Gladiator

How to kill your own game tutorial

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Step 1 :

Hire staff members as volunteers

 

Step 2 :

For years on end disprove any issues players think the game has.

 

Step 3 :

Release your game as a different product on Steam and provide a sellout of that product on Humble for exactly the price of 1$ 

(Note that any sane individual would rather make a 1$ pay once in a lifetime than a 10$ pay every single month for a 95% similar game)

 

Step 4 :

Kill your PVP cluster ( Epic ) with a broken skiling system ( Skill grinded on freedom stays on freedom and goes to epic, but skill grinded on Epic only stays on epic so there is 0 point in grinding there, therefor the population is reduced significantly since 99% of the game is about grinding )

 

Step 5 :

Ban people all around for either things they didnt commit ( The mass ban of WU a cople of months back ) or things done yeaaars ago that have been accounted for ( Proph's ban )

or ban them randomly ( People who were banned for saying " gary " in epic chat )

 

Step 6 :

This is the final step. All thats left that u gotta do is completely censor the community every time they bring up either these issues or others, or basicly censor each and every thing that you do not want to come out and mass spread rumors. Killing the voice of the people therefor kills the hope they have for a better  tomorrow.

 

I know for a fact that this thread is going to be deleted so ill make a screeny. Good day to ya'll

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You forgot:

Step 7:

Never advertise the game anywhere 

 

Step 8: 

Release WU and then just abandon it, maybe release an update or two once a year. Still no modding API that was promised 3 years ago, and will most likely never be a thing at this point.

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13 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

I know for a fact that this thread is going to be deleted so ill make a screeny.

 

Nah, they'll leave it up and gloat at this statement, while having addressed nothing in the actual post. They're just sitting these things out. The only thing transparent about moderation right now seems to be the damage control mode they're in, but god knows who's holding the gun against their heads and whispering the lines to them.

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this also doubles as a tutorial on how to get banned from the forums

 

1. state facts that hurts peoples feels about said game

 

91ed7fc2d0ddd2b314489b59d214968c.png

 

 

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Okay lets see here

 

50 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

Step 1 :

Hire staff members as volunteers

I believe your point is that you disagree with the moderation actions and blame it on them being volunteers which is a bit backwards. Being players they are more intune with the game and devote their time out of passion for the game. 

 

Step 2 :

For years on end disprove any issues players think the game has.

I think you mean that the developers don't agree that things are an issue or disagree with the resolution, which is something in common, many times we've worked with the community in resolving things and sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad. Quite often players know what doesn't work,but struggle to identify what does work, we are happy to continue working with you all, after all, look at the elevation reset thread.

 

Step 3 :

Release your game as a different product on Steam and provide a sellout of that product on Humble for exactly the price of 1$ 

(Note that any sane individual would rather make a 1$ pay once in a lifetime than a 10$ pay every single month for a 95% similar game)

Wurm Unlimited as a standalone version has never been about being a sellout, and 350,000 people learned about Wurm, many have come from Wurm Unlimited to Wurm Online as well as vice versa. It's a trade, while many potential players have gone from WO to WU, we hope future updates as WO exclusives will provide more incentive to stick around

Step 4 :

Kill your PVP cluster ( Epic ) with a broken skiling system ( Skill grinded on freedom stays on freedom and goes to epic, but skill grinded on Epic only stays on epic so there is 0 point in grinding there, therefor the population is reduced significantly since 99% of the game is about grinding )

The skilling system is designed around being faster and more easily PvP ready. Faster timers on the Freedom system would mean slower skillgain, and thus we swapped to a hybrid. It's not perfect, just like the Freedom system isn't perfect, but it's built around being much faster and Epic being hop in and hop out PvP. Let's not forget the fact Epic was empty prior to this change too, many players who felt stuck on Epic got the ability to play on Freedom from that. 

As for the transfer thing, that's something that's been discussed about the future plans for Epic.

 

Quote

Step 5 :

Ban people all around for either things they didnt commit ( The mass ban of WU a cople of months back ) or things done yeaaars ago that have been accounted for ( Proph's ban )

or ban them randomly ( People who were banned for saying " gary " in epic chat )

The WU bans were handled quite quickly, along with a full PvP ban while we did sort it out, it was unfortunate, but we took steps to make sure losses were minimal and compensated premium for time lost. 

