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Noevi

Chaos Freedom Portal

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Chaos seems to be moving quite slowly, and I've been thinking of ways to increase participation in the games opt-in PvP server.

One such thought was a chaos <-> freedom portal.
Obviously such a portal could be abused in certain ways so I've come up with a few restrictions that might make it a bit less abusable.
 

  • Can only build 1 per kingdom, and can not be moved easily, might even be a toggle for your "capital" to teleport to its token that can be changed every six months simillar to the name. (to prevent hopping back and forth to freedom to instant-defend a remote deed).
  • Can not bring any items through, you'd have to leave your freedom gear in freedom and vice versa, or sail it as normal(This feature should not be used for trading or safely shipping items).
  • Possibly a cooldown when coming from freedom to chaos(more 1 hour than 1 day) before being able to go back again to prevent using the feature for scouting.
  • Can not be used unless you've been in a kingdom for a set amount of time(2 weeks?), this means you must sail there the first time. (If preventing mercenaries is desired, however I think that's just a sandbox feature).


The idea is to lower the barrier of entry for freedom players to participate in PvP, and to enable players that want to do both to participate in PvP more often on weekdays and when limited on time.

Few issues that spring to mind:
Can hire a group of freedomers as mercs and bring in to attack/defend (provided you equip them, since they can't bring gear), however this seems more like a sandbox element than a problem.
 

Good evening

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+1 

 

 

Edited by Loink

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Just now, Gladiator said:

no

Care to develop further?

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This epitomises the problem currently plaguing the PvP aspect of this game, the fact you can hop to PvE in 100% safety, until both are separated  totally there will always be a decline. 

 

The challenge server was definitive proof (round one at least) that Wurm PvP is (was) a successful concept at a relatively fast skilling and re-settable pace.

 

Chaos is boring, the meta sucks arse and nu-Epic IS a colossal failure that has not been remedied since the radical changes were implemented. Despite that, not all changes were even that bad (armour modifications),

and it instead got left to rot out in the open for all to witness.

 

-1

Edited by Firecat
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4 minutes ago, Firecat said:

This epitomises the problem currently plaguing the PvP aspect of this game, the fact you can hop to PvE in 100% safety, until both are separated  totally there will always be a decline. 

 

The challenge server was definitive proof (round one at least) that Wurm PvP is (was) a successful concept at a relatively fast skilling and re-settable pace

 

-1

 

-- Oh and epic doesn't count because they basically ripped open it's neck and left it to die.

 

I think there's a point to this but I'm not entirely sure that it is directly related. Chaos is a part of the freedom cluster, cutting it off from the freedom cluster completely is a complete change in direction from how it has been working for quite some time now, if the vision for chaos is opt-in PvP, which is what it is doing currently, it seems likely that a change like that is more suited for the epic cluster which is already cut off.

In what way would it harm the current Chaos experience if people could participate without spending an hour sailing there?

 

Based on your edit I see that your problem is with the Chaos server not so much the suggestion for how to improve it. Carry on.

Edited by Noevi
<.<

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Your change is basically trying to fit a square peg into a circular hole, it will not work, it HAS NOT worked.

What you are suggesting is actually what epic currently is - without the timers to portal over. Look at how great that turned out right?

 

I also revised my previous argument to make more sense grammatically.

Edited by Firecat

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Just now, Firecat said:

Your change is basically trying to fit a square peg into a circular hole, it will not work, what you suggest is actually what epic currently is - without the timers you suggest. Look at how great that turned out right?

 

It differs quite heaviliy in that it allows people to play on the server where they can bring their progress back and forth, and bring items between their main server(which I guess freedom is for most players), items however need to be brought via sailing.
The idea is to lower the friction for going over for a quick pvp skirmish, contesting the HotA, going for a weekend to do a siege, then going back to freedom with the same character and carry on planting flowers.
I can only speak for myself but epic is completely irrelevant for me since it means playing in an environment that is sealed off from friends I have on freedom that refuse to play on PvP.
I did however join chaos because I can play with both my new found kingdom friends, as well as my good ol' carebear friends :)

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10 minutes ago, Noevi said:

bring their progress back and forth,

Ok so Freedomers were allowed to keep skilling on freedom and have their statistics transferred to epic, however it is not the same the other way around, and we actually got nerfed on stats that were not even related to being a 2x skill.

