with other players who also obtained them via ingame methods, and you can buy premium with those ingame coins, it would be a totally different story.  Especially since runescape already bans selling items/money out of game.  It would be great for people that legit are just trying to get their prems/upkeeps paid for, but I feel there's too many players with the mindset that they should be allowed to work for money in wurm and that's supported by the team so it would never work, and would probably lose even more players.

 

But hey, we can at least reduce the necessity for so much silver.  Why's it 8e/10s a month for prem for every single account?  Why aren't we paying for a master account that allows x many characters, and if needed extra charges for x amount of characters?  8e a month for one account is cheap, but when you add in just one priest alt it's suddenly 16e a month and it's not like every priest alt is played as a main to the same extent of prem time usage.  It seems pretty outdated, especially when you can spend 2s a month on fresh alts for whatever use they may have obviously limited by being prem for only 30 days.  Even if we just had a basic system that allowed one free second account for the same prem, and 2e/2s a month more for each extra account, it would be such a difference.  I know the argument would be "but then ccab loses money!!!"  well if the game relies on less people paying for more accounts, then that's a giant problem way beyond us

Standard price for main toon + 1 choosed by player toon linked to same email sounds reasonable. 

 

But for people without alts, like me, there's still no use for it. 

I consider Wurm as expensive game, however as long as i feel security in my items and stock i have no bad feelings at all. I've never sold anything for real money, but just a feeling that i can in any moment to fund my playtime makes me feel better. That's why I am against banning sales and real money trades. Still i gotta pay about 25€ monthly minimum. Sometimes less, usually more. Deeds aren't free at all. And yeah of course i can keep up with upkeeps with in game trading and almnost dead, but still some economy. As long as i play... when I'm going for a break, then after a break a single payment to upkeep my playtime might be roughly 100€+

 

I am more than sure that would get out of game literally ton of players, because that's the most unique feature that wurm offers against other, especially "modern" mmos. 

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