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Darklords

A New Elevation

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The 1 hour KD isn't enough, you need RESISTANCE.

Why does 1 Hour KD matter if a typical fight lasts 15 minutes.
For example. There are 5 enemy on me and 5 enemy True strike. Why does the CD matter at this point, I'm dead. 

make it resistance, so you can coordinate the spells better - Xx cast true strike on, xx, then Xo, cast true strike on OX - managing who's on wat cd and who's on what resistance is better than a flat 1 hour CD that does nothing.

Edited by Mclavin
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ACTUALLY DISABLE THE TOMES, WHY ARE THEY EVEN A THING OMG I JUST REMEMBERED

 

THAT THE SAME AMOUNT OF PEOPLE

WANT THE TOMES DISABLED

AS THEY DO A MAP RESET

 

MAKE ANOTHER POLL!

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Could always just temporarily disable the creation of sorcery staffs on the new Elevation.

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9 hours ago, Darklords said:

With another full reset likely coming near the end of the year 

If "full reset" includes a skill reset and a wipe of the home servers, there's going to be a lot less support for it than there was for the Elevation wipe.

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3 hours ago, BrokenSanity said:

If "full reset" includes a skill reset and a wipe of the home servers, there's going to be a lot less support for it than there was for the Elevation wipe.

There's a lot more involved, and rest assured it will be discussed completely, we don't have any details beyond plans of what we'd like to see happen, we can discuss those when it's time to. 

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5 hours ago, BrokenSanity said:

If "full reset" includes a skill reset and a wipe of the home servers, there's going to be a lot less support for it than there was for the Elevation wipe.

 

I understand the call for skill resets, so that it would be a clean slate for everyone on Epic, it'd also require the end of Freedom to Epic skills transfer mechanics, and possibly another round of skill transfers from Epic to Freedom, for those who didn't wish to continue on Epic, or wished to preserve their skills for Freedom, while accepting an Epic wipe.

 

From the beginning the Home servers have been a contentious issue, not just between the opposing Kingdoms, but between the Kingdoms themselves on Home and Elevation servers, but removing them from Epic is not the answer, in truth, without the home servers there is no difference essentially between Elevation and Chaos other than the small differences in mechanics, and the connection to Freedom Isles, the Home servers are one of the major factors that made Epic so different and attractive for me personally, a view shared by many of those who spent years playing almost exclusively on them.

 

I also understand the importance that the PvP community places on Elevation, it's a PvP cluster after all, but that emphasis on 'pure' PvP need not be at the expense of those players who value Wurm not just for one aspect of it's play.

 

So by all means, wipe the home servers in the quest for a 'pure' PvP server, and accept that it will diminish much of Epic's unique character and style, or return things like ore caps to lead Home server players to Elevation, rather than force players into a 'our way or the highway' approach which will lead to many like me, soft-PvP players, to abandon the cluster altogether, few though we are, at present Home server players far outnumber Elevation players, and for myself, I'd rather retreat permanently to Freedom than be forced to play on Elevation for the sake of 'purity' and PvP ethos.

 

A smaller Elevation has a lot of potential to revitalise Epic, at least in the short term, while the Dev team work on other aspects of PvP, I am supportive of change where Epic is concerned, frankly, it's never been more in need of a refreshing of interest, the Elevation map is to large for the population it served, and even a 1K map would serve the population of Epic at present, so a 2K map will certainly suffice for what will initially be a rise in population, ( it's keeping the population that has been the issue), and if followed by a rework of PvP mechanics that can keep momentum going, I see no reason why a full reset of Elevation would not be a success. For Elevation at least.

 

We'll always have a disparity between 'top tier' accounts and new players, new players not only have to settle in, learn the game and survive, but also learn to take defeat from enemies they cannot hope to best , in some cases it may take months, or years to reach the stage where they can function effectively against old, veteran PvP players, I don't believe there are any shortcuts to that process, even full skill resets won't prevent experienced players outskilling and bounding ahead of the new players, since veteran PvP players know how to build a PvP character far more effectively than the average Wurmian, (I include myself in the average category), we saw this when Epic first began, with everyone starting from scratch and within a few short weeks the veterans outstripped the inexperienced and that gap. if anything, widened over the ensuing years, so skill resets will be ineffective or counter productive in equalling the playing field for old and new players.

