Flubb

Global cast waiting list for Benediction

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Hi,

name: Sepalia

Smeagain Priest RoS

89,9 faith 

62 Chaneling

https://imgur.com/a/oSU52V0

 

Im east time

I got an alt that is only a battery if needed smeagain also.

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hi name: glamour

holy crop 

Nahjo

100 faith

89 channeling

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Minutes after it being discussed in kchat, Holy Crop was sniped just like Rite of Spring was before even half of the people on the roster could respond, let alone read the message.

 

It's okay. I'll just start up 15 Fo alts again and pray for hours on end because that's the only way to get this going for other people who don't give a crap where the stuff they take comes from. You're welcome.

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2 hours ago, Flubb said:

Minutes after it being discussed in kchat, Holy Crop was sniped just like Rite of Spring was before even half of the people on the roster could respond, let alone read the message.

 

It's okay. I'll just start up 15 Fo alts again and pray for hours on end because that's the only way to get this going for other people who don't give a crap where the stuff they take comes from. You're welcome.

I do hope you reported the player responsible for this as a thief?

We just had a page of discussions about this kind of behaviour and aparently some players don't want to learn that when something is s'posed to be done as a team effort, there is no room for selfishness.


I do however apreciate your efforts to keep this going on as a team event.

 

Thorin :)

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The mechanics allow it. The rules may, or may not allow it depending on your interpretation of the griefing statue. 

 

The appropriate action would be for the mods to replace the entry with a self determinant and non-competitive  task. The current requirement just sews discord and discontent. 

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Sorry for the quick follow up post,  but I too wish to applaud your generous, and unfortunately, Pyrrhic efforts. I don't disagree with the sentiment, just I feel the blame is being foist upon the wrong party.

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Posted (edited)

I have a suggestion, please at least consider it.

 

How about NOT prioritizing by x or y, with the result of waiting for offline players (because it doesn't work too well, does it!), but instead, make a pool of interested players, and send them a forum PM when it's available and/or ingame shout. Make the cast when enough come online and contact you.

 

It will not work for everyone every time, but that's kind of the point, there's a maximum of players who can get it at one time anyway. It will work for someone when they're both informed and able to come online.

 

You don't need alts. Just players who are online or, when notified, come online and get the thing done. Waiting 11 hours for the cast has proven, again, unrealistic, given how damn easy it is for a competing group to gather.

Edited by Anarres

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1 hour ago, Anarres said:

I have a suggestion, please at least consider it.

 

Try NOT to prioritize by x or y, with the result of waiting for offline players, but instead, make a pool of interested players, and send them a forum PM when it's available. Make the cast when enough come online and contact you.

 

It will not work for everyone every time, but that's kind of the point, there's a maximum of players who can get it at one time anyway. It will work for someone when they're both informed and able to come online and contact.

 

You don't need alts. Just players who are online or, when notified, come online and get the thing done. Waiting 11 hours for the cast has proven, again, unrealistic, given how damn easy it is for a competing group to gather.

 

I can see why this would arguably work better; but for whom?

 

This is pretty much the way I operated the first cast in a panic and it left people disappointed - rightfully so. It is just one step up from the same old elbow-y tactics that everyone following the lower instincts will use. The kind of tactics we explicitly want to avoid using here.

Sure, perhaps the caster today hadn't felt the need to snipe if I didn't tell them we're full. At the same time, if I operate it this way, it comes down to being lucky that you're online at the time; all that's improved is that there will be an attempt to maximize the link usage. And from that first botched cast, I can tell you this is a good intention that may be left unfullfilled regardless.

The problem with "having to be lucky" is that this way, you may or may not be on this list, if I didn't have enough people on the roster, I'll get them from kchat in a last desperate effort. So the queue will be completely moot this way, because even signing up it will by definition not guarantee you that an effort will be made to include you. You can look earlier in this thread to see some of the comments about the first cast and why it's really taking the highest of roads or degenerating in a public sniping group. That's just the sad truth behind the current mechanisms.

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It really sounds like there being a maximum number of links is the current main problem that forces the community to fight each other in regards to rites, and based on what I saw the two casting groups may have casted together as one otherwise. The mechanic forces tearing apart of community instead of working together. 

