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Etherdrifter

The State of PvE Magic (Fo)

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***THIS IS NOT A THREAD ON "HOW TO SAVE WURM"***

 

***I AM WELL AWARE THAT THESE SPELLS MAY BE USEFUL ON PvP SERVERS, THIS IS NOT AN ANALYSIS ON PvP SPELL UTILITY, IT IS A LOOK AT PvE SPELL UTILITY***

First things first; well done to the devs.  The current situation is MUCH better than the way things used to be; priest QoL is much higher, and the goals have given us something to do when we're between projects.  Yes, it's annoying to have to log on my free alt to cut a tree down that has grown on my lawn, but at least I can unblock my own tunnel now.

 

Now onto the slightly bad news; there are a fair few "stub" spells that still have 0 use in PvE, save to take up spell slots.  This list is shorter than it used to be; so there is good progress here.  If this list were reduced further, I doubt anyone would complain.

 

The following Fo spells have no use on PvE:

 

  • Acid Protection (99% useless on PvE, I think there is one mob that uses acid attacks)
  • Bear Paws (100% useless on PvE)
  • Cleanse (99% useless on PvE once you grind gardening past 10)
  • Forest Giant Strength (99% useless on PvE unless you need a very short term boost to strength)
  • Morning Fog (99% useless on PvE, only really useful for very early channel grind)
  • Ward (100% useless on PvE)
  • Willowspine (100% useless on PvE)

 

There are also these spells, which are useless for everyone on PvE:
 

  • Break Altar (100% useless on PvE)
  • Locate Artefact (100% useless on PvE)
  • Nolocate (99% useless on PvE, unless you do not want anyone to be able to find you ever)
  • Purge (100% useless on PvE)
  • Sixth Sense (100% useless on PvE)
  • Tangle Weave (100% useless on PvE)

 

So, for Fo, 13/36 spells are either completely useless, or barely useful to the point that they're not worth wasting the favor on, at least on PvE servers.  This is leaving out spells which are situationally useful (things you might cast a lot for a short time, then not cast again for over 6 months).  I suspect that this is the second largest number (since a lot of Lib's spells just don't work on PvE due to mechanic conflicts), but it is still a strong case for modification in the name of balance.

 

The buff spells (Bear Paws, Forest Giant Strength, Morning Fog, and Willowspine) are just lackluster; they're not something you bother casting because their effect is negligable and short lived.  Buffing their impact, as well as extending their duration, on a PvE server would go a long way to making them something you'd want to cast.

 

Acid Protection, Purge and Tangle Weave generally fall under useless, because mobs that use acid on PvE are rare (I think it's only one?), no mobs use buff spells (that I know of), and tangleweave just doesn't do much to mob cast times.  Adding in some extra mobs (acid damage sounds like a good one for a man eating plant...), allowing some mobs to buff others (wolf howls to increase the damage of all younger wolves nearby for example), and drastically increasing the impact tangleweave has on spellcasting mobs would render these spells as something you might want to cast.

 

Cleanse I've gone over again and again; it needs more utility than 9 grass.  ONE flower and 30 gardening can do that much faster.

 

Ward and Sixth Sense are really factional spells; giving them a different effect for PvE is really the only way to go.  A simple utility, such as allowing ward to be cast on a player to give them the animal truce passive, is a good way to go.

 

Locate Artefact and Break Altar are spells designed for PvP, and really belong to PvP.
 

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57 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

Yes, it's annoying to have to log on my free alt to cut a tree down that has grown on my lawn,

just spam wild growth on it until it's shriveled then 1 more cast kills it 😉 i did that to clear out farm lands, 10 linked accounts gave me around a 23x23 area in a single cast, was hilarious

 

Mag has dominate, inferno, wrath of mag, firepillar, fireheart, mole senses, smite, blaze, light token, goat shape for spells that are a waste of time unless you're like collecting champion trolls for your zoo or whatever it is mag priests do in their spare time. add in the 6 everyone has and that's 16/36.

