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22 minutes ago, Votip said:

 

I am pretty sure that you dont even know whats going on and what pvp players feels for a long time.

 

Funny, 'cause you guys are all over the forums going on and on and on and on about that.

 

Make your own thread:  PvP Roadmap we'd all like to see.  Discuss it, do your usual 50 pages of KvK, narrow it down to one or two pages, mail the .doc to your favorite dev.  Oh and: try to be civilized when dev feedback about that roadmap comes back.

 

Try, for once, to not give devs a reason to pull the plug on that damned headache and turn those servers into something more useful like a private GTA server.

 

For clarification:  It makes no difference to me whether PvP thrives or is permanently shut down.  Luckily WU modders have coded in stuff that wouldn't see daylight here because "it would roon peeveeps" or "isn't oldskul enuff!" that keep the game highly enjoyable on my personal end of things.  Hell, WO development could be frozen altogether and the modders would keep me from worrying too much about it.

 

What I'm trying to say is:  You want PvP fixed (whatever the HELL that's finally supposed to mean, write your own roadmap ffs), try starting by not being so openly and consistently antagonistic toward the developers AND the other 90% of the playerbase.  Oh, and next time one of you is bored enough to post a "Why don't more people PvP?" thread, DON'T defeat the entire purpose of the thread by showing utter hostility and disdain toward anyone answering the actual question like y'all did last time.  

29 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

They are -always- met by toxicity from the pve side saying how people may just not want to pvp and stop forcing it on everyone  or they just want more brick slaves or whatever weird reason it was in whatever thread. 

 

It's near impossible to take someone seriously when they can dish it out but can't take it back.

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On 5/18/2019 at 8:13 PM, whereami said:

Wurm's vision, generally when I first joined, seemed to be almost entirely PvP.

 

On 5/18/2019 at 8:13 PM, whereami said:

Flash forward to 2019 and I really don't think much has changed with PvE as a whole. There's still no reason or purpose to play there.

True enough that Rolf's focus and mindset was upon pvp in the early days of its creation. He even unleashed the pvp players upon the PvE types in what they (PvE players) saw as a betrayal. To make amends he created another server where the PvE players could move to without the fear of non-consensual pvp being used against them. Still there remained now a distrust that Rolf might skrew them over again. This was all before my arrival here so I did not experience this but I can understand the PvE players sense of betrayal and mistrust.

 

As many moved over to the Freedom PvE only server when it opened the numbers of players there grew to greatly outnumber the pvp players. The writing was now on the wall for all to see (especially Rolf), that being the main appeal of the game was the PvE aspects. Rolf gradually came to realize and accept this fact. It seems that you would prefer to label this as "abandonment". I would call it facing reality.

 

For the vast majority of the players the exact opposite of your view in the second quote is theirs, that being they have no interest in participating in the pvp aspects of this game. The heart of this game are the crafting and building aspects so the game focus has proceeded along these lines. For you to further state that not much has changed for PvE on the whole since that time is a state of denial since the whole game has been improved vastly along those lines.

 

The truly unfortunate thing is that the Developers still cling to trying to sustain the pvp aspect and spend any time upon it. If it were truly "abandoned" they would not be putting any resources towards this or modifying the PvE coding to accommodate it. The constant protests and gripes from the pvp players only exacerbate the situation as they never seem to be satisfied with any efforts put forth. I guess mainly the pvp claim for Wurm is just for marketing purposes or Rolf's hope of what will never be of any significance to the future of Wurm. It only has the opposite effect of dragging it down with disputes of no significance of which neither side of the game will ever be satisfied.

 

I find your claims to be contrary to the facts. Let the old dog (pvp) die its natural death then, since none has the courage to put it out of its misery.

 

=Ayes=

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Think it's worth clarifying to the PvP'ers at this point that my previous post is, once again, not intended as a diss or bait or any of that nonsense.  I just tend to be brutally blunt and say things as I see them, which I won't apologize for, though I'll grudgingly apologize for the abrasiveness of my comments.   Had enough years watching you guys interact with the community.

