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Roccandil

Allow people to buy new, skilled accounts

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Two observations:

 

- The current premium system regularly provides players with a gut check: do I really want to pay to keep playing? I get the impression this results in a lot of people quitting who might otherwise keep playing (and thus providing content).

- Account sales are a big deal, but don't directly benefit the developers.

 

So, I was thinking the following option might be interesting, in some configuration or other:

 

- Sell new skilled accounts of X level at Y price, with Z premium time.

 

For example, a new player could upgrade a non-prem account to 30 in all skills/stats for 50 euros (added to whatever skills/stats they ground), and get 3 months prem, as well as a guarantee that the skills/stats won't drop below 50 when the account goes non-prem.

 

For that matter, with that kind of up-front cost I'd never revert the skills/stats at all: you can't grind past 50 without being prem, but anything past 50 stays put and is used.

 

This would allow players to keep playing non-prem without a hard gut-check, while still providing a reason to get prem (skilling past 50). I could see people who would otherwise quit when it came time to renew prem, occasionally paying 5 silver for a few days of hard skilling, and then keep playing non-prem.

 

If Freedomers hate this idea, then I'd suggest it simply for Epic.

 

One thing I'll add is that a 50 euro cost is basically a single AAA game: and I could see a lot of players doing that once. The problem is when they're regularly asked to fork over that kind of money for a game that is no longer new/fresh/exciting. How many people think, "Wurm isn't bad, but I could get something new for this price?"

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11 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

new player could upgrade a non-prem account to 30 in all skills/stats for 50 euros

no no no

Selling and buying accounts is one of the wurmish economy problem

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10 minutes ago, Votip said:

new player could upgrade a non-prem account to 30 in all skills/stats for 50 euros

 

Do you mean that they will increase the skill cap as non prem to 30 or do they just get every skill to 30 ? 

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The big problem this game has with account purchases isn't "the economy" (since that's created by the players themselves and would turn to a flaming pile of dog excrement regardless), but that people who buy their skills don't understand the work that's gone into raising them. People that don't understand the time consumption for various tasks and achievements are more likely to suggest new features that ultimately make the game tedious, and sometimes horrible tedium suggestions slither their way into the game. So if enough player started buying accounts that were already skilled then more and more of those types of suggestions that only make sense to people that haven't played for any real amount of time would start getting support in the suggestions forum. The end result of that would be that older players would become alienated, new players with regular non-skilled accounts would become deterred and the type of people who want to buy their skills would eventually move on to another game anyway.

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18 minutes ago, Sn00 said:

 

Do you mean that they will increase the skill cap as non prem to 30 or do they just get every skill to 30 ? 

 

Every skill to 30. Skill cap to 50. But that was only one possible implementation: not the actual suggestion.

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14 minutes ago, Aeris said:

people who buy their skills don't understand the work that's gone into raising them

 

How do you know that? The impression I get from the account purchases I've personally witnessed (and done) is that the people doing the purchases have figured out exactly the work required, and are willing to pay good money to bypass it.

 

Otherwise, if what you're saying is true, account sales are actually depressed: because the buyers don't fully value what they're buying. If they -did-, they'd be willing to pay even more!

 

Not sure I buy that. ;)

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33 minutes ago, Votip said:

no no no

Selling and buying accounts is one of the wurmish economy problem

 

Think of it as buying the game: with the weight of the cost up-front, and going to the developers. Consider also that if someone "buys the game" this way, and then leaves, they've contributed far more than someone who uses the 2 silver option and then leaves.

 

Additionally, any kind of account sale from the shop will tend to devalue the current player account-selling economy, while benefiting the developers.

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Is this a WU mod?

Love it +10..

 

for wo.. nope..

bye o7

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44 minutes ago, Shrimpiie said:

Horrid idea.

 

Why is it horrid?

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1 hour ago, Votip said:

Selling and buying accounts is one of the wurmish economy problem

1

 

Yeah, but this is already occurring all the time.

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I agree with Aeris on the appreciation of the game aspect, as well as that players who buy accounts (especially players newer to the game) have a different focus on game play. Obviously they don't want to earn their skills by playing the game but rather to use these advanced skills to achieve specific results. This is not really the game design at all which is a slow and tedious building of skills to a higher level but rather a way to bypass all this perhaps years of work through the purchase of developed skill accounts. If this were the intent of the game the Devs would simply boost up skill level gains to any speed that they desired, as can be seen on some of those WU servers.

 

Even the deal you propose in your OP is a bad one for the game's income since currently to raise skills above 20.00 players must pay for Premium time. On that basis it makes no sense at all. Why should players pay for any Premium time up to 50.00 skill level then. You are already also including an instant advancement to 30.00 Characteristics and Skills in this deal too. Hitting 30.00 in Characteristics takes much longer than Skills in comparison, so it just shortcuts that advancement significantly as well, all at the loss of income that would otherwise need to be paid for Premium time to get there.

