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Angelklaine

Devlog thread closed?

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10 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

Let's point out the REAL issue with 100 rifts, the one no-one here is going to mention.

 

You can't throw money at it, and it doesn't bring in any money.  You were all 100% fine with tome based goals because you could either buy the goal, or were the one selling the means to obtain the goal.  Tomes could take years if you didn't sink money into it, or join the hunter clique.

 

No one mentioning it because no one feels this way....?  I replaced most of the tomes I lost by not being allowed to have them transfer to freedom with my skills purely via personal goals.  12 tomes, with enough duplicates to make me pull my hair out because it meant keep going until I got what I wanted, and I didn't spend a dime on any goals.  All the work was done by you know, playing the game and putting forth the effort actually required.  Even with the money made from selling extras, I still didn't buy any missing tomes because I don't believe in buying pixel items that I can get by as I said, playing the game and putting in some effort.  I'd definitely still feel the same way about the journals even if we were allowed to buy the rewards to skip the grind.  Maybe you should look past wurm at other current games, you might find the incredible majority are mad at other games that allow you to buy items to skip very long grinds instead of making the grind more enjoyable/playable.

 

10 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

The real sad thing?  Not a one of you has even considered 100 rifts as a lever to push for better rift scheduling.

 

If your house is on fire because of your junk toaster, are you going to focus on the fact your house is on fire, or use the fire as a lever to push for getting a better toaster

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4 hours ago, Wonka said:

See, that's the thing: I'm pretty sure that most changes go to the test server before they go live, and the test server is in constant use for, y'know, testing upcoming changes.  They certainly did when I was last on it, which was admitedly some years back.  If you want to test stuff, talk to the head tester and get on with it - I'm sure she'd appreciate the help.  Stop whining and go do something.  Have you actually spoken to someone in authority and asked to help with testing and documentation?

 

It amazes me how many people keep on posting in these forums after they've stopped paying anything towards the game.  If you aren't having fun, then you absolutely shouldn't pay for the service, and for your own sanity, you should move on entirely and find something else to occupy your time.

 

Pretty sure and knowing are two very different states of knowledge.  Currently they only put bits and pieces of updates on the test server as opposed to what I am suggesting which is complete and total transparency with excellent documentation, extended testing of the entire update before anything goes live, giving incentives to players to do their best to break the update and report back on all of their findings no matter how trivial.  Since you admittedly don't really play that much, you might find it interesting that they have removed several players from the test server because they reported too many problems. There are several players that relish the thought of actively participating in the testing process and several more that would be enticed with sleep powder,titles, deco, clothing and other inexpensive goodies.  A comprehensive testing environment will vastly expand the communication divide we are witnessing now because the players that want to know will know exactly what is upcoming and how it works. 

 

1 hour ago, Ekcin said:

 

Have you ever designed test plans and set up a test environment in professional IT?

 

No, but I have participated in testing for a game with the same amount of staff so I know what is possible.  I also don't have expectations this can happen overnight, but since it would solve 2 major problems with Wurm, its a level of excellence that should be striven for.

Edited by madnezz
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7 hours ago, madnezz said:

You might be satisfied with failure but the majority of us are not.  ..

 

The majority of me is, widely. Ofc not always, and not with everything.

 

That said, who are "us"? I see commentors that left the game, at least for the time being. I see some I sometimes see ingame, more I never see there. Ok, they may be on Chaos or Epic where I am not respectively rarely.

 

In game I was often struck how few players read the forums altogether, much less even mulled to ever register or write. Certain ones here boasting e.g. "I always forget that English isn't always someone's first language, my apologies" in discussion will add to the abhorrence. I am a forum addict too, but do not forget that it is not typical.

 

Much of the comments here remind me less on players than an opposing faction eager to overthrow the "government", and most rants sound political to me. And no, I do not want the dictatorship of the commentariat. Better the devil you know.

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This whole 100 rifts thing begs the question: What about WU?  

 

Since Rifts don't officially exist in WU, are you telling me that people MUST mod their servers if they want to complete all journal tiers and get the cape? That is beyond ridiculous. I don't even know if there is a mod already that puts in Rifts, so server owners MUST edit the journal in the game files.

You seriously can't expect all server owners to start editing the game files?

 

That is unless it changes or gets removed, or WU gets rifts implemented. 

 

 

Edited by atazs
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5 hours ago, MrGARY said:

If your house is on fire because of your junk toaster, are you going to focus on the fact your house is on fire, or use the fire as a lever to push for getting a better toaster

 

No, you stop and think back to the days when you had to cook toast by burning a new house down every week.