We have always banned toxic players, and harassment has always been a situation thats incurred moderation. I know PvP is more loosely moderated but harassment of someone is never tolerated.

 

Step 6 :

This is the final step. All thats left that u gotta do is completely censor the community every time they bring up either these issues or others, or basicly censor each and every thing that you do not want to come out and mass spread rumors. Killing the voice of the people therefor kills the hope they have for a better  tomorrow.

We have no problem talking about rumours and discussing issues, just like the countless threads about Epic, the threads about discussions about the GM team and how we've handled certain scenarios have been left visible (if locked due to going too far into KvK drama or just general arguing). We continue to be open to discuss issues raised as long as they are done so in a constructive manner. 

I know for a fact that this thread is going to be deleted so ill make a screeny. Good day to ya'll

Include me in the screencap

 

41 minutes ago, nitram20 said:

You forgot:

Step 7:

Never advertise the game anywhere 

Every update I reach out to MMO websites with information on it for articles, you can find several here:

https://massivelyop.com/2019/05/25/wurm-online-is-about-to-preview-its-big-may-30-update/

(Massively OP is really good at working with us on news of updates, others such as RPS don't always write articles about us). Now if you're talking about paid advertising, it's been done with really little effect, which means several things, either the target is wrong, the copy is bad, or the introduction into the game is bad. Last round saw a spike in traffic in new accounts, which means the target was at least those who would be interested, and the copy worked. The problem was so few stuck around it was not financially viable, meaning working on introduction into the game and progression (Tutorial overhaul and journal) Expecting to look at YouTube and promoting our own Twitch to gather potential players, as well as adwords

Step 8: 

Release WU and then just abandon it, maybe release an update or two once a year. Still no modding API that was promised 3 years ago, and will most likely never be a thing at this point.

WU gets consolidated updates with everything in it, to allow modders time to adjust and server hosts to get ready, Wurm online gets trickled updates whereas WU gets updates twice a year bringing it almost fully up to WO. For a 3 and a half year old Steam game I'd say it's pretty supported. 

The desire for a modding API was shared a long time ago, and was a goal. However, with working with the existing modding community the existing hooks are far superior to a modding system we could implement in any short timeframe. We work closely with them to provide them with options they need for their modding and help them work on mods by bouncing ideas. 

 

32 minutes ago, platinumteef said:

this also doubles as a tutorial on how to get banned from the forums

 

1. state facts that hurts peoples feels about said game

 

91ed7fc2d0ddd2b314489b59d214968c.png

We always get spikes around christmas, yes they're lower than pre 2015, but we'll continue to produce content that provides end game PvE for existing players and entices new players to check the game out. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

The skilling system is designed around being faster and more easily PvP ready. Faster timers on the Freedom system would mean slower skillgain, and thus we swapped to a hybrid. It's not perfect, just like the Freedom system isn't perfect, but it's built around being much faster and Epic being hop in and hop out PvP. Let's not forget the fact Epic was empty prior to this change too, many players who felt stuck on Epic got the ability to play on Freedom from that. 

As for the transfer thing, that's something that's been discussed about the future plans for Epic

 

are you disabling pvp on chaos and making it the "frontier" server to hunt on?

and making epic the ONLY pvp option?

 

that seems like it would fix part of the problem, the other half of the problem is the 100's of issues with the current 'hybrid' system in itself on epic

i could go on for days but most of the factual things i can come up with get dismissed as anecdotal

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Just now, platinumteef said:

are you disabling pvp on chaos and making it the "frontier" server to hunt on?

and making epic the ONLY pvp option?

 

that seems like it would fix part of the problem, the other half of the problem is the 100's of issues with the current 'hybrid' system in itself on epic

i could go on for days but most of the factual things i can come up with get dismissed as anecdotal

I've listed the lockpicking thing to be looked at and adjusted. And will continue to work with the dev team on the others.

