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3 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

Yes, you are right.

 

But do you think the devs will disregard the will of these people? Or use it as an excuse to do nothing? 

 

Which is it?

I know the answer, but I don't like it.

 

It is sad because video games are a risk taking media, and if you cannot take a risk like this, to potentially net way more players than the current downward trend, then why are you still trying at all?

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I don't mind a map reset and even an item reset.. but there are people that only played on epic that we will probably lose with a skill reset. But I can't not be curious about how it is to start from scratch on an alive pvp server if it would get 100+ people. My only concern is that only 20-30 people will be around longer than 1-2 months so nothing will be accomplished.

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27 minutes ago, faty said:

I don't mind a map reset and even an item reset.. but there are people that only played on epic that we will probably lose with a skill reset. But I can't not be curious about how it is to start from scratch on an alive pvp server if it would get 100+ people. My only concern is that only 20-30 people will be around longer than 1-2 months so nothing will be accomplished.

That is a possibility. That's why I personally think the most realistic idea is a new Elevation map. This will give people a reason to come back and see for themselves, plus is something to do while we wait forever until the devs decide to do something again.

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7 hours ago, Thorinoakshield said:

All this  talk about a new map, but what seems to be forgotten is that most of the PvP community actually lives safely at a PvE server and only gathers for "PvP" for a raid.

The reason: they're shitting their armour for loosing all the fancy stuff they collected over the years when they're living on Chaos and their deeds getting raided while they're not there.

 

The result?

They talk at discord or teamspeak to gather 'round at 8PM May, 31st, sail to Chaos to raid a deed of an enemy kingdom at 9.30PM and sail back at 10.15 PM to their PvE deeds to make sure all they captured would be safe.

That's similar to plaingy Battlefield or CoD, remaining at the spawn because spawnkilling is forbidden and only come out when you know you're going to win because the other team is down to one person. It's not PvP, I won't even call it semi-PvP. It's PvE with the occasional hunt.

 

Then there's the global server issue, meaning  that some players aren't on-line when other are, resulting in deeds being raided when their owners aren't there. And don't tell me, that doesn't happen, cos it does. No-one passes an opportunity like that.

I'm pretty sure there are PMK's who're contacting their "enemies" to negotiate a time and place of a battle.

I'm also pretty sure there are players who don't care about that and just gather a team to raid a deed while the owner is off life. Eventually resulting in that particular owner either quitting the game or moving to a PvE server to make sure his / her stuff is safe. Resulting in what I said before, "PvP" players moving to PvE servers to keep all their shiney stuff safe.

Also meaning that doing a raid is almost a waste of time, because all you can loot are some resources and some "normal" weapons / armor. Not really something to get exited about.

 

So, one reason PvP is dead?

Because the PvP community committed suicide by deciding to do some things that made PvP boring, resulting in players leaving.

 

Thorin :)

 

you actually made my day

thorin for president

Edited by Quicktor
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17 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

That is a possibility. That's why I personally think the most realistic idea is a new Elevation map. This will give people a reason to come back and see for themselves, plus is something to do while we wait forever until the devs decide to do something again.

Only an elevation map might do even worse than a full reset in terms of player retention.. 

I'm not sure what the idea or the plan is here, but i feel like we might as well just all go to a WU server and start from scratch, and wait for 2020 to come with pvp updates for epic.. because all other options are just temporary patches as long as we have the same mechanics in place. Might as well help @Sindusk to make his anti-cheat mod and work on an epic 180 server.

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2 minutes ago, faty said:

Only an elevation map might do even worse than a full reset in terms of player retention.. 

I'm not sure what the idea or the plan is here, but i feel like we might as well just all go to a WU server and start from scratch, and wait for 2020 to come with pvp updates for epic.. because all other options are just temporary patches as long as we have the same mechanics in place. Might as well help @Sindusk to make his anti-cheat mod and work on an epic 180 server.

 

oh dont get me wrong, if this anti-cheat works out pvp is done in retail, there is no doubt about that

the problem is that it will never work out 100% right

 

after all, whats the big deal with us presenting obvious solutions to a problem thats been creeping up for years?

sad part is that there are still people in denial

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1 minute ago, Quicktor said:

the problem is that it will never work out 100% right

I hope it does. I really hope someone figures out a way to complete the anti-cheat. That will kill Wurm Online once and for all. That will kill all this arguing with people who clearly do not want to / have no idea how to support us. I've had it with them.

