Votip

PMK Stuff from 1% kingdom influence.

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Man up, snowflake.

 

You guys are constantly trolling threads marked "PvE". 

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Posted (edited)

I don't really understand the hate over gofs here: blame the game, not the player.
he didn't do anything against anybody in particular, he just followed a game mechanic that was always there to do what he wanted (creating his design and investing in it to profit) without hurting anyone or anything directly.
How he uses that money is not for other people to judge, unless it's a forced game mechanic, you can't bring up "pvp ethics" in a game. And  being so toxic and entilted about that is not helping your cause.
At least he has been honest about his intentions, exposing the problem more than ever, and didn't pretend to make a kingdom for pvp reasons to just close up a few weeks later after cashing in
(disclaimer: i'm not referring to anyone in particular here, i don't even know/remember the last PMK names, let alone creators, but i'm pretty sure this happened).

About the thread: i +1 the general idea of this thead, and i would also add that is probably not enough.

Because the PMK market is getting so much dispersive and full of different designs that is getting confusing to even just have a collection

I think that new "pvp pmk designs" should only be reserved for kingdoms that achieve something very significant in pvp, having 1 new pmk design per year should be the target: everything more than that will just overcrowd the market to the point that it will become unsignificant and unappealing.

And if you want to add "player designs" to freedom i wouldn't be too enthustiastic about the idea for this same reason.

Maybe, if you do, add some particular that will make it obvious that they are coming from the freedom cluster, like only being able to put graphics in a restricted area of the wagon (rectangular/oval shape) and can't be confused with PMK ones, but i'm more for a "nope" about it tbh.

 

Edited by Davih

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Posted (edited)

I think that's the problem with what he did, used a game to make a profit. It's a game not a business venture. More than enough people use Wurm as a means of income and it has only ever hurt the 'game'. We need to move away from mechanics that promote profit for players and instead reward players with in game rewards to further their game play not their real life bank balance.

Not long ago I asked in CA chat if someone with money could do as Gofs has done solely for the purpose of having a unique design for my personal use (an actual rare wagon) and the response was 'If you can secure the kingdom long enough, probably.' The Crow kingdom design was added so fast and disbanded equally as fast to increase value, it's almost as though devs want to encourage this type of game play. I understand wanting to be unique but exploiting a game for profit is weak and should be discouraged.

+1 to making it harder to have graphics added to profit pmk's

Edited by HexD

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Honestly, friends, i wanted to make my design for the game, and the only way to do that is to make PMK. So i did. Profit? Ok profit. Not the target №1, but i think my real proposes aint so important in this topic. Fact in that i did that what i wanted to. 
If you really think that 1% lands will stop me from making a kingdom, that a mistake. I did all alone in the end, even tho i had idea to make it as the battle kingdom, but well guys who wanna be in from the beginning, decided to drop the game, however in the end i did all alone. And i was building tower about 1-2 days then i left 1 brick to attach and started to made toons, selling all that i have i even sold my weapons to buy 23 toons, i mean i had targeted and i was going forward, if i would need to make 1% of land, well i'd build 5-8 more unfinished guard towers, that i would finish after make pmk, so that would happen in the same day.. That definitely not enough to stop me.

If you think about really fix the "problem", i will say again. You have 2 choices :
1) Make Kingdom title to make PMK items, and cooldown on the possibility to make PMK items, for example, 1 day, or 1 week, up on you. That will give you what you want. From other side I heard that i was able to make 1000s, not bad at all, so regular kingdoms can make 1000s per 2 weeks, that is good. But i think not 100% true. However with Cooldown that will be also fixed.  That also will raise the price.
2) To be not such conservators. Really give some possibility to add design in the game. I understand Veterans, you might be gonna hate me till the end of times, but friends, the game needs to move forward, atm online x2 less then it was 2015 for example, that very pity.. It's mean that game moving through time didn't reach goals that would interesting for new players. and Yeah i saying about new, not about you veteran players, the course you already here... Just to keep you will not prevent the game from dying. Please, i really ask you to think a little bit about the whole game, not only about your wishes. Stop say NO to everything new, that makes you feel uncomfortable, maybe this new will bring more people, and in the end make more fun for you as well. 
Add some possible new graphic for Freedom Alliances. Don't add wagons, flags, banners, tall banners, tents... lets really left that for PvP friends, so don't drop they prices... But let people who don't wanna play pvp, add some design in the game..

