Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) All of the dereliction of communication about upcoming features and roadmaps can be soooooo easily solved if they would only build a robust, well documented testing environment where players are incentivised to participate thereby solving two of the biggest problems plaguing this game. We would know what is being tested and that things will be tested, what has failed and wont be added, what will take more time and why. So many questions answered and those answers will most likely be accepted by a patient community that knows progress is being made because they can see it for themselves. We are fed up with the smoke screen of surprise additions to the game that allow concealed development schedules and unnecessary opacity because stuff isn't getting done for whatever reason. The same reason the rules of this game are so malleable, so we never really know where we stand, what is an exploit that is punishable and what is fine as long as friendly people are doing it. Judging by some of the comments and commenters, we are beginning to see a boiled down playerbase that is as passionate about the game as they are frustrated by the way things are being handled. After this group of players is decimated there will be not much left to tolerate the inadequacies. It is far beyond time to add new development blood of Sindusk's ilk that put the happiness of customers playing the game over adhering to some secret doctrine of the Wurmdeveloper Online "team." You have our attention, you have our commerce, you have our patience but these assets are quickly depleting. It's time to shake things up internally and get things done transparently going forward. Edited May 10, 2019 by madnezz 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 6 hours ago, MrGARY said: when I want to, when I'm able to, and when I can enjoy it on my own terms. Can't strees enough how i think that this is general flow of Wurm that is ofputting for a lot of players. Open world is fine and dandy but when you can't participate in a lot of things as much as you want because you play 2 hours a day at specific time because you know you have life, job, family it kinda sucks a lot. If Wurm wants more subscriptions it should work forward fixing this imho 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 2 hours ago, madnezz said: All of the .. can be soooooo easily solved if they would only .. For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. H. L. Mencken Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 5 hours ago, Retrograde said: This isn't about hitting the end goal, it's about giving ideas for a journey, if you are approaching this with a mindset of doing it all as fast as possible you are going to struggle with the limited stuff. I see the same people upset about the rite spell as well, and I will point out we did adjust it, just like we can do with this and will do if necessary. If only we had a community that was willing to give feedback and suggestions about things they would like to see... 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 2 hours ago, madnezz said: Judging by some of the comments and commenters, we are beginning to see a boiled down playerbase that is as passionate about the game as they are frustrated by the way things are being handled. After this group of players is decimated there will be not much left to tolerate the inadequacies. I am hoping you are wrong here in stating that these "passionate" commenters with their "frustrations" continually expressed are not the true indication of the present and future success of the game. I sincerely doubt that this is the case and that many more who are mostly satisfied with what the game offers are really the heart of the game's core and the potential for its future. I would imagine too that it really takes some impressive strength within the core of the Development team to withstand this continual assault on their efforts to perpetuate and improve the game. I find that the game evolves over time while the enjoyment it provides sustains and supports new features that *may* be added in the future. Never has it been promised that players should state how they want the game to develop and proceed and it will be accomplished. I think that *some* players have been mistaken thinking that they are the consultants upon which future efforts will be centered. It is not as one player put it a McDonalds where you can order up the game just as you would want it to be. Contrary to the dissenting opinions here I am overall well satisfied with how the game has been improved over the years, possibly because I can accept the game for what it is and have no compelling desire to reshape it into what I think it should be. I am quite amazed that Rolf has kept this quaint little part of the internet universe alive for all these years. Reflect upon how that has happened and perhaps you may realize that there are more than a few things that transpired behind the scenes that you are unaware of. Not that I know anything about that either but I realize that there is more to it all than meets our veiled eyes (and will continue to be). Is it all just a fluke? Is success relative to those who observe it? I find little within this thread that encourages me to believe that *some* will ever be satisfied with what tomorrow brings. Sad really, for them anyway... =Ayes= 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, Finnn said: MAD-D! You're ON POINT TODAY! --edit Give people doable challenge to chase - they'll do it.. proven with 6350 repairs, ql99imp(meh with the mallet cheese), wine and the other random go-do-on-epic goals... for priests etc... Yes. I hated the wine goal, esp. the short deadline, but it could be done. 99 imp, easy for you who are out here since years, not for normal players who joined a year or so ago (even not for crazily committed ones). Quote But 100 rifts... GOOD ***** luck chasing something you barely got to do once every 2-4 IRL months. 