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PWreset

The "new" Food mechanic is horrible as well

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Ok I havent played the game for ages, so maybe 2years so it's only new for me. 

 

Now I started a REALLY new character.

 

And I just ate 3 cows and 2 sheep + a troll (yeah guards killed him) so that were around 6kg of meat. I filet it,  also added a potatoe, corn, 2 mushrroms and various other herbs to make multiple casseroles.

 

Yet all that food didn't even gave 20% on the foodbar.

This is seriously bad, it looks like all these new mechanics were not considering truly new characters, nor were they considering the great realism that many parts of the game had. With such a laod of food I should be stuffed. Maybe not nourished in the greatest way but definately not going into danger to soon starve because I just ate around 8kg of food. 8kg Try that in RL.

 

The old food system had a way better curve where you could fill yourself properly yet only got bonus from really good food. Now eating multiple animals doesn't even stuff you ? 

Good thing is I seem to have proper foodskills in RL otherwise I would have to go now and Buy 60cows to feed my 4 headed family for lunch.

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new system is funny - mixing some stuff to get interesting meal, but i have to deal with same issue like you - i only have few HFC and my meals are awful.

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as your butchering is low fileting the meat would ruin the ql of it, and ql is what determines how much each bite fills. if you're using "various other herbs" you're probably also making meals that are too hard for your current hot food cooking.

 

can just eat raw meat if you don't care about the ccfp or anything, or make a roast spit

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1 hour ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

as your butchering is low fileting the meat would ruin the ql of it, and ql is what determines how much each bite fills. if you're using "various other herbs" you're probably also making meals that are too hard for your current hot food cooking.

 

can just eat raw meat if you don't care about the ccfp or anything, or make a roast spit

 

and exactly thats what makes food mechanics bad, If I eat that ql 60 meat raw its doing good stuff If I cook it it's suddenly bad. But I need to cook stuff to ever increase in skill.

And fileting the meat doesn't realyl ruin it given that cooking makes low ql anyways.

Edited by PWreset
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imo, I love the new cooking ways. What I always do to train up HFC is make everything into a breakfest. I fillet, then dice, then fry, then put it in a bowl to make it a breakfest. Always try and process your food as much as you can, that helps get the most out of your food. I trained my butchering up high very quickly via this. You can even dice the meat then mince it then fry to get an extra butchering action.

 

 If you need bulk food to fill your belly, I suggest stew as well. 

 

Then when you get to 20 HFC, then meals are a bit better. I have 23 HFC and I can get nutrition up to 70 easy and fill all the CCFP with y meatball meals 

 

 

What I dont like about the system is the individual affinities. I use a mod on WU to make it so all the food has a set affinity to make it easier to sell the food/ make food that is worth wile for a whole community with less effort. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, PWreset said:

 

This is seriously bad, it looks like all these new mechanics were not considering truly new characters, nor were they considering the great realism that many parts of the game had. With such a laod of food I should be stuffed. Maybe not nourished in the greatest way but definately not

Yup... several community members myself included have brought this up before and nothing seems register with the devs that it needs a update. I would say this, along with the UI and the newbie experience should be a priority number 1. What do I know though.

 

Best thing I can say is just eat a 90+ QL pumpkin if you can find some for taking up the food bar.

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If you do "lore" on the cooking container you can see difficulty. Try to keep that under your skill if you can. You will however get skill from cooking just a corn and a meat in a frying pan, even if you have 0 in HFC. I suggest you just level your cooking skills a bit and you will soon find out that the new cooking system is rather interesting.

 

It may be difficult to get a nutritional meal out of none cooking skills, thats how it should be. A bad cook shouldnt be making good meals. The better skill you have, the more options for good food you get.

With the new cooking system you will find that cooking can be interesting at all skill levels, if you want. :) 

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4 hours ago, PWreset said:

Now I started a REALLY new character.

