Why was PvP abandoned?

[whereami 564]

I want to pose this as a general, but serious question to all people whom may take the time to read this thread. Doesn't matter if you're a Dev, GM, or just a pest-.. I mean, player.

Wurm's vision, generally when I first joined, seemed to be almost entirely PvP. At least half of the game, likely much more at the time, was geared towards giving PvP a unique feel and experience.

Nearly all of the lore of the game is PvP based. There are huge mechanics that are gold sinks like PMK's that took years upon years of development, and are ONLY available on PvP.

There was a section of the game back then (Freedom/Independance) where you could go to for PvE-Only but it was heavily lacking in features and flesh, and there just really didn't feel like there was much of a purpose to playing there.

 

Flash forward to 2019 and I really don't think much has changed with PvE as a whole. There's still no reason or purpose to play there.

 

But PvP, has been wholly and entirely abandoned by the devs, with not even so much as a mentioning to give us hope that they will do something to fix its absolute piss-poor state.

 

To the Devs: Why did you just abandon the side of the game that nearly 60% of your game and 100% of its lore, is based on? Was it too hard to fix? Is it the players? Do you simply not care? This is a serious question, I genuinely want to know why more than half of this game has been laid waste to.

 

And for everyone else...

 

Why did you abandon Wurm PvP? Which straw broke your horse's back?

List anything and everything. I want to know why it was that people left, so that we can determine if it was a number of reasons or maybe only a handful.

Edited May 19, 2019 by whereami

[Rhianna 892]

For me it started with a succession of nerfs. First an archery nerf many years ago, then the armor / archery change, shield training in pen nerf, adding in of tomes, change to epic, Sindusks change then leaving and nothing else being done to balance it. Playing with, and against,  the same ever diminishing group of players for so long, finally the game was no longer fun so I left. I'd probably say Sindusks armor / priest change played a huge part - I hate being a priest but you cannot really play on a pvp server against pretty much all priests anymore. The ever increasing list of things that are needed to pvp, I cannot see how new players have much of a chance anymore unless fully equipped by pmks. As Postes said in another thread you used to be able to get out there in chain, with a sword and shield, no longer can you do that. Maybe it is because I've been playing for 7 years and just grown tired of those changes I mentioned as well..

 

I also hate playing on the old, tired maps that are littered with ruins and old collapsed tunnels. I would definately come back for a new pve map, or a complete change and new map for pvp, as long as it was stripped down to basics, no tomes, etc

Edited May 19, 2019 by Rhianna

[Retrograde 12,013]

In the past few major updates we've included:

PvP priest spell overhaul and balancing 

Tower chaining mechanics 

New hota system 

 

All of these have been incredibly in depth works aimed at improving the flow of the game around pvp. 

 

Is pvp perfect? No, and we will continue to add improvements and would love feedback on the issues the aforementioned updates have brought out, we also aim to improve the general flow and information of combat too, which is something we will touch on a bit later with a planned roadmap. 

 

Sindusk being gone doesn't mean his work is abandoned, both darklords and ausimus have done tremendous work addressing issues within these updates and we are more than happy to discuss possible tweaks and balances. 

[Quicktor 1,346]

just as a tip retro....

look into the other 30ish threads that are about this games flaws and the failures of recent updates / neglection of a whole cluster, maybe you get a better idea then, dont know

[Retrograde 12,013]

2 minutes ago, Quicktor said:

look into the other 30ish threads that are about this games flaws and the failures of recent updates / neglection of a whole cluster, maybe you get a better idea then, dont know

Well standing aside from epic's obvious issues. 

 

We know it has issues, we know it needs a LOT of work to turn around, it's not a tweak or balance situation there. 

 

I'm aware of the feedback in the testing threads about the changes, and regularly check on them. I can't say I go hunting through every PvP related thread for feedback amongst the KvK banter 

[Quicktor 1,346]

wew who would expect that kind of dedication from a community relations coordinator, i am sorry my bad

[Wiolo 219]

Hey wanna play just as well as most others? Pay up big time buddy.

Stop this.

[whereami 564]

1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

@RetrogradeIs pvp perfect? No, and we will continue to add improvements and would love feedback on the issues the aforementioned updates have brought out

 

So where are the changes? You've been told there is an imbalance, and now you're even admitting that you are aware of it publicly.

 

I don't see anything being done to balance the overpowering of priests or to counter their overuse in PvP. There's been countless threads on it, most the ones that contain decent information locked or removed by your moderators long since.