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25 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

It really sounds like there being a maximum number of links is the current main problem that forces the community to fight each other in regards to rites, and based on what I saw the two casting groups may have casted together as one otherwise. The mechanic forces tearing apart of community instead of working together. 

 

Absolutely. Had just read that I told the caster "they weren't welcome" which leaves me absolutely livid as I'd have loved nothing more than to have them link up aswell, avoid any possible drama and help them with the goal aswell in the process. But I can't. Not without rolling over someone else in the process. It's a lose-lose-situation trying to organize this publicly and long-term. Are we just supposed to fight eachother over it and feel miserable?

 

Hell, without the limit, even multiple casts would be an okay goal.

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I can see why the limit is a problem, but, we have it for now. It's current mechanics, that you folks need to work with. And there's something else. In my perception (as accidental witness in Freedom) , a big  problem here was waiting for offline players for 11 hours. Think about it. Eleven hours of no one noticing it's ready to cast, is it realistic? Once someone else started gathering  people for the cast, you weren't dealing with "a sniper" anymore. You were dealing with a competing group. Does it work to insist on waiting for offline people, rather than work with online people - who all need the cast? It didn't work for offline people today, anyway, they're still without the cast till next time....

 

I dunno, I'm just trying to suggest to adapt to the current mechanics, wouldn't it work for more people? OKay, in another order than you feel ideal, but wouldn't it have a better chance to work?

 

It would be down to luck - whoever sees the email and can get online -, but their order is down to luck, order in which each needing it gets it. Not getting the cast "ever". Those who can't make it and can't make it, will make it when the whole thing slows down - as it likely will. Do you really believe that some would NEVER have a chance?

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Anarres said:

Do you really believe that some would NEVER have a chance? 

 

Theoretically yes, this is exactly the crux. One may be indefinitely excluded when the cast is always done within but a few hours. And practically...let's just say I don't share your optimism.

 

Also, they attempted to gather people but I'm pretty sure they didn't use all links by far, given the time they "arranged" it in.

 

Either way, I maintain that what you propose is just one step up from elbowing your way to the goal - not with complete disregard to others but a "benevolent indifference" at best.

I'm not a complete idealist though. It's still better than nothing, which the what the current "meta" amounts to. You'll have to wait for all links to be taken though, or it just comes off as another guerilla cast. This can take time, more than you may imagine. Time during which a snipe can also happen - because some people won't care to cooperate even under these circumstances. To todays casters credit, they don't fall into this group and I hope the links were maximally used despite my grim prediction that they weren't.

It's just that, from a principled position, it's difficult to make a difference in this when you don't behave different at all...the problem with publicly organized casts is that they'll be held to different standards than the rogue casts that are unfortunately the norm. How long will you wait for someone on the list? Will anyone online who's not on the list just get preferrential treatment? What's the point of the list then? Or any attempt on premeditated organization? The best it provides is that I know who to forum PM in the dim hope that they aren't ingame anyway, but can show up on short notice - or else be replaced by someone else. Which, as you can imagine

This adjustment isn't easily made without calling the legitimacy of public organization in question. If this comes off as arbitrary elbowing, just done brazenly in "public", people will just revert to rogue casts as nothing seems to be gained from here anyway, because even those meaning well will not be accomodated. And those who only care for themselves will ruin it for the rest either way.

Would have worked better for todays scenario, sure. But what's the implication for those signing up here if it was handled that way? Not so much a rhetorical question, but would people who signed up here be okay with it being handled this way? I know a couple who'll say no, and I understandp erfectly why, I'm trying realyl hard here to outline those reasons, but just from a pragmatic viewpoint...Anarres may have a point and we need to use those elbows a bit.

 

But honestly? I'd have this thread closed down then and just ask in kchat when a ritual is up and that's it. I might set up a different system to subscribe to Rituals being available that just "fires and forgets" at everyone involved at a given time so they may have a shot at coming online when they otherwise wouldn't have. But this thread would become pretty moot. Which I'm honestly fine with at this point.

Opinions on that by people on the roster?