'RAIDS" are cool... but 2-3hour raid.. and ******* 1-2hours traveling to the other server's event - sucks. No part of that is fun or reasonable to do... Well. When it is important for you, why not more player communication and interaction? It is a cooperative thing. Yet I always, with few exception, miss nearly every time any rift announcement outside Xanadu and, at least here and then, Independence. That though rifts on the small servers are most times easy to reach. If rifts are important for you, it would not be impossible to sail over, sleep at the site til rift starts, do it, log off, sail home when time again. Yes, I know well the challenges of RL, job, family, incoming customer calls, friends stepping at your door, in particular in the middle of a heated battle. How the damn should the game provide for? And why then not reporting every rift in the forums? For a time I scouted every upcoming rift the days before, got a bit tired about tbh. But the time spent on is not killing you. And I am speaking as a Xanadian in G13 who has to sail 6 tiles before hitting a server border. Granted, sometimes it sucks. But saying "I cannot do more than one rift a month" is simply hard to swallow. If the rifts are not that important, forget it. There are a lot of other things. I can tell you that I start to hate the commentariat of this thread, arrogant long time players who think they know everything, and their ways are the right ways. The kind of people who say "we all have abundance of tomes". Oh yea. Edited May 10, 2019 by Ekcin typo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 i love wurm online, wurm online is so fun, i would die for wurm online. please give me glocks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 Let's point out the REAL issue with 100 rifts, the one no-one here is going to mention. You can't throw money at it, and it doesn't bring in any money. You were all 100% fine with tome based goals because you could either buy the goal, or were the one selling the means to obtain the goal. Tomes could take years if you didn't sink money into it, or join the hunter clique. The real sad thing? Not a one of you has even considered 100 rifts as a lever to push for better rift scheduling. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 100 rifts means u gotta keep paying subscription fees for a long time to get it :^) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 On 5/5/2019 at 5:20 PM, Nappy said: Agreed. Let's see, what would be reasonable? We only started asking for a plan about two years ago. I think there was another group asking a year or two before that. Perhaps if we give them another five years they might feel inclined to share? Deso v3 best pvp server of all time and didn't even take a decade to make Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 @EkcinI'm not that skilled, but 500,000 actions.. easy.. I'm not even woa mining.. but for 2-3 years.. that's not that big of a deal doing woa actions.. AS for new players.. offer to chop somebody's veggies.. if your cooking doesnt suck.. and you can boost the favor of the crops.. you'll be allowed to do good for both of you. Alternatively.. get some mining skill up and grind some veins with a woa pickaxe... you now NEED to kill 25 veins for the luls/another journal goal/, I've only killed 2 veins.. I think which didn't seem to record in journal progress at all. Nobody whines about the doable tasks, it's something you CAN work toward.. Rifts are undoable(as they are, for most players).. also NOT that fun or rewarding to bring people to them.. there's a reason in past years you only get 6-20 people in the participation list, and some of them are even alts or Rift Cheesus priests with LT cast - quintipling(5x) the loot points of anything normally possible. How's that for fair 'advantage'? Cooking.. NOBODY likes cooking, "the 5 that lie they do - lie about it.. it's a fact"... even if there is a small population that actually likes doing this.. it's REALLY POINTLESS to do.. it's a hobby content that is now forced on everybody playing to experience in it's fulliest uglyness of it.. NOBODY complains about this - it's doable, it sucks.. but people can and will do it. Part that eludes you is the fine print where people just ask to get things to a sane crazy level(doable goals) All I care to have is fair chance, with rifts I can't go to most... if your reasoning is that I can torture myself and spend 1 day going to random server and ditch my ONE character there.. to just wait for a stupid rift to do on next day... that is not the game I want to play. I'd like to do the journal goals.. but that is in no way anything fun I'm looking toward. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Finnn said: @EkcinI'm not that skilled, but 500,000 actions.. easy.. Yes. If the Stats[F4] tell me correctly, I am at 1182326, should be feasible. Quote AS for new players.. offer to chop somebody's veggies.. could be a good idea in case .. Quote you now NEED to kill 25 veins for the luls/another journal goal/, I've only killed 2 veins.. I think I am at 4 or 5 so far, but in my deed's mine alone other 19 waiting. Just need to get the time for. Quote Rifts are undoable(as they are, for most players).. also NOT that fun or rewarding to bring people to them.. there's a reason in past years you only get 6-20 people in the participation list, and some of them are even alts or Rift Cheesus priests with LT cast - quintipling(5x) the loot points of anything normally possible. How's that for fair 'advantage'? It took me nearly a year to go to my first rift, mainly I was somewhat abhorred by the horror stories, but I have enjoyed nearly every single one. Ok there were a few with inept players pulling crowds of mobs onto the fighting crew, there was poor leadership sometimes. That is not about rifts, it is about players. Most I loved was a rift on Exo where we started with 5 players (I thought us doomed ) at the end there were 9 or 10, that one was hard and tricky but made all