Explanation required: what is wrong with epic?

[nekoexmachina 172]

I keep reading some threads here and there and there seems to be a noisy group of people who keep whining about how bad is epic's current state. 

 

Except for whiners who are there just to keep up the white noise levels and trolls who are there to misinform people.. what exactly is actually wrong with epic?

 

I've ported there like a couple months back, and I'm having a blast. 

 

Even population ('too low bla bla') Is good enough to have a community (Vs 2 people per month in local on Xanadu, and that's I'm talking about good months, or 10 people grinding in caves on pristine)

 

Explain, pls.

[nekoexmachina 172]

P.s. I know opinion of people who play on epic. I'm interested to hear opinions of people who do not, and who think that there is something wrong with it.

[Locath 523]

One of the reasons, just like in my case, could be that some people have no interest in PvP at all. I have not set a foot on a PvP server yet and i'm not planning to. I enjoy the building/terraforming aspect of the game and that's all i want to do really. While it can be done on Epic as well, it can be destroyed by others which deters me from playing there. If it was just as low populated PvE cluster i would very likely migrate to it. 

I hear people saying that home servers are "practically" PvE but "practically" is not enough to convince me. 

Past that i don't know why people don't want to play there other than just the fact of low population so less customers and less suppliers, kind of a vicious circle i guess, an Ouroboros if you will.

[PWreset 66]

why would you hear of the opinion of people not playing on epic? all they could tell you is why they do not want to be on epic in general. And I think thats mostly the PvP aspect. Hardly ajkes sense for a new palyer going into any pvp environment without just beign a sandbag.

[nekoexmachina 172]

10 minutes ago, PWreset said:

all they could tell you is why they do not want to be on epic in general.

They (noisy group) generally do not play on epic for some reason and instead spend their time on chaos, trashing epic every now and then.

 

Some of them used to play epic before.

 

So.. interested to hear reasoning behind whining.

[Themystrix 376]

Because of the uncertainty of things in epic, why commit yourself into a cluster anymore when players has been waiting for years a clear answer from devs and they still kinda fails to do so. They havent planned anything for the epic in the future, thats one and big reason why they left epic when merge happened.

 

Why keep paying for dozen of deeds, keep tossing money on premium on a dead cluster, which is basically waiting for the kill switch or maybe not, but thats how majority of the group is feeling. They are longing to jump back to it, but because of uncertainty its not gonna happen. Oh and elevation is boringly FLAT as a pancake, that needs to change. Among few other things.

 

I dont say i know the true reasons behind it, i have heard quite bit of talk in regards of that and i havent really ever played on epic because for me it feels like waste of time.

 

ps, all the whining and reasons are in the forums, if you browse it. just follow the noisy ones.

[nekoexmachina 172]

6 minutes ago, Themystrix said:

Because of the uncertainty of things in epic, why commit yourself into a cluster anymore when players has been waiting for years a clear answer from devs and they still kinda fails to do so. They havent planned anything for the epic in the future, thats one and big reason why they left epic when merge happened. 

 

Why keep paying for dozen of deeds, keep tossing money on premium on a dead cluster, which is basically waiting for the kill switch or maybe not, but thats how majority of the group is feeling. They are longing to jump back to it, but because of uncertainty its not gonna happen. Oh and elevation is boringly FLAT as a pancake, that needs to change. Among few other things.

 

I dont say i know the true reasons behind it, i have heard quite bit of talk in regards of that and i havent really ever played on epic because for me it feels like waste of time.

 

ps, all the whining and reasons are in the forums, if you browse it. just follow the noisy ones.

 

 

I tried to follow the noisiest few. 99% of their post is about how cool is it on chaos, then 1% about how sucky epic is, with no reasoning.

 

 

On other things, I think that Rolf claimed that epic is not going down any time soon.

 

Also, I'd follow economical reasoning. Why shut down cluster on which people pay&play? Sure if you people will continue with be upset about things on forums, Epic might end in a trash bin because price of the server rent/maintenence would be well over what it generates. But if you get back and population is back up.. Then we have what? Sounds like a classic chicken & egg problem of course, but whining about things on forums doesn't halp with theese problems, does it?

 

I do not like to count money in someone else's pocket so would skip the math; but tldr is that cost of renting 4 servers is less then cost of paying for ~50ish premium accounts (and 50 accounts is maximum simultaneous online over last couple months, its reasonable to assume that there are more people paying for premium then people having premium toons online at a given moment of maximum visitation).