 

And Chaos isn't what Frontier is, which is just a codename 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

And Chaos isn't what Frontier is, which is just a codename 

 

my bait failed god damnit

 

 

what about weapon skilling? i can provide two 30 minute side by sides that show you at 85 sickle skill while killing at the same rate of swings per minute that its 2x faster on freedom than it is on epic*

 

and no I don't use my "eyes" to gauge, i use wurm assist skill tracker to do my tracking per hour

Edited by platinumteef

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I can see about it being adjusted prior to the epic work, but wont be today

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and yes I'm taking into consideration attacking the same type of targets, that i like to call "fleshies" becuase you get full skill gain per hit off of them, and yes i've tested natural armor reduction on epic still reduces skill per swing

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1 minute ago, Retrograde said:

I can see about it being adjusted prior to the epic work, but wont be today

 

ok ty

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Posted (edited)

There are quite some good things on the way. I wouldn't agree to most of the points as of now. Just see what comes up in the next months.

Edited by Sklo:D

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You forgot to address this:

Step 9:

The arrogance of the settled players resulting in chasing away the new players.

 

Example:

 

- A new player messes up a part of a highway, unaware you can't dig down at the side of the road, causing one of the tile borders to slope down 10 dirt. Reason why the new player digged down there, they were told they needed sand to create mortar and that particular highway had sand at its outlining.

 

Result: in freedom chat the messed up road is reported, the entire community of that server is in anger about it because: "You are not allowed to mess with highways!! (ad 32 exclamation marks there)" and "It's always the n00bs messing things up, which we need to repair."

The new player sees this, feels attacked and leaves the game.

 

- At the same time, a known and settled player is interupting a highway to change the pavement to his / her liking, turning it into a 4 tile wide road with different pavement and eventually setting up a market without informing the residents of that area. And all of this is done with a deed that's basically blocking off the deed of another member, as well as having both perimeters hitting one another.

When the player with the blocked off deed mention something about it, tells (s)he doesn't like it and considers it grieving, the answer (s)he got is : "if you don't like it, you should've deeded that area." Eventually that settled player decides that living with an unwanted market right next door isn't his / her cup of tea and decides to leave the game.

 

 

Example 2:

A player wants to ride a horse but can't and asks in CA-HELP why he can't ride that horse. Turns out the player in question is new and doesn't have the required 21 BC yet. At that point, all kind of more experienced players start to give "advice",  telling the new one he had to do archery or archaeology, using tools with CoC, BotD, between 1 AM and 4 AM PST after sacrificing his virgin sister to Smeagain using a blunt kitchen knife.

At some point, another more settled player joins in, saying that the new player should just enjoy the game, learn how to work with the skills and eventually that player will have the required BC to ride a horse. Which in turn resulted in other settled players reacting that this game isn't about enjoying, but about grinding until you got sick of it and then grinding some more.

 

Result, said new player never shows up in CA-HELP again and most likely left the game.

 

Example 3:
 

- A player managed to get a crafting skill over 70 at an impalong. Because that player had in mind to set up a shop with his friends, he does a PC in trade chat about the items in said skill.

The answer he got was: "10c because you're selling items others imped over 70ql at an impalong", done by a player who wasn't even present at said impalong. As a result, more players attack the first player who did the PC; even in PM, unaware  that someone using a false claim started this riot.

After two more of these "incidents" two of the friends of said player decided that enough is enough and leave the game.

 

- Example 4:

 

A new player settles down at steppes close to a starter's town. A settled player doesn't like that and starts harrasing her in PM and chat, eventually leading to that new player leaving that area, and settling at another spot in a forrest, just to find out players didn't like that and started harrasing her.

Eventually, she decides enough is enough, as every attempt she or a few of her friends are doing to calm thing down and she leaves the game.

 

 

I could go on with this, but I think the message is obvious enough. It's not the staff that kills the game, although they too are making decissions that make players leave the game.

It's us, the more experienced players who're killing it by patronizing the new players, blaming them for things they weren't even aware of they shouldn't do, even blaming them when they haven't done those things; but at the same time ignoring the similar actions of the settled players.

 

I've seen settled players messing up perfectly good tunnels / canals because they were "improving" those, only to leave the project after realizing they bit off a lot more as they could chew.

I've seen settled players rant about n00bs messing up roads, but remaining very quiet the moment another settled player said (s)he did that because (s)he is / was improving the road by flattening it out by removing dirt at one spot and using it to fill up a downward slope at another spot.

I've seen settled players having a public argument about which village was better to attrackt a new player. I'm still surprised that the pissing contest and the comparising of certain body parts hasn't happened at some point. Needless to say the new player didn't join either village in the end.