participants proud. Quote Cooking.. NOBODY likes cooking, .. Maybe. I do not hate it either, and can do it to the extent necessary. Just like in RL. Quote All I care to have is fair chance, with rifts I can't go to most... if your reasoning is that I can torture myself and spend 1 day going to random server and ditch my ONE character there.. to just wait for a stupid rift to do on next day... that is not the game I want to play. Well then, what is the point of not finishing that goal? I have an ally member who is on since at least 9 to 11 yrs (have to ask how many in fact) and has not even accomplished most of the basic ones just as they do not fit his playstyle. Quote I'd like to do the journal goals.. but that is in no way anything fun I'm looking toward. Well, If I would have had the 99ql imping goal, I would have scrapped the then personal goals altogether without regrets. I cannot solo a dragon as well. Can't even locate one atm Edited May 10, 2019 by Ekcin addendum Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 5 hours ago, Retrograde said: Which is a possibility and I will raise this for discussion, there's a few ideas floating around, once we nail one we'll share it and discuss how it could work This, this is exactly what i mean and this is what we are asking for. This is what needs to start happening. I'm not saying that we (players) should tell the staff what they should do and what mechanics or features "have to be implemented, or else". We do want to know what's in the pipeline however and maybe get a chance to comment on those. You have a 20-30 people strong army of people with ideas in this post alone. Use them. I think it's clear that this topic is being discussed by pretty much all of us with a lot of thought and in a civilized manner. Yes, sometimes we can get all the personal grievances behind and unite if the subject matter is important to us. In this case it clearly is. "What if we announce something we want to start working on and people bash the idea from the beginning?" - any idea will have nay-sayers. We are all(?) adults here and i'm sure everyone can handle a bit of criticism but if a lot of people say that the idea is bad, maybe it actually is? Even if you, as a team, decide to go ahead with it, you will know how it will be received. Or reconsider? This is something i noticed over the years, the "it's my idea and i made it happen and it's too late so you can whine all you want" attitude. first and foremost, not all ideas are good. Second, instead of going straight to defense mode, rethink it, discuss it, don't be afraid to scrap it. You (as a team or as a person) won't lose any credibility or respect if "your" idea isn't liked and in the end, it's your call if you should proceed with implementing it or not and in what form but don't base that decision purely on "they don't like my idea? i'll show them who's driving this wagon!" which to me is the only reason for the fear of sharing what is planned for us. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Angelklaine said: need to make rifts more accessible to people. I am lucky if I get to do 1 or 2 rifts a month, and thats with Arakiel hounding me to adjust my schedule to do them. The issue with rifts is timing: I have to go to a rift at a specified time on a specified server. If I'm asleep I can't go. If I am at work, I can't go. So on average I have a 4--5 hour window each day when I can attend, which requires me to hound Niarja and pray it happens then. And then it may happen at hour 4 of my playtimes (like yesterday) and I can't go. Or it happens at the same moment my wife needs me to do something, or at the hour my kids go to bed. I understand you are trying to encourage participation, but is not that people don't want to go, its just people can't. Change thay, and people will go more often. @Etherdrifter Nope. No one has. Edited May 10, 2019 by Angelklaine Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 Let alone Rifts during weekdays which most easily fall into any working adults day job schedule. Or in the middle of the night... I think if Rifts were constrained to appear during weekends only it'd already help a lot, even if they still shifted around (that wouldn't be too bad as they'd serve different timezones then) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 Just wait a year, and they will turn all journal goals to "enter the server" for master challenge, like they did with personal goals. No worry. Yet most likely, there will be still some people who would complain. "Why the hell I have to login to receive reward. It's not my way!! Staaap it now!" Things never really change. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Ayes said: I am hoping you are wrong here in stating that these "passionate" commenters with their "frustrations" continually expressed are not the true indication of the present and future success of the game. I sincerely doubt that this is the case and that many more who are mostly satisfied with what the game offers are really the heart of the game's core and the potential for its future. I would imagine too that it really takes some impressive strength within the core of the Development team to withstand this continual assault on their efforts to perpetuate and improve the game. I find that the game evolves over time while the enjoyment it provides sustains and supports new features that *may* be added in the future. Never has it been promised that players should state how they want the game to develop and proceed and it will be accomplished. I think that *some* players have been mistaken thinking that they are the consultants upon which future efforts will be centered. It is not as one player put it a McDonalds where you can order up the game just as you would want it to be. Contrary to the dissenting opinions here I am overall well satisfied with how the game has been improved over the years, possibly because I can accept the game for what it is and have no compelling desire to reshape