Edited April 30, 2019 by nekoexmachina

[Nathang 23]

I played Epic and was active there for a very very longtime. There' many reasons I'm no longer active there but here's a few:

 

Elevation map is flat and boring

Low pop / feels empty

It's actually depressing to ride around and visit long gone deeds / people

Changes to the skilling system

No challenge / sense of survival

No shared plans for Epic

 

Basically Epic was amazing in 2012/2013, it was thriving with life and action, 100+ on Elevation 200+ on Serenity but logging in now on Epic you cant help but remember those times and feel sad at what its become.

 

All boils down to perspective though as a new player you dont know or miss what you dont know i guess.

 

Anyways just thoughts from my perspective.

[nekoexmachina 172]

I don't know @Nathang

 

I have same reasoning for moving from freedom to epic - except for "no shared plans" (that is a part that bothers me the least; I know when I'm having fun and why I'm not having fun when it happens, plans for what is coming next is much, much less important).

 

I've been very active on Exodus some years back. Got back from unlimited a year ago.. Exodus is dead and empty, of people I've known only 1 still plays; of deeds I've known everything is ruined. I tried to run around Release & Pristine, then tried to go to Xanadu, where I placed my deed and eventually left WO because Xanadu is giant empty piece of ruined land. This year I got back, played a little bit on Xanadu, took a look at other servers and moved to Epic - where now I have a community of people that play AND populated local AND events that are not ran by few choosen ones. btw, to people who would say Indy - Indy is the other side of the coin - its overcrowded, which is bad as well.

 

That all depends on perspective, obviously.

 

[solmark 544]

As of right now only Indy and Xanadu have higher population, but it is split across the cluster so probably seems a lot less than others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by solmark

[Sindusk 2,447]

1 hour ago, Themystrix said:

Because of the uncertainty of things in epic, why commit yourself into a cluster anymore when players has been waiting for years a clear answer from devs and they still kinda fails to do so. They havent planned anything for the epic in the future, thats one and big reason why they left epic when merge happened.

I've never played on Epic, but this is what most players who are upset with the state of Epic state when asked what's wrong.

 

If a merge is planned to Freedom, why bother skilling on Epic? You'll just end up on Freedom anyways.

If a map reset is planned, why bother building deeds on the existing one?

If it's being closed, why do anything there at all?

 

Right now, players who are looking at Epic are just waiting for word as to what it's fate will be. Epic has had it's time in the past where it was an active PvP environment with lots of people. Will it return to that status, or will it change into something new?

 

Honestly, if there was official word that Epic was to remain untouched and remain the way it is for 5 years, people would probably feel a lot better about playing there. Unfortunately, there's been a situation where public statements claim that changes will occur... but due to the policy of the WO development team, they don't want to say anything "too soon" in fear of being bashed if it doesn't happen. Maybe one day it can be realized that no matter how hard you try or how well you do, you'll always be bashed for something, so they can work to satisfy their customers (the players) instead of protect their public image.

[nekoexmachina 172]

27 minutes ago, Sindusk said:

If it's being closed, why do anything there at all?

"It has been fun while it lasted".

 

Idk, its a game, not a life. If it closes I would probably be upset for a while because what I consider fun would be unavailable for me. But having fun while it is fun is more important then knowing that this fun would last forever (which it would not).

[Wargasm 1,926]

Elevation sucks.  It's so flat, and sow low to water level  that you can't build a decent stronghold in but a few select places.  The map needs to be reset.

 

But what point is a map reset if nobody plays there?  Nobody plays there because our skill gain and grinding efforts are meaningless.

 

Also, the PvP population has taken such a nose dive over the last 2 years, that few of us have the time or the will to populate deeds/kingdoms on both clusters.

[PWreset 66]

35 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

Elevation sucks.  It's so flat, and sow low to water level  that you can't build a decent stronghold in but a few select places.  The map needs to be reset.

 

But what point is a map reset if nobody plays there?  Nobody plays there because our skill gain and grinding efforts are meaningless.

 

Also, the PvP population has taken such a nose dive over the last 2 years, that few of us have the time or the will to populate deeds/kingdoms on both clusters.

 

what about epic even'ts a few volcanos that erupt and increase the height? Wsn't it said epic should have event's like that?

[Madnath 3,113]

30 minutes ago, nekoexmachina said:

"It has been fun while it lasted".

 

Let me explain to you why that statement only gets you so far.

 

We all know Wurm is a game of time and dedication. If you lack either, your only way of getting into Epic or any PvP server, would be by joining a pre existing group. That isn't such an issue for Chaos where you can just flat out join a PMK, but Epic at the moment seems to be more of a clique group depending on where you want to join. A lot of players don't like newbies just joining and hitching a mostly free ride. And if you try and make your own place and find out that the map is going to be reset later, you're left with a very sour taste. Why should your rare guard tower be gone? Why should your perfect lay of land, terraformed by you, be changed just because it's willed by others? Even worse, what happens if Epic as a cluster is just totally shut, due to it not being used enough to justify the end costs? All your skill gain, items, gone. It's been made clear there is no plans at all to bring items that are on Epic to Freedom due to the kind of issue you'd see the market become.  You'd see a huge spike of players returning, only to be selling off high grade loot at low prices to make a quick buck off the game they don't play anymore.

