Why was PvP abandoned?

[Rhianna 892]

I'm not gonna lie - is stalky even a word......well maybe when it applies to Cyber...... 

[Retrograde 12,013]

I think you're misinterpreting what we've been saying. 

 

Yes the epic things are important, and we understand, which is why we'll be specifically touching on epic in the coming roadmap, we do read threads when they pertain to issues, and I will share links and things I find with the dev team for discussion. 

 

We have plans for epic but they won't be short term, there will be some short term changes to combat and other factors of PvP but the epic specific major overhaul is a longer way away. 

 

As for the major PvP works in the past, tweaks and future plans, we'll continue adjusting based on feedback, and as we approach the opportunity for more PvP specific works we'll work with you all then too

[MrGARY 12,421]

On 4/20/2016 at 3:33 AM, Retrograde said:

I'd rather see epic rebooted with new mechanics, better structure, and clearer goals that have an impact on the world (and no, not player gods and meteors)

 

I know Epic is really hurting at this point, I'm constantly being poked for updates and I really wish we could deliver changes on the spot, but that's not something that's going to happen unfortunately. The changes with the dev team have caused a few delays in discussions but things are picking up pace again, the key changes discussed in the feedback threads should hit soon, with the more debated ideas coming after, once we spend more time fleshing the possibilities out.

 

The major thing is, in order to improve we need to avoid mistakes of the past, and while I know there's a great sense of urgency and impatience within the Epic and Pvp community, these things cannot be rushed else we'll make the same mistakes again.

 

On 7/13/2017 at 1:08 PM, Retrograde said:

Valrei rework has progressed and I'll chase up some public stuff with that from budda some time over the next week, might not be time to show it all yet but I'll see if we can provide some insight.

 

First of the combat reworks came with the uttacha, with others being looked at, these will be expanded upon as time goes on too.

 

As you can see from this the main priorities are:

• Fix broken systems
• Balance systems
• Add content unique to epic

We also have a few more epic centric plans not listed there, but they'll be waiting for the major reworks to come out before beginning those and I'll share them all when we move with them.

 

On 8/15/2018 at 12:28 PM, Retrograde said:

At the moment the focus is several big projects that will help both epic and freedom, namely:

Priests and spells

UI

Meditation

 

We know there's things epic needs as well, and there have been discussion about it, but those three will be coming before any major changes to epic because they affect the entire game, and will help both sides 

 

42 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

No major work for epic planned until next year at the earliest. Epic will need a major focus from multiple developers and that's just not in the cards at the moment. We have one or two big updates in the works will which pave the way and be prototypes for the changes to epic, but they won't go on epic for a bit. 

 

Theres 2016, 2017, 2018, and 2019.  See you guys in 2020.

[Quicktor 1,348]

if that all would be true, we wouldnt have threads like these, no?

guess its at the time my posts are just gonna get insta removed, but that doesnt change anything about the graphs you still dont want to acknowledge

[Retrograde 12,013]

1 minute ago, MrGARY said:

 

 

 

 

Theres 2016, 2017, 2018, and 2019.  See you guys in 2020.

Yes, things come up and push other things back, it's the main reason why we've been hesitant with sharing our roadmap, because so much has come up between then and now. It's possible the future epic works get delayed further, but we'll continue working towards it.

[FranktheTank 1,901]

Nice post delete losers.

 

Deleting my memes won't bring the playerbase back.

Edited May 19, 2019 by FranktheTank

[Retrograde 12,013]

If your post adds nothing to the discussion then it can be removed.

 

posting a laughing face about epic in 2020 is nothing that is needed,wanted, or constructive. 

 

If you wish to participate in the discussion, feel free to 

[FranktheTank 1,901]

Just now, Retrograde said:

If your post adds nothing to the discussion then it can be removed.

 

posting a laughing face about epic in 2020 is nothing that is needed,wanted, or constructive. 

 

If you wish to participate in the discussion, feel free to 

Maybe some of the reason why people left is the fact they feel censored ingame and on the forums by staff who work to undermine discussion.

[Retrograde 12,013]

1 minute ago, FranktheTank said:

Maybe some of the reason why people left is the fact they feel censored ingame and on the forums by staff who work to undermine discussion.

It depends on what you value as discussion. 

 

If you wish to contribute to the discussion about pvp issues you are always welcome to.