 

10 minutes ago, Noevi said:

lower the friction for going over for a quick pvp skirmish, contesting the HotA, going for a weekend to do a siege, then going back to freedom with the same character and carry on planting flowers.

This sums up how little you know about PvP, what you are suggesting does not change anything. The current way epic sits in wurm was designed for freedomers to do the things you describe. Explain how it has been successful? the way you think that PvP works on chaos is miles from what you imagine sadly :(

 

10 minutes ago, Noevi said:

I can only speak for myself but epic is completely irrelevant for me since it means playing in an environment that is sealed off from friends I have on freedom that refuse to play on PvP.
I

You just proved my point, why would they want to play on chaos where it is worse for you and your "friends" epic is only sealed off items wise, outside of that you keep your stats you grind from freedom and can keep grinding there too in safety and transfer over? 

 

Getting in to PvP right now is just asking to be dissapointed, sorry to burst your bubble, however what you choose to do in-game is totally your perogative, enjoy.

 

 

Edited by Firecat

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10 minutes ago, Firecat said:

Ok so Freedomers were allowed to keep skilling on freedom and have their statistics transferred to epic, however it is not the same the other way around, and we actually got nerfed on stats that were not even related to being a 2x skill.

You can't bring progress back from epic, only from freedom to epic, the transfer window is closed and was a temporary thing allowed as far as I know.

 

 

10 minutes ago, Firecat said:

This sums up how little you know about PvP, what you are suggesting does not change anything. The current way epic sits in wurm was designed for freedomers to do the things you describe. Explain how it has been successful? 

Ad hominem arguments are pointless, my level of knowledge has nothing to do with the validity of the suggestion. Epic does not provide the same thing as you can not bring progress back from it, neither materials nor skills.
Freedom has been the main meat of this game for the longest time because most players are not interested in PvP. Epic is telling freedomers to leave everything behind and continue without being able to bring that progress back if they change their mind.

 

 

10 minutes ago, Firecat said:

You just proved my point, why would they want to play on chaos where it is worse for you and your "friends" epic is only sealed off items wise, outside of that you keep your stats you grind from freedom and can keep grinding there too in safety and transfer over lol

I proved your point by saying that people who have pve friends can still want to play on a pvp server from time to time? I still like to keep skills from building deeds, going out hunting with kingdom, affinities gained from kills etc. Hell I even grinded my fletching on Chaos.

Edited by Noevi

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2 minutes ago, platinumteef said:

-1

Care to develop further? I'd like to understand the situation a bit better.

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12 minutes ago, Noevi said:

Care to develop further? I'd like to understand the situation a bit better.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing a portal with a 48 month cooldown per character, but an indefinite number of uses with little cooldown so people can main on freedom and port over to defend deeds that im raiding without them having to put in time investment/risk in getting there and not enhancing my gameplay because they don't main on Chaos is a -1 because theres more gameplay to chaos than being a warm body porting over to defend deeds or do predetermined pvp events like hota and no i dont care if you think people dipping their toes into chaos by porting over is going to get them to main there because it wont work i dont care what vast experience you have in gaming or wurm or pvp or chaos or freedom or portal crafting sorry but this conversation will bear no fruit this suggestion will eternally be a -1 from me but i wrote this so you can attempt to deconstruct my -1 and feel good about your suggestion have fun reading this without dying of brain disease also there is a hidden message in this post somewhere if you look closely just remember you were the one that wanted me to develop further

 

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17 minutes ago, platinumteef said:

 

I wouldn't mind seeing a portal with a 48 month cooldown per character, but an indefinite number of uses with little cooldown so people can main on freedom and port over to defend deeds that im raiding without them having to put in time investment/risk in getting there and not enhancing my gameplay because they don't main on Chaos is a -1 because theres more gameplay to chaos than being a warm body porting over to defend deeds or do predetermined pvp events like hota and no i dont care if you think people dipping their toes into chaos by porting over is going to get them to main there because it wont work i dont care what vast experience you have in gaming or wurm or pvp or chaos or freedom or portal crafting sorry but this conversation will bear no fruit this suggestion will eternally be a -1 from me but i wrote this so you can attempt to deconstruct my -1 and feel good about your suggestion have fun reading this without dying of brain disease also there is a hidden message in this post somewhere if you look closely just remember you were the one that wanted me to develop further

 

I see your point about the low commitment but being able to come in to defend deeds that are being raided, and I did think about that when coming up with the suggestion.