I've seen settled players freaking out about a new player cutting down a birch 20 tiles from that settled player's deed. Only to find out two days later the settled player moved to the other side of the lake he lived at and went cutting down four mapgrids of forest, ignoring the 6 deeds in that region because "I had to grind my WC up".

 

Like I said, I could go on and on with this, but I won't.

It's us, the "veteran" and "settled" players who're arrogant enough to believe we own this game; simply because we're playing it longer and therefore have better skills and thus are able to create the better items. As well as having been able to pick the better spots and form them the way we like to.

In our arrogance, we start a new character, equip it with the best ql items we can create and then tell a new player that starting isn't as bad is they think it is.

In our arrogance we think that having a 50ql longsword, a 30ql armor and a 30ql shield makes a new player invunerable; because "when I started all I had was a 10ql short sword"; ignoring that the items are only half of what's needed to survive, as it doesn't matter what ql armor, weapons and skill level you got. A monster trail still kills you, even if you wear 99ql rare drake and wielding a 99ql rare glimmer steel huge axe.

 

Maybe it's time we, the settled players, start looking at our own behaviour and realize it's us who're chasing away the players; despite the dev's trying their best to make this game better.

I'm not saying I agree with everything the dev's and staff does, because I don't. I've seen certain players been protected by certain staff members, resulting in players being leaving this game or getting a perma ban because they freaked out to some staff members after being pissed off by a certain player for some time.

But if I have to compare the actions of the dev's and staff versus those of the community, I'm sad to say that it's the community that looses. Big time.

 

And I can only conclude, that if there's a need for a change, it's the community  that has to start to change first. But I doubt that'll happen.

 

 

Thorin :)

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3 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Okay lets see here

 

(kind of) glad to see I'm being proven wrong that this won't be addressed. I did see the thread being gone for a few minutes prior to your response though. :P

 

But except for the moderation being in disarray, or whatever is going on there, I think the OP is overtly antagonistic. In terms of development, I think the team is doing the best with what they have and do a fairly decent job in the end. I can understand why there's a need to vent over these issues, though, threads like these are, unfortunately, not entirely unwarranted. I see it as a mixture of both unfavorable situations and some bad decisions, though. The team is small and has a lot on their plate, and being in touch with what everyone exactly wants isn't easy even with the tiny playerbase. At least the developers are willing to meet us somewhere when being vocal enough. Usually.

 

@Thorinoakshield

While some of these examples are truly disheartening, I also believe that the actions of the individuals in question are also frowned upon by many other players.

Example 2 stands out to me, however. It seems like people are trying too hard to be helpful, being almost intimidating with their proposals of optimizing all sorts of bits and ends, when instead, the new player should indeed just be doing their thing and not worry too much because optimizing isn't really worthwhile until the 70s. This help might be bumbling and unaware at times like these, and the comment about grinding until you get sick may have been a joke in bad taste (yet, it's perfectly honest and upfront towards any newbie to say how grindy the game is), but between the lines that readiness to help and inform new players is much closer to the WO community that I know, which is the most supportive and open one I've seen in any game.

 

There are bad apples and room for improvement. But I don't see how it has to fundamentally change just from these examples. For everyone antagonising a new player in some way, I bet there are at least 10 people looking to take someone under their wing or just provide tools and neccessities to those in need. Maybe that's patronizing players too much, as you say. However, it's a fine line helping players not get disgruntled over the tough start into the game and making them bored of it by overproviding. I'm pretty sure that a lot, if not most people who do leave have just realized that it's not their cup of tea. I had plenty of "recruits" who just silently up and left the game, sometimes after setting out on their own never to be heard of again.

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Just chill for 2 or so more weeks my dudes

 

We'll see what we get

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4 hours ago, Retrograde said:

I believe your point is that you disagree with the moderation actions and blame it on them being volunteers which is a bit backwards.

 

I believe you should stop putting words in my mouth. I never said that. What i meant is that people who get payed deliver higher quality products and services. That is a fact.

 

4 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Wurm Unlimited as a standalone version has never been about being a sellout, and 350,000 people learned about Wurm, many have come from Wurm Unlimited to Wurm Online as well as vice versa. It's a trade, while many potential players have gone from WO to WU, we hope future updates as WO exclusives will provide more incentive to stick around

 

Yet the numbers say that you lost half your WO population when WU was released. But keep deluding yourself.