 

Perhaps you should consider that it may not be a "mistake" that the game is designed so that players will slowly progress in it by building their Characteristic and Skill levels to then enable them to accomplish more within it. Try to think of it as being intended and that these account sales on the forums were *not* really part of the process but just an unfortunate consequence of a situation that would be significantly problematical to control. If this were the case, as it does seem to be, then the game would never participate directly in the sales of developed accounts since it goes contrary to the game design of slowly developing your own Character. This is where I think those who purchase other players Characters are missing the point of the game design because for whatever reasons they wish to avoid putting all this time/work into the game. For the game to directly participate in this *Character Purchase* aspect as you suggest would just show that they had abandoned their standards for some dollars and short changed their players who had developed their own Characters according to the game design.

 

Tldr? Read it then!

 

=Ayes=

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3 hours ago, Roccandil said:

The current premium system regularly provides players with a gut check: do I really want to pay to keep playing?

This is twice you use this exact wording. This more sounds like the struggle you're going through right now.  You don't want to continue to pay for a game you play.

 

As far as the idea, no. Easy mode kills games. Next we'll get achievements for walking 4 feet just so everyone gets their participation trophy. No thank you. This game does not need to be dumbed down. It would detract from the work everyone has put in for over a decade of game play.

If people do not want to pay monthly or have minimal starting skill levels, this is what WU is for and is done in WU easily.

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After first reading the OP idea it was a straight up NO. but after reading the comments and reflection I say a big NO for freedom players, BUT a yes for epic. And here's why.. 

    People who play on epic are very competitive I think we can all agree on. And it is a fact that account buying and selling is tolerated. Also it's impossible to compete on epic just starting out with a fresh account. Because they are already playing with people who are buying highly skilled accounts. So in a nutshell epic is already pay to win. If you believe me, think about the owner of the account Dadd selling their account and the insanity and bid war that would cause. 

    So my conclusion is, epic is already pay to win, might as well allow paying for skill. It's already happening. 

    Related to this is the downhill spiral of freedom players directly caused by buying and selling of accounts. 

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2 hours ago, Seriphina said:

This is twice you use this exact wording. This more sounds like the struggle you're going through right now.  You don't want to continue to pay for a game you play.

 

Already re-upped. For a year. :P

 

2 hours ago, Seriphina said:

As far as the idea, no. Easy mode kills games. Next we'll get achievements for walking 4 feet just so everyone gets their participation trophy. No thank you. This game does not need to be dumbed down. It would detract from the work everyone has put in for over a decade of game play.

If people do not want to pay monthly or have minimal starting skill levels, this is what WU is for and is done in WU easily. 

 

Easy mode? Detract from work put in? Do it on Epic; leave Freedom as-is.

 

3 hours ago, Ayes said:

Even the deal you propose in your OP is a bad one for the game's income since currently to raise skills above 20.00 players must pay for Premium time. On that basis it makes no sense at all. Why should players pay for any Premium time up to 50.00 skill level then.

 

Why should players pay to keep playing after their 1-month 2s prem runs out? Wurm is needy: it basically says, to really play without wasting your time, you've got to pay up, and if you pay up, you better be only playing me to get your money's worth.

 

That loses you players.

 

On the other hand, giving players the option of paying a decent amount of money for a decent start isn't anything new, the only difference is that the sale benefits the developers directly. Also, the skill cap increase means players don't feel like they have to stop playing if prem runs out.

 

Bottom line: a player still in Wurm is more likely to spend money on Wurm than one who isn't. The existing system pushes people who might otherwise play out the door.

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This is a -1 from me, for all aspects, if something needs to be done for Epic I still don't believe it should be a "pay to win" fixed by "pay someone else to win".

Something along the lines of huge stat losses upon death (% of skill, so higher skills risk more by fighting), would help somewhat to bring some balance. 

But of course the current elite would never support a fix/update which diminishes their current power status.

 

The only ideas I get sparked from this thread which I could somewhat agree to would be paying a 1 time (maybe hefty) fee to increase cap from 20 for non-prem.

For those who can't afford to stay prem, or play sporadically. Say £20 per 10 level increase on the cap, upto 70. (For all characters on the account). Total would be £100 to increase personal cap, but would also be something people can buy 1 step at a time (say when they get their skills up and see how far they want to go/play).

 

If there is a real desire for buying stats, one could consider a "unique" item which can be bought from the store (non-tradeable) which allows the player to select one skill to increase to 70.

However, I would be against the idea as it is really pay-to-win, but at the same time, would prefer that money go to the devs, whereas today I can buy silver from a player and grind 70 in most skills pretty easily with pizza. (Somewhat pay to win). 

 

An alternative could be to allow players to "buy" Affinity Ranks, with rank 2 and 3 becoming more and more expensive. 

