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Roccandil

Allow people to buy increased skillcap for non-prem accounts

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This is a simpler suggestion based on early feedback to my previous suggestion about buying new skilled accounts; this suggestion removes the buying skills, and only deals with skill caps. (I'm not giving up on the buying skills idea, but am curious to see the response to this suggestion.)

 

So:

 

- Allow players to permanently increase the non-premium skillcap on their new toons to X by paying Y.

 

For instance, Wurm could offer the following:

 

- 20 euros gets you a skill/stat cap of 30;

- 40 euros gets you to 50;

- 60 euros gets you to 70;

- 80 euros gets you to 90.

 

The numbers can be adjusted, but the essential idea is providing a way for players to "buy the game", to thus remove the gut check of players running out of premium and facing the question "do I pay prem, or stop playing entirely?"

 

I suspect we'd see more player retention that way.

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You are selling the game way too cheaply. Apply these payments to only 1 Skill to raise to that rate and then maybe. Characteristics too, you have to pay those rates for only 1 in any category as well as that main one. This way it makes more sense for game income and provides the player the ability to focus on just a few skills if they are not willing to pay the lesser Premium price over time. If your suggestion would enable the game to make more immediate income than currently then it could be worthwhile. This does not.

 

=Ayes= 

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It's a monthly subscription game, just like many other games have been. Pay premium or quit entirely are not the only options.

This game continues to run by people paying subscriptions on account and to some extent deeds. If you remove that, you kill the game.

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I'd limit the skill cap boost to 70... making it to 90 remove all incentive to pay for premium. while it might be interesting, what would be the outcome of such system on pvp and priests?

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Wait, so I could pay €80 and never have to pay premium again unless I wanted to use 90+ skills? Sign me up!

 

Sorry, that's a silly idea. I think if you were to do exit interviews with players who decided Wurm wasn't for them, it would not be the premium cost or skill cap that turned them off.

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2 hours ago, Seriphina said:

It's a monthly subscription game, just like many other games have been. Pay premium or quit entirely are not the only options.

This game continues to run by people paying subscriptions on account and to some extent deeds. If you remove that, you kill the game.

 

But practically, they -are- the only options. Going back to 20 in everything, and having one's time spent doing anything grindy wasted gain-wise just means "stop playing Wurm, spend the money on a new game from Steam".

 

5 minutes ago, Schiann said:

Wait, so I could pay €80 and never have to pay premium again unless I wanted to use 90+ skills? Sign me up!

 

If it's a question of scale, the numbers are adjustable.

 

5 minutes ago, Schiann said:

 

Sorry, that's a silly idea. I think if you were to do exit interviews with players who decided Wurm wasn't for them, it would not be the premium cost or skill cap that turned them off.

 

Curiously, I heard from one of my new villagers that they tried to advertise for Wurm on another gaming forum, and got jumped on because of Wurm's subscription model. (They themselves have since gotten bored.) At that, I've seen too many players disappear when it came time to re-up prem, and this is just on Epic.

 

While other games may have had successful subscription models, Wurm's gameplay is extremely slow to develop, and substantial new content happens rarely. From the perspective of the average gamer, what does the choice look like? They've played Wurm a month or two, and maybe they like it well enough, but the subscription is asking them for the price of a decent new game every couple months. I'm surprised anybody sticks around, to be honest.

 

Bottom line: Wurm's business configuration is biased against player retention.

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2 hours ago, Ayes said:

You are selling the game way too cheaply. Apply these payments to only 1 Skill to raise to that rate and then maybe. Characteristics too, you have to pay those rates for only 1 in any category as well as that main one. This way it makes more sense for game income and provides the player the ability to focus on just a few skills if they are not willing to pay the lesser Premium price over time. If your suggestion would enable the game to make more immediate income than currently then it could be worthwhile. This does not.

 

=Ayes= 

 

It needs to be a simple, one-time, up-front cost, like a buying a normal game. Otherwise, why bother?

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wurm's not simple, one time tho

it's on sub model

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6 minutes ago, Finnn said:

wurm's not simple, one time tho

it's on sub model

 

Changing that is the point. :)

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Most MMOs are subscription based for a reason. I think most online services should be, as I feel that my continued monetary support gives me access to support in using whatever product I've purchased - whether it be an online gaming experience like Wurm or a cloud storage service.

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Do you think you can change wow's model with 1 opinion?

 

Than again opinions or wishes mean nothing, it's the way the game works and keeps going.

If you pay once and shut the cash flow.. that money have to come from somewhere, than we go for OP cashshop items, skins, perks, boosts, semi-gm powers, where do we draw the line?

Isn't it better to leave things how they are?

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Costs would have to be at least 6 times as high to even be considered reasonable. 

Edited by Hailene
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3 hours ago, John said:

Most MMOs are subscription based for a reason. I think most online services should be, as I feel that my continued monetary support gives me access to support in using whatever product I've purchased - whether it be an online gaming experience like Wurm or a cloud storage service.

