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Ekcin

Stop KoS abuse and exploit through alts in PvE

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I recently have the (minor) problem that a well known ill famed toxic player, who holds a highway connected deed nearby, declared KoS on my deed by an alt deed planted directly adjacent to my deed. Though the "menace" is minor, it is molesting, especially as a guard tower is involved, and tower guards are not held back by locked gates, not even from inside houses. And I hate killing Freedom Tower Guards.

 

In fact, the highway rules were made to give a mayor the choice either to engage in PvP style quarrels, or enjoy the advantages of the highway system. Trolling players who are highway connected by KoS through alts seems abusive and exploiting to me, especially when the perpetrator holds highway connections himself.

 

A first step could be to ban KoS below a certain FS level (30 may be reasonable, but 20.1 would fend off the worst exploits). Next, at a one sided KoS it should be allowed to raid the offending deed like in PvP, be allowed to destroy structures, steal items and drain the token.

Edited by Ekcin
addendum
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I must say if you are being harassed please do log a support ticket for our GM team to mediate. 

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40 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

Next, at a one sided KoS it should be allowed to raid the offending deed like in PvP, be allowed to destroy structures, steal items and drain the token.

oh hell yes +1

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As person can't really do anything on deed even without being KoS'd, I find the idea of KoS on freedom weird. 

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1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

I must say if you are being harassed please do log a support ticket for our GM team to mediate. 

 

Retrograde, I do not want to involve the GM team with the childish misbehaviour of an immature, if I can ever avoid it. As to me, I am sticking to the rules, though I sometimes considered to repay in kind. And there is so much to do in Wurm, developing skills, rifts, uniques, impalongs, my alliance, I would glad if I would simply be left alone, without attempts to cut off my ways to Vrock Landing, to destroy the woods around me, and now that silly KoS (not the first time by alts of that "player"). So far I can widely ignore him, and collect evidence of his misdemeanor. Maybe I come back to filing a ticket if he further escalates his trolling.

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1 hour ago, Ekcin said:

 

Retrograde, I do not want to involve the GM team with the childish misbehaviour of an immature, if I can ever avoid it. As to me, I am sticking to the rules, though I sometimes considered to repay in kind. And there is so much to do in Wurm, developing skills, rifts, uniques, impalongs, my alliance, I would glad if I would simply be left alone, without attempts to cut off my ways to Vrock Landing, to destroy the woods around me, and now that silly KoS (not the first time by alts of that "player"). So far I can widely ignore him, and collect evidence of his misdemeanor. Maybe I come back to filing a ticket if he further escalates his trolling.

I do understand, but if someone is going out of their way to give you a negative experience, please let us know. 

 

This is a sandbox and there is a lot of freedom in that, but we do not tolerate those aiming to negatively impact others experience lightly 

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1 hour ago, nekoexmachina said:

As person can't really do anything on deed even without being KoS'd, I find the idea of KoS on freedom weird. 

 

Well, I consider KoS a basically nice concept inside a medieval setting, where mayors of a settlement are kind of kings of their area, and rivaling fiefs may have their quarrels and tiny wars. A KoS, if declared mutually, would be kind of a duel between deeds, or small size warfare. Properly done it could contain roleplay, drama, and entertainment for the whole community.

 

But that implies that KoS is more than throwing in some dirty money from a purchased account's player who does not participate in any community activity, planting a deed or more by a shitty freetoplay alt, and check the KoS box to troll a player who cannot or is unwilling to respond in kind.

 

Therefore the proposed limitations: 1. No KoS from non premed mayors 2. KoS should come with a price in form of a risk .

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I actually think Wurm could use a new playstyle.

Call it a feudal setting where deeds can KoS and make war on other deeds.

If a deed doesnt want to participate in PvP/KoS, it can adjust its settings for that.

Of course there needs to be a cooldown when changing the settings.

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1 hour ago, Ekcin said:

A KoS, if declared mutually, would be kind of a duel between deeds, or small size warfare.

KoS does literally nothing. Any account with decent fighting would not be harmed much by guards on deeds KoS'ing them. Nothing can be done if KoS is done purely for fun.

 

If anything would be changed, and KoS'd persons would be able to do something to the deeds where they are KoS'd, that would bring in a problem of thieving. Suppose this:

 

- You KoS account named nekoexthievina

- Said account has been talking to you rudely and you have the grounds to dislike them

- They come, kill your guards, drain your token and steal your rare forge

- Aparantely, they don't give a f about you so they don't declare you to be KoS on their deed

- Effectively, if you'd never care about said person being rude, things would've been better of for you.