 

The journal system is a massive improvement over the old goals system (which was garbage, RNG-broken-garbage).

 

See those imping goals on the list?  I'm either going to have to de-priest and re-grind my faith, or I am just not going to ever get them.  I've got a bigger issue with goals like that (content priests are blocked from), than goals that require hard work.

 

If you want every goal in the game, you're going to have to make some sacrifices, or, you know, cheese the system by having a friend's priest port you to the rifts and getting you one kill.

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On 5/9/2019 at 4:17 PM, MrGARY said:

The fact that taking 4-8 years to complete one goal of one tier of a journal is acceptable is a good joke though

You have a good point.

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9 hours ago, madnezz said:

Pretty sure and knowing are two very different states of knowledge.  Currently they only put bits and pieces of updates on the test server as opposed to what I am suggesting which is complete and total transparency with excellent documentation, extended testing of the entire update before anything goes live, giving incentives to players to do their best to break the update and report back on all of their findings no matter how trivial.  Since you admittedly don't really play that much, you might find it interesting that they have removed several players from the test server because they reported too many problems. There are several players that relish the thought of actively participating in the testing process and several more that would be enticed with sleep powder,titles, deco, clothing and other inexpensive goodies.  A comprehensive testing environment will vastly expand the communication divide we are witnessing now because the players that want to know will know exactly what is upcoming and how it works. 

 

All updates go on the test server, the bit you may be referring to is our larger chunks of features that go on public testing, such as siege weapons, Priests, and cooking, etc. 

 

When we do set those up, including providing incentives for testing, we wind up with on average 1 or 2 people popping in, fiddling around for 10 minutes then logging off. 

 

We've also rewarded many players who have reported bugs via there, including exploitable bugs reported, we've also given active players on there cornucopias for further testing and coordinated with them in testing things too.

 

We have never removed anyone for reporting too many problems. 

 

Now if you want titles and objects just for being on the test server transferred to live, it's not something we're currently looking at doing, but if you are active on the test server and contribute to bug reports and testing I can absolutely offer some sleep powders for that. 

 

Shoot me a PM about what you'd like to do and we can sort something out.

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1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

We have never removed anyone for reporting too many problems. 

 

No never for reporting problems only for being on the test server day after day during major changes and getting banned for being to active on it, my ban was not a recent one so im not saying the current staff actively do this but to say "we never" is wrong  rolf himself used to be the one handing out bans and telling people off if they spend too much time on the test server with his reason "the test server is for testing not for playing" when all we did was try out new features and to create the tools to do it ourselves as back then we where told no by gms that we would not get help
Several years later after all bans where undone as test was wiped clean and we tried to test upcoming changes that had been added once again we where given the same warning hence why those who are interested in testing and are long long time players do not bother really anymore until we have a proper testing environment that doesnt require us to spend ages to get stuff setup so that we can test things and does not require us to contact a staff member and wait possibly hours to get sorted out

Sure maybe if i was to start now i wont be told that after spending a long time testing things who knows but i doubt the group i used to test with would want to put in more time again only to be told off once again(we never minded the wipes) but hey if you can say that we will not be punished at all for spending a lot of time on test server and will be told when new things are added for testing(a simple "hey guys new things have been added for testing here is a short list without much detail enjoy") then sure thing il gladly go test things again

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Well that was long before my time, I'm aware of the "no living on the test server" guideline but if you choose to do so feel free. 

 

If you are interested feel free to pm me and I will organise something 

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Id still like an answer to my question regarding how completing 100 rifts will work on WU

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3 minutes ago, nitram20 said:

Id still like an answer to my question regarding how completing 100 rifts will work on WU

Do you have "slay each rift creature" in "Picking up speed" journal or has it been replaced? if it's been replaced 100 rifts most likely will be too

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2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

the "no living on the test server" guideline

 

 

I'm not really sure how you could expect people to find and report the higher-level problems with the game or overall mechanics (the ones dev's 90% of the time miss) when you tell someone they can only spend a certain amount of time there.

"Living" on a server isn't really defined under any specific terms, infact it's an abstract concept entirely, leaving the individual to discipline based off their own interpretation of this "rule". (if it can even loosely be described as such, since there are no specific terms)

What is Living on a server? Can you define this? Is this actually defined anywhere? (no) Is it making a house to store my things? Is it playing more than 8 hours a day? How can you enforce an abstract concept on your players?