 

If you consider a laughing face "contributing" then I would advise spending more time working on your posts

[FranktheTank 1,901]

4 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

It depends on what you value as discussion. 

 

If you wish to contribute to the discussion about pvp issues you are always welcome to.

 

If you consider a laughing face "contributing" then I would advise spending more time working on your posts

Most of my considerate posts were on account 1 & 2. I account 3 I learned quickly how unfair some things are.

[whereami 564]

52 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

As for the major PvP works in the past, tweaks and future plans, we'll continue adjusting based on feedback, and as we approach the opportunity for more PvP specific works we'll work with you all then too

 

@RetrogradeSo if the only way you will care enough to listen to us is if we post in an "official" thread in an "official" board, where and how can we discuss other necessary changes to the PvP mechanics so that we can receive dialogue from you and actually get things done? PvP has been long in a downward spiral. The priest and tower changes are but two small, recent things that contributed to a recent exodus of players, but the players have been leaving for years. All of these things need touching on, but we can't do that if you're ignoring us because you think we're not using the "proper channels" which I still think is absolute bollocks and totally archaic by the way.

[Retrograde 12,013]

It's not so much about the proper channels, but the small pieces of useful feedback being lost in the white noise that is PvP banter.

 

Tower chaining has it's own thread in feature feedback as the big things do need a more heavily moderated place to be effective we've found, elsewhere it just devolves to KvK banter and bashing each other and staff. 

 

If there's other things, the suggestions board is a place to focus on small aspects, or larger ones.

 

And before anyone says anything, the epic focused suggestions are read, but again, no plans until next year

[Quicktor 1,348]

alright, last try on getting somewhere, how about you open a thread in the next week or so like you did before the big epic overhaul

a thread we all can leave our feedback (even though we have already), about whats wrong and what needs to be done, all in one place

it was done before by budda if i remember correctly, and i am sure enough people that know whats going on will be so kind and post their thoughts in there for the 100th time, sound good?

[Retrograde 12,013]

4 minutes ago, Quicktor said:

alright, last try on getting somewhere, how about you open a thread in the next week or so like you did before the big epic overhaul

a thread we all can leave our feedback (even though we have already), about whats wrong and what needs to be done, all in one place

it was done before by budda if i remember correctly, and i am sure enough people that know whats going on will be so kind and post their thoughts in there for the 100th time, sound good?

The issue with that is we are unlikely to be able to do anything about it until our current major projects are out of the way. 

 

This means more talking and nothing happening for six or more months minimum, which doesn't help. When we are closer to being able to pick it up as the big work we will be able to share our vision for it, what we want and why and work with that. 

[platinumteef 2,200]

6 months minimum for anything to be done with pvp?

[Quicktor 1,348]

so how about giving us info on what you are working, cause thats literally the only thing you get out of your system at any given point "we are working on something"

 

fix this mess of no transparency, how many times do we have to tell you that thats a huge problem?

[Retrograde 12,013]

1 minute ago, platinumteef said:

6 months minimum for anything to be done with pvp?

Beyond tweaks with existing systems, bug fixes and general ui/ux updates yes, most likely that period of time before major pvp work 

[whereami 564]

Or how about (here's a genius goddamn idea) we worry about fixing the mechanics and broken facets of the game that we already have instead of adding new things to break over time?

[Retrograde 12,013]

Just now, Quicktor said:

so how about giving us info on what you are working, cause thats literally the only thing you get out of your system at any given point "we are working on something"

 

fix this mess of no transparency, how many times do we have to tell you that thats a huge problem?

We aren't working on anything pvp related. 

 

What we are working on will be shared once it's underway, we've changed our dev cycles to better work on major projects released in periodic predictable times. It's still all in the early phases and identifying what's going where. 

[Quicktor 1,348]

you are postponing everything you have been saying for the last years, to basically let us know NOW after we have tried to get a definitive answer for months that nothing is gonna happen with pvp?

yeah get ready to lose even more subs lol, rip

[Cecci 1,609]

It is as if you don't care about the fact that people now quit pvp cause of the priest situation.

 

The massive income from the Chaos pmk's and deeds was an important part of your employers income, this money serve to pay your wages.

Last years financial report looks bad and this years report will look worse when it comes.