You make a really good point within the context of your post so I won't quote the whole thing here. I agree that when they did the cooking update a few years ago the nutrition portion of it was drastically nerfed to produce the results you mentioned. Also yes, they should have left the heart of the system alone and just added the beneficial aspects of CCFP as a bonus but unfortunately to offset the bonus they chose to "balance" this by reducing the nutritional sustainability of the rest of HFC. Typical of the give something but then take half of it back approach that WO seems to cling to.

 

Even worse added onto this is that now if you wish to raise HFC there is a 5 min or so timer to the next meal/casserole/whatever being cooked. The only way around this now is to use the old approach of cooking multiples of the above at once with numerous bowls/frying pans so that as they all cook within the same short time frame you will at once (almost) then get all the combined skill gains from each of them. Although I  had always looked at this as a "cheat" now it is the only viable approach to raise HFC for anyone unless you want to work near the oven and refill the one container every 5mins (aprox).

 

Sure, some nice things had been added to the cooking system but the heart of it has been messed up as stated in the process; however, due to the time period since these obvious flaws have been exposed and nothing beneficially has been done to resolve it I detect a stubborn or careless non-response into the indefinite future. Such is Wurm life.....

 

=Ayes=

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31 minutes ago, Ayes said:

Such is Wurm life.....

 

These exact words are words that I really do not understand. Since when was the consumer powerless to tell a service provider or a manufacturer that they do not like their product? There is a whole lot of this in our world culture nowadays, and that's obviously something I can't discuss here without my post getting Gestappo'ed.

 

My point is this;

We are the consumers. In the end, WE decide whether Wurm sinks or floats by putting OUR money into the system. If that system changes for the worse in such a way that we don't enjoy it, we have the power to make this abundantly clear by retracting our monetary assets from the equation.

There is some of this happening, with the decline of the playerbase over the last few years that we can all agree has definitely happened.

But to me there seems to be a number of people who perpetually "look past" this because they have hope for the game. Hope for changes, that often aren't even on the board of consideration as far as the team has told any of us.

 

Now, I am one of those people - whole-heartedly I want Wurm to be a good game and I want to say that I look forward to future changes and seeing the game grow. While some of the freedom oriented changes are good, they aren't needed or often even wanted, in the case of the fishing overhaul.

But at some point, I have to look at the direction Wurm is headed and acknowledge the fact that it is not headed in the direction I would like to see it go - Nay, the changes that are being made are actually making my time spent here less and less enjoyable by the week.

 

Where is that line drawn? And why is it that people are not taking this course of action? Do they simply not believe that it is warranted?

 

The matter of fact is that at this point, Wurm isn't a good game in it's current state, and the game isn't getting much better. There aren't any talked about changes that we actually want to happen, or that need to happen. And the game isn't growing. Entire facets of the game are being amputated like a gangrenous leg. (Thanks, PvP)

 

As much as I want to see this game progress I believe at this point the only way we are going to get the type of drastic 360-degree turnaround that we all agree needs to happen, is if Wurm and its team are presented with the ultimatium of making changes or the project going defunct and unfunded. Only time will tell.

Edited by whereami
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For meals, chop/dice the ingredients first, and fry them separately ... when all are "fried" then mix into a meal.  Should give way better results.

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I don't think the issue is about how to best use the system as it it.  The issue is that, as it is now, the system is flawed.

Chopping ingredients does not make meals more nutritious or filling, so why does the game make it so?

Pre-cooking some of the ingredients does not make meals more nutritious or filling...

Chopping ingredients isn't a skill...  makes no difference to your stomach if you chop perfectly uniform sized little bits or a hot mess.

 

Good games have systems that are intuitive to the player.  :) 

 

Unless you burn the meal into charcoal, the QL of the meal really shouldn't matter to the character eating it.  The only reason it does, in my humble opinion, is to appease the long time players who feel they have a right to more "profits" from selling cooked food.