 

Makes sense, and I like the point, but subscription doesn't seem to be modeled like support. In that case, I'd expect to be paying for faster attention from GMs if something went wrong and I had to submit a support ticket.

 

3 hours ago, Finnn said:

Do you think you can change wow's model with 1 opinion?

 

Than again opinions or wishes mean nothing, it's the way the game works and keeps going.

If you pay once and shut the cash flow.. that money have to come from somewhere, than we go for OP cashshop items, skins, perks, boosts, semi-gm powers, where do we draw the line?

Isn't it better to leave things how they are?

 

But is Wurm really following WoW's model? Sure, it's a monthly subscription, but doesn't WoW offer far more new content over time? In that situation, players feel like they're getting more for their money.

 

At any rate, I wouldn't get rid of the monthly subscription, I'd simply allow non-prem players to use their skills. You'd still need premium to improve your skills and get other perks, but if you let prem lapse, you can still use what you already ground.

 

Couple that with a potential higher skill cap (maybe 50, maybe just 30), and I think we'd see more people playing. That would do two things:

 

- The non-prem players would provide decent content for people who -are- paying, and might still wind up generating income to Wurm in other ways by being part of the economy;

- The non-prem players would stay used to playing Wurm between periods of paying prem, instead of (like now) conditioning them to -not- play at all, which risks losing them entirely.

 

I suspect that would result in more prem overall (at least from individuals, which is perhaps more important than prem alts).

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3 hours ago, Roccandil said:

- The non-prem players would stay used to playing Wurm between periods of paying prem, instead of (like now) conditioning them to -not- play at all, which risks losing them entirely.

 

I think that's actually a sound argument, Wurm could stand to be more flexible for players as it is rather niche, unlike WoW. In this spirit, a maximum cap of 70 sounds generous enough to let people contribute at least mediocre stuff (and be part of impalongs).

 

Combine that with massively slower skill gains between 20 and 70 while being non-premium (I think Etherdrifter came up with a similar idea before?) and there might be a good system for both player retention and keeping an incentive for the subscription.

 

The slower skill gain might have a deterring effect yet again, but only toward people who lack the commitment to the game. Someone who cannot bring the same funds to it I can sympathize with, but if you can't commit to this game, at least to this extent, there's no point imho.

 

EDIT: While this idea is fun to spitball about, perhaps allowing the purchase of shorter premium times via shop would equally provide the flexibility required by some players. It is already possible to buy half a month with silver. Buying with silver is comparably expensive though, so some options to buy shorter premium times with real money may be a simpler solution to the "flexibility" problem. This isn't mutually exclusive with this idea though, on the contrary, it may be complementary.

Edited by Flubb
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Ok.. lets imagine I pay for 90skill unlock, what's my incentive to ever pay for prem if I can grind all skills to 90 and use them? I'll be able to gather resources ql100, I'll be able to improve to ql90+, I'll be able to harvest ql90-100 depending on crop..

Why am I to ever pay again if I am just limited to not getting level 100 titles and be unable to imp to 96+.

 

It's a nice utopian idea.. but, game's model for making money will have to change with this to work.

Think about traders.. you buy a few and eventually.. you just never ever have to spend a cent on the game, your premiums is set, no need to work, no need to make/spend money, you just have to juice the free coins and play for free.

 

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23 hours ago, Roccandil said:

This is a simpler suggestion based on early feedback to my previous suggestion about buying new skilled accounts; this suggestion removes the buying skills, and only deals with skill caps. (I'm not giving up on the buying skills idea, but am curious to see the response to this suggestion.)

 

So:

 

- Allow players to permanently increase the non-premium skillcap on their new toons to X by paying Y.

 

For instance, Wurm could offer the following:

 

- 20 euros gets you a skill/stat cap of 30;

- 40 euros gets you to 50;

- 60 euros gets you to 70;

- 80 euros gets you to 90.

 

The numbers can be adjusted, but the essential idea is providing a way for players to "buy the game", to thus remove the gut check of players running out of premium and facing the question "do I pay prem, or stop playing entirely?"

 

I suspect we'd see more player retention that way.

 

If I could pay 80 euros and never pay for premium, but only be limited to 90 for all  of my skills, I'd do it in a heartbeat. The problem is that money needs to come in over the long-run and not short term. If everyone bought that, wurm would lose one of its major sources of income because almost nobody would premium an account.

 

Doing this is similar to the suggestion of making Wurm Unlimited Free to Play because it would increase the player base. Who cares if the player base increases if cash flow stops?

Edited by zethreal
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Ya'll getting stuck on the 90 cap rather than discussing the fundamental idea now. As egregious and out-of-touch as that option is(What else to expect from Roccandil at this point?), it was just thrown into the ring to illustrate the point and he isn't defending it with claws and teeth now...

20 hours ago, Roccandil said:

If it's a question of scale, the numbers are adjustable.