 

What I'm trying to say... oh, so bluntly... Is that I don't see anyone making any progress with the Wurm PvP community anytime soon until you guys, for a change, actually and consistently learn to CHILL in almost every sense of the word.

 

I'll leave you with one thing I constantly notice in PvP overhaul related threads:  There seems to be a pervasive focus on WINNING, as in winning the actual war and making a point of it by flattening the others.  Don't think I've ever seen (may have missed it) someone say "This would hurt my kingdom too, but it would make battles more fun and constant". 

 

If I may be so bold as to suggest something:  Change your own mentality regarding the end goal of PvP.  Try to see it as a source of constant battles where "winning" means you win more BATTLES than you lose them.  Second someone wins THE WAR, you lost a huge chunk of your community.

 

My two valrei coppers.

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it doesnt matter what, how, when or where i say it

you will just sit there and reflect on my post negatively cause thats what you do, literally, the only thing you do

 

didnt even want to answer but just had to say that apart from you maybe being right about the fact that there are 2 fronts in this community, and that one of those seems to be pissed all the time and rant in every single thread, there are good reasons for it

the other parts of your posts we have tried, every year pretty much, now not being part of said community maybe is the reason you havent seen it, but from your latest posts i am pretty sure you will just lay that off as toxicity again and that you cant be bothered to go through it

 

keep making your "blunt" posts i guess

im chillin ?

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Second hand information isn’t reliable in a game like Wurm, especially PvP. If you want to get a complete view....

 

Join a kingdom on Chaos that:

 

You like the PMK gear they designed

or

You like that one guy or gal who you bought something from (or sold to)

or

Whichever kingdom’s trolls you hate less

or 

You want to join the winning side

or

You want to join the losing side

 

Just don’t say people are toxic and wash your hands clean of PvP.  Most guys on Chaos will drop what they want to do just to help you out. Imagine not helping out people in your kingdom and expect to win ?  No kingdom would ever last like that. I’ve been apart of alliances on Freedom, nothing to this day has compared to kingdom comradery 

 

Edited by Mojo
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2 hours ago, Mordraug said:

 

It's near impossible to take someone seriously when they can dish it out but can't take it back.

 

Are you justifying pve toxicity especially yours against pvp, when pve players are saying that pvp players should tell them why they should try pvp but those threads attempting to do so are ruined by said pve toxicity vs pvp?  Pve toxicity vs pvp does not help the game at all, nor does pvp toxicity vs pve, but I'm not seeing a whole lot of that one.

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It is easier than it ever has been to step into PvP.  There are more open field skirmishes (new HoTA battlecamps) than there used to be, and you no longer have to choose between wearing drake or wearing plate.  You can wear just about anything... leather... chain... some even wear cloth.

 

Those that get hung up in the "toxicity" are just looking for an excuse not to try it.

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@Mordraugthat's what i thought as well for a very long time while reading the forums and staying on pve.. that the pvp community is toxic and there is no point in trying it at all. I assure you that it's nothing like you think it is if you look at it from the pve side, especially from reading the forums.. Most people will go out of their way to help you, will stay up at night to make you weapons and enchant gear for you and will give you all the information you need for skilling and whatever. The people around you really matter in a pvp kingdom because morale is important so you have to do everything as a group, both to learn how each play the game in pvp and to be there for each other in the hard times when you lose fights..

 

There are some vocal and toxic players around in pvp of course, but you have those all over the game, they are not a reflection of the entire pvp community at all..

Even your enemies will give you more respect than some neighbors I've had in pve..

Edited by faty
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Seems to me like people keep mentioning going back, classic, or other classic games. Sounds like Epic needs a complete 180 from the rest of the game.