 

Bingo, your stuff was stolen and - the worst part - you can't do *anything at all* for retribution.

 

 

 

Edited by nekoexmachina
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55 minutes ago, nekoexmachina said:

KoS does literally nothing. Any account with decent fighting would not be harmed much by guards on deeds KoS'ing them. Nothing can be done if KoS is done purely for fun.

KoS can be a serious harrassment. Even with an acceptable intermediate FS like mine (over 75, aggr over 50) 5 tower guards and a templar are at least something to be dealt with. If it is on a major non highway communication route, it makes driving e.g. a wagon at least fairly inconvenient. And I deeply dislike killing tower guards. There is no fun in, just molestation. You don't even gain fighting skill with.

Quote

If anything would be changed, and KoS'd persons would be able to do something to the deeds where they are KoS'd, that would bring in a problem of thieving. Suppose this:

- You KoS account named nekoexthievina

So it means you have to think before declaring KoS on somebody. When someone "talked rudely" you have the option to report it, when against the rules, or make it public when it is only contemptible.

Quote

- They come, kill your guards, drain your token and steal your rare forge 

- Aparantely, they don't give a f about you so they don't declare you to be KoS on their deed

- Effectively, if you'd never care about said person being rude, things would've been better of for you.

In other words, you run a risk when declaring KoS, especially against someone who cannot KoS back e.g. without losing highway rights. That is the sense of the proposal. Maybe one could limit KoS altogether to cases in which both parties declare KoS onto one another, so that single sided KoS were not possible at all.

Quote

Bingo, your stuff was stolen and - the worst part - you can't do *anything at all* for retribution.

And now? Some freetoplay alt you never talked to, rudely or not, unchecks the KoS box and type your name, and you cannot do anything about.

 

 

 

Edited by Ekcin
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- 1 

KOS is the only way to keep unwanted players away from the Deed.
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Intention and spirit of the KoS/highway mechanic is clearly that players using the highway system cannot use the KoS mechanic at the same time.

 

Using alts and multiple deeds to circumvent that limitation is against intention and spirit of the rule. I do not think that enabling the KoS mechanic should be gated by premium and/or fighting skill limits. Instead I'd suggest that the rules should clearly state that a player may not use alt characters and alt deeds on the same server to circumvent the intention of the KoS/highway rule.

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@Eobersig
But how would it be regulated if a player plays more Alts active and also has several deeds?

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Fill in a /support ticket... get that solved.. 

You shouldn't be having the bad experience daily.. just for using the road, it's you are snooping around that is another thing.. but if you just use the road in that section ..and you get the annoying kos message or being attacked by the guards/templars.. that should involve some GMs, ESPECIALLY if the nobrainer does this on a highway road.. that's a really good way to get a colorgang member in local telling what to not do..

 

As for this mutual kos and pvp between 2 villages here.. can't see any benefit .. other than kid's play pvp in safety.. cant see much point to do it.. if you are safe to do it with just 1 other person who also wants to do it..(makes no sense to me..).

 

Chaos is over there.. you can mine/fence yourself and bring horses for the fun time.. not to mention most kingdoms probably will welcome you and give you a warm hug dying for them in battle..

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7 minutes ago, Soonwaldler said:

@Eobersig
But how would it be regulated if a player plays more Alts active and also has several deeds?

 

In my opinion: First we need to clearly state the intention, then how we can inforce/regulate it. In most of these cases it's pretty clear that it's an alt character with an alt deed that is used to KoS.

 

My suggestion is that the rules should clearly state that a player that uses the highway system on a particular server may not use alt deeds on that same server to circumvent the intention of the rule. I believe that rule alone will prevent most of these cases.

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-1, this whole conversation is silly.  Is there such a thing as an alt-deed?   How do we know if the OP is not the harasser in this case or if they are equally harassing eachother?  If someone is paying monthly upkeep for space, just like the rest of us mayors do, they are entitled to KOS or participate in the highway as they see fit with any or every deed they choose to pay for.  Get over yourselves, we are playing a game remember.  There is so much space on all servers now there is no excuse to not find a better place to play if neighbors bother you so much. 

Edited by madnezz
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5 minutes ago, Eobersig said:

 

In my opinion: First we need to clearly state the intention, then how we can inforce/regulate it. In most of these cases it's pretty clear that it's an alt character with an alt deed that is used to KoS.