However, I want to bring my apology for my toxic text in past, I was rude. But in the end i really ask you to think about let the game to re-born. You all might seen my graphic already. I want to join Art Team of wurm, will draw textures.
Thank you for your attention. 

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Posted (edited)

 

2 hours ago, Gofs said:

...I want to join Art Team of wurm, will draw textures...

 

Privyet tovarisch 🤙

 

I know not the full depth of the debate, but from what I gather, I sympathise with both sides. Seems to me the root of it is that pvp folks are against the devaluation of their source of revenue for kingdom operation, while Gofs mainly wants to see his art in the game.

 

And i have to say, they are awesome works of art.  I say to you Gofs, why don't you show us some ideas of what you can do, in a separate thread? Judging from the quality of the Crow design, I'm looking forward to seeing more of your artwork.

Edited by Mataleao
Removed vodka spillage

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The art team are doing a grand job as is and aren't scheming and abusing mechanics to turn a profit behind the guise of self promotion for the benefit of the game.

We definitely don't need to inundate them with more custom graphic requests from every village/alliance or player with an alt army from the Freedom cluster wishing to change their sigil all the time, even once is enough. Which you definitely know will happen, just think how much money you could make charging them all to design their sigils for them!!

The bigger picture.
 

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1 hour ago, Mataleao said:

 

 

Privyet tovarisch 🤙

 

I know not the full depth of the debate, but from what I gather, I sympathise with both sides. Seems to me the root of it is that pvp folks are against the devaluation of their source of revenue for kingdom operation, while Gofs mainly wants to see his art in the game.

 

And i have to say, they are awesome works of art.  I say to you Gofs, why don't you show us some ideas of what you can do, in a separate thread? Judging from the quality of the Crow design, I'm looking forward to seeing more of your artwork.


Privyet :) 

Well, i think @Killroth
's topic is about that. If just make PMK stuff for Freedoms, that will be unfair for PvP players. So id' suggest making another thing for design at freedom. Not Wagons / Tents / Flags / Banners. In the end, this items really was made to identify kingdoms. But At freedom it's can be some sails for ships and boats, some Tapestries, maybe a bit more decorated carts, maybe some decorated furniture, Capes, and i think some hats like adventurer can have logo on them, Tabards also. And yeah as long as here no risk with making / selling, might be more expensive then to make PMK, that will also cause a value of items. And also i'd recommend to make some cooldown on creation of them. That will help prevent spawn everywhere similar items, but also effect on price. 

In the end all think that make items more expensive, should help the whole market, maybe prices on the mats will grow up aswell, i hope so, even tho i buy them / not sell 

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6 hours ago, Gofs said:

Really give some possibility to add design in the game. I understand Veterans, you might be gonna hate me till the end of times, but friends, the game needs to move forward, atm online x2 less then it was 2015 for example, that very pity.. It's mean that game moving through time didn't reach goals that would interesting for new players. and Yeah i saying about new, not about you veteran players, the course you already here... Just to keep you will not prevent the game from dying. Please, i really ask you to think a little bit about the whole game, not only about your wishes. Stop say NO to everything new, that makes you feel uncomfortable, maybe this new will bring more people, and in the end make more fun for you as well. 

Yeah, adding more wagons graphics will bring much much more players, good joke.


PMK Stuff contains coats of arms, kingdom colors etc. as a symbols of ROYALITY. Where is a royality in a kingdom founded only for items?

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How does adding more design to the game will bring more players? Do you think a player who never seen wurm will login for the first time, see your banner and instantly buy premium for a year? We need advertising, not colorful wagons

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1 hour ago, Vomusu said:

How does adding more design to the game will bring more players? Do you think a player who never seen wurm will login for the first time, see your banner and instantly buy premium for a year? We need advertising, not colorful wagons

 

You need content , and this game is very low in it .

Only thing to fill that void so far are Rifts and at times events GM team may add .

As for Gof to show more of his art work , did he submit anything wen they were looking for new tapestry , what about wall painting to hang up .

 

As to how new designs bring in players , look at new wall textures they added and roofs  , let alone paving they actualy added quite a few new players back in the time .

No it did not last long but it was bait to lure people to try it out .

 

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4 minutes ago, Damascus said:

You need content , and this game is very low in it . 

Only thing to fill that void so far are Rifts and at times events GM team may add .

 

So buying a wagon is considered 'content' now? Cool. I bet new players will be thrilled that they can pay 8euro for a banner.

My point still stands, the fact that Gofs is selling his PMK gear is not helping the community, or new players in any way. Its just a quick way to make money because he found a market which is not totally saturated yet.