 

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Revoked my comments as I misunderstood. 

 

Thanks Finnn

Edited by Vaelir

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2 hours ago, Flubb said:

Ya'll getting stuck on the 90 cap rather than discussing the fundamental idea now. As egregious and out-of-touch as that option is(What else to expect from Roccandil at this point?), it was just thrown into the ring to illustrate the point and he isn't defending it with claws and teeth now...

 

@Flubbjust adjusting the price won't matter... you'll have to change the model which the game uses to make it's money.

It's not the matter of the money as a factor.. NOBODY is going to pay 200 or 500 euro to buy unlimited access to play prem-free forever, maybe there are 1-2-10-50, but that's able-to-people who are donating to the game they like(like the "crazy" kickstarter game pledges you've seen to be sold 1/2/5/10/20,000$).

 

Currently there are bunch of publishers or whatever they should be called.... selling subscription model for way below 10 or 8 euro a month giving you access to not 1 but 10-20-100+ games, some of which are last month releases or including games from their release date. If wurm had to compete with that .. there were to be a lot of changes to the market, account linking, characters bundle for xx money and so on... to keep people's attention here rather than going to other juicier deals.

Bottom line.. you want to play wurm, you stick around, if you cant handle the montly cost - you buy a WU copy and play there it's all the same with the difference of community you're 'stuck' with :) 

-----

@VaelirI think you missed the point here, he wants to change the level cap for skilling, not to buy a skilled character, he'll still have to grind any skill.. but won't have to pay for premium once he have paid for the package he's comfortable with being 30/50/70/90 skill limitation.

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On 3/3/2019 at 1:07 PM, Roccandil said:

The numbers can be adjusted, but the essential idea is providing a way for players to "buy the game", to thus remove the gut check of players running out of premium and facing the question "do I pay prem, or stop playing entirely?"

 

You don't have to stop playing entirely if your prem runs out. You can continue to play as a free character, albeit limitedly, but still able to do some of the stuff youre used to doing, including some of the more fundamental things like horseriding and carts, sailboats, etc, and simply prem back up when you decide you want to play the full game again. Wether that's because you're bored with the game or budgeting, it still applies.

 

If you run out of prem and quit playing because of it, that's just an excuse. If you run out of prem and quit playing, you just finished your paid period and decided the game is not worth spending more money on.

 

The idea that a single time-purchase is somehow more beneficial than a monthly cost makes no sense. If prem running out is enough of a reason to  quit, then you wouldn't spend a much greater amount on removing skillcap permanently. If it's an issue with prem being too expensive, same thing.

 

This only caters to those who know they would pay their prem for many months to come and want to save some bucks in the long run (which is when you buy your prem in yearly intervals).

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I would support this if it was capped at 50 or 70, but even if so I would also want a refund for the 1 year subscription I have. 

(Since all my skills are under 70 I would simply continue playing for "free" after a one time fee). 

 

Already, I can see this is flawed as I have paid at least 2 years subscription already.

 

There is no way I would pay £80 for 70 cap on my skills, especially if they were then reduced skill gain for not being prem. 

If they are not reduced by not being prem then there is no reason for the vast majority of people to go prem to build deeds etc.. (70 skill is enough) so the game will lose out in the long run. 

 

My question is though... if you're not premium what do you want to do with your time in wurm? Do you really need 70 skill to do those things?

The kind of situation this seems to address, in my opinion, is what Wurm Unlimited is there for. 

 

The "price" you would need to set this to get the community to accept it, would be more than a years subscription, so if a player "won't pay £10" to continue playing after a month, why would they fork this out?

 

 

I agree that the game is almost not worth playing without premium, but its really not that expensive, especially when you can pay in game.

(If you're at 20 skill to care about this thread you can easily make the silver in game).

 

Besides, I'm fairly sure the "non-prem" option is meant as a trial period/try before you buy. Not as a long term "stick around and play for free". 

Edited by Vaelir

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Weeeell... since we're talking about "the game losing out in the long run",  maybe it's time to not only not implement this idea but forbid silver for cash sales among players ^_^

 

#JustSaying

#TheMoreYouKnow

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21 minutes ago, Mordraug said:

Weeeell... since we're talking about "the game losing out in the long run",  maybe it's time to not only not implement this idea but forbid silver for cash sales among players ^_^

 

#JustSaying

#TheMoreYouKnow

 

Just do away with RMT for everything. Ban Silver, item & character sales for cash.

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While I do not buy and sell characters etc for real money.  I do know how many do.  I think if you ban it (or attempt to) that it wouldn't do much more than take the advertising for those trades off the wurm forums.  With them on the forums it at least lets you see a bit more about the person you are buying/selling to.  While not protected, so to speak,  you at least can see if they are doing other trades to know if they are semi safe or not.  I think if a way was found to stop some of it that you might lose some of the players that do participate in the market this way.  Will it gain you more?  I'm not sure it would but that is just my opinion.

 

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