 

Vyn has aosp, reveal settlements, human demise, excel, hypothermia, ice pillar, shard of ice, tentacles, tornado, add in 6 everyone has and that's 15/36

 

i'm not going to bother doing lib because we know the answer already

 

depending on how you feel, you could also add every demise (outperformed by imbue+damage rings, around double damage of what demise adds), reveal creatures, fire+ice protection as only rift mobs use them and the pillars do jack all damage+can just dispel the ground under you, opulence because foods easy to make once you're set up, sunders only used for weird grinds like making low ql water, dirts only used for grinding even though its an awful spell for grinding, charm's just a super tame and again only need it for collecting champs because you have a zoo and stuff like champ crocs are a pita to tame, i imagine nobody disintegrates instead of making a deed to mine out walls, probably missing a whole bunch of spells as thats just from looking over the spell list and thinking "man that sucks"

 

it's interesting how garbage most priest spells are, pretty much every single combat buff isn't really worth casting unless you're just throwing away the favor you're regenning while out fighting, frantic charge and truehit are the 2 good ones since they help you kill things faster, i like willowspine since it feels like nothing hits me when i have it casted, but nothing really damages me fast enough to beat out natural regen, and someone who's not super strong wouldn't have the body control to use the dodge bonus from willowspine effectively. i think it's something like half an hour for most of them at max cast which isn't really worth going back to deed to buff up if you've got priest alts, but if you've got favor to use while you're a priest that's hunting, they're "okay" at best.

 

Upping the timer length, or making them usable a different way, maybe like socketed rings, you cast it on a gem and socket it and you get x hours of a version of the spell, would make them more accessible.

Ward i haven't used in a while, but i'm fairly sure it makes every mob in like a 10 tile radius go into defensive and no-target even in pve. no idea why you'd ever want that but i guess you can troll your friends at the rifts or unique slayings with it, but phantasms is more fun. FGS straight up doesn't give me any body strength so i wouldn't be able to comment on it, i assume it's curved towards weaker accounts. Most of the spells seem like they were made meh on purpose so they're not problematic in pvp or whatever, but purge is a thing now so eh. I guess the fact that 99% of the playerbase only thinks of priests as alts chained to an altar means that working towards making interesting spell interactions in combat seem like they're adding content for an extreme minority in the game that could be spent elsewhere.

 

bring back inferno 1 shotting trolls, that was cool

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Posted (edited)

I still think that priest restrictions should be lifted. And channeling should be broke up in X skills for each spell so you grind what you want like the rest of stuff in Wurm or you don't..

If you wanna chance to cast 100 coc guess what you have to grind to 90 skill atleast.. Would fit Wurm much better, but hey that's just me maybe. Instead we will have sets of halfuseful spells...

I also think priests should be able to sell their spells indirectly so I like idea about socketed rings and enchanted gems for them

Edited by kochinac

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Okay, 13/36 spells are useless on pve, but how much are REALLY useful on pvp?

On 5/19/2019 at 12:56 AM, Etherdrifter said:

Morning Fog

Completely useless, maybe except situation when raided deed is full of thorns around, but in 2019 no one raids deeds.

On 5/19/2019 at 12:56 AM, Etherdrifter said:

Cleanse

xD

On 5/19/2019 at 12:56 AM, Etherdrifter said:

Forest Giant Strength

No one use that, never noticed - maybe when u has 22 bstr account and want to boost that, but who pvp with low bstr accounts except me?

 

On 5/19/2019 at 12:56 AM, Etherdrifter said:

Ward

wtf is that?

On 5/19/2019 at 12:56 AM, Etherdrifter said:

Willowspine

Never noticed, probably its just not worth but maybe i am wrong

On 5/19/2019 at 12:56 AM, Etherdrifter said:

Bear Paws

The spells effect messages suggest that you gain more body strength when using weaponless fighting and this up your combat rating for weaponless fighting.

Useless on pvp also ;)

 

 

As Oblivion said, every priests has bad, useless spells and useful ones, that are reason for becoming them.

I havent noticed any summary in your post. You listed spells and what?

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It's just that, a summary.  Stub spells really need fleshing out, this is a list of spells that constitute stubs, in my opinion, and why they could be considered stubs by others.

 

Oblivion raised up good points for other priests, let's see where the ball rolls, or if it sits there and wobbles.