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why are we even working so hard as to pull teeth or feel in an argument..I want those problems of please help us play longer so we can give you our money..who says NO to that.

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3 hours ago, Haseroth said:

if the devs gave us a temporary challenge map for until epic gets fixed i would reprem just to play on the challenge map lol

I Honestly wouldn't care about Epic being killed if it meant a truly rotating Challenge server came alive out of it.

 

2 hours ago, FranktheTank said:

A complete reset in my honest opinion would be a great way to get everyone on board. 

 

New Lands, new accounts, no items. 

 

You can spawn in and enjoy the game at the base level again, with a higher skill gain than freedom, as is the norm. Starting over on a new map is really fun!

I'm going to echo this, and also removing moonmetals and SoTG

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40 minutes ago, Quicktor said:

 

oh dont get me wrong, if this anti-cheat works out pvp is done in retail, there is no doubt about that

the problem is that it will never work out 100% right

 

after all, whats the big deal with us presenting obvious solutions to a problem thats been creeping up for years?

sad part is that there are still people in denial

I've been reviewing the old DesV3 anti-cheat code, the Sindusk version (which implemented it in a more calculation intensive way), the WU code  and playing with a few different ways to try negating the ESP highlight capability. Along the way I've created a few new options that knock off some of the other things that people do to "exploit" things.

 

I think there is a way, just have to run down a few different approaches that I have spec'ed out. No promises nor a particular rush for me on a personal level.

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"If we build it, they will come"

 

Except, in the past, this hasn't happened, because Chaos still has a major advantage over epic; access to the freedom market.

 

Without counteracting that, or offering a greater advantage, Epic is never going to revive.  You'd need to either remove chaos from freedom (maybe the new elevation server?), or you'd need to offer epic a SOLID advantage over Chaos that has real world value.

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5 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

"If we build it, they will come"

 

Except, in the past, this hasn't happened, because Chaos still has a major advantage over epic; access to the freedom market.

 

Without counteracting that, or offering a greater advantage, Epic is never going to revive.  You'd need to either remove chaos from freedom (maybe the new elevation server?), or you'd need to offer epic a SOLID advantage over Chaos that has real world value.

Epic did very well for a long time outside the freedom market. 

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1 minute ago, Etherdrifter said:

"If we build it, they will come"

Except, in the past, this hasn't happened, because Chaos still has a major advantage over epic; access to the freedom market.

Without counteracting that, or offering a greater advantage, Epic is never going to revive.  You'd need to either remove chaos from freedom (maybe the new elevation server?), or you'd need to offer epic a SOLID advantage over Chaos that has real world value.

I disagree here. One may or may not consider the Chaos link to Freedom a boon. Of course it is financially interesting, allowing traficking Kingdom banners and wagons, Hota statues, Hots/MR/JK towers, and other stuff to Freedom.

 

But freedomers are widely abhorred from Chaos due to the menace of being ganked and affinity milked there. On Epic, that is just a different character.

 

It might help Epic if there were a possibility of skill retransfer to Freedom, reduced by epic curve difference, and maybe a penalty for faster grind.

 

Epic, with some help of the residents, could be an attractive area for Freedomers, allowing PvP in a different environment, offering wild spaces with mobs, and abundance of uniques. That would help to reduce the inbreeding of the PvP scene which create sterile endless rants by the usual suspects as in this and a lot of other threads. PvE is much less of such a closed echo chamber. In my area and ally alone, about 35 to 40% of the players are "new" characters, meaning to be playing Wurm 2 yrs or less. In the PvP scene you will hardly find a single one with less than 5yrs in Wurm.

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you could really contact the review sites that worked with wurm in the past to put out a good message and tell them this side of things, it's just sad.
"Community abandoned by devs for 3rd year running" not like we didn't try to tell the Epic folk they are playing a dead end.