 

Most of the other tweaks are squarely aimed at experienced top tier players anyway, I don't bother much with hellies, never seen a tome, and never took advantage of the higher levels of meditation, while they may be welcomed by PvP players who are a bit bored and feel the need for a level playing field in top tier, they don't have much effect on average players like me, I welcome those changes for what they are, but if there were to be a skill reset, those changes would be unnecessary for a long time.

 

Anyway, we'll see what we get I suppose, just had to put in a comment explaining my vote in favour of change, and slap the inevitable 'delete home servers' crowd with an alternative viewpoint.

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I think that a lot of people see the homeservers as like a trap that people fall into.  The homeservers have no real downside, so people will live on them and settle and build and then get attached to their deeds there, which then deters them from heading over to try pvp on Elevation, and then the Elevation players die out from lack of new recruits.  Its hard to convince people to come over to help fight and raid and conquer on Elevation when they don't want to leave behind what they built for themselves on the homeserver.  A lot of people then never actually get into pvp on Elevation, often setting artificial barriers for themselves like "when i finish this deed" or "when i get x body strength", all the while remaining on the homeserver for the safety it provides, and by the time they surpassed their own artificial entry barriers to pvp, elevation has died off.  

 

In short, try Elevation. Do it while you still can, don't wait and miss your chance.  You are good enough to make it there. Everyone is.

Edited by Alexgopen
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The answer to the home servers and PVP is to give them the ability to affect combat on Elevation while also being the kingdom islands they are today.  The home islands become supply points for the main fight. 

 

Using Serenity for the home server example, could be any server.

 

As an example, farm corn on Serenity, using a ship transport it to a depot on Elevation (open field combat opportunity). When the corn is transferred to the depot it is consumed by granting the kingdom's elevation combat troops a small combat bonus for a period of time. Repeat the cycle to keep the bonus. 

 

Have Elevation have a very rough environment so weapons wear out quicker. Make it so weapons made on Serenity and transferred to Elevation receive a bonus against damage (or perhaps have a special paste made that can be applied to weapon to do same thing - again only craftable on home islands).

 

The key is to better connect the home islands to the fight while still allowing people who prefer living on the islands to remain there if they want to. Also makes the home islands a bigger target for raids (to cut supply of corn for example).

 

The problem with the current home servers in my mind is that the job isn't done, the integration isn't complete, make it more relevant and more combat ops will happen. 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Nappy said:

The answer to the home servers and PVP is to give them the ability to affect combat on Elevation while also being the kingdom islands they are today.  The home islands become supply points for the main fight. 

 

Using Serenity for the home server example, could be any server.

 

As an example, farm corn on Serenity, using a ship transport it to a depot on Elevation (open field combat opportunity). When the corn is transferred to the depot it is consumed by granting the kingdom's elevation combat troops a small combat bonus for a period of time. Repeat the cycle to keep the bonus. 

 

Have Elevation have a very rough environment so weapons wear out quicker. Make it so weapons made on Serenity and transferred to Elevation receive a bonus against damage (or perhaps have a special paste made that can be applied to weapon to do same thing - again only craftable on home islands).

 

The key is to better connect the home islands to the fight while still allowing people who prefer living on the islands to remain there if they want to. Also makes the home islands a bigger target for raids (to cut supply of corn for example).

 

The problem with the current home servers in my mind is that the job isn't done, the integration isn't complete, make it more relevant and more combat ops will happen. 

 

 

At that point we start getting into long term ideas, but it's an interesting one. 

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19 hours ago, Nappy said:

The answer to the home servers and PVP is to give them the ability to affect combat on Elevation while also being the kingdom islands they are today.  The home islands become supply points for the main fight. 

 

Why would any player on a home server want to do that? Players play a game because they like it, not because they are meant to act as serfs for other players on another server.

 

19 hours ago, Nappy said:

The problem with the current home servers in my mind is that the job isn't done, the integration isn't complete, make it more relevant and more combat ops will happen. 

 

From when I played on Serenity I cannot follow your reasoning:

 

- Many players on home servers do not want to be integrated into whatever happens on Elevation. To them integration is a bad thing.

- Many players on home servers do not want more combat ops - if they wanted that they would not be on a home server.

