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How do you think the wurm population could recover?

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1 hour ago, Eyesgood said:

What other game costs as much as Wurm Online, and limits you to a single character for that cost?  8 euro a month? most subscription games are around that. I don't get where this idea of wurm online is expensive is, it's one of the cheapest MMO's outside of the pay once model games, but they're a rarity nowadays. If you decide you want 3 priest alts and a 10s/month deed well that's not really indicative of the normal price of the game.

What other game punishes your actions with fails to make the game more interesting and fun? Majority of MMO's make getting the end-game gear super rng or take a very long time/lots of grinding to get. If you think wurm is bad in this regard try black desert online or any other korean mmo lol

What other game gives lower skill gains per action to lengthen the amount of time it takes to accomplish something? again majority of mmo's have diminishing returns for skillgain/the rate at which your power increases

What other game has no real end game for the first 10 years of game play? The game is an open end sandbox with no designated "end game" so that mainly depends on what's your definition of end game? a 90 skill? i've done the 1-90 grind in under a week before. every skill 90? every skill 99? becoming a dadd-level account? PvP? Being the best PvPer in the game? hunting uniques? 

 

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2 hours ago, Madnath said:

I miss Redbaron

HYBGMOM.jpg

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Over the years my very unofficial check on population has been the time taken for the last 50 village creates and disbands. Disband was always faster by a few days indicating a steady but slow loss of villages.  However, checking a few times recently, I see that the time is the same, indicating the number of villages is stable right now.

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On 3/24/2019 at 11:56 PM, Retrograde said:

We actually are working on setting up some advertising! It's still in the works but hopefully some results will come of it.

 

We're also focusing on retention as well, and looking at some things that promote ongoing gameplay, like rifts and archaeology do. Something to do when not grinding for skill alone. 

 

This is awesome to hear! ?

Edited by syncaidius

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I'm happy to hear advertising is being worked on! When I found out about Wurm it was because I (at the time) ran a gaming blog and had kept a close watch on gaming news. February of 2014 there was an article about Wurm being hit by a DDoS attack.  It looked unique and fascinating so I downloaded it that day and fell utterly in love. This may not be the way they hoped to find a new player, but hey, all news is good news I guess? :)

 

I love what the team has done with the Valrei Entertainment Network, but I'd like to suggest reaching out to other streamers as well about the game. I'm not a Wurm streamer, it's not what people come to my channel for. But every time I do play it, people usually seem interested and curious. They've often never heard of it, nor anything like it. I've even had several viewers start playing on the WU server I'm on. 

 

Which brings us to my biggest hurdle with this game: I love it, I adore it to pieces and it's my favorite game to just relax and listen to a podcast or chill after a rough week. But I cannot play it everyday. I can't always play it every week. I'm busy and have a mountain of things on my plate and though I miss WO enormously, I can't justify the price of premium for a single character and my deed when I know I can't play as much as I did when I first started. I don't think that the only people playing Wurm has to be a super dedicated niche of players who can devote a ton of time to it. Every game has both hardcore and casual players. If there can be a way to entice that group of people to play WO instead of, or in addition to, WU, I think a lot more people would be willing to stay. I love my WU server and the people in it, but the thing I miss the most about WO are the friends I had there. This game has a really special community and has continued to be friendliest bunch I've ever played with. 

 

So I guess my biggest recommendations would be: give a month of premium in WO to everyone who purchases WU, reach out to streamers/writers/youtubers/podcasters, etc who are known for playing other, similar games. Maybe give them a month of free premium too and some silver to buy a deed and really show their viewers what the game can be like. You could even put them in contact with a VEN member to guide them through the early stages. And lastly, consider finding a way to let both casual and dedicated players coexist. (Without requiring the less active players to have to live with friends. Part of the charm of Wurm is carving out your own place in the wilderness! :D)

 

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On one side, there's what the devs and GMs can do, like advertising (yay we're getting it!) and events like Enki's random enkounters.