 

My suggestion is that the rules should clearly state that a player that uses the highway system on a particular server may not use alt deeds on that same server to circumvent the intention of the rule. I believe that rule alone will prevent most of these cases.

 

I fully agree that this suggestion is a sane and clean solution. It also fulfills the condition of putting a price on declaring KoS not just being a harrassment. Only a completely ignorant and incompetent player would assume that KoS could hold any determined and competent player away from a deed. Overcoming tower guards and spirit templars is not a really serious fight especially for a mounted player. In this case it is all about trolling, where evidence is collected about ongoing misdemeanor.

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1 minute ago, madnezz said:

Get over yourselves.  There is so much space on all servers now there is no excuse to find a better place to play if neighbors bother you so much. 

So one should move of his own place because some jerk is next to him nowadays. Right.

 

 

Never really cared for KoS myself, since there is a lot things one can do to harrass the jerk, staying in-game rules. Even in freedom. One could put several deeds around someone and put spirit templar on every deed and put KoS on the jerk that is harrassing. Have fun killing the guards... or just several templars on a deed next to him. 

 

but raiding the dude would be so much fun if he made KoS order on you. It should be allowed.

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11 minutes ago, madnezz said:

-1, this whole conversation is silly.  Is there such a thing as an alt-deed?   He's paying monthly upkeep for space just like the rest of us mayors do and he is entitled to KOS or participate in the highway as he sees fit with any or every deed he chooses.  Get over yourselves.  There is so much space on all servers now there is no excuse to not find a better place to play if neighbors bother you so much. 

If you find a way to bother somebody and damage their hp bar, gear and nerves irl.. that should be addressed IMO.

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We don't need blanket rule changes or dev changes to fix this, there are already several solutions to the problem:  move to another spot, bash the guard towers, re-route the highway, be adults and end the harassment/solve the differences. 

 

Think of it this way, by moving you effectively start the game over in a new space, you stimulate economy and potentially make new friends and neighbors.  Wurm doesnt have to lose more paying customers who are willing to buy more deeds to accomplish their goals.  Why would you want to stay some where hostile even without the KOS problem you supposedly have, just to prove a point you are more stubborn?  Seriously, get over yourselves.

Edited by madnezz
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hmmm if I read correct he aint follow the rules ?

KoS (Kill on Sight)
A ) Deeds retain the right to use the reputation system as needed, except when in violation of Highway rules.

 

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Or the OP is just unhappy an open space near his deed was deeded over and he no longer has access to it for free.

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The KoS mechanic should be removed on the PvE servers. This is just a workaround to grief other players "legally". Sure a number of players gleefully support it as they chuckle that others are bothered with it in a situation as described by the OP but remember that in that instance the Tower Guards are also being cleverly(?) used to assist in this without even the necessity of a Spirit Templar, much less 5 of them in number like Tower Guards. Tower Guards will also continue to chase the player once off deed and still within their attacking range.

 

The intent of KoS is to kill other players if possible, which is not allowed on the PvE servers. Yet they put a mechanic into the game to do just this. Very strange and the wrong approach to take on the PvE servers just to avoid GM time spent on intervention.

 

=Ayes=

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52 minutes ago, Ayes said:

The KoS mechanic should be removed on the PvE servers. This is just a workaround to grief other players "legally". Sure a number of players gleefully support it as they chuckle that others are bothered with it in a situation as described by the OP but remember that in that instance the Tower Guards are also being cleverly(?) used to assist in this without even the necessity of a Spirit Templar, much less 5 of them in number like Tower Guards. Tower Guards will also continue to chase the player once off deed and still within their attacking range.

 

The intent of KoS is to kill other players if possible, which is not allowed on the PvE servers. Yet they put a mechanic into the game to do just this. Very strange and the wrong approach to take on the PvE servers just to avoid GM time spent on intervention.

 

=Ayes=

 

KOS on freedom is to keep those that bother you off your deed and perimeter, dont get it twisted while you ride your hollow high horse again.

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36 minutes ago, madnezz said:

 

KOS on freedom is to keep those that bother you off your deed and perimeter, dont get it twisted while you ride your hollow high horse again.

This is but silly polemics. It is exactly not about "your deed" when the perpetrator is holding about or in excess of 11 deeds on the same server, and declares KoS even by more than one of his sockpuppets.

Edited by Ekcin

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