I think there are ways it can be modified to allow it to fill its intended purpose(increase participation) without it just being a cheesy way to instant-defend deeds, one attempt att helping that issue was to prevent it from being any other deed than your "capital". I think having a longer cooldown would effectively prevent the issue but it would also not solve the same thing the suggestion is trying to solve(reduced friction and barrier of entry).

Perhaps there are other ways either by modifying this suggestion, or another one, that we can make it more appealing for those that are on the fence on freedom to try out the PvP server?


There is no reason to be so defensive, you have a valid point and it's good enough to state that, no reason for the rest of the attitude or whatever it is, it just makes you look insecure about your criticism.

Edit:

Feel I should add also that I ask for further development so that I can understand problems with the suggestion that might be apparent to others but not to myself, not so that I can sit here and feel good about myself arguing with complete strangers.

Edited by Noevi
Edited for niceness

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1 hour ago, platinumteef said:

 

I wouldn't mind seeing a portal with a 48 month cooldown per character, but an indefinite number of uses with little cooldown so people can main on freedom and port over to defend deeds that im raiding without them having to put in time investment/risk in getting there and not enhancing my gameplay because they don't main on Chaos is a -1 because theres more gameplay to chaos than being a warm body porting over to defend deeds or do predetermined pvp events like hota and no i dont care if you think people dipping their toes into chaos by porting over is going to get them to main there because it wont work i dont care what vast experience you have in gaming or wurm or pvp or chaos or freedom or portal crafting sorry but this conversation will bear no fruit this suggestion will eternally be a -1 from me but i wrote this so you can attempt to deconstruct my -1 and feel good about your suggestion have fun reading this without dying of brain disease also there is a hidden message in this post somewhere if you look closely just remember you were the one that wanted me to develop further

 

Every time this idea has been brought up before this is all people say lol, you don't have to bash the whole idea down when there's such a simple fix to it. Because if it can be coded then the idea of disallowing crosses when enemies are in local, can be implemented. Also he did suggest that you can only spawn at the capital and it can't be moved besides every 6 months. And to the issue of "All TC deeds are close to eachother so it wont matter" it can also be implemented that when a certain amount of enemy players enter any deed of that kingdom, the portal will also lock for the opposite kingdom so that they cannot abuse and send 10 people over from cele where they can spawn in capital grab gear from a chest, tame a horse and run off to the deed to defend. There easy fix to your problem,

 OH BUT WAIT, THERES MORE!

 

Implement a delay before Hota, and Battlecamps say 5 hours? Before and 3 hours after. Then it opens up again. Doesn't apply for uniques because those aren't usually found right away anyway. Easier to find battlecamp than to find a dragon. You guys literally bash down freedomers opinions for no reason. So far no one here has been able to make a valid counterclaim to Morde's suggestion.

Edited by Loink
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3 minutes ago, Loink said:

 So far no one here has been able to debunk Morde with any valid opinions. 

 

thats the great thing about opinions, you can't debunk them, which is why most people just "-1" suggestions

Edited by platinumteef

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All opinions are valid.  Clearly the OP has never been in a PMK, so he knows nothing about the trust, dedication and teamwork required to build (or destroy) a kingdom.

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3 minutes ago, Loink said:

Every time this idea has been brought up before this is all people say lol, you don't have to bash the whole idea down when there's such a simple fix to it. Because if it can be coded then the idea of disallowing crosses when enemies are in local, can be implemented. Also he did suggest that you can only spawn at the capital and it can't be moved besides every 6 months. And to the issue of "All TC deeds are close to eachother so it wont matter" it can also be implemented that when a certain amount of enemy players enter any deed of that kingdom, the portal will also lock for the opposite kingdom so that they cannot abuse and send 10 people over from cele where they can spawn in capital grab gear from a chest, tame a horse and run off to the deed to defend. There easy fix to your problem,

 OH BUT WAIT, THERES MORE!