I mean the only reason Chaos saw a population boost was because the main kingdoms of Epic basically saw the dead it became the moment one-way transfers were opened up, 

took other groups a bit longer to come to Chaos but really was the only logically thing at the time - That doesn't mean people WANTED to leave Epic. 
Epic was the shizzle. 
You didn't do anything to help maintain Epic, i even asked you to give Epic a steep deed upkeep reduction for existing deeds or capitals, instead you just let them disband.
If we were dumb we'd be paying you that silver to maintain dead content, going off your words "next year"

Practically we been told "next year" for the last 3 years when it comes to Epic, literally. 
You're a joke, you're saying "next year" as if any of the community will be around to care. 
You're saying next year as if anything next year will happen and you won't be repeating yourself.

Maybe it's just time to do what the players say and let us live with the downside, if that requires resetting the map AGAIN, we'll live with it. At least it was our call. 
It's NERF Sotg all over again.

You chose to ignore us so you'll lose us. It isn't the first time this has happened tho.


You dropped the ball on the epic updates ignoring what most of us said.
You dropped the ball on the tomes when it came to achievements, I could dig the quote where you said anybody expecting to profit will be dissapointed.
You literally nerfed it 2 months later after it was too late because of the issue raised lol.

All the changes done were because Sindusk was the one pushing foward as a PVP dev - you've probably put the devs who helped him back to other projects since the push behind the motion has gone now, which you've stated so.
Tell me that if Sindusk was part of the team right now you'd be putting him on freedom based projects. Yeah, i highly doubt it. So it comes down to the fact that you lost Sindusk, you're team who are freedom based are not going to carry the bigger PVP projects, so pvp must "wait another year" but the reality is you should hire another Sindusk and save your players 100 euros this year in subscription and time as you bleed even more population,

 

Overall image here is: we lost the staff for pvp so we're gonna pretend something gonna happen next year for epic instead of closing it/giving it a new map to skim you all out of more money waiting

 

case closed.

*edit - As for your last post. We'd all rather spend a year on a new map fighting over new territory than a year NOT PLAYING the current map - 
if you make a warning that THE MAP WILL RESET, we will be fine. Infact we can use it to TEST the map and mechanics as you add them.

IT'S A WIN WIN.

Some fond memories of epic - Shame the players won't be able to re-live them through a new map


The land Rush of a new server:
 

 

 

my first ever alliance on MRH - it went very unoticed because I was literally a low-town noob who somehow got into a neighbourly war with Joemogg who owned Nahjo at the time. 

Eldarian owned the alliance but quit.

Teal was on the horse

1cb8fedae13e29ae53e6ec4b048a2b7e.jpg

 

Then i decided to go to the more populated server, JKH where we met Daryl and we started another alliance.

3b9c9b2f08a2d31befa00e134f5425f2.jpg


Funny enough our acronym was also JKC -

we tried our first raid - Ran into Meep on BL and raided/stole his small magical box, was a total win despite 2 deaths.

9784e7e9f624a521f19d5445e11cf711.jpg

 

Then I went to Elevation after I learned of it and BL raided the Capital of JK - I joined to help repair. It was a fun start to a epic journey.

 shouting at us to Rush MRE
 

 

then the new elevation map came out: i was finding myself leading some things. Some things were big fails others were big success, a newbly leader just giving it a shot.

To the bait on Gary to the eventually failed raid of Tideland, epic moments 
 



Was fun! 

BYE EPIC!

Edited by Mclavin
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man

 

just makes me sad to see all the videos

on epic, things had a meaning

 

R.I.P.

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I added it to my post because I missed what Retro said but I'll say it here again.

- As for your last post. I think We'd all rather spend a year on a new map fighting over new territory and interesting land marks than a year NOT PLAYING the current map - which is rubbish
if you make a warning that THE MAP WILL RESET, we will be fine. Infact we can use it to TEST the map and mechanics as you add them.
But we're not going to be testing anything on the current map, i refuse to play there. I haven't even killed a valrei mob under the new "fighting mechanics" for them.

Edited by Mclavin

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lol the moment someone figures out a mostly working anti cheat for wu, retail is gonna die so hard. No point waiting a year for wo devs to get around to fixing pvp and reseting a map when wu devs can do it in a few weeks at most. the deso v3 changes came very quickly.

