Two Birds, One Stone

[Wargasm 1,928]

I'll preface this by saying Epic players will immediately come -1 this thread... but it's something I've been thinking about and would like to see some discussion on.

 

Make the Epic cluster (or at least the home servers) free to play.  No skill caps, no resource caps, no PvP restrictions like non-prem accounts not being able to see local.  

 

This is going to provide use for a dead cluster, as I believe alot of people would be interested in playing the game if it was "free".  Deeds/upkeep will obviously still cost silver.  And while the F2P players might be thinking "but...but it's PvP" .... it's free.

 

Meanwhile there's no impact to Freedom and freedom players' skills.  People can skill on Epic all they want and the skills will not transfer to freedom.  Same with all the items that would be made, etc.

 

Benefits I see:

1.  Influx of new players.  Not necessarily subs, but new players.  And that's a start for growing the population back.

2.  It gives Epic some purpose for more than the 5 people playing there.  

3.  Epic skill curve + faster actions (like many of the WU players are accustomed to using for faster progression).

4.  (My favorite) - people experience life on a PvP server and realize it isn't so bad, thus possibly bolstering the PvP population of Wurm.

 

Discuss.

[Jore 338]

Prepare for even more abuse of alt accounts.

 

Other than that, this would be a solid move I think.

[Flubb 773]

Only thing I'm missing is an incentive to even sub and play on Freedom then; as you say, if PvP is "not that bad" (I can't tell, I'm just starting to look around on Epic for some misadventures, the only reason I see it as "not being bad" right now is the fact that absolutely nobody is there), Freedom being the "PvE cluster" is not that alluring. Those who actually want to PvP no longer have a reason to do it on Chaos.

 

As I understand Epic revolved around exclusive content (no longer so exclusive since a lot of it was shipped to Chaos.)

If the roles were reversed and Freedom would be the cluster with exclusivity and generally "moar stuff" I'd see this as a completely feasible move; in fact it'd be pretty close to what Runescape is doing, which seems to do rather well for itself. (Whatever you may think of it and its playerbase.)

 

+1 on the premise that this aspect is further explored. Right now, what does Freedom have to offer over Epic? Summon Soul and Wagoners as far as I know. Meanwhile Epic has better Valrei rewards and additional mobs? Feels like Epic still has a slight edge in available content, despite the gradual nerfs it got.

(Like I said, not acutely aware of all the "pros" and "cons", it'd be helpful if someone who plays both clusters actively could make a comprehensive list as a better foundation for a discussion.)

 

Since we're being controversial anyway...Rifts aren't being done now on Epic, to be entirely frank. If Epic was made the "free cluster", Rifts could be disabled there in the same breath to give Freedom some exclusive content. It's just a start though, some potential future content would have to focus on Freedom (that's where the money would be then, after all.), which could be discussed and linked to here.

 

[Etherdrifter 2,518]

This isn't the worst idea I've read; though I VERY much doubt it would have the impact you think.

 

Life on a PvP server "isn't so bad", because the PvP servers have always been the runts of the litter; the have always been the lowest population servers, for as long as I have been playing.

 

Fill the servers up, and suddenly it may not be so tolerable.

 

Odds are, it may draw back some of the old PvP crowd (wurm's best whales), we'd see "PvP balance plz" move to epic (which is a split code base from freedom), and chaos would die (who would pay to PvP when you can do it for free on an active server cluster?).  Win win really.

 

+1 from me

[Wargasm 1,928]

28 minutes ago, Flubb said:

Those who actually want to PvP no longer have a reason to do it on Chaos.

 

You do, as skill gain on Epic means nothing.  Although yes, Chaos is a PvP server, many people (myself included) will grind our skills on-deed when there is no PvP.  These skills are usable on freedom... but not if I were a free account PvPing on Epic.

 

I'll also note, that while yes, Epic is a PvP cluster, getting more people into PvP isn't the main objective here, but more of a beneficial side effect.  The primary purpose of the suggestion is to bring people back to play Wurm Online, or even some new faces.

 

And don't get me wrong, I'm sure there will need to be many tweaks to the epic code to support this change.  