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Posted (edited)

Of course it is helping the community and new players but some cant see the forest for the trees.  Adding artwork is by definition adding content.  What Gofs did is 100% legit and inspirational to both new and veteran players.  He wanted something, he paid the required entry fee to do it, and he is now providing the community with something that didn't exist before.  The game generated revenue, as it is supposed to, and the players discovered a new way to create items they want within the rules of the game if they are willing to risk pvp and spend the money to do so.  

 

I understand why the "real pvpers" are upset about this though, besides the envy and greed, they are also jealous because their silly looking art doesn't come close to what Gofs created.  If you just did a better job you wouldn't have to worry about the competition, lol.  Instead of complaining and whining, which seems to be your go-to when you face adversity, how about you hire Gofs to improve your art and maybe create more demand for your stuff?

Edited by madnezz

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Ah yes, the greed. Sure, keep repeating yourself. Dont forget to mention it on page 5. I heard if you say something 1000 times it becomes true.

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Posted (edited)

@Vomusu, @Votip, @Gladiator 

Guys, we are playing same game, if i'd accidentally met you on a street i'd be happy to shake your hand, it's about ~600 people only, playing wurm online 😕 That's sad 

In this topic, we have opposite minds, In the end you believe that graphics don't help the game, and i believe opposite, the only thing you can do > ask GMs to make me don't believe that graphic will help (joking, lol)
From another side, you saying that new players need activity if i did understand you correct < ?  I also believe so but im not so good to support from this side. 
So friends, if i may call you so, or better so-players help the game to be more popular with the way that you should be more correct and effective, i will do +1, promise! 

About this topic, it's solved itself, idea of 1% doesn't work really 😕 not something like I'm afraid of this kind of fix, just don't want Devs to spend time doing the silly job with this 1%. As and i said before making cooldown, why don't you like this idea? 
Let's take a skip now, this topic, it have so sense, my kingdom already drained, and i don't plan to make another, only if you bother me hardly ;)  (joking), your 1% idea will do nothing. So need to make new Topic with a cooldown on PMK stuff creating ;) 

And i'd be happy to help WU with design, let's make your kingdom stuff more popular ;) 

Thank you for your attention and understanding  

Edited by Gofs

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4 hours ago, Vomusu said:

 

So buying a wagon is considered 'content' now? Cool. I bet new players will be thrilled that they can pay 8euro for a banner.

My point still stands, the fact that Gofs is selling his PMK gear is not helping the community, or new players in any way. Its just a quick way to make money because he found a market which is not totally saturated yet.

Noticed you like to cut and paste just parts to fit what you want .

Chaos was to PVP , not make coin to RMT , remove all cross border selling of PMK stuff then , that would settle it for you ?

I did not think so , someone comes along whos art work is much better then you'rs  and cuts into you're profits ?

Grow up  , I think this would be worth looking since it is getting no were in you're eyes .

 

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Just now, Damascus said:

Chaos was to PVP , not make coin to RMT

That is a reason why i created this topic. As you can notice, "Crow Kingdom" wasnt created for pvp.

1 minute ago, Damascus said:

remove all cross border selling of PMK stuff then , that would settle it for you ?

TBH it would be great, but costs of deeds upkeeps, templars (they are neccesary) and res stones are too high

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I would like to start by saying that I don't do PvP but I know some people who do therefore I may be significantly biased.

 

I like the idea of PMK items being exclusive to bigger kingdoms on Chaos. If all you need to do to introduce your own design is 150s and some unfinished items on hand then it's not fair towards kingdoms which have multiple players and deeds. Are Chaos players being greedy here? Perhaps. But I do think they deserve something from it. Running those kingdoms is not cheap and these items help a little bit with their budgets.

 

Moreover, if it was more difficult to make PMK gear it wouldn't make it any less inspirational to new players. I think it's on the contrary. The higher the necessary threshold to make these items is the more respect they inspire. I'm not against new content but I think that active kingdoms on Chaos should have something to ennoble them and the items of all these kingdoms lost in the past should have some history "attached" to them a well. I still remember that when I was more newbish than I am now my good friend, Clasin, showed me some old wagons of kigdoms defeated long time ago and told stories about them. It was fascinating to look at the unique designs and listen about things and moments lost forever in time.