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I'd hate to think after all the different things i've been in this game where I spent a vast chunk of my time on pve and talking about it's merits, my time dedicated to staff roles where i worked endlessly for all facets of the game vs some niche component, where i've hosted pve players to learn and love wurm to then go on to make deeds of their own, to my times on pvp servers both epic and freedom chaos in various kingdoms to know all facets of game mechanics  to be informed about when speaking on behalf of these areas.....and that the hundred or more complainers coming before; half of which never pvp'd with....that I am marginalized down to just that...a toxic complainer.  I can go over my history of posts on the forums to find the very opposite.  

 

As can be said for me the same can be said for the vast majority posting in this thread, we are expressing because we care, because we love the game, because we don't want to see it go the way it is apparent to go. 

 

Sorta like any minority group marginalized in RL they all seem not to matter and be nuisance until the very day you're one of them. 

 

It is easy cast aside when it's not your turn on the chopping buck yet you should care not only for the plight of those here but that historical pattern would suggest you could be next and we won't be around to be able to defend you.

Edited by Bloodscythe
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That's another thing... you guys are WAY too easily triggered.

 

So sensitive ffs.

 

Enjoy killing your own PvP.  Gives my popcorn purchases an added meaning.

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yah i've never seen you triggered, you're not on wurm unlimited because you played WO fora good while , but triggered to leave.

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Mordraug saying other people are triggered is the sweet nectar I needed directly into my veins.

 

Please keep posting you magnificent creature.

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I like it how many have the mentality of "them" vs. "us". There arent 2 sides of this game. There isn't a pvp vs pve side. You don't select a server upon character creation and get stuck in it forever.

 

When you say "them" you are talking about players. Players like yourself who pay a prem, grind their skills, build their houses and breed their horses. These players don't stop being "them" when they cross the server border and become "us", nor do their way of thinking changes. That "them" is the same "us" that bought your dirt last week, or sold you a knarrful of bricks. Those bricks aren't branded with "Chaos" on them, nor does the dirt say "Xanadu".

 

So if or when CCAB shuts down the pvp servers, it is not "them" that will quit the game. Its "us" because there will be less people around to participate in the Market, post on the forums and sail by your deed when they come from Chaos to their freedom deed. The game would loose players and those are less subscriptions going to fund the game and less people to socialize with.

 

Many people have a mentality that PVP is not important, that it does not matter or they just don't care. You can't cover your eyes and pretend those people leaving are irrelevant because they play on epic/chaos. 

 

Its a silly argument. We are one single community, and we need the people. Our game is loosing enough as it is.

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bro if the devs asked ausimus to whip em up a new map for elevation the man would know exactly what we would want. he is a god at making wu maps and they all look really f'ing good.

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5 minutes ago, Haseroth said:

bro if the devs asked ausimus to whip em up a new map for elevation the man would know exactly what we would want. he is a god at making wu maps and they all look really f'ing good.

Having Ausimus design a new map costs too much dev time and money. They have other projects to do. Like new color buckets.

 

Also they dont want to ruin the deeds of the one guy and three alts that live on Elevation. You need to be more considerate.

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Just now, Angelklaine said:

Having Ausimus design a new map costs too much dev time and money. They have other projects to do. Like new color buckets.

 

Don't make fun of the art guy 

 

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Just now, Retrograde said:

Don't make fun of the art guy 

 

I am sorry ☹️

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1 hour ago, Angelklaine said:

You don't select a server upon character creation and get stuck in it forever.

 

unless you were unfortunate enough to choose epic :^)

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5 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

Having Ausimus design a new map costs too much dev time and money. They have other projects to do. Like new color buckets.

 

5 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Don't make fun of the art guy 

 

lZcm9vB.png

nice buckets

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To quote a now hidden post remember to keep this on track. 

 

Feel free to share your thoughts and concerns in areas pvp needs attention. 