 

 

Edited by Ricowan
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I still remember when I started, which was before the new food mechanics. I remember the issue with feeding yourself was just as bad. In fact, my neighbor Browndog used to make me caseroles to feed me because I couldnt feed myself. So what people told me to do was kill a pig or a lamb and make a spit. Its huge kg wise and makes it easier to fill your food bar.

 

The best way to get food in the beginning nowdays is to make breakfasts. Forage, botanize, kill mobs and make them individually: 1 meat in a pottery bowl, or 1 corn or 1 pumpkin etc. Make a lot of meals and in no time you'll hit level 10. If you make everything individually, you'll get quick gains. By level 7 you will be able to make somewhat reliable meals, and by level 15 or so you'll be set. 

 

Everything in wurm requires grinding and effort. Take an hour or two and forage then cook what you find. It wont take you long. 

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I also think there is too many inconsistency, like paprika beign a potted plant only, why is this? usually you just plant paprika like tomatoes in your garden. And this really is a bit unfun havign to memorize all these tiny differences. a proper game should offr both, farming as the mass production possibility and potteries for picking some once in a while.

 

ok theres a lot more stuff not making sense.

 

there is fresh herb, ther eis herb, but both chopped are just chopped, but it seems to make a difference which was chopped, so why is there no "fresh chopped XYZ" herb

 

 

Why is diced and minced meat making cooking more difficult? A big chunk of meat is much more harder to ciook (not burn it at the outside but making it well done on the inside) than just minced or chopped meat.

 

Why can we not combine chopped or minced meat? both are not one piece anymore, they are just a pile or small piees of meat, so they should be combineable.

 

The wiki lists mushrooms as vegetables, but in the cooking they do not count as vegetable.

 

Carbs, what exactly is that? Something potatoes seem not to grant is using mashed in a meal and other increadients that definately should grant carbs, like corn.

 

Why is salt optional but herbs not? both is basically just for the taste of a meal.

 

The more I use the cooking feature the less fun it is, I guess I let others do that annoying nonsense feature because there is no logic, and theefore cannot be any fun in it.

 

 

Edited by PWreset
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Yeah the food fill mechanics weigh far too much on the QL of the item instead of the actual quantity eaten. Here's the % of food fill for a given QL of food (blue line). This is identical whether it's a meal, raw meat, whatever.

RsBo86z.png

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Fill per bite was lowered for the purpose of stacking affinities, imho.  Also, CCFP is where it's REALLY at when you look at what combining the effects can do for your skilling.  That's where I say "fry everything before mixing into a meal".  Doesn't hurt the nutrition either.

 

A 6x6 where you can keep 9 different crops (2x2's) and any half-decent source of meat can keep you quite well-fed and if you have one of each crop and meat, you can even make your own affinities with that fried meat+vegs combo.

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11 hours ago, PWreset said:

I also think there is too many inconsistency, like paprika beign a potted plant only, why is this? usually you just plant paprika like tomatoes in your garden. And this really is a bit unfun havign to memorize all these tiny differences. a proper game should offr both, farming as the mass production possibility and potteries for picking some once in a while.

 

ok theres a lot more stuff not making sense.

 

there is fresh herb, ther eis herb, but both chopped are just chopped, but it seems to make a difference which was chopped, so why is there no "fresh chopped XYZ" herb

 

 

Why is diced and minced meat making cooking more difficult? A big chunk of meat is much more harder to ciook (not burn it at the outside but making it well done on the inside) than just minced or chopped meat.

 

Why can we not combine chopped or minced meat? both are not one piece anymore, they are just a pile or small piees of meat, so they should be combineable.

 

The wiki lists mushrooms as vegetables, but in the cooking they do not count as vegetable.

 

Carbs, what exactly is that? Something potatoes seem not to grant is using mashed in a meal and other increadients that definately should grant carbs, like corn.