Or perhaps have an item which can be found and used in game to select an affinity (Tome of Knowledge or something?)

 

How to address the issues that new players face on Epic should not be a pay to win solution. If that is all this suggestion has going for it then its a big -1 from me. 

 

Anyhow, I got sidetracked with other ideas, sorry...

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21 minutes ago, Vaelir said:

But of course the current elite would never support a fix/update which diminishes their current power status.

 

Yes, I'm getting that impression from the other responses in this thread. :P

 

21 minutes ago, Vaelir said:

How to address the issues that new players face on Epic should not be a pay to win solution. 

 

It isn't pay to win: it's pay to catch up. It would be pay to win if it were a brand-new server with everyone otherwise at level 1. At that point, sure, paying for skills would be both bad, and unnecessary.

 

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You can catch up.. the game constantly gets new ways to boost your progression, priests have reached higher channeling and offer better enchants - even cheaper than what old guys/girls used to pay to get where they are.

New mechanics further boost your skillgains, you get to find or acquire cheaper imbue potions, and so on.. game have NEVER offered the players the chance to grind any skill this easily. (with some exceptions of changed now legacy mechanics)

You can get one 90 skill within a week or 2 depending how many hours you can spend a day, some do it in a matter of days.

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7 hours ago, Aeris said:

The big problem this game has with account purchases isn't "the economy" (since that's created by the players themselves and would turn to a flaming pile of dog excrement regardless), but that people who buy their skills don't understand the work that's gone into raising them. People that don't understand the time consumption for various tasks and achievements are more likely to suggest new features that ultimately make the game tedious, and sometimes horrible tedium suggestions slither their way into the game. So if enough player started buying accounts that were already skilled then more and more of those types of suggestions that only make sense to people that haven't played for any real amount of time would start getting support in the suggestions forum. The end result of that would be that older players would become alienated, new players with regular non-skilled accounts would become deterred and the type of people who want to buy their skills would eventually move on to another game anyway.

 

Well said.  

 

TL:DR the below:  -1 to the OP suggestion.

 

Another perspective is also relevant:  People who have been playing the game with a goal to, for example, achieve 100 in a certain skill, to be able to harvest resources of such a high level on a consistent basis, in order to use the resources to imp things for other people or to sell to other people, wake up one day to find that imbues and runes allow other people to instantly gain access to the higher resources without the grind.  Imagine the slow-burning fury of these people who spent months of premium playtime to grind a certain skill...because some other people did not want to do the same and suggested ways to quickly gain access to these higher qualities of resources.  

 

Whether the argument is that people who buy high-level skill packages gain access to skills they have no appreciation for, and thus ask for more tedium and grinding to be introduced to the disadvantage of the people who gain their skills via grinding the old fashion way, or whether the argument is that people who buy high-level skill packages gain skills they should not have access to thus unfairly influencing the people who grinded for a long period of time to be able to gain access to those skills...the outcome is the same:  The pay to win style would imbalance the game in a negative way.

 

All of that being said, since we already have runes and imbues which permanently increases the ql of the materials harvested, we can just as well sell tokens through the shop to actually allow chars to have a high-level skill for either a limited amount of uses, a limited amount of time, or forever.   Thinking about this idea a bit further:  If the shop sells a token to instantly give high-level harvesting skills (e.g. botanize, woodcut, farming) it would be less detrimental than if there are tokens for creation skills (making dye, cooking meals, carpentry, weaponsmithing etc.)

Edited by Fairyshine

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1 hour ago, Vaelir said:

But of course the current elite would never support a fix/update which diminishes their current power status.

A fair number of players have played and paid to play this game for 8-12 years on their main account. They have not purchased these accounts but have worked for all these skills themselves. This time and money involvement equals in effect Characters that have *earned* whatever benefits that these skills and experiences provide. Why should these earned Skills and the opportunities that they provide be taken away from them? Why would they want to voluntarily want to give them up? Why should newer players be provided with some types of shortcuts to these ends? This is not rational thinking but rather wanting the fast road regardless of what efforts others have put forth before their arrival.

 

The game reflects real life outside of it in respect to earning things and growing character over time to advance in whatever path the individual chooses to pursue. Not really hard to grasp this basic concept yet strangely some newer players discard it in their envy of those who have progressed much farther than them. Perhaps they will never "catch up" but that is the advantage that earning something over a longer period of time provides. Even then some newer players will circumvent this whole learning process by purchasing highly skilled accounts and then speak as if they know what the game is all about. I dare say that they have skipped over the heart of it and then attempt to change it to fit their minimal experience. Yes indeed, a sad story, for them anyway.

 

=Ayes=

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3 hours ago, Retrograde said:

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200w.webp?cid=3640f6095c7c5e0b4766555173

jjdqSsb.gif

 

 

 

Almost got it, but it's "Yeah, yeah, yeah!" :)

 

 

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And exactly how would Codeclub survive on your suggested new way?

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