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Posted (edited)

Taken from my priest overhaul spreadsheet, which can be found here:

 

unknown.png

 

The list I made of "useless" spells varies from yours, and includes the following:

Spoiler

 

Break Altar

Locate Artifact

Purge

Tangleweave

Web Armour

Acid Protection

Corrosion

Poison Protection

Toxin

Corrupt

Disintegrate

Land of the Dead

Sixth Sense

Ward

Zombie Infestation

Morning Fog

Sunder

Weakness

 

 

As you can see from the numbers, Fo is pretty middle of the road when it comes to having "usless" spells.  Almost 33% of Nathan's spells are useless, whereas Fo is only 25%.  Vynora and Nahjo are in pretty good shape, but everyone else is pretty equally balanced when it comes to useless spells.

 

If we're going to count "95% useless" spells, I can come up with many more for every diety, not just Fo.

Edited by Wargasm

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Bear Paws isn't useless on PvE.  With it casted you can easily get hurts, harms, damages depending on the mob.  I was even able to kill Eaglespirits with it and yesterday I got a Sea Serpent down to about 70% health before it started naturally healing.  It's more 'useless' in PvP.

 

Now that doesn't mean it is fine as is... some sort of slight buff might be good and maybe changing weaponless too (special moves plz).  

 

Of course, we all know that won't happen because a lot of people here have the mindset that Weaponless = useless skill or Weaponless = not realistic against actual weapons.

 

... I think I have enough experience with this useless skill and spell to talk about it, currently 92.5 in it. 

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On 5/19/2019 at 12:56 AM, Etherdrifter said:

Bear Paws (100% useless on PvE)

 

A note about this. It's very strong after priest update.

This spell allows you to currently grind weaponless with ease.

 

It even allowed me to battle 1v1 against an opponent with armor and weapons, while me being naked with a shield only (and win) // I outskilled the other players but it was still fun.

 

Anyways, that particular spell is very useful in it's field.

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5 hours ago, Sn00 said:

 

A note about this. It's very strong after priest update.

This spell allows you to currently grind weaponless with ease.

 

It even allowed me to battle 1v1 against an opponent with armor and weapons, while me being naked with a shield only (and win) // I outskilled the other players but it was still fun.

 

Anyways, that particular spell is very useful in it's field.

 

What sort of body stats are you at?  I'll admit I've not tried this spell out recently, but I am fairly certain that it's probably only going to work well if you already have reasonable body stats to back it up.

 

I'm also fairly certain that it's probably going to be worse than geared combat (so why would one use it unless one REALLY wanted to roleplay a monk?).

 

19 hours ago, Wargasm said:

The list I made of "useless" spells varies from yours

 

Aye, you seem to deem the buff spells as useful, whereas all my experiments with them haven't really shown them to be worth more than casting an extra few heals.  I'd disagree that Toxin is useless, unless all the other damage buff spells are as well, since they have the same impact.

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Excel is extremely useful, the increased parry rate has saved my life once or twice in my PvP ventures.  But the other similar spells like willowspine and truehit are not going to make or break your ability to kill a troll on Freedom.

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I agree that PvE could be made more interesting with mobs having different tactics and effects. Targeting a mob and positioning onto higher ground is about all it takes. So dull.

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Posted (edited)

A lot of the stuff you listed isn't actually useless.

 

Acid Protection: I'll agree not exactly helpful

Bear Paws: Extremely useful to level up weaponless fighting.

Cleanse: I haven't tested it's function yet

Forest Giant Strength: If you're a Fo you should be applying this, anyone can use it now for a fairly decent strength boost based on power.

eaWbhg4.png

Morning Fog: Dude, milking cmon!

Willowspine: Cheap combat enhancer, use it!

Break Altar: I agree not useful for PvE

Locate Artefact: Again I agree useless.

Nolocate: Useful for uniques & stalkers

Purge: Spars/duels 

Sixth sense: Probably useless, haven't used it really

Tangle Weave: The most important spell you have during Rifts that no one uses, USE IT! Interrupt those AOEs! 

 

Edited by Niki

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maybe u should check old game spells eg might n majic 7 or 8 hehe way better

 

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On 5/21/2019 at 7:21 PM, Etherdrifter said:

What sort of body stats are you at?  I'll admit I've not tried this spell out recently, but I am fairly certain that it's probably only going to work well if you already have reasonable body stats to back it up.