 

Flubb's post also brings up a potential concern.  Imagine I'm a brand new player, I try out Wurm Online on Epic.  I play for a few weeks, months... whatever, and I get used to the insane fast skill gain, 2x action timers.... then I decide to explore the freedom side.  I can see their initial reaction being "wait... my skills start from scratch again, the actions are twice as SLOW, *and* you want me to pay for this?  Peace, I'm out."  Maybe another add-on to this suggestion is that Epic players transfer to freedom with 20? 30? in whatever they grinded on Epic the first time.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Wargasm

[armyskin 930]

+1

[Roccandil 959]

+1 to something mitigating the all-or-nothing premium approach we have now.

[Maiev 62]

+1 remove the freemium restrictions from epic

 

but also make the land more expensive to own 

[Wilczan 2,048]

+1

 

Why not.

 

Couse I sincerely doubt that anything good gonna happen to Epic in few years.

 

There's always be something more important to do then Epic.

 

Altough this kind of action would require heavy advertising.

[Flubb 773]

8 hours ago, Wargasm said:

I can see their initial reaction being "wait... my skills start from scratch again, the actions are twice as SLOW, *and* you want me to pay for this?  Peace, I'm out."  Maybe another add-on to this suggestion is that Epic players transfer to freedom with 20? 30? in whatever they grinded on Epic the first time.

 

On this note, such a change would also change the paradigm of the choice between Epic and Freedom, which currently is a "pick your poison" scenario. The different skill systems being one major point.

The skilling systems would have to be consolidated, if not unified, so that skilling is reasonably equal on both clusters. If skilling on Epic is just as fast as on Freedom, or perhaps a bit slower, there's no headaches about letting them have their skills on Freedom as-is or granting the [3x] bonus (or even higher) to E2F-migrants. The curve would also not neccessarily make much sense anymore.

 

11 minutes ago, Wilczan said:

Altough this kind of action would require heavy advertising.

 

Well, I've heard they're on it from super secret sources. Probably coming in hot in a year or so.

But seriously, they should consider doing something like this with Epic before the ads drop*, this is as good as timing to do it as it will ever be. And so far even Epic players don't seem to be opposed to it despite OP's prediction...

 

*although I reckon that once an ad campaign with AdSense or whatever is set up, it'd be easy to change your banners to something advertising this change should it come after the start of the ad campaign.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Flubb

[Angelklaine 4,266]

+1 this. The "loss of revenue" could be offset by higher deed cost and more silver sinks.

[Amaluna 148]

The "population" would certainly rise, cause each and everyone of us will have priest alts of every possible religion, including on enemy servers

 

 

 

 

[Timoca 154]

Not sure if it would be great if epic is the first thing that new players would get to see in Wurm.

I have nothing against epic, I lived there for some time and had my fun there but it's so different from the rest of the game.

Might give a bad first impression for quite a lot of people.

[Ayes 3,715]

20 hours ago, Wargasm said:

Meanwhile there's no impact to Freedom and freedom players' skills.  People can skill on Epic all they want and the skills will not transfer to freedom.  Same with all the items that would be made, etc.

 

19 hours ago, Wargasm said:

Maybe another add-on to this suggestion is that Epic players transfer to freedom with 20? 30? in whatever they grinded on Epic the first time.

Already violating the terms of your original suggestion so soon here. Usually this happens after the original idea has been adapted and then more is stated as being needed to "improve" the situation further.

 

Aside from that, although the idea of providing free Premium accounts on the Epic server with the restriction that they can never move off of it to the other servers sounds as if it would encourage more players to try Wurm pvp, it brings no income to the game from those players who only choose to play that aspect of the game as any further paid options are well, optional. Also, a good point was made as to why pay to play either pvp or PvE on the Freedom servers then for those who prefer to play games for "free". If more players playing the game doesn't translate into more income there is little benefit from having those players but rather more expense to the game to provide services from them.

 

This idea may actually encourage more players to play as a free Premium account on Epic than it would be as a draw for them to become regular Premium paying accounts, even encouraging current paying players to switch over to these free Epic Premium accounts. Without sufficient income there is no game for anyone to play be it "free" or not. Since this idea is most likely to further reduce game income in both the short and long term I see no merit in it.

 

=Ayes=

[Nappy 1,369]

+1

[Martynas5 435]

+1 if epic will be regularly wiped.

[Wilczan 2,048]

1 minute ago, Martynas5 said:

+1 if epic will be regularly wiped.