 

On the other side, there's what we, the players, can do about it. There are plenty of things that come to my mind (for PvE anyway):

  • Be friendly and helpful towards new players.
  • Be considerate when gathering resources, and teach new players to be too.
  • Allow people to pass through your deed, especially close to the starter towns. I see too many deeds that are fenced off and look like prisons. That gives the impression that you're paranoid, antisocial, and we're not welcome here. We don't want new player's first impression to be that most established players are paranoid and antisocial.
  • Organize more social events where people can meet like impalongs, sermon groups, races, fight clubs (don't talk about it).
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18 hours ago, Ekcin said:

The problem with .NET, and C#, is that it is even more proprietary and therefore left to the grace of Microsoft than Java is with Oracle. As to languages, it depends, I despise C#, an even worse abomination of C than C++, even more than I despise Java :).

 

If you were going for multi-platform support, how would you solve it?

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You know what'd make people really stick around?

 

Remove priest restrictions.  In other words, remove the distinction between follower and priest, like most WU servers have.  Really, the game is goddamn fun like that.  Become Fo priests btw, for Fo is Groot.

 

There'll still be a market for enchants, the channeling grind is no joke.

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5 hours ago, Roccandil said:

 

If you were going for multi-platform support, how would you solve it?

Plase don't take the rant of an old fashioned procedural and systems programmer/admin too serious. I am aware that it would take a century to code something like Wurm in plain C. 

 

As to the multi platform, I still see game coding in Java (though daring and bold at the time of creation) an appropriate and working solution, and I love that Wurm is running so well on Linux. I do not know whether there even is C# or .NET support on Mac platforms, and the .NET clone on Linux is .. let us say, not perfect.

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Been around wurm something like 10 years or more, I dont know - dont keep track.

and...

Advertising ranks as probably the number one "Soon (tm)" item for this game...

I feel like I know players who have done business with me over the years who have spent more money in this game then this company has spent in its advertising budget.

Solution is simple.. freaking advertise.

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I started playing wurm back in 2004 and stopped in 2008, haven't really been playing it anymore, but a quick glance at it through the steam variant Wurm Unlimited showed me that it still had the same problems as back then :

*A Complex and very slow gameplay system where you could not set your character to "Complete" a task ( Mine 4 blocks downwards then 2 blocks west , Cut down threes in this area , harvest ) on his own and where you risked getting kicked out if you used a tool to do things for you.

*A very boring and limited skill system that stops at 99.9 ( 100 ) that should have been changed and made way more playable and fun ages ago.
*A very boring combat system.
*Impossible to mine tunnels that go above and under each other. ( Ie layers of tunnels ).

A game today needs to be easy to play, fun to play and it shouldnt be so time consuming that you feel that you have to spend eons in order to achieve something, the interfase needs to be easy to understand, the gameplay needs to be something that gives you a feeling of achievements and you should never feel that things takes ages or that you need another 10.000 clicks in order to cut down those trees 1 second faster. Simply put, Wurm like it is today might probably survive with very few players, but I honestly doubt that it will increase due to all the issues it has.

Now, if you were brave enough to clean up the servers, clean up the players and start from scratch with a 2.0 version where the appropiate changes where made, then I think it could have the potential to evolve, but theres so much things to be taken care of.

Wurm has potential, but it would have to go through a really hard redesign and make the game more modern, more playable and more fun for everyone. And people should not need to be addicted to repeating something, they should be able to take a break, come back the next day and have fun withouth needing to spend 10 hours daily in order to feel that moment of achievement.

Edited by Malvado
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I'm a simple man, all I could wish for in wurm is a better combat system. With the technology that is out there today (Look at LiF, Kingdom Come Deliverance & For honor, to mention a few) the whole "Stand on one tile and pray for good rng" Just feels really fake.

Don't get me wrong hunting is the most enjoyable thing to do in wurm as it is but I feel there is a lot of room for improvement. I had a few RL mates play wurm before and they were fine with the crafting and even the cost of premium. A few of them simply quit because of the fighting mechanics.

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On 3/26/2019 at 8:29 AM, Eyesgood said:

What other game costs as much as Wurm Online, and limits you to a single character for that cost?

