Why was PvP abandoned?

[Quicktor 1,348]

1 hour ago, Ayes said:

words

 

=Ayes=

 

all you are basically saying is how PvE won the attention of the devs shortly after the game was created, proven by numbers, yadda yadda

by your logic though, why would people come back just for some new amphoras?

why would they want to build a 10th deed that is just gonna sit there, while you are away tending your 5000 tile farm?

 

on the other hand you have motives on the pvp side that go way further than just the above...

 

i am not trying to imply any group of those 2 is the superior, simply put though, what the hell are you even talking about?

you do realize that at some point (before valrei and everything that came with it, hence why we want it to go back to that game state in PvP) it was the same amount of players on both of those sides, right?

 

the point that there arent enough players on the PvP side to pursue fixing shortcomings of that area is just ######, just like i and many others said 3 years ago, our friendlist on steam / discord says otherwise

if it goes in the right direction, pvp players would be back in a heart beat, but it doesnt go in the right direction.....far from it in fact

retro might come by and say "Feel free to share your thoughts and concerns in areas pvp needs attention." but thats been done at least 100 times and the dev team sure knows about it, ausimus and darklords being in one of the chaos kingdoms and coming from epic initially

 

so the problem that nothing has gone in that direction, rather going back to the roots of pvp, has to be somewhere within the decisions made by budda

some might think i would lean too far out the window by saying the current focus isnt getting us anywhere (you can see the impact in premium numbers, could see it 2 years ago aswell), but who knows maybe i am wrong

Edited May 21, 2019 by Quicktor

[FranktheTank 1,901]

The problem with ayes posts is the mist of pseudo-intellectual hogwash that permeate the very essence of the topic being described. They can manage to take a 1 sentence opinion and drag it on the length of a fantasy novel. It has been and always will be a tired act.

 

How do you expect people to take anything you say seriously?

[Bradcub 107]

I was thinking about this today and when I originally joined wurm to play on epic it was with a clan that I played with on M&B.Our group of new players was about 30 people. Just our group. I cant even imagine 30 active players in one fight anymore I mean our group would have doubled most of the player pops on the freedom servers today.

 

Imagine if pvp got the love it needs and the right advertising. I truly doubt wurm would have any player population issues. I really cant think of another game quite as unique as wurm when it comes to pvp experience and was the sole reason why I started playing. 

 

It makes me really sad to see the way things are. I truly believe Code Club have an awesome opportunity and I cant believe how they are squandering it. 

 

Feels bad knowing that new players don't get to experience the same new player environment that I had when I first played. Its probably the only reason why I still play today.  

[Damascus 374]

Is there a list of whats wrong and whats good in PVP ?

What players want and dev's can  do ?

Don't need 40 different topics , as is  it's like trying to read encyclopedia and no index .

 

Need a bullet point list no straying off topic .

Because as I see it now the way the population in Wurm  , Epic wont see any thing for couple years other then money back for deeds and a eviction notice to players .

 

Add all the eye candy you want , if there is not much content players wont bothered playing .

As is now wen I log in all I see is a blue line skilling and it starting to look like a hearth beat monitor with longer beeps inbetween  , just waiting for the flatline .

 

 

[Quicktor 1,348]

11 minutes ago, Damascus said:

Is there a list of whats wrong and whats good in PVP ?

What players want and dev's can  do ?

Don't need 40 different topics , as is  it's like trying to read encyclopedia and no index .

 

Need a bullet point list no straying off topic .

Because as I see it now the way the population in Wurm  , Epic wont see any thing for couple years other then money back for deeds and a eviction notice to players .

 

Add all the eye candy you want , if there is not much content players wont bothered playing .

As is now wen I log in all I see is a blue line skilling and it starting to look like a hearth beat monitor with longer beeps inbetween  , just waiting for the flatline .

 

its not like there wasnt ever a list

and while we had those lists, some of them even collected personally by retrograde back then who talked to every kingdom in their voice comms at the time, the bigger points were never adressed...

 

people are sick of making a list whats wrong with this game every few months

it always ends up in retro telling us that some of those points were adressed, others are in the works, and others arent realistic....except this time we have the clear answer that nothing will happen before 2020, feels good right?

 

i can remember retro saying after the big epic update, that after "testing things out and letting things run for a while" they would consider a new map, yet here we are

and a new map is just the easiest thing

[Retrograde 12,013]

6 minutes ago, Quicktor said:

can remember retro saying after the big epic update, that after "testing things out and letting things run for a while" they would consider a new map, yet here we are

and a new map is just the easiest thing

Just a new map? With all the existing mechanics and features? 