 

Why is salt optional but herbs not? both is basically just for the taste of a meal.

 

The more I use the cooking feature the less fun it is, I guess I let others do that annoying nonsense feature because there is no logic, and theefore cannot be any fun in it.

 

 

To be honest, I want to play Wurm Online, not RL simulator online. 

 

Imagine yourself walking 200 tiles at 0.2km/hr because you forgot to bring extra water, then realizing that you cant drink water from a river or lake you got to because you need to boil it first.

 

Imagine not being able to light your forge because the kindling you made form your log is too "wet" because the wood is freshly cut.

 

Imagine having to wait 6 rl months before you can harvest your crops.

 

Imagine having a carrying capacity max of 90kg and walking encumbered at 25kg?

 

A lot of things in Wurm dont make sense irl because its a videogame. 

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10 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

To be honest, I want to play Wurm Online, not RL simulator online. 

 

Imagine yourself walking 200 tiles at 0.2km/hr because you forgot to bring extra water, then realizing that you cant drink water from a river or lake you got to because you need to boil it first.

 

Imagine not being able to light your forge because the kindling you made form your log is too "wet" because the wood is freshly cut.

 

Imagine having to wait 6 rl months before you can harvest your crops.

 

Imagine having a carrying capacity max of 90kg and walking encumbered at 25kg?

 

A lot of things in Wurm dont make sense irl because its a videogame. 

 

But if you actually read his argument instead of making a random case in offense, he actually makes a valid point somewhere in there and never once used was the word "realism" but rather "this doesn't ####ing make sense"

 

22 hours ago, PWreset said:

The wiki lists mushrooms as vegetables, but in the cooking they do not count as vegetable.

 

Namely the wiki having false information.

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Well, if the question is "is the 'new' cooking system intuitive?" the answer would certainly be "well, not overly", and be it only that hunter/gatherers in a medieval or else pre modern setting would hardly have a sense of calories, carbon hydrates much less proteins, fat yes probably. So one should not expect too much "realism" from it.

 

When I started I dumped the stupid advice "go fishing" immediately when finding that I would either be dead or able to feast from spider, wolf, bear, and troll meat for weeks before having reached a shore in case I survived, but was mainly running from foes to the close by templars or tower guards (took me some weeks to learn about the "help" or "guards!" mechanic :) ).  So mainly I was foraging and botanizing in the vicinity enjoying the (also not "realistic") finding of rare coins here and then, even when selling excess stuff to the settlement token of the starter town.

 

Otherwise I ate what I foraged and botanized, always filling my belly but never exceeding 11% nutrition until I was able to sac rares, feasting from the yulboard during christmas/new year, and finally learning to cook casseroles (not that hard, one veg or meat plus one berry), and detecting how easy breakfasts (cooking practically everything in a pottery bowl) were, reaching up to 72% nutrition that way, still no CCFP. At that time I long had a frying pan etc. but seldom made meals. The fact I had to learn so much about crafting, mining etc. made it convenient to ignore cooking beyond my primitive skills.

 

First time I learnt how to make CCFP was during watching a Wurm Wednesday stream (about a dragon slaying if I recall correctly) where Emoo prepared a CCFP meal in a haste just chopping some vegs and herbs and dropping them into the pan along with the usual meat and veg. I could only gasp "damn, that easy". Using recipes and the cookbook correctly took some time from that point, but from then on, cooking, using the Lore button etc. started to be some fun, at least from time to time.

 

In summary: cooking and nutrition are deeply intertwined with Wurm game mechanics such as affinities, CCFP and similar. Therefore they are not extremely intuitive at start. A beginner has not to starve anyway. At my starter town Vrock Landing on Xanadu, the local inn provides free CCFP food as well as beds for beginners, and I was using those services for quite a while as well. This may be different elsewhere.