 

I don't want to be specific. But higher than average.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/22/2019 at 4:36 PM, Niki said:

A lot of the stuff you listed isn't actually useless.

 

Acid Protection: I'll agree not exactly helpful

Bear Paws: Extremely useful to level up weaponless fighting.

Cleanse: I haven't tested it's function yet

Forest Giant Strength: If you're a Fo you should be applying this, anyone can use it now for a fairly decent strength boost based on power.

Morning Fog: Dude, milking cmon!

Willowspine: Cheap combat enhancer, use it!

Break Altar: I agree not useful for PvE

Locate Artefact: Again I agree useless.

Nolocate: Useful for uniques & stalkers

Purge: Spars/duels 

Sixth sense: Probably useless, haven't used it really

Tangle Weave: The most important spell you have during Rifts that no one uses, USE IT! Interrupt those AOEs! 

 

Those strength gains look better than I remember, but my main gripe was the duration.  I'd easily get more out of a heal cast than a forest giant strength cast.

 

Bearpaws moves into the 95% useless category, since no-one wants to have to cast a spell before every fight (especially if even a weak weapon would be better!)

 

Willowspine just doesn't give enough of a boost to justify casting it.  If it gave a noticable boost, with a longer duration, it would be worth casting.

 

Nolocate could go in the 99% useless section, since 99% of players are not involved in unique dramas (and stalkers are something to be reported to a GM).

 

Purge - 0 use, spars and duals are rare enough, between priests are rarer still!

 

Tangle Wave : If a single AoE did more damage, this might be worthwhile.

Edited by Etherdrifter

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On 5/20/2019 at 6:37 PM, Wargasm said:

Taken from my priest overhaul spreadsheet, which can be found here:

 

unknown.png

 

The list I made of "useless" spells varies from yours, and includes the following:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Break Altar

Locate Artifact

Purge

Tangleweave

Web Armour

Acid Protection

Corrosion

Poison Protection

Toxin

Corrupt

Disintegrate

Land of the Dead

Sixth Sense

Ward

Zombie Infestation

Morning Fog

Sunder

Weakness

 

 

As you can see from the numbers, Fo is pretty middle of the road when it comes to having "usless" spells.  Almost 33% of Nathan's spells are useless, whereas Fo is only 25%.  Vynora and Nahjo are in pretty good shape, but everyone else is pretty equally balanced when it comes to useless spells.

 

If we're going to count "95% useless" spells, I can come up with many more for every diety, not just Fo.

wait web armour is useless?

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3 hours ago, tamat said:

wait web armour is useless?

 

On freedom, yes it is useless. 

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43 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

 

On freedom, yes it is useless. 

curious i saw more people selling and buying high end armour with web armour than asop

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Posted (edited)

I am no PvPer, but I started grinding weaponless fighting just for fun.

(And my starting affinity is in that skill)

So I ride around with my Fo priest alt also on the cart, only to cast Bearpaws on my main.

It works really well if you manage to get a decent cast. The spell is pretty cheap to cast (20 favor).

Also the Fo priest special ability comes in handy as in very few critters ever try to attack the priest.

 

Edited by griper

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1 hour ago, Wargasm said:

 

On freedom, yes it is useless. 

web armor up to doubles the mobs swing time on the attack they hit you with, aosp reflects like 20% of the damage you take which mobs don't do much of. how is web armor the useless one, it makes you insanely tanky

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With Frontier update, Fo might have more use because it sounds like a lot of changes are coming for both PVE and PVP and I'm hpyed for both, for once.

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17 hours ago, Mclavin said:

With Frontier update, Fo might have more use because it sounds like a lot of changes are coming for both PVE and PVP and I'm hpyed for both, for once.

 

I very much doubt it, but would any of us still be here if we hadn't learned to hope in the face of all evidence?

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19 hours ago, Mclavin said:

With Frontier update, Fo might have more use because it sounds like a lot of changes are coming for both PVE and PVP and I'm hpyed for both, for once.

if is like fishing update, no thanks

 

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I'm sorry but I must disagree here.   Fo has always been indispensable, and the changes haven't really disabled the Fo, IMO.  If anything, it becomes easier to level a Fo now that we have Cleanse, which is an excellent spell for the channeling grind.

 

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