 

I think we really need to get away from the idea that home servers are some sort of colonial islands, only there to provide players on Elevation with resources, gear and fresh victims. Like I wrote in another post: to the best of my knowledge the home servers have always seen more population than Elevation ever has. Yet, over the years,  people have always come up with ideas how to reduce the numbers of players there.

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43 minutes ago, Eobersig said:

 

Why would any player on a home server want to do that? Players play a game because they like it, not because they are meant to act as serfs for other players on another server.

 

 

From when I played on Serenity I cannot follow your reasoning:

 

- Many players on home servers do not want to be integrated into whatever happens on Elevation. To them integration is a bad thing.

- Many players on home servers do not want more combat ops - if they wanted that they would not be on a home server.

 

I think we really need to get away from the idea that home servers are some sort of colonial islands, only there to provide players on Elevation with resources, gear and fresh victims. Like I wrote in another post: to the best of my knowledge the home servers have always seen more population than Elevation ever has. Yet, over the years,  people have always come up with ideas how to reduce the numbers of players there.

Never thought of players as serfs before so not my intention.

 

Truth is that players will do what they want regardless of designer intent however the design could include elements that would allow home servers to play a role in the fight too. 

 

Of course this means there has to be some reward element included for home server people so that there is something in it for them as well. 

 

I recall reading Rolf's original vision for the game. I remember it being like a life journal or career log where the player goes through progression from personal skill growth, to village life to eventually joining the kingdom combat and then eventually retiring back to the home servers after a successful war career.

 

This idea is meant to extend on that vision, realize it to some degree and somewhat bridge the gulf that currently exists between hard core elevation and sandbox home servers.

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players on the home servers have to care to give Corn in the first place, because they couldn't be be arsed to come over and fight when capitals needed it, theres a long history there but it comes down to home servers only wanting to drop a deed and live on a slightly more dangerous pvp server, if enemy came along they'd literally log off, so why do we think they'd risk their skills sailing to Elevation to give people they don't care for, a bonus?

 

I think you'd have to create an incentive for the Home server to do it in the first place that rewards THEM personally. Karma, sleep bonus, who knows.

But defo would work with a Give something Get something mentality.

Edited by Mclavin
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Maybe deity, that wins a scenario, should also boost it's kingdom on Elevation in some way? Some sort of combat bonuses, small speed bonus for boats etc.? Many possibilities.

 

This way, people doing missions on home servers, could help those on Elevation, while earning karma/sleep bonus/rewards anyway.

 

Could be even done, that each particular mission completion give some bonus for Ele. This way even if scenario looks bad for one side (looks like no chances to win), players could still "buff" their kingdom on Ele.

Edited by Wilczan
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1 hour ago, Mclavin said:

players on the home servers have to care to give Corn in the first place, because they couldn't be be arsed to come over and fight when capitals needed it, there's a long history there but it comes down to home servers only wanting to drop a deed and live on a slightly more dangerous pvp server, if enemy came along they'd literally log off, so why do we think they'd risk their skills sailing to Elevation to give people they don't care for, a bonus?

 

I think you'd have to create an incentive for the Home server to do it in the first place that rewards THEM personally. Karma, sleep bonus, who knows.

But defo would work with a Give something Get something mentality.

 

Leaving aside the semi-toxic Us Vs Them attitude that was part of daily life in JKH-JKE for so long, I always hoped that the Valrei mission system would give Home server players and Elevation players an incentive to work together, and, in fact, I often participated in missions with that in mind, helping JKE achieve it's Valrei goals, rather than hoping for personal rewards on Serenity. Some similar mechanism that rewarded both, and contributed to the 'war effort' should be beneficial to both Home and Elevation.

 

The initial set up of Epic, with the ore caps 'to encourage trading and movement between servers' simply didn't work, because like it or not, the Home server population mostly wanted PVE+, rather than PvP light, Serenity felt darker and more dangerous than the sunny glades of Freedom, and us Home players appreciated this. As Eobersig has hinted, there was, for whatever reason, an attitude that Home server players were inferior, we were Freedumbers, even to our own Kingdom on Elevation, and some people took that personally, on both sides.

 

So any means of increasing cooperation between Home and Elevation that does not make either 'side' feel they are being used or forced into a particular role would be greatly welcomed be me personally, we all play Wurm for our own reasons, we all have our own preferences, and our own style, none of us should feel forced by other players to conform to an ideal that we don't enjoy. After all, Wurm is a game, if we're not enjoying the experience, then why are we bothering?