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There's a distinction between being able to survive as a newbie, and being able to get maximum benefit out of the food system.  And that's as it should be, wurm is a massively complex game, so there's only so much intuitiveness that can be baked in before you have to sacrifice depth for it.  The early game bit works fine, if you do it right, and that perhaps needs a bit of help - maybe some advice about not cooking stuff until you've got some practice in?  I remember there being a first-days-in-wurm page on the wiki somewhere, which was helpful when I started, no idea if it's still there though.  To me, a really bad cook making food worse by burning it or mixing the wrong flavours etc makes RL sense, but maybe that's just because I can't cook.  Wurm is a game, not a reality simulator, so it is inevitable that some things will work in a different way to RL; expecting everything to just be easy and totally obvious and accessible on day 1 kinda misses the point of wurm.

 

If the wiki info is wrong, you should post in the wiki section of the forums - that way, the volunteers who maintain it can update and correct it.

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Being from the pre-cooking "enhancement" era I pay little (if any) attention to CCFP (turned the bar off) and affinity bonuses from food which simplifys eating into just the Nutritional aspect of maintaining it at 90-99% from either 50+ QL *hot* meals or an occasional sacrifice for the skill gain bonus they provide. The rest of the new cooking system can be totally ignored with little negative impact as whatever bonuses you get from paying attention to CCFP and affinity foods is minimal. Players not familiar with the intricacies of the new cooking system should read the Wurmpedia and the new cooking update info on the forum section and then judge if it is worth their while or of interest to them to get deeper involved with.

 

Don't be fooled into thinking that you must pay any attention to CCFP and affinity bonus food to play the game well as it is just an extra bonus. I think the main point of this thread is that newer players need to have created an easier way to maintain their basic Nutrition level as it was pre-cooking changes with their negative impact to them. Older players and those with higher HFC suffer much less (if any) in comparison.

 

=Ayes=

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17 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

To be honest, I want to play Wurm Online, not RL simulator online. 

 

Imagine yourself walking 200 tiles at 0.2km/hr because you forgot to bring extra water, then realizing that you cant drink water from a river or lake you got to because you need to boil it first.

 

Imagine not being able to light your forge because the kindling you made form your log is too "wet" because the wood is freshly cut.

 

Imagine having to wait 6 rl months before you can harvest your crops.

 

Imagine having a carrying capacity max of 90kg and walking encumbered at 25kg?

 

A lot of things in Wurm dont make sense irl because its a videogame. 

 

And thats why the old system was better you didn't had to care too much about all the increadients, In fact wurm makes stuff overly complicated, because In a RL pan I just throw in like whatever i want roast it and have FOOD. n wurm now each container is superrestrictive in what you need to make a proper dish now. They actually managed to make food more complictaed less sense making than RL. So they generated just a bad simulator. Dried paprika is mostlikely a spice, just fresh paprika is very much a vegetable.

 

it would also help a lot of the game describes to which sort of food it belongs to. There are also some spices which for soe reason cannot be used in a meal, because, well, Rolf decided so. We really shouldn't stray further from RL into articial complexity.

 

 

The problem of WURm is it starts to acting very inconsistent in it's logic, esepcially with the new mechanics.

 

How many items can chop down a tree? (my favourite here is the rake)

How many items can buther an animal?

How many items can chop herbs or meat?

 

In fact cooking was made so complicated and unintuitive they had to make that strange cookbook. Yet it's inconsistent as well.

Edited by PWreset
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I just started to play Wurm on Friday, 4/19, and gotta say that the food issue for brand new players to the game is seriously harsh. I get this is not an easy game, and I love the challenge of not being on a guided leash. 

 

I want to love Wurm, but right now, my first toon is parked in the new town, at 20% health, and she can't cook or harvest or cook obtainable foods to sustain her health meter. 

 

I created another character to focus on foraging and fishing, and that's not going be enough either. I've seen a bunch of posts in this thread that says cooking is actually not a solution for the early player. Well no kidding!  You all seem to think that we can do something different to survive, but again, how is a 3 day old player going to know those things, because the Guides on the Wiki says Cooking is the way to go. Clearly, that is not true. 