 

4 hours ago, Retrograde said:

The WU bans were handled quite quickly, along with a full PvP ban while we did sort it out, it was unfortunate, but we took steps to make sure losses were minimal and compensated premium for time lost. 

 

The fact that it happened in the first place disgusts me and it took most of my heart for the game the minute it happened. I was one of the people banned whilst sleeping at that. My character having been offline for hours. Im surprised i didn't quit then and there.

 

4 hours ago, Retrograde said:

We have no problem talking about rumours and discussing issues, just like the countless threads about Epic, the threads about discussions about the GM team and how we've handled certain scenarios have been left visible (if locked due to going too far into KvK drama or just general arguing). We continue to be open to discuss issues raised as long as they are done so in a constructive manner. 

 

Yet the staff team closed countless of our threads for "Not adding anything else to the discussion" or some sort of excuse of the sort. This has happened a LOT lately. Most of my comments on the forum are as well deleted. Anything people dislike is deleted. This is a fact.

 

4 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Expecting to look at YouTube and promoting our own Twitch to gather potential players, as well as adwords

 

When?

 

 

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4 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Include me in the screencap

 

Appreciate staff leaving up and addressing player grievances, rather than deleting them.  Transparency and communication is how you earn back player trust 

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You forgot:

10.  Keep trying, for some odd reason, to cater to a loud minority who constantly tries to keep you from catering to the other 90% because they need to feel special or something along those lines.

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4 minutes ago, Mordraug said:

10.  Keep trying, for some odd reason, to cater to a loud minority who constantly tries to keep you from catering to the other 90% because they need to feel special or something along those lines.

 

You are 100% wrong on this one. 90% of the updates in the last years were PVE related. PVE has gotten so much more content it's insane. You're delusional as always. Thank you for dropping by though, always nice to hear your melodramatic nonsensical self

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Posted (edited)

` Nope, it's the right way the game should be played. Think about it, PVE makes absolutely no sense. It has no purpose, no meaning. No risk, no strategy, no challange ->> no game. `
` Thank you for dropping by though, always nice to hear your melodramatic nonsensical self `
well now you're just projecting. you'll find a mirror serves greater purpose than a forum.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
as for the content of this thread, im seeing alot of over-thinking and a fair amount of over-fearing.
I cannot speak for pvp, i'm a creative and have yet to try it.
as far as the newbie issue is concerned, ca-help i find is very helpful, we don't tell them how to play, just how the dots are joined. the game is far less daunting than it used to be.
`have fun` is always the last word.
 

6 hours ago, Gladiator said:

Step 3 :

(Note that any sane individual would rather make a 1$ pay once in a lifetime than a 10$ pay every single month for a 95% similar game)

That made me genuinely giggle, thank you.
if all u wanna do is PvP i'd understand the appeal of WU because it's free and it doesn't matter if the server goes belly up.
however, if you want to create beautiful things and you want them to remain, un-threatened by server funding or lack thereof, official servers have a permanence that can't be guaranteed anywhere else.
I'm not saying we're sane.. i'm saying that insanity isn't the reason we pay to play.
still, you do make WU seem very attractive, i hope what you've written sells more copies. a percentage of those buyers will migrate to WO because they'll yearn for something more permanent.
(i apologize to any WU servers that might outlive codeclub, such a thing is possible but imo, highly unlikely)

If you just wanna muck about destroying things and you're not happy with the way WO is operating, I'm not sure why you're wrestling with it. if i was you i'd migrate to WU and be done with it.

Edited by Steveleeb

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Oh, Gladys.. when are you gonna learn to not dish it out if you can't take it?  

 

 

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cant we have a nice thread about how garbage the game is without pve vs pvp derailing

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Posted (edited)

[11:07:25] 14 other players are online. You are on Release (257 totally in Wurm).

 

 

hello, game doing fine, lets keep arguing about pvp vs pve

 

 

inb4 generic "250 people feels good for a game of wurms size" or "its summer guys, what do you expect people are swimming and stuff, every game is this low pop during the summer!!@!@!"

Edited by platinumteef

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