[Quicktor 1,348]

thats not what i or anybody else said

a new map is part of it, yes

 

but just like @Mclovinhas suggested, while you cant work on pvp for the moment, you can at least give us that new map so we can start to build deeds and such

i am pretty sure if you think a little bit or go back to your notes you gathered through all these feedback threads you will see fast enough that the majority of pvp'ers is rooting for 2011-2013 as a game state

 

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Quicktor

[Ekcin 2,407]

18 hours ago, MrGARY said:

 

Are you justifying pve toxicity especially yours against pvp, when pve players are saying that pvp players should tell them why they should try pvp but those threads attempting to do so are ruined by said pve toxicity vs pvp?  Pve toxicity vs pvp does not help the game at all, nor does pvp toxicity vs pve, but I'm not seeing a whole lot of that one.

 

As to me, I do not justify any toxicity, be it against PvP, PvE, or the devs and staff. And yes, there is hostility, mistrust, and prejudice against PvP and PvP players. It is widespread not only in the PvE community, but beyond it in the general public, and there it is a subset of mistrust and prejudice against computer gamers (and partially, especially in the past, against computers and IT staff in general).

 

Computer games are often seen as the pastime of wierdos, psychically or behaviorally challenged etc. people, "killer games" blamed e.g. for every school massacre or amok (at least in case muslims can't be blamed). PvP players are often considered the ones "killing people" etc. Btw. PvP players' venom against "carebears" doesn't really help to close or at least bridge such chasms. Nor does the attitude to "roleplay" the tough, hard, and cynical guy, even here in the forums. And well, "Freedumbers" is just a friendly teasing?

 

But two, three, or more wrongs do neither make a right, nor does the one or the ones justify any of the other. Granted everyone holds some prejudice, but sticking to just pointing to others' prejudice is no solution.

[Retrograde 12,013]

Which is a major project and thus not something we are able to do quickly. That's the crux of the issue here, that major works like that are a significant expenditure  of dev time and testing time and that time is currently allocated to something else that will help us make further steps once it is in

[Quicktor 1,348]

i swear, if you are coming with any new carpet cape textures or new kind of racks in the next few months, i cant help but say all you have been saying here was ######...

lets see what these future updates are though i guess

[Retrograde 12,013]

There's plenty in the works, minor changes and additions may be a part of it, but none of this is minor. The major one has no racks, maybe a carpet or two 

[Madnath 3,113]

7 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

The major one has no racks, maybe a carpet or two 

I'm lazy and made this in 2 minutes

 

Spoiler

 

[Bloodscythe 2,225]

58 minutes ago, Quicktor said:

i swear, if you are coming with any new carpet cape textures or new kind of racks in the next few months, i cant help but say all you have been saying here was ######...

lets see what these future updates are though i guess

hey that is some of the finest blend of mughal velvet textiles from the 17-18 century...hopefully i can be like Aladdin rub my lamp head and take a magic carpet ride even if i never leave the house..wuts wrong which you.

 

and to sweeten the pot, 

i'll have you know Ausimus = Ausome Isometric Map Utility Source

 

 

Bet you didn't know that...did you!  The more you wurm the more you lurn!

Edited May 21, 2019 by Bloodscythe

[Egard 3,361]

[Quicktor 1,348]

let me just ask one alst time, whats so major about giving us a new map so there is no stalemate on that side at least?

like what exactly is the problem giving us that map so we can build on it till 2020 and "the big change"

 

@Retrograde

[Bloodscythe 2,225]

@Quicktora ? that works.  WTB jimbob plaidrant, obv got amazing skill in a two-hander and stamina through the roof, and won't quit which is better than some of us.

[Bloodscythe 2,225]

He'll soon surprass Sme in huge club...maybe

 

[Angelklaine 4,266]

7 hours ago, Ayes said:

It is blatantly obvious that there are two *sides* of this game and that also a much less significant number play on the pvp side of it. True that many on the pvp side also play some/much of the time on the PvE side of it. Yes too that if the pvp *side* of the game was shut down some of those few who play on that side of the game sometimes, most of the time, somewhere in between, would then quit playing the game. These pvp players are obviously part of the game as it stands now but the issue is does this justify continuing spending any amount of time upon the pvp side of the game disproportionate to the number of players that participate in the pvp side of the game. Or does it justify diminishing the playablity of the PvE side of the game due to pvp codeing restrictions. Or does it justify spending Developer time on pvp that could be put to much more beneficial progress of the disproportionately greater PvE side of the game.