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35 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Feel free to share your thoughts and concerns

 

Vvh8pgC.gif

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8 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

There arent 2 sides of this game. There isn't a pvp vs pve side.

It is blatantly obvious that there are two *sides* of this game and that also a much less significant number play on the pvp side of it. True that many on the pvp side also play some/much of the time on the PvE side of it. Yes too that if the pvp *side* of the game was shut down some of those few who play on that side of the game sometimes, most of the time, somewhere in between, would then quit playing the game. These pvp players are obviously part of the game as it stands now but the issue is does this justify continuing spending any amount of time upon the pvp side of the game disproportionate to the number of players that participate in the pvp side of the game. Or does it justify diminishing the playablity of the PvE side of the game due to pvp codeing restrictions. Or does it justify spending Developer time on pvp that could be put to much more beneficial progress of the disproportionately greater PvE side of the game.

 

At its heart pvp is about destruction both of players and objects created by players. While on the other hand the PvE side of the game is about creation and protection of these creations. There is no way in which these two sides of the game can coexist as is plainly exemplified by their separation. Yet only one side (pvp) seeks to destroy the other while at the same time attempting to cast blame on the other side for their failure to do so. If pvp is to continue to exist to the detriment of the game due to the hostility it creates with the PvE side of the game it must remain separated on its *side*. This creates opposing sides, for how can those bent on destruction exist "peacefully" in some sort of "brotherhood" with those focused upon creation.

 

Look at all the grand Deeds and small Villages created and maintained over the years on these PvE servers long before your arrival. They last because pvp is prevented from destroying them. The game protects them, not players killing other players. Why would anyone want to destroy all this cherished work and devotion that has been put into these Deeds and Villages. This is what separates PvE from pvp and what PvE players find hard to relate to. With this pvp mentality is it any wonder that PvE players would want them to stay on their *side* of the game, or that it would concern them if the pvp side of the game no longer existed, or that a few players that were so focused upon pvp would quit because of it.

 

Have no fear, the pvp side of the game will continue tottering along with its devotees asking (demanding?) for improvements. If there is any competition between these two sides of the game the PvE side has won out many years ago not too long after the game was created, as was and is evidenced by player numbers on each side. You might take a moment to realize that the PvE side of the game had this victory without even raising a sword. Irony or justice? The players simply decided with what interested them most about playing the game. To attempt as you have done to state that there are not two *sides* to this game is (trys to think of a polite word).....

 

=Ayes=

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3 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Feel free to share your thoughts and concerns in areas pvp needs attention. 

I tried, somehow its always in wrong thread and it got removed. So why bother? you could of just moved it. Yes, it was a bit of complaint of this current requirements in PvP, but still... it was my concerns, but then again it will always be complaint when wanting to change something.

 

Im not saying you guys aint doing anything, i know people are working hard behind the curtains, but what would ease our complaints is that you open up the curtains and hire more staff, volunteers or whatever just get more devs.

 

I know a guy that applied to become a dev as he is professional coder for games, but, the application was never even looked by Budda. Well, thats a certain way of killing the game i suppose. 

 

Only way to make PvP noob friendlier would be making PvP only happen in epic servers and for that server you guys make PvP a lot more feasible to jump in and bash few heads.

 

Make epic to become THE pvp server, with simple PvP, smaller new map, no tomes, no hell horses and bunch of other stuff mentioned before by so many other players.

 

As much as i hate epic skill gain, i would give it a try and if you devs wanted to be fearsome, keep the skill gain as is and make it like that you have never left freedom if thats where you want to jump from epic, so it has no penalty playing on epic skill wise.

 

I might of explained this a bit hard, but i hope you understand. 

 

PvP shouldnt be grindy grind like PvE is. It should be that where you can jump in and kill people without of worrying weeks of work to be done after you die. Or grind next 5 years to be any good. Well, thats my thoughts.

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4 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Feel free to share your thoughts and concerns in areas pvp needs attention.

 

Haha.. What. 

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