 

Technically everyone who logs into that server is "living" there, if they are alive. You can't leave, nor do you take any of your skills with you from Freedom. I see not how someone playing on that server could be of consequence or inconvenience in any way shape or form to you. If anything you should be promoting this behavior as it is often the only way to ever experience the majority of bugs and oversights that actually plague this game. If someone spends a month building a nice shack, only to have it wiped, that was their choice to make that investment of time, and they should have known that upon logging into the test server. Put a disclaimer there if you have to.

 

Quote

If you are interested feel free to pm me and I will organise something 

 

Sorry but I really shouldn't have to organize some kind of event for this, nor should you. It shouldn't require any time from a GM or Dev for me to test, that's where you claim you lose out the most as developers right? On time. I should just be able to hop on and DO it, regardless of if a GM or Dev is online or not. This is another place you're bottlenecking yourselves into a pitfall.

Edited by whereami
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21 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

Try prayer grind without using epic to cheese it some time.

That then loops around to the exact previous issue I mentioned. Prayer grind I will accept to an extent because it's on your terms, you do it when you  , it's your time investment when you can invest it. You lose so much of the frustation you find with the rift goal just gone because the ball is actually in your court.

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6 hours ago, whereami said:

I'm not really sure how you could expect people to find and report the higher-level problems with the game or overall mechanics (the ones dev's 90% of the time miss) when you tell someone they can only spend a certain amount of time there.

"Living" on a server isn't really defined under any specific terms, infact it's an abstract concept entirely, leaving the individual to discipline based off their own interpretation of this "rule". (if it can even loosely be described as such, since there are no specific terms)

What is Living on a server? Can you define this? Is this actually defined anywhere? (no) Is it making a house to store my things? Is it playing more than 8 hours a day? How can you enforce an abstract concept on your players?

I've not been on the test server but I think it's a fairly simple answer. I'm assuming you don't need premium on the test server, and if there was no rule of not being allowed to live on the test server, why would we all pay to play the regular servers when we could just live on the test server?

 

It's been a thing on my mind since it got mentioned before in another thread, I believe it was. I really think the way test server is handled could be improved. If sleep powders are on the table on the live server, why not do some wave tests? Make an announcement in VI or in the Wurm stream, tell people the server will be up for maybe 5 hours, these are the new systems and how they're used. If you find any problems, file a bug report and if we can replicate and fix it, you'll get a sleep powder or two as a thank you. I appreciate we have a player already on test very often who does this of their own free time, but so often we see issues only popping up because they're on the wider test server. It always seemed strange nothing is ever mentioned about it.

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58 minutes ago, Madnath said:

why would we all pay to play the regular servers when we could just live on the test server?

 

Because the test server gets wiped regularly.  Because people would not have 100x100 deeds with 6-10 colossus on them and tons of material posessions.

 

But hey.... come to think of it.... this is a cure for all the people whining about wanting a new island with "fresh land" to play on.  Go ahead folks.... it's even FREE.  Just don't get pissed off when the devs wipe the server at their discretion because.... you know.... it is a TEST server after all.

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1 hour ago, Madnath said:

That then loops around to the exact previous issue I mentioned. Prayer grind I will accept to an extent because it's on your terms, you do it when you  , it's your time investment when you can invest it. You lose so much of the frustation you find with the rift goal just gone because the ball is actually in your court.

 

However, the rift goal involves pro-active play, whereas (so far) my prayer grind has been me pressing f every 20 seconds while reading a book.  For hours.

 

Hardly engaging play likely to retain players.  Compared to EVERY rift you attend taking you closer to a goal of some sort.

 

I suppose it really is just a different point of view on playstyle; I dislike enforced passive play, whereas you dislike time limited events.  Both mindsets exist in the player group and, so far, the diplomatic approach has been to make sure both have something to grumble over.  If they removed the prayer goal, I'd complain because, while I utterly hate it, I can see it for what it is, a tactic to inflate online player count.  If they removed the rift goal, I'd complain because it's a goal I would enjoy completing over a long period.

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On 5/10/2019 at 1:57 AM, Angelklaine said:

If only we had a community that was willing to give feedback and suggestions about things they would like to see...

 

 

We'd need moderators to start cracking down on the LOUD LOUD LOUD dozen or so that'll derail suggestion thread after thread because:

-  It vaguely reminds them of some other game.  (Instanced content for example)

-  Are uncomfortable with change and would like to see the game kept at 2006 code ("Now every time I pass over to Freedom, it's like I don't recognize the game anymore!!")