Staff should work towards raising the company income.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Cecci
typo

[Meep 284]

I mean most people here seem to agree that the biggest problem is the lack of info, feels like we have a higher chance of getting to know the secrets of scientology from little Tom then we have of getting to know what's being worked at with Wurm.

 

And it does not really help when the only answer is " you get to know what we work on once it is done" just be more people leaving and as always during summer numbers will go down when people do other things instead...question is how many more summers there will be before people stop coming back....might be time to get off the high horse and get on the pony and work more with the players instead of looking down on them as they would be stupid. After all they are the ones paying for the game.....

 

[Alexgopen 2,376]

1 hour ago, FranktheTank said:

Maybe some of the reason why people left is the fact they feel censored ingame and on the forums by staff who work to undermine discussion.

 

Like OP was asking, this was the last straw that caused me to finally leave for good.

[platinumteef 2,200]

i abandoned pvp due to lack of it moving in the right direction and the inability to know 6 months down the road whether or not the focus is going to be epic or chaos (and epic has its own skill system that you get nothing for on the freedom side) or a new cluster or freedom or will pvp and its entirety be gone

 

 

[Sindusk 2,448]

All of this heated debate is entirely self-inflicted. The unwillingness to be a more open and communicative entity causes all of these threads. Your players - no, your customers - are literally just asking for information. Information that's being adamantly refused based on policy with roots in ancient history. Games survive by adapting to their player base. When League of Legends first came out, it was marketed towards younger players with a more animated art style and more colorful characters than their competition. Over time, the player base grew up and now you have characters resembling a harbor butcher and heavy metal meat grinder in the game. When Path of Exile first came out, it was marketed towards those who wanted a dark, slow, gritty ARPG. It's adapted over time and become a fast-paced, high-depth ARPG that now dwarfs the genre.

 

If you want Wurm to continue, it's time to re-evaluate and adapt to your market. The refusal to change the way you share information and stifling it from your consumers is ancient. It predates my introduction to the game entirely - years ago. You need to bury the hatchet and win back your community (both players from before and after) instead of holding them at arms length and hoping the problem goes away.

 

Your fear for sharing information comes from getting flamed in the past. Welcome to the internet. Everyone gets flamed no matter what they do. You get flamed right now for not sharing future plans. You share future plans, you get flamed for those plans not being good. The plan gets delayed, you get flamed for not getting it done. You execute your plan, you get flamed because the implementation was bad. I've been flamed for releasing a free, open-source public mod here on these very forums, calling it shoddy work and a disservice to the community. The perception of the general public comes from how you handle pressure and respond to getting flamed. Frankly, and sorry if this comes off as flame; you're not doing a very good job of that.

 

First of all, agree with people when they say something correct. When someone mentions an issue that's valid, such as priests being a sore spot in PvP, just admit it's a fair point. Now they know their issue is recognized and you're on the same side. When you're on their side and agree with them, you can then correct their points. Follow that up with information about how you would address it, or just tell them it's something that will be addressed later.

 

Secondly, learn to take a knee and apologize when mistakes are made. If you recall this incident, you can notice very clearly there's no official statement saying something along the lines of "Sorry we banned over a dozen people who weren't even online at the time. Here's why, and we'll do better in the future." It's actually remarkable how looking through so many public statements, the only one that even resembles an apology is when horses turned gray. Even then, the lines are remarkably unapologetic.

 

Quote

To apologise for this incident we will be giving out an extra 5 hours sleep bonus to all players, as usual passing the 5 hour cap up to 10 hours if necessary.

 

We thank you all for your patience while we handle tickets and return the horses to their new colours! 

 

Third and finally, make clear official statements regarding popular issues. If you hear something enough times (cough epic cough) you should be willing to put your foot down and make a clear, official statement regarding that topic to set the record straight. Not here in this thread, not even in the one asking for it. In the City Hall with a thread of it's own, addressing the topic in the most clear manner you can. I know the argument to this will be "there is nothing to say" which, while false, can still be worked around. State in an official manner that there's no plan, or some plan, or a plan in the works, or whatever - and that it will or will not be coming out any time soon. Say that epic will remain open or not for X amount of time. Take questions you see a lot regarding the topic and answer them.

 

You don't need a release date. You don't need a roadmap with a sequential plan. You don't even need a plan. You just need go get over this stupid policy of leaving your customers theorizing potential futures and wallowing in the unknown.