it into what I think it should be. I am quite amazed that Rolf has kept this quaint little part of the internet universe alive for all these years. Reflect upon how that has happened and perhaps you may realize that there are more than a few things that transpired behind the scenes that you are unaware of. Not that I know anything about that either but I realize that there is more to it all than meets our veiled eyes (and will continue to be). Is it all just a fluke? Is success relative to those who observe it? I find little within this thread that encourages me to believe that *some* will ever be satisfied with what tomorrow brings. Sad really, for them anyway... =Ayes= You might be satisfied with failure but the majority of us are not. Going from 6.5k active accounts, around when I first started playing Wurm, to under 2k is failure. Thats a ~60% loss of paying players in an age where games within the genre entertain tens of millions. I have personally watched over 200 active accounts with several deeds vanish because of policies and changes made within this time period. How can you be satisfied with -60%? We know things can be done better if those in charge choose to do so or will allow those that can. We should not be satisfied until we have over 10k active premium accounts. That kind of population solves the majority of problems in pvp and the economy that people post about so regularly. Granted there will be new problems but those problems can be easily solved with the increased revenue. I remain hopeful that the right changes will be made to get us there, eventually. 5 hours ago, Ekcin said: For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. H. L. Mencken Please explain why you are against a testing environment where all upcoming changes are transparently discussed and tested by the community. Edited May 10, 2019 by madnezz 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 Pretty sure there's a test server, where upcoming stuff is, y'know, available to test. It's been a while since I last logged onto it, tho - lots of people moaning about lack of testing, but I don't see anyone volunteering to help. I think Alectrys is in charge of testing, and I'm sure if you'd like to help, you could talk to her and she'd get you set up on test. Last time I had a poke around in there, the only stuff that wasn't on the test server was stuff the devs were still implementing. Certainly stuff changed a lot, and the server seemed to go up and down like a yoyo. Easy to whine about how the people in charge are doing it wrong, or point out what they should be doing different, harder to actually give some time and effort to effect change. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Wonka said: Pretty sure there's a test server, where upcoming stuff is, y'know, available to test. It's been a while since I last logged onto it, tho - lots of people moaning about lack of testing, but I don't see anyone volunteering to help. I think Alectrys is in charge of testing, and I'm sure if you'd like to help, you could talk to her and she'd get you set up on test. Last time I had a poke around in there, the only stuff that wasn't on the test server was stuff the devs were still implementing. Certainly stuff changed a lot, and the server seemed to go up and down like a yoyo. I am not referring to the anemic testing server currently in sporadic use. I am suggesting a testing culture where any and every change is thoroughly documented and tested by players before content goes live. 7 minutes ago, Wonka said: Easy to whine about how the people in charge are doing it wrong, or point out what they should be doing different, harder to actually give some time and effort to effect change. Just as easy as it was for ~4500 unreplaced accounts to stop paying premium because they no longer enjoyed the entertainment provided here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) See, that's the thing: I'm pretty sure that most changes go to the test server before they go live, and the test server is in constant use for, y'know, testing upcoming changes. They certainly did when I was last on it, which was admitedly some years back. If you want to test stuff, talk to the head tester and get on with it - I'm sure she'd appreciate the help. Stop whining and go do something. Have you actually spoken to someone in authority and asked to help with testing and documentation? It amazes me how many people keep on posting in these forums after they've stopped paying anything towards the game. If you aren't having fun, then you absolutely shouldn't pay for the service, and for your own sanity, you should move on entirely and find something else to occupy your time. Edited May 10, 2019 by Wonka Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 7 hours ago, Etherdrifter said: The real sad thing? Not a one of you has even considered 100 rifts as a lever to push for better rift scheduling. Because rifts are boring. Simple. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 7 hours ago, Angelklaine said: @Etherdrifter Nope. No one has. I stand corrected XD 1 hour ago, Madnath said: Because rifts are boring. Simple. Try prayer grind without using epic to cheese it some time. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 46 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said: Try prayer grind without using epic to cheese it some time. Easy, just champ up in chaos. lmao Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 5 hours ago, madnezz said: Please explain why you are against a testing environment where all upcoming changes are transparently discussed and tested by the community. Have you ever designed test plans and set up a test environment in professional IT? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 10, 2019 14 minutes ago, Themystrix said: Easy, just champ up in chaos. lmao Sorry, I should have mentioned "also without using broken PvP mechanics that keep blocking PvE balance" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