 

On 3/26/2019 at 10:36 AM, Oblivionnreaver said:

8 euro a month? most subscription games are around that. I don't get where this idea of wurm online is expensive is, it's one of the cheapest MMO's outside of the pay once model games, but they're a rarity nowadays. If you decide you want 3 priest alts and a 10s/month deed well that's not really indicative of the normal price of the game. 

 

Wurm has a very low gameplay density, which makes the cost seem higher. That is, I'm paying X a month do things that take a long time to do, and that don't throw interesting gameplay decisions at me while I'm doing them.

 

Instead, for a couple months Wurm "rent", I could buy a brand-new game with brand-new gameplay, and all it has to do it last more than a couple months, and I'm ahead of Wurm in gameplay experienced for money/time spent. That's the economy Wurm is fighting.

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1 hour ago, Roccandil said:

 

Instead, for a couple months Wurm "rent", I could buy a brand-new game with brand-new gameplay, and all it has to do it last more than a couple months, and I'm ahead of Wurm in gameplay experienced for money/time spent. That's the economy Wurm is fighting.

But the benefit of Wurm, atleast Wurm Online is that ot lasts "forever"(not literally forever ofc, but as long as i can and want to play it). I don't want to change gameplay every year, or buy new titles or start fresh everytime, i want to persists atleast 10 more years in a world that existed over 10 years. That things that i have accomplished during those years have meaning for me and it is investment in years to come. Thats the main selling point of Wurm for me and i don't think any other game can come even close to that...

P.S. Ofc there is room for much improvments and overhauls :)

Edited by kochinac
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2 hours ago, kochinac said:

But the benefit of Wurm, atleast Wurm Online is that ot lasts "forever"(not literally forever ofc, but as long as i can and want to play it). I don't want to change gameplay every year, or buy new titles or start fresh everytime, i want to persists atleast 10 more years in a world that existed over 10 years. That things that i have accomplished during those years have meaning for me and it is investment in years to come. Thats the main selling point of Wurm for me and i don't think any other game can come even close to that...

P.S. Ofc there is room for much improvments and overhauls :)

 

I do agree, but instead of making long, repetitive processes bearable, approachable, or fun, Wurm makes them miserable, and -quickly- miserable (such that new players run into the misery in a hurry).

 

All RNG aside, the game attempts to force people to pay attention to those boring, mind-numbing processes. That's just bad business, and it's a mindset that needs to change. Allow players the freedom to AFK processes that deserve no more attention than that, work on improving gameplay to be more engaging, and you'll retain more players.

 

For instance, I'd consider the following:

  • Update the premium model to include two toons for the price of one;
  • Rework repetitive actions to be limited not by queue size, but by the stamina bar.

Thus, every premium player can have one toon doing boring, necessary stuff in the background, while the player does fun stuff with the other toon in the foreground. (I'd even go so far as to view every human player as a squad with multiple toons they can assign to background tasks, and actually support that model via the game and the client.)

 

One way or another, however, Wurm needs to admit it has a problem with mind-numbing, repetitive processes. :) If that doesn't happen, no amount of advertising is really going to help.

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things that will make wurm more enjoyable are far apart of that old players wants for themself cough remove priest restriction will not help new players cough

wurm is a niche game, adverstiting would to the right small portion of market is right, but even if new players came, the problem is the same keep the newplayers in game.
the game is slow as hell and tedious grinding, if something changed about that most old players would cry like pvpers on every change at forums...
economy is even worse than venezuela or argentina, at least not lying, about that and some players concerned about it. Like IRL no easy solution to it, harder if dont want people cry.