+1 if freedom will be regularly wiped

[MrGARY 12,421]

-1 to all this higher deed cost stuff.  Thats just a giant screw you to everyone that is premium regardless because of playing on freedom that still have deeds on epic because they've been waiting years for something to happen.  Especially after we've already paid higher deed cost for most of epic's existence because of a bug that took years for someone to care to fix

 

On paper it could sound nice.  In reality, it will just let people weekend altwarrior grief because their main game is perfectly safe yet again on freedom so they can laugh from their ivory towers as epic is killed some more.  Even if it only happens on a small scale, which it DID happen quite a few times in the past on epic due to being f2p to the point of there being a lot of bans, it can and has been damaging.

 

Premium in wurm can be a harsh all or nothing in a sense, which is old and outdated, but this isn't the answer.  I'd encourage freedoms 30 stat cap if that high before going f2p though, as that actually does help former players or players that had prem drop for whatever reason and might convince legit players to keep playing instead of saying screw this.  Maybe even removing the no local for f2p and instead a mechanic that blocks dropping a tent within x tiles from a deed you're kosd at to prevent local watcher alts from easily just respawning if killed and watching more.

[Wargasm 1,928]

2 hours ago, Ayes said:

 

Already violating the terms of your original suggestion so soon here. Usually this happens after the original idea has been adapted and then more is stated as being needed to "improve" the situation further.

 

Nobody's perfect.  Sometimes ideas need discussion and theoretical tweaking before they work.  I'm sorry if you're offended by my hypocracy.

 

 

2 hours ago, Ayes said:

*snip*  It brings no income to the game  If more players playing the game doesn't translate into more income there is little benefit from having those players but rather more expense to the game to provide services from them.

 

There's more to keeping a game running than dollar signs.  Like I tell all the idiots that swear the Wurm Economy is broken, you are motivated by the wrong things.

 

I want more people to know about this game.  I want to see a higher in game population.  I want more people to play, and tell their friends, and let their kids play and grow the game.  What good is a fake economy if you're the only one left playing?

 

2 hours ago, Ayes said:

This idea may actually encourage more players to play as a free Premium account on Epic than it would be as a draw for them to become regular Premium paying accounts, even encouraging current paying players to switch over to these free Epic Premium accounts. Without sufficient income there is no game for anyone to play be it "free" or not. Since this idea is most likely to further reduce game income in both the short and long term I see no merit in it.

 

 

If you are singularly referring to subs, then you're right, there will be a slight decline.  But my message to you (and the staff) is that if subs are 100% your only concern and not your true player base, let me know, and I'll find another game that cares about it's player base and not just making money.

[Daryan_AT 75]

Only way forward is to make it is a way, it does not matter where you are to skill or play - can't be that one players time for skill grind is worth more here .. than there .. we all pay the same money to play the game, so all must get equal treatment. Transfer back and forth will be good. F2P is a modern way to attract people.

Is funny, the new Elevation map was generated to have free players on the outside borders, and premium only spawn on the inside close to HoTa - didn't seem to work out as planned - and the free new players closer to server borders were raided so often every day until they finaly rage quited and never came back - so newbie and free to play areas needs lots of more protection to allow a little progress for new players, tunil they can face fights with us old accounts. Is the only way i see that might work when having a growth of population in mind, coming from new players.

[John 254]

I love having non-prem players on Epic. It's all good fun. We have a non-prem spawn area anyway. And hey, I won't have to pay for premium - or at least I think so.

Edited April 6, 2019 by John
I'm drunk.

[wipeout 1,355]

it would basically make epic be the fast paced wurm that some people love and when people are tired of things not meaning much(oh look you raided a deed and destroyed it well next morning its back to how it was and better) they can try chaos and freedom 

epic is a great way into wurm in that regard on a lot of points

[Killroth 352]

-1

[Steveleeb 1,067]

interesting, in 5 years i haven't had any interest in PvP wurm but if a PvP `free sub` server was available, I'd probably dive into it with a new char.
problem being, the cost of maintaing the server wouldn't be offset by subs.
question being, would it be offset by attracting new players to the game, some of whom would subscribe to play uncapped, on the other servers.

I don't know the answer to that.
i can guarantee that it wouldn't stop me paying for a subscription but i can only speak for me.
course the above already exists as wurm unlimited servers and wurm unlimited serves to draw people into wurm online.. it's just not as effective as this suggestion might be if applied to our permanence servers.

+1
 

[Taltos 175]

-1 If people can play the entire game for free why would anyone ever go to freedom and add income to the game?