 

Implement a delay before Hota, and Battlecamps say 5 hours? Before and 3 hours after. Then it opens up again. Doesn't apply for uniques because those aren't usually found right away anyway. Easier to find battlecamp than to find a dragon. You guys literally bash down freedomers opinions for no reason. So far no one here has been able to debunk Morde with any valid opinions. 

Think preventing people from porting over in relation to defense by having someone having been in local of that kingdom recently that "interferes with the portal" would alleviate the problems with people teleporting in to defend.
Good idea.

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1 minute ago, Wargasm said:

All opinions are valid.  Clearly the OP has never been in a PMK, so he knows nothing about the trust, dedication and teamwork required to build (or destroy) a kingdom.

I play in AO.
Again, ad hominem is useless for arguments.
Instead explain how trust, dedication and teamwork gets eroded by shortening down a 1 hour timer to a 1 minute one?

Edited by Noevi
typo
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5 minutes ago, platinumteef said:

 

thats the great thing about opinions, you can't debunk them, which is why most people just "-1" suggestions

That is also why opinions are just opinions, they hold little value to anyone but the person that holds them. Evidence, logical reasoning and coherent arguments however can sway opinions for those that actually want to develop their value-base, if I am proven wrong or lose an argument, I basically leveled up irl because I learned something, maybe you should premium your irl account instead of staying capped? :)

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You're talking about allowing freedomers (mercenaries as you call them) the ability to port into my deed (capital, whatever) to fight.  Spies, deceit, and deed/door permissions required would leave the Chaos deed susceptible to griefing, intel gathering by the enemy and stealing.  

 

I think the question that needs answering is why you think this is necessary.  Now that you don't have to sail from the east border of Chaos to get to any side of the map, it's not like it takes hours and hours to sail to and from.

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3 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

You're talking about allowing freedomers (mercenaries as you call them) the ability to port into my deed (capital, whatever) to fight.  Spies, deceit, and deed/door permissions required would leave the Chaos deed susceptible to griefing, intel gathering by the enemy and stealing.  

 

I think the question that needs answering is why you think this is necessary.  Now that you don't have to sail from the east border of Chaos to get to any side of the map, it's not like it takes hours and hours to sail to and from.

I'm saying that's a possibility with the system, but you would obviously need to invite them to your kingdom first, so they would have to sail there to be invited, as I wrote in the post they would also need to be in kingdom for a few weeks before the portal can be used(however I did say I don't think this is necessary, just leave it up to the kingdom if they want to trust the mercs.)
Basically, you join a kingdom, you build a portal on your freedom deed, then you can use it to travel to your kingdom.

Obviously having random people teleport to your deed is not a great idea, that is not what I suggested.

It does take me about an hour to sail and travel to chaos to get to our deed, depending on winds obviously, then an hour back, if you got 4 hours after work that's half of it spent on sailing instead of going out roaming with your friends.

Edited by Noevi
To answer the question I missed

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1 minute ago, Noevi said:

That is also why opinions are just opinions, they hold little value to anyone but the person that holds them. Evidence, logical reasoning and coherent arguments however can sway opinions for those that actually want to develop their value-base, if I am proven wrong or lose an argument, I basically leveled up irl because I learned something, maybe you should premium your irl account instead of staying capped? :)

 

are you insulting me now?

 

keep in mind I never insulted you, I just said I don't care about your opinion, but if you want to start a ###### slinging fest on your own suggestion thread, trust me I am more than down, just let me know

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6 minutes ago, platinumteef said:

 

are you insulting me now?

 

keep in mind I never insulted you, I just said I don't care about your opinion, but if you want to start a ###### slinging fest on your own suggestion thread, trust me I am more than down, just let me know

No I am not insulting you, I read your message as "I have an opinion, I can't be proven wrong cause it's an opinion.", which warranted replying that it's pretty unproductive to engage in conversation if you have already decided you will never change your opinions. It did not occur to me that you thought of my suggestion as an opinion. I have an opinion that lead to a suggestion, but the suggestion is not an opinion, I'm completely open to there being reasons this is a very bad idea, however I feel that those presented have been offered possible solutions. The opinion would be that Chaos needs something to inject a bit more traffic into the server(that is obviously completely opinion-based, some might prefer it to a bit slower).

As for starting turd slinging, you started talking about "don't die of brain disease reading this post" etc, so I think we can just leave it there.

Edited by Noevi

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