Things that i think could help:

bulk items price keep falling even if some large scale traders were banned for macroing...
change model of subscription to 1-3 toons per person, also limit the number of alts to that number.
remove the posibility of sell accounts/toons

new players only have 2 ways of make money for deeds or prem, buy it at webshop and make bulk items, but how compete againts a guy with 5 toons, 3 mining and 2 cutting bricks, also selling below the "standard" price?
fixed price for bulk or at least suggested

non prem alts allowed to drive, load and sail was good for commerce and move stuff, but the problem is so many sellers, dont think make things local would fix that.
also the spell to teletransport toons help for other items like sleep powders.
The problem remain the same, so many sellers.

for new players, armour and good ql weapon at start was good, also start with 19.5 body strenght, items could be lighter and make the improvable.
the 24 hours bonus is nice, but after that? make something to "buy" the bonus again with the useless bartender, like 1 week of the bonus for 1silver or so.

change unique drops to server wide (still premium needed), and make yellow potions craftable into something to sell players for premium time. So is tradeable for bulk items and unique drama solved too.

Make events like 2x skill (combinable with sb) at weekends for all time zones (like friday to monday).
Low the timers for everyhing at half, and maybe duplicate the exp of actions in normal gameplay.

BRING BACK THE OLD FISHING SYSTEM!
 

Edited by tamat

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1. Advertising.

2. Updated interface

3. Some sort of end game that isn't PVP

4. A community event that isn't RIFTS. The timing nearly always sucks and it's really hard to coordinate people there. Replace it with an instanced event, initiated when a group of X get together and do a ritual after gathering specific items together, and give it a cooldown for those who participated.  So, group one made of 10 players finishes it Monday and has to wait until the following Monday or whatever but group 2 is able to put 10 players together and perform the ritual on Tuesday, then they have a cooldown... and so on.

5. Organize more community events that emphasize the cooperation of players to complete a task, not some obscure event somewhere in the forums based on a secret post that happened at some point.

6. Create better item sinks. We have an overabundance of stuff with no market because it sits in warehouses with little use.

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8 hours ago, Seriphina said:

4. A community event that isn't RIFTS. The timing nearly always sucks and it's really hard to coordinate people there. Replace it with an instanced event, initiated when a group of X get together and do a ritual after gathering specific items together, and give it a cooldown for those who participated.  So, group one made of 10 players finishes it Monday and has to wait until the following Monday or whatever but group 2 is able to put 10 players together and perform the ritual on Tuesday, then they have a cooldown... and so on.

 

Basically an instanced version of this would be nice for that. Rift 2: Electric Boogalo

Making this instanced has plenty of implications that are worth toying around with, probably will in a separate thread. I was interested in this idea back then but thought the roadmap was too full for the devs accomodating new players instead. With the journal and Haven's Landing out, this may be worth picking up again?

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While I do not categorically rule out the idea of instanced events, I am unsure about the effort and the influence on balance and general gameplay. In other words: this must be researched and planned carefully if at all.

 

But please: do not touch rifts. I found and still find them a good and pleasant way to meet at least parts of the community on different servers, learn new parts of the world of Freedom Isles, and new techniques of sailing to and from the different servers, and develop combat experience. The rotating timelines are convenient/inconvenient to every timezone for some time, and allow or deny attending to normal wurmians (except the alarm clock setting crazies who may always come, sometimes me included). While maybe not ideal I fail to see better schemes.

 

As expressed earlier, I experienced the newcomer reception to be quite wanting at the time I (re-)entered Wurm in 2017. Part of the deficits may have been addressed by the foundation of Haven's Landing, which should be further evaluated and, where necessary, improved.

 

Personally I am very skeptical to any demands of "modern" features. I experienced how short lived fashions in IT, even more in gaming, may be. So the "modern", be it UI, be it web site, be it anything else, may turn "dated" even before it is fully implemented and stabilized. I do not see that the UI is that bad. I have the alternatives of right click drop-downs and windows for crafting, cooking etc. which I both appreciate, and mouse clicks, or sometimes keybinds and text input to react on. I don't know which new fashion is considered "modern" right now. But here again, I would speak out against any brute replacing.

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I'm sorry but I hope none of that comes true.

16 hours ago, tamat said:

bulk items price keep falling even if some large scale traders were banned for macroing...
change model of subscription to 1-3 toons per person, also limit the number of alts to that number.
remove the posibility of sell accounts/toons

Tbh if anyone is able to efficiently use 5 toons at the same time without macroing, let them.