Edited May 19, 2019 by whereami

[Retrograde 12,013]

Just now, whereami said:

I don't see anything being done to balance the overpowering of priests or to counter their overuse in PvP. There's been countless threads on it, most the ones that contain decent information locked or removed by your moderators long since.

I mean, if there's balance discussion to be had, feel free to add it here: 

If it's arguing and yelling and leading to threads being locked or remove, it's not constructive at all. 

 

[Chakron 1,023]

Remove all PvP from Wurm, problem solved.

[Chakron 1,023]

You have a reasonable argument that you keep destroying by always posting things like “as you know, the developers are stupid and worthless. Now let’s have a well-reasoned discussion!” Anyone with half a brain is going to continue to ignore you or troll your posts.

[whereami 564]

26 minutes ago, Chakron said:

You have a reasonable argument that you keep destroying by always posting things like “as you know, the developers are stupid and worthless. Now let’s have a well-reasoned discussion!” Anyone with half a brain is going to continue to ignore you or troll your posts.

I haven't called anyone stupid or worthless, have I?

 

I stated some pretty easy to acquire factual information - If instead of trying to troll my thread yourself, you would have simply clicked Retro's link, you would see that he linked to a thread that hasn't been posted in for two months - Likely, if I had to guess, because no dev or moderator of any kind posted there to even let us know they're still watching that thread in over a page and a half -  Nor has it even been cleaned up properly - three out of the last six posts are useless banter - If you can stomach skimming further you'd find the whole last page is basically nonsense.

 

Absolutely comical, you guys are a joke. The discussion that has taken place in other threads doesn't matter, because it wasn't in some thread that got killed more than two months ago???

Edited May 19, 2019 by whereami

[Retrograde 12,013]

We do tend to prefer discussion about features to be within the forum rules, detailed, and in the right place. 

 

If you feel there's something raising please do post it in there. It's where the devs look for the feedback, not the PvP threads 

[Nappy 1,369]

2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

In the past few major updates we've included:

PvP priest spell overhaul and balancing 

Tower chaining mechanics 

New hota system 

 

All of these have been incredibly in depth works aimed at improving the flow of the game around pvp. 

 

Is pvp perfect? No, and we will continue to add improvements and would love feedback on the issues the aforementioned updates have brought out, we also aim to improve the general flow and information of combat too, which is something we will touch on a bit later with a planned roadmap. 

 

Sindusk being gone doesn't mean his work is abandoned, both darklords and ausimus have done tremendous work addressing issues within these updates and we are more than happy to discuss possible tweaks and balances. 

 

Read the threads where lots and lots of people are giving you their feedback on current game state. Your customers don't share the same perception as you, the service providers, do. More and more people seem to be voting with their feet too.

 

Planned roadmap - Many times promised, never delivered.

 

Sindusk, Ausimus and Darklords do great and fantastic things without a doubt. I have seen their work first hand in WU.  

 

What's lacking is solid communication. When is that coming?

[Retrograde 12,013]

7 minutes ago, Nappy said:

Planned roadmap - Many times promised, never delivered

We've not been promising a roadmap, quite the opposite, the roadmap we work on internally is in very general terms, and that doesn't translate well for in depth ideas. 

 

We're in the process of expanding and explaining it to share but it isn't ready yet, this is the first time I am saying one is coming though. 

 

The problem with chasing every pvp thread is 90% of it is pvp banter and unrelated, which means sifting through a huge amount in order to filter the feedback, it's why we have feedback threads publicly available in their own section, allowing feedback to be given there and discourage the usual pvp arguing. 

 

It's still open and there to use, please do so. 

 

I am specifically referring to pvp mechanics here, not epic. 

[whereami 564]

11 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

We do tend to prefer discussion about features to be within the forum rules, detailed, and in the right place. 

 

If you feel there's something raising please do post it in there. It's where the devs look for the feedback, not the PvP threads 

 

How incredibly lame.

 

So the numerous, easily 10 to 15 threads in which some, albeit little, actual discussion has taken place doesn't matter to you because it wasn't in some thread that died over two months ago? One not a single dev has posted in since February?

[Quicktor 1,346]

1 minute ago, Retrograde said:

I am specifically referring to pvp mechanics here, not epic. 

 

so can we once and for all just say that epic is not a thing you intend to work on in the next 1-2 years?

[Retrograde 12,013]

2 minutes ago, whereami said:

 

How incredibly lame.

 

So the numerous, easily 10 to 15 threads in which some, albeit little, actual discussion has taken place doesn't matter to you because it wasn't in some thread that died over two months ago? One not a single dev has posted in since February?

Well it's where the feedback goes, and there has been numerous tweaks based on feedback from there. Some parts of the next update will touch on spell and feedback too.