 

And I'm totally not getting into the reasons why the JKH-JKE schism began, or why it affected almost all of my time on Epic, suffice to say, there was fault on both sides, and a lot of intolerance for different styles of play, because the game itself fostered a sense of difference between Elevation and Home, the Ore cap was just one of the examples of how the game forced JK apart, rather than bringing it together, by creating a sense of envy and frustration in getting materials to advance crafting skills.

 

If Home servers are thought of as superfluous then we need to ask how we can make them relevant to the entire Epic game, rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater.

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Two things, to avoid quote massacre I will just make a post.

 

1. Removal of Tomes entirely is totally fine with me, I wouldn't hate a poll.

 

2. Instead of a skill "reset" the best possible scenario might be keeping skills separate between home servers and elevation? Unless of course home servers are still to function the same way they do now than a complete reset is not only preferred but entirely necessary. Think Release and Celebration before combination with the rest of freedom.

Edited by FranktheTank

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Home servers should be a good place for new players to start. Some will migrate to Elevation, and some won't. Trying to force the population that would prefer home server gameplay to instead play on Elevation isn't going to work, though.

 

As to a skill reset, if we keep our skills, I'll probably give the new Ele a shot. If not, I'll probably pass.

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1 hour ago, Roccandil said:

Home servers should be a good place for new players to start. Some will migrate to Elevation, and some won't. Trying to force the population that would prefer home server gameplay to instead play on Elevation isn't going to work, though.

 

As to a skill reset, if we keep our skills, I'll probably give the new Ele a shot. If not, I'll probably pass.

If you wanna try ele, you should upvote for a skill reset in the long term. If you go to ele now you will get one shot by truestrike.

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5 minutes ago, wiildiie said:

If you wanna try ele, you should upvote for a skill reset in the long term. If you go to ele now you will get one shot by truestrike.

 

I've -got- Truestrike. :P (And Continuum, and 70+ strength, and so on....)

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2 hours ago, Roccandil said:

 

I've -got- Truestrike. :P (And Continuum, and 70+ strength, and so on....)

Well hey you did make the choice to play on a server you knew was at the very least, on its deathbed.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, FranktheTank said:

Well hey you did make the choice to play on a server you knew was at the very least, on its deathbed.

 

Not according to the developers.

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yeah i like to lie to myself also

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it's so far into the game that new players don't really have a chance to get into it. A skill wipe would put everyone on a level field and give the game a chance for new players to even give it a try. trying to join a game that it takes years to be close to a level playing field isn't appealing to most people. I think a map wipe is very encouraging to the existing player base, but to get new players to wurm a skill wipe or challenge server is needed. #learnfromthegurn

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Honestly you might have something.

 

No skill reset, gotta agree.

 

This change is strictly based on my own personal preference and time to play the game.

Edited by FranktheTank

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22 hours ago, Eobersig said:

Why would any player on a home server want to do that? Players play a game because they like it, not because they are meant to act as serfs for other players on another server.

 

It struck me more as a support role. As someone usually defaulting to the position on MOBAs, @Nappy's idea sounded rather intruiging to me honestly. The stress of full loot PvP isn't for me exactly, but having a sword with my signature out there made for a greater cause feels pretty cool from a roleplaying aspect. For weapons and gears I'd like it more if soldiers had a decent way to come to a deed, browse its shop, bring something in return - loot from the battlefield that can be salvaged, stuff from HotA that could act as a kind of secondary currency for deed bonuses or ingredients of said oils/enhancements for gear. Or other "nice things" that are designed specifically to fit well on a home server but wouldn't be very expedient to have in full on PvP. Charged necklaces and rings that help with crafting, harvesting, and the like you do in "PvE" for instance.

 

Not to be neccessarily exchanged in direct, market orientied trades, but more like mutually helping eachother in helping eachother. Make someone decent weapons and armour and tools so they can better get loot for you, which in return helps you make better gear for them. :)

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I am fairly concerned about the future of Truestrike + Large Weapon hits on the new server. As well as the already popular/unpopular priest changes.

 

Personally just so you know where I stand:

 

Remove player gods, original 4 only.

Keep parts of new changes people like, remove parts people dislike.

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