 

You've got so much anxiety around the Epic cluster too, due to poor maps that have been ravaged and a low player count. People don't want to go there because we just don't know a single damn thing that's planned for it. We see HoTA changes for places like Chaos in mind, but Epic? Nothing.

 

Chaos and Epic are both very exciting ideas to me. I'd love to try Chaos but the endless toxicity would drain on me, or I'd thrive on it. Epic I already have experience with and would love to go back, due to it being totally seperate from Freedom.

 

Word needs to come soon on the future of Epic. The longer it's just left to fester, the more the damage is already done. I must agree with Sindusk's statement, at this point it cannot at all be considered too soon to have word on the future of the cluster. Like you wouldn't wait for an urgent patch to roll out for a game breaking bug, why would we need to wait longer than we already have to know what's happening to an entire cluster?  And if the problem really is as small as you're trying to say, what's preventing a statement being made on it now? Why allow the general anxiety to build and build, as it already has?

[nekoexmachina 172]

9 hours ago, Madnath said:

We all know Wurm is a game of time and dedication. If you lack either, your only way of getting into Epic or any PvP server, would be by joining a pre existing group. That isn't such an issue for Chaos where you can just flat out join a PMK, but Epic at the moment seems to be more of a clique group depending on where you want to join. 

We do have a few newbies over last months, we have no problems with them. If other kingdoms do, its a problem with those other kingdoms, not with the cluster.

 

9 hours ago, Madnath said:

A lot of players don't like newbies just joining and hitching a mostly free ride.

I'm not rly sure what do you even mean by that.

 

9 hours ago, Madnath said:

. And if you try and make your own place and find out that the map is going to be reset later, you're left with a very sour taste.

true that.

 

9 hours ago, Madnath said:

Why should your rare guard tower be gone? Why should your perfect lay of land, terraformed by you, be changed just because it's willed by others?

Because your rare guard tower is an entry in a database that you do not happen to own. Sure your actions lead to a creation of said entry in a database. It doesn't mean you have created it or own it. Sure it would suck to see that gone. But it is NOT something you own. In fact, nothing in a game you could truly own.

 

9 hours ago, Madnath said:

It's been made clear there is no plans at all to bring items that are on Epic to Freedom due to the kind of issue you'd see the market become.

Just a remark: Market on freedom is a joke already if to compare it with what it was 3-4 years ago.

 

But yea, items should stay where they are without a move of them between clusters, and trade of virtual goods for real currency is dumb.

 

9 hours ago, Madnath said:

People don't want to go there because we just don't know a single damn thing that's planned for it.

I mean its kind of a thing about the whole development process here; you don't know where game is headed and published roadmaps are very, very inaccurate.

 

9 hours ago, Madnath said:

We see HoTA changes for places like Chaos in mind, but Epic?

im not big changelog reader, but armour changes were epic only, weren't they?

 

9 hours ago, Madnath said:

And if the problem really is as small as you're trying to say, what's preventing a statement being made on it now? Why allow the general anxiety to build and build, as it already has?

That just shows a difference between our world view, i guess.

 

Thanks for responses.

[Angelklaine 4,266]

If you found a brand new online game that had an uncertain future, do you think most people would join it knowing is not sure it would last? Would you pay for such a game? 

 

Would you pay 59.99 for a game that is not guaranteed will be available 6 months from mow? 

 

I think thats the problem. Most people are skeptical from playing there because they have no idea what will become of it. And as much fun as it could be, why play on the uncertain cluster if it may all be gone and leave you with nothing? Why not play on the cluster that has a better chance of making it?

 

Just a guess.

[Alexgopen 2,376]

It just ain't what it used to be.  

 

Most of what I once knew is dead and gone.  The majority of the population has left.  It's an empty wasteland reminding you of what it once was.

 

Combine the lack of playerbase with the large scale of the cluster and you're almost playing a singleplayer game.  

 

On 4/30/2019 at 4:01 PM, nekoexmachina said:

I've been very active on Exodus some years back. Got back from unlimited a year ago.. Exodus is dead and empty, of people I've known only 1 still plays; of deeds I've known everything is ruined. 

 

This is how those of us who played Epic back in the day see it now.

 

I sold my valuable items and extra accounts, gave away all my spare gear to the kingdom, and only held onto my epic crafter account and will never sell it, in the hope that maybe someday the game will be like it once was, but I don't actually think that will ever happen.