 

Now imagine the world where anyone can make a design for a wagon and make dozens or hundreds of copies as long as he pays enough money. The market would be overrun with different designs and the only trait distinguishing individual designs would be the art. Nobody would care to keep track of designs specific to Chaos kingdoms. Perhaps people wouldn't even bring many wagons from Chaos to PvE because nobody would want to buy them. I suppose there would be more competition for better designs but that would only make things worse for the Chaos kingdoms if they wanted to sell their own gear.

 

So in the end it's highly subjective but I believe that PMKs do deserve an oligopoly on some player made designs.

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Damascus said:

Noticed you like to cut and paste just parts to fit what you want .

 

OK i can respond to the other part too.

Quote

As for Gof to show more of his art work , did he submit anything wen they were looking for new tapestry , what about wall painting to hang up .

 

As to how new designs bring in players , look at new wall textures they added and roofs  , let alone paving they actualy added quite a few new players back in the time .

No it did not last long but it was bait to lure people to try it out . 

 

 

Roofs and textures/tapestrys/paving are free. Wagons/banners are not. Do you really think a new player, checking out the game for the first time, after paying 10s for premium is interested in buying a 15s wagon? Or a 8s banner? You cant compare that. Banners and wagons are mostly bought by collectors, veteran players who are just looking for more ways to decorate their deed.


We are selling our banners for 1.75s which is already a pretty high price for just a piece of furniture, but the cost is high because the cost of playing on pvp server is high. I didnt want to repeat myself, because i said it before. Wagons cost 15s+ because in order to actively participate in pvp and achieve something you need vast amounts of money, and thats pretty much the only reliable way for a kingdom to make money and it has been like that for a long time. We're not gonna sell the pvp loot because we're using it so the only thing left for us to generate income is selling the PMK gear or HOTA statues but the market is so saturated with hotas that it's hard to sell any for a reasonable price.

If you remove the cross border selling, in order to keep our deeds, we would have to buy gold every month just to exist. Thats why we sell wagons. We get money for upkeep (not for personal gain) and people get a fancy wagon. I dont understand how is it greedy, if the game forces you to plant 10 deeds just to be on the same level as your enemy. You need deeds to hold land, you need deeds to defend and you need deeds to attack.

 

 

54 minutes ago, Gofs said:

Guys, we are playing same game, if i'd accidentally met you on a street i'd be happy to shake your hand, it's about ~600 people only, playing wurm online 😕 That's sad 

 

Maybe my posts were a bit aggresive but I have nothing against you personally. I would surely be happy to shake your hand, as this is just a forum discussion. You found a way to get your graphics into the game and you did it without breaking any rules. My main point is that if you want to be on a PVP server, you should PVP. Thats why we're looking for a solution to that. The system thats in place now isnt perfect, and it's unchanged for such a long time that I really doubt that we're gonna see any changes but at least we sparked a discussion. The 1month cooldown would probably by the easiest solution. Im mostly irritated by people calling pvp players greedy, when I delivered 50+ wagons,banners and tents and got nothing from it. All the money went to the kingdom so we can play on the pvp server and have a fighting chance. In order to fix all this drama surrounding wagon sales, we would need some major changes.

Edited by Vomusu

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Posted (edited)

About pvp at Chaos, my main goal was mine design < yes, but on a way i met 6 guys, Reemus and his friends, they wanted play pvp so we started to prepare land for it, i wanted to call more people, but guys who i know and was able to call, well some of them already in kingdoms, some of them left the game at all 😕 And before about 1 week Reemus with freinds stopped to show's  up in game, and stop responding me in discord. I was upset, but my goal in the end was my graphic. So i found another place, and build there guard tower, to make pmk. 
I really wished to make the Crow Kingdom as pvp kingdom, reason why i spend so much time on tabards. But well that not happen 

Edited by Gofs

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So what you are saying is the baddies on Chaos wouldnt let a new kingdom grow and have fun pvping?

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Nope... it's more like reall pvp kingdom need people who really have wish to pvp. Before it created. Not like "well i create it, now i will call people just to join to we somehow will pvp", no.. I think new pvp kingdom always should have the founders who will create ideology of kingdom, rules, and keep eye on joined after players if they look like a part.  I think it's a bigg mistake to pick players for numbers, if they even dont follow your ideology, even tho pvp dictate that to us, its a shame whan some players are rude or toxic to they enemys, they must be removed from kingdom... And all of that need time and wishes, you need to trust where it needed, you need to control where it needed, it's big responsibility, and im not really ready to be leader, i see my self more like person who can suggest something, but not lead people. That what i saying.. To make PMK need to collect people who you trust, and make a plan, and then follow it (my opinion) 

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