-  Want exclusivity/RMT privilege on certain items groups.

-  Etc.... to keep it uncontroversial-ish.

 

The suggestions' section can be quite an annoying experience to the point that it's way better to let the modders add it to WU instead.

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15 minutes ago, Mordraug said:

 

We'd need moderators to start cracking down on the LOUD LOUD LOUD dozen or so that'll derail suggestion thread after thread because:

-  It vaguely reminds them of some other game.  (Instanced content for example)

-  Are uncomfortable with change and would like to see the game kept at 2006 code ("Now every time I pass over to Freedom, it's like I don't recognize the game anymore!!")

-  Want exclusivity/RMT privilege on certain items groups.

-  Etc.... to keep it uncontroversial-ish.

 

The suggestions' section can be quite an annoying experience to the point that it's way better to let the modders add it to WU instead.

So are you saying there are no good suggestions there? Or that the Wurm staff doesn't read them because of the "loud dozen or so"?

 

Both arguments would be wrong btw.

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36 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

 

However, the rift goal involves pro-active play, whereas (so far) my prayer grind has been me pressing f every 20 seconds while reading a book.  For hours.

 

Hardly engaging play likely to retain players.  Compared to EVERY rift you attend taking you closer to a goal of some sort.

 

I suppose it really is just a different point of view on playstyle; I dislike enforced passive play, whereas you dislike time limited events.  Both mindsets exist in the player group and, so far, the diplomatic approach has been to make sure both have something to grumble over.  If they removed the prayer goal, I'd complain because, while I utterly hate it, I can see it for what it is, a tactic to inflate online player count.  If they removed the rift goal, I'd complain because it's a goal I would enjoy completing over a long period.

Yep, but that rift goal is out of the average players hands if it's not within a time zone. Remember the other point I made, and the parts I highlighted in my post you just quoted? We're back at that point again. You can spin this any way you like to complain about the prayer goal, I'm not saying your complaint is wrong even, I find 70 prayer to be a bit silly considering praying does essentially nothing but promote the AFK culture they "tried to remove" with the fishing update. And I'm not saying the rift goal is entirely bad, but 100 is just too extreme for your average player to actually hit at any point, even the so called "Wurm Elite" would rather nail their testicles to the ceiling than do it.

Edited by Madnath

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12 minutes ago, Madnath said:

Yep, but that rift goal is out of the average players hands if it's not within a time zone. Remember the other point I made, and the parts I highlighted in my post you just quoted? We're back at that point again. You can spin this any way you like to complain about the prayer goal, I'm not saying your complaint is wrong even, I find 70 prayer to be a bit silly considering praying does essentially nothing but promote the AFK culture they "tried to remove" with the fishing update. And I'm not saying the rift goal is entirely bad, but 100 is just too extreme for your average player to actually hit at any point, even the so called "Wurm Elite" would rather nail their testicles to the ceiling than do it.

*Goes get the ladder*

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1 hour ago, Angelklaine said:

So are you saying there are no good suggestions there? Or that the Wurm staff doesn't read them because of the "loud dozen or so"?

 

Both arguments would be wrong btw.

 

More like discourages posting in the first place.

 

Take rift schedule vs rl schedules..... some form of instancing or temporary servers kind of like Challenge may be the key but try mentioning that on a suggestion post.... the "i" word would lead to rage about this not being WoW, any mention of a new island will cause rage about what was it... "the market"?   You get the idea... 

Edited by Mordraug

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The concern with a new island isn't the market, quite the opposite, that's why people want a new island.  New islands are a bad idea because the population is thin enough as it is.  Especially lately.

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3 hours ago, Mordraug said:

 

More like discourages posting in the first place.

 

Take rift schedule vs rl schedules..... some form of instancing or temporary servers kind of like Challenge may be the key but try mentioning that on a suggestion post.... the "i" word would lead to rage about this not being WoW, any mention of a new island will cause rage about what was it... "the market"?   You get the idea... 

 

I think you're missing out on a large point of life. If you tell the world that you want to wipe your ass, there's 5 people that will yell at you for not using recycled TP.

Someone is always going to ######. It doesn't have to be your problem. What do you care if someone thousands of miles away gets angst-y on a forum?

I literally live for those types of reactions.

Edited by whereami

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5 hours ago, Madnath said:

"Wurm Elite"

noun

1.  A mentally disturbed individual who not only regularly nails their balls to a ceiling, but also does it with a low quality spoon for the skillgain.

...

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Pretty sure this can't be derailed further, can we close it than?

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