 

The biggest problem RIGHT NOW is the lack of decent meat. Low level fishing is the only way to get decent quantities, and meals from those fish gives NEGLIGIBLE return. From what I have seen so far, I'd need like 300 fish and herbs and berries to get maybe, 30% health. The harvest time required would basically starve a new player.

 

Since I am brand new to the game, I don't know where anything is. I don't know a good spot to get actual meat (beef, pork, chicken). I've seen 1 wolf, a couple of spiders, and a cow (which I killed). Surely, there are other animals around. Where the hell are they?

 

It's looking like the ONLY way a newbie can survive is to have someone else GIVE them over Level 20 meals, until such time as they can cook their own level 20 meals. 

 

Tell me I am wrong. Options? If so, send em my way, please! I'm spinning my wheels and basically haven't accomplished anything yet.

 

 

Edited by Cynlanton
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8 minutes ago, Cynlanton said:

Tell me I am wrong. Options? If so, send em my way, please!

This might be a common issue - i dont know. The cooking system is not to blame on this one though. Its merely a knowledge issue: you will not die if youre not eating. Keep your thirst bar up (to regenerate stamina) and avoid hotsile creatures (some wounds will get worse if not healed). Then when you have got some various skills, you might want to start preparing some food to get your hunger filled.

When you get some food to keep both thirst and hunger bar up, it will be safer to do some hunting - as food and water can aid your wounds.

 

Short version: My suggestion is to not stress the food stuff yet. :) 

 

If you would need some help with more tips and tricks, feel free to pm me ingame (/tell Nordlys). Im located on Independence.

Edited by Nordlys

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17 minutes ago, Nordlys said:

This might be a common issue - i dont know. The cooking system is not to blame on this one though. Its merely a knowledge issue: you will not die if youre not eating. Keep your thirst bar up (to regenerate stamina) and avoid hotsile creatures (some wounds will get worse if not healed). Then when you have got some various skills, you might want to start preparing some food to get your hunger filled.

When you get some food to keep both thirst and hunger bar up, it will be safer to do some hunting - as food and water can aid your wounds.

 

stamina also regenerates horribly low when the food bar is very low.

 

Also, has soemoen invenstigated the cookbook?

 

it is badly written the way it is.

 

little example:

 

Oat porrige lists

 

+mandatroy

Oat

Water

+Optional

Salt

 

But the other stuff, like meat Meal in the fryign pan is messing that system up.

 

because Mandatory is actually Meat 1 hearb ,berad,or cheese etc, one sort of veggie.

 

yet they are not listed under mandatory properly, they are listed on the same level as mandatory, makign one think it is not mandatory. But it is also neither labelled optionally. So trying to figure out how to rad the cookbooks bad consistency is pretty bad and badly displayed

 

hABXEj.jpg

Edited by PWreset
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One thing that might help, without negatively impacting the difficulty and challenge for established players (which my understanding is the #1 motivation behind both fishing and cooking overhauls)  is simply  extending newbie buffs from 24 to 48 or even 72 hours. By that time, they will have greater  abilities at farming, hunting, and cooking better quality foodstuffs.  They will have time to have a small vegetable garden planted, tended and harvested and to actually have an oven, FSB with some berries mushrooms and  meats stockpiled (I always save herbs and seeds for planting),  and proper cooking equipment and a start at a decent hot food cooking skill (which is now HARDER to raise than before).

 

They'll still need to eat, but not need to spend most of their day pouring every resource into staying fed. I don't like to starve fat layers as a new player by not eating at all because that simply exacerbates the whole nutritional issue. Yes it is nice to know you won't die but that strategy is really making other issues worse.  

 

Zero negative impact on the  onward march towards "more challenging game mechanics" for the high tier players. 

 

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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