You are assuming working on the pvp side pulls resources from pve development. That position is absurd, because as it has been mentioned before by Retro, devs work on projects they enjoy. Something as simple as allowing Ausimus to develop a new map on his own free time will do absolutely nothing to the pvp side, yet it will allow pvp to get a much needed injection. Why can't this be allowed? Why cant the devs work on both pvp AND pve at the same time?

 

Is not a matter of time, its a matter of choice.

[Etherdrifter 2,518]

1 minute ago, Angelklaine said:

Is not a matter of time, its a matter of choice.

Ok, while I agree with your initial statement (there is only one us); if you have 5 people on your staff and 1 of them is working on PvP balance, they are not working on PvE content.  This is a matter of less man-hours spent on PvE development, the choice directly impacts time.  It is not an either/or situation.

[Quicktor 1,348]

i dont even know why this is turning into a discussion of this kind

if a dev wants to work on a project he is passionate about, why not let him do that? period.

 

its not like he gets paid right? 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Quicktor

[Angelklaine 4,266]

Just now, Etherdrifter said:

Ok, while I agree with your initial statement (there is only one us); if you have 5 people on your staff and 1 of them is working on PvP balance, they are not working on PvE content.  This is a matter of less man-hours spent on PvE development, the choice directly impacts time.  It is not an either/or situation.

No is not, because as it has been stated before devs are volunteers and can work on whatever they want. Sindusk working on the priest rework was his choice, something he wanted to do, and he spent inmense personal time doing it. Ausimus is well known for making maps. He can sit down and whip a map up for us and help develop the pvp side of the game while still working on his original dev responsabilities I. I mean, look at him, he is also a WU dev... Devs are smart resourceful people, not one trick ponies.

[Quicktor 1,348]

i mean, just look at these masterpieces...

 

Spoiler

 

[Angelklaine 4,266]

2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Which is a major project and thus not something we are able to do quickly. That's the crux of the issue here, that major works like that are a significant expenditure  of dev time and testing time and that time is currently allocated to something else that will help us make further steps once it is in

Ok how can we put this in a way that makes sense...

 

Lets say your plan is to work on fixing the problems with pvp 1.5 years from now. Thats when you plan to begin. That means we have to wait another 1.5 years before we can go to Epic or Chaos and START building deeds.  It means players will quit because THEY CANT PLAY ON THEIR CHOSEN CLUSTER OR SERVER! Why? Because you will then release a new map 1.7 years from now, and all the work, all the investment, all their effort just went down the drain.

 

But lets assume you decide to release the map now. Well, now we can put up with the waiting because we can concentrate on building an infrastructure and getting kingdoms up and running, getting excited people to come back for the new map and receiving a huge assurance pvp has not been forgotten. But most importantly, we know our effort will not be wasted 1.7 years down the line if and when you decide to release the new map. 

 

Saying "we will release a new map sometime in the future... maybe." Is the worst assurance you can give your players. Its like saying "go away and come back in 1.7 years" because we know for sure there wont be a point to anything we do right now. Absolutely none.

 

So you either have no plans for a pvp map, or if you wait, by the time you release it there will be no one to play it.

 

Why?

Edited May 21, 2019 by Angelklaine

[FranktheTank 1,901]

For those mentioning a new map, can I just input that one of the big problems people have with Chaos is the skill gap between players.

 

I think everyone would be happy if we actually started completely fresh, in terms of stats and map, all of it; at the very least.

 

It would be fun to fight each other low level again, before all the other garbage is tossed into account. Who doesn't want to build wood houses and throw carving knives again?

 

(Keep in mind I would be making a sacrifice for that reset too, specifically items that I have had since epics start, and a character that crossed the portal on day 1.)

Edited May 21, 2019 by FranktheTank

[Quicktor 1,348]

4 minutes ago, FranktheTank said:

For those mentioning a new map, can I just input that one of the big problems people have with Chaos is the skill gap between players.

 

I think everyone would be happy if we actually started completely fresh, in terms of stats and map, all of it; at the very least.

 

It would be fun to fight each other low level again, before all the other garbage is tossed into account. Who doesn't want to build wood houses and throw carving knives again?

 

while that would be the wet dream for most, do you really believe that is EVER going to be a possibility when the current staff doesnt even consider a map reset?

dont get me wrong, many people would go for that, since has been suggested numerous times aswell, but with the focus on freedom and retro being scared of making decision X because of Y although the remaining community wants it, i dont think thats a realistic thing unfortunately...

 

after all, dont forget, the staff team knows what we want....along the famous lines of "You think you do know what you want, but you don't!"

Edited May 21, 2019 by Quicktor