Edited by Flubb

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Posted (edited)
On 8/11/2019 at 12:11 AM, Flubb said:

But honestly? I'd have this thread closed down then and just ask in kchat when a ritual is up and that's it. I might set up a different system to subscribe to Rituals being available that just "fires and forgets" at everyone involved at a given time so they may have a shot at coming online when they otherwise wouldn't have. But this thread would become pretty moot. Which I'm honestly fine with at this point.

Opinions on that by people on the roster?

 

As far as I'm concerned, this thread has already succeeded. Flubb, you've gone above and beyond what any player should have had to do in order to prove irrefutably that the current rite mechanics are anathema to open, pro-community cooperation. You single-handedly provided a large part, if not the majority, of the server favour for recent rites on Xanadu. Thanks to this thread and the efforts of your Flubbregation, the devs have now had it demonstrated to them that pre-planned open-invite organized casts are futile. I call that a job well done. None of us on the roster was ever owed anything, so in my opinion however you want to move forward is up to you. But from a practical standpoint, I no longer see any sense in pre-scheduled casts.

Edited by Gwyn
Clarity
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I have two priests in training who I haven't signed up yet as still to hit 50 prayer/channeling so a good bit away from the journal goal. However I think it's always going to be useful to see who else is needing the rites, so I would encourage to keep the thread going for that purpose if nothing else.

 

Regarding scheduling the rites, can only hope as the backlog of priests waiting goes down this may get easier. I would probably tend to accepting the rite going as soon as a minimum number of those waiting are online and not waiting half a day for more to be online. Unfair on those been waiting longer or those who have less playtime, but the deity pool will complete on a random day and random time and noone is otherwise in better or worse position for it. Waiting longer looks clear the rite will go elsewhere.

 

I am kind of torn on the suggestions threads, my Fo's logs show he put in 12k of the prayers to last Holy Crop but he's not ready to cast the rite. Should i really get a journal credit when i am doing the praying for 70 prayer anyway? +5 to all casts is amazing and to some extent should be difficult to achieve.  Think i am more likely to +1 the window to re-cast for journal update as that is something needs at least a little organising and getting together with others too.

 

Well done on initiating this thread in the first place :)

 

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Posted (edited)

Well no point sitting on the fence about it.  It genuinely won't work. The least that should be done is trying to maximize the links when it's up and do it ASAP.

I still see possible conflict when two groups form and either one cannot fully be incorporated into the other, but we can just hope this won't happen (often).

It's actually rather difficult to get 10 priests on the spot, as I said myself, and as critics have rightfully said implying that the groups last time could have "worked together" (by ditching the whole concept and treading over the people here)

 

Therefore, I call it quits. Can't bring myself to gouge the virtue out of this another time because it'll just end in more snipes, more frustration, and more time wasted for the people on the roster. I'll keep any eye on the rituals, some toons tied to altars to do at least some charging here and there, and notify people of when it's going on via forum so that they may have a chance of catching it or giving feedback when they are online, but not ingame. Going beyond that just excacerbates the conflict potential that the system already provides. Thanks for sticking around. You can still put yourself in the list for transparencies sake - so that even when I'm off and a ritual is up, people may contact the roster to get the maximum number of priests online, but the lists will henceforth fulfill no other function than that.

 

In conclusion

739228bc3981c1a419c8c5480d5baf42.png

Edited by Flubb
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But that doesn't mean we cannot celebrate a bit for those who get through with this dreadful thing under this modus operandi.

 

Congrats to

 

Oisin

Rabidscab

Aramisii

Sepalia

Jeangraton

Crocus

 

For casting Ritual of the Sun and finishing Benediction or being a massive step closer to it.

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Posted (edited)

Ritual of the Sun:

 

Cherryontop: 100 faith, 67channeling

and Sizar: 95 faith, 17 channeling

 

Rite of Spring:

 

Sumdumguy: 100 faith, 91,5 channeling

Persong: 91,55 faith, 54 channeling

 

Can either contact those toons directly or pm Macoofer, as they are all me ;)

 

Timezone  UTC+1 Central Europe

Edited by MacOofer

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Hi I'm Wiolo, I'm Pacific time, have 100 faith, and have 78 channelling ( which is rapidly increasing)

I need to do a Rite of Death cast/link. Thank you.

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I'm, well, me.  Etherdrifter

GMT

100 faith, 80 channeling (nearly 81, but it is slow going)

Fo, Holy Crop

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