 

1 minute ago, Quicktor said:

 

so can we once and for all just say that epic is not a thing you intend to work on in the next 1-2 years?

No major work for epic planned until next year at the earliest. Epic will need a major focus from multiple developers and that's just not in the cards at the moment. We have one or two big updates in the works will which pave the way and be prototypes for the changes to epic, but they won't go on epic for a bit. 

[Chakron 1,023]

41 minutes ago, whereami said:

I haven't called anyone stupid or worthless, have I?

 

Absolutely comical, you guys are a joke. 

 

The same post. Impressive!

[nicedreams 1,035]

12 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

No major work for epic planned until next year at the earliest. Epic will need a major focus from multiple developers and that's just not in the cards at the moment. We have one or two big updates in the works will which pave the way and be prototypes for the changes to epic, but they won't go on epic for a bit. 

 

Glad we finally got an answer about Epic.  Thanks.

[whereami 564]

16 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Well it's where the feedback goes, and there has been numerous tweaks based on feedback from there. Some parts of the next update will touch on spell and feedback too.

 

I ... I don't think you get it... It's one thing if the last post in that thread was a Dev or GM saying they were looking for more feedback - That is not the case.

 

The last Dev posted in that thread over four months ago.

There is over a page and half of content after that point.

 

None of it has even been cleaned, a lot of that content doesn't even need to be in that thread. It would also be acceptable for you to use this as a reply, if you had your moderation team clean the thread up a bit and post in there acknowledging that it was still open, and encouraging further on-topic discussion as would be EXPECTED if you were looking to continue seeking improvements on the topic in THAT specific thread.

 

Instead, no moderators or developers of any kind whatsoever have acknowledged the presence of THAT freaking thread specifically since that time, and now all of a sudden you're telling me that even though some of these discussions have taken place in YOUR OWN NEWS POSTS, they don't matter.. Because none of it happened in the "official" feedback thread in an "official" board that not even the devs have acknowledged the presence of in months.

 

All the meanwhile you admit that you have read up on the discussions that have taken place elsewhere, and are fully aware of the issues which are present. So instead of you wanting this discussion to take place (Which it already has) but in a "specific" ssection of the forums like someone with OCD, it sounds, actually, like you're just dragging your ass on fixing them.

Edited May 19, 2019 by whereami

[Ekcin 2,402]

Just now, nicedreams said:

 

Glad we finally got an answer about Epic.  Thanks.

 

I agree. And though it is maybe less than some may have expected, it is also less bad than feared.

[Retrograde 12,013]

7 minutes ago, whereami said:

 

I ... I don't think you get it... It's one thing if the last post in that thread was a Dev or GM saying they were looking for more feedback - That is not the case.

 

The last Dev posted in that thread over four months ago.

There is over a page and half of content after that point.

 

None of it has even been cleaned, a lot of that content doesn't even need to be in that thread. It would also be acceptable for you to use this as a reply, if you had your moderation team clean the thread up a bit and post in there acknowledging that it was still open, and encouraging further on-topic discussion as would be EXPECTED if you were looking to continue seeking improvements on the topic in THAT specific thread.

 

Instead, no moderators or developers of any kind whatsoever have acknowledged the presence of THAT freaking thread specifically since that time, and now all of a sudden you're telling me that even though some of these discussions have taken place in YOUR OWN NEWS POSTS, they don't matter.. Because none of it happened in the "official" feedback thread in an "official" board that not even the devs have acknowledged the presence of in months.

 

All the meanwhile you admit that you have read up on the discussions that have taken place elsewhere, and are fully aware of the issues which are present. So instead of you wanting this discussion to take place, it sounds, actually, like you're just dragging your ass on fixing them.

Was more a generalised comment than actually reading through everything, there's tidbits here and there and when I see them I pass the info on, but a lot more is missed because it's only talked about in discord, pvp thread or elsewhere that isnt routinely checked for feedback. 

That thread has always been open, and unless it's locked it's always welcome to post feedback, that's the place we check Just like the bug reports are where we check for bugs. 

 

Devs havent replied because there's not been any activity on it, spending hours seeking feedback for updates that players aren't talking about is a significant expenditure of time that is better put elsewhere, but if there is feedback post it there and we can and will review it.

 

If you'd like it cleaned I'd be happy to refer it to the forum team for review. 

[Quicktor 1,346]

yeah you right, we havent provided any feedback at all, must have been a dream, a looooooooooooong, boring, dream

btw, read it a few days ago, but still no answer on that thread you dont even go through

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Quicktor

[Retrograde 12,013]

Not gonna lie, that's a little stalky