Edited by Haseroth

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Anti Esp is going pretty good in testing for  Conquest 3.

Used to cause server to burst into flames with 5 people.

Last test only had issues with 20-30 in a flat area and from what was talked about there was a lot more optimization to be done.

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4 minutes ago, zentil said:

Anti Esp is going pretty good in testing for  Conquest 3.

Used to cause server to burst into flames with 5 people.

Last test only had issues with 20-30 in a flat area and from what was talked about there was a lot more optimization to be done.

where can i keep up to date with the developement of that

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Man I'd give my left kidney to play in a brand new epic map with a land rush like I saw on that @Mclavinvideo. I have never lived something like that.

Edited by Angelklaine
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On 5/22/2019 at 3:15 AM, Retrograde said:

 

We won't be looking at resetting the map until this work is underway, and it's not underway at the moment, and no concrete ideas 

I think this is where you wrong looking at all the posts here. Having a fresh map will -obviusly temporarily- boost the playerbase on Epic without any other changes introduced or even promised. That will give breathing space to the team to keep the players and finish current projects. If ... IF a reset will again be needed because the game would change that greatly I'm sure it will be accepted and again cause a re-influx of players.

Just look at the history when any new map is introduced.

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8 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

"If we build it, they will come"

 

Except, in the past, this hasn't happened, because Chaos still has a major advantage over epic; access to the freedom market.

 

Without counteracting that, or offering a greater advantage, Epic is never going to revive.  You'd need to either remove chaos from freedom (maybe the new elevation server?), or you'd need to offer epic a SOLID advantage over Chaos that has real world value.

The fact Epic has no connection to freedom is the sole reason I play there and don't even touch Chaos.

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@Retrograde

Honestly, you're far past the point of this, so it should be done:

You should put the new map on its own server. 

"waaa a new server waaa"

yes, but make it so you require new accounts. Be strong emphasis on the fact things will reset, they will wipe. use it as a more Permanent test server - 
use it as an event server, host Hunger games, host different pvp-focused events, make the enviorment more about FUN.
Remove skill loss from PVP - item loss is enough. 
We will test all mechanics through gameplay without effecting epic/chaos - Nobody loses their progress on Epic/Chaos but it's to the point NOBODY playing those servers anyway, you'll see great population boost on this new server.
if people rather stay on epic/chaos, that's fine, they have that choice.
If you release a quirky mechanic, we can event it, the map has to be good - it could even be old Elevation. Without hota and instead battle camps, the dynamics can change.
You got a chance to make a Challenge 3, except it plays out for far longer.
Give players some power to host Campaigns, with the help of GM's we could setup mini missions and events. Have a part of the map especially for this, a hota-type zone where nobody can deed but GM's can easily wipe/rebuild for each campaign/event without effecting the other portion of the map. Could even have an "event island" so its out of the way.


Then the fact that we should all make new accounts will realllllly give new players and returning players a level ground - it will also extend the time it takes to stag the server by about 2 years.
If we are all on 1 server, we have to go out and train, if we're all old accounts on a new map, why are we leaving deed? The pvp will be great. There will be an actual market for items.
Honestly, this would be the most SICKEST thing wurm has done for 5 years. 

Make a new map, make it new accounts only, you'll have a new epic-type environment for a good year or two whilst you focus other areas and players aren't drowned in existing items or skills and tomes.

Gaps and old exploits that once existed would exist no more. We'd all grind on the same methods. No windows. 

Let's do it.

Do not under estimate how fun starting out fresh is, with groups meeting each other on foot.
 

 

 

Edited by Mclavin
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Now that is a reason I would come back for - no old accounts, new map and everyone at same level, should have been done ages ago :)

 

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9 minutes ago, Mclavin said:

@RetrogradeRetrograRetrogradeR
Make a new map, make it new accounts only, you'll have a new epic-type environment for a good year or two whilst you focus other areas and players aren't drowned in existing items or skills and tomes.

Gaps and old exploits that once existed would exist no more. We'd all grind on the same methods. No windows. 

Let's do it.

 

 

Sounds cool ! Im down for that, fresh start with easy solution.

 

ps, i tried to delete the tag for retro, but phone kept adding more and more... reee

Edited by Themystrix
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