 

16 hours ago, tamat said:

new players only have 2 ways of make money for deeds or prem, buy it at webshop and make bulk items, but how compete againts a guy with 5 toons, 3 mining and 2 cutting bricks, also selling below the "standard" price?
fixed price for bulk or at least suggested

Wurm is a free market, always has been. That means there is no "standard" price is for bricks or any other item. Just like IRL, when the supply is higher than the demand, sellers drop their prices because they want you to buy from them rather than their competitors.

 

And new players get a referral, that can get them a small deed and a few months of upkeep.

 

16 hours ago, tamat said:

change unique drops to server wide (still premium needed), and make yellow potions craftable into something to sell players for premium time. So is tradeable for bulk items and unique drama solved too.

I've never been on a unique hunt. I don't think it would be fair for me to get any of the loot just for being logged in at the right time. It could be based on participation like rifts though.

 

16 hours ago, tamat said:

Make events like 2x skill (combinable with sb) at weekends for all time zones (like friday to monday).
Low the timers for everyhing at half, and maybe duplicate the exp of actions in normal gameplay.


Just no.

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 most new people walk out of a starter town and die or drown or get lost cant survive 40 min remember when u started .so most say to hard good bye this is were we are  (  losing people  )  the most.  why not give every new person a row boat for a week before it falls apart  . that way they get to be safe cruising around see a bit of wurm, avoid death a bit u no avoid that first bear.  see the game sights where they may like to start a place row past a wurmers place and see whats possible get them interested

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6 minutes ago, christopher said:

 most new people walk out of a starter town and die or drown or get lost cant survive 40 min remember when u started .so most say to hard good bye this is were we are  (  losing people  )  the most.  why not give every new person a row boat for a week before it falls apart  . that way they get to be safe cruising around see a bit of wurm, avoid death a bit u no avoid that first bear.  see the game sights where they may like to start a place row past a wurmers place and see whats possible get them interested

 

I find  a lot of new players asking how to get to certain other servers after awhile.

Add teleport gates at each starter town that lets you go to any starter town .

I don't think it would diminish the experience of them looking around in any form , but make them look around more , travel more .

 

Wurm can no longer rely on terraforming only and RMT , there is something missing at it's core .

Rifts were a good start , just need more like that , not sure if it would be possible to have a large underground area as a dungeon with above ground parts also.!!

Wen I started Wurm  I figured it was a start to Ultima Online 2   mmo version  , a remake at first , I only wish it was ...

 

Maybe Devs need take a look at older games see what keeps them going .

 

Any and most mmo's have that feature to explore scary places , I don't find that in Wurm .

 

 

 

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Wurm is never going to be a mainstream MMO, and will never appeal to the majority. That is just its nature. I see a few suggestions that seem to be wanting to change it to be more WoW, with instanced events etc. There are also some mentions about its grindy nature and rng being unappealing to the general population.

 

Wurm caters to a niche market. It has its strengths, and it dominates in these fields. We should focus on building and expanding these aspects, which will in turn enrich the Wurm experience. A good example of what we did right is the cooking update. It opened up a whole new aspect to the Wurm life - folks who used to eat simple meals or even raw foraged veg and meat now cook or buy elaborately cooked food, to get better nutrition and also affinities. The colour dye update is another interesting update which adds creativity and fun to Wurm. Now armour is not only functional, but can also be a fashion statement. There are many things in the Wurm mythos/world system that are just ripe to be expanded upon. One example is alchemy, enabling us to make various potions (not just from unique blood), poisons, salves etc. Imagine the cooking update but for alchemy. Another example is arrows, making the metal properties apply to them. These are just a couple of suggestions, and I'm sure the community can think up a long list.

 

Instead of trying to overhaul Wurm and turn in into a WoW/other-more-popular-mainstream-MMO clone, we need to stay unique and build on what we already have. With the correct advertising strategy, we will get new players. Not all will stay on, but the ones who see, realise and appreciate Wurm for what it is will do so.

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we don't want a wow. we offer ideas that's all u may twist n turn them and get a good outcome .

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