Maiev

Replace global cast on journal

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15 minutes ago, Jaz said:

Also if for some reason the decision would be to keep the goal it would be a bit of relief if the goal were set to all toons that already had a global cast (can be retrieved from Niarja; that is a "third party" app I know). I strongly support the change the goal though...

 

Additionally, or alternatively, there was the idea floating around (Don't remember from who, sorry) that all linked priests get the goal, too. Reframe it to "Participate in a global cast". I think that's the bare minimum that should be done to actually encourage some cooperation with this, otherwise it's just squabbling who gets to do it even among the group doing it...

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On 3/4/2019 at 3:51 AM, Flubb said:

I was actually thinking about starting a list on Xanadu. Maybe get Sermons going in my hub with prayer spam to get the diety favor filled. But I'm still rather far away personally from needing to complete the Global cast so I was honestly biding my time, because it feels like a futile endeavour to try and get people to line up for a reward like +5 cast power.

 

You go get that going & someone will keep track and jump ahead in line. Or you'll have 2 sermon groups doing the exact same thing so it'll be a rush to get it cast once it's available... or you'll have some random guy with linked priests sniping it for the lulz.

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On 3/5/2019 at 10:09 AM, Flubb said:

there was the idea floating around (Don't remember from who, sorry) that all linked priests get the goal, too.

Still doesn't solve some issues.

1. Libila cannot do her rite on Freedom. This honestly is such a major oversight that the more I think on it, the more let down I am by this goal, which is in an otherwise perfect journal.

2. Doesn't also solve another issue I've had, which is the disadvantage you'd be at for choosing a non-standard priest. When was the last time you saw a Smeagain, Nathan or Gary priest on Freedom? They're far and few between, with even less followers. I don't think a good goal should be made easier by switching to another god.

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Not to sound overly defensive over criticism that I actually agree with, but if it seemed like I don't support changing the goal I may have miscommunicated that. Of course this goal is a trashcan fire all around and ideally needs to go. I'm just trying to work with with the cards we're dealt, or sharing my thoughts about how to go about that. :P

I'm biding my time and hope this discussion doesn't land of deaf ears once again. It's not like I'm in a hurry to finish this goal, with 70 prayer to reach first...(That one I'm okay with. It's long and arduous but it has all the right criteria for a personal goal.)

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1 minute ago, Flubb said:

It's not like I'm in a hurry to finish this goal, with 70 prayer to reach first...(That one I'm okay with. It's long and arduous but it has all the right criteria for a personal goal.)

Which is another issue I have. This goal doesn't fit the criteria or standards the ones before it fills. This goal could technically be done right as you hit 50 faith, granted you have some basic channeling and people to link to. This isn't a good long term goal either, or a good goal at all. There are numerous issues, like I said in my previous post.

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18 minutes ago, Madnath said:

Still doesn't solve some issues.

1. Libila cannot do her rite on Freedom. This honestly is such a major oversight that the more I think on it, the more let down I am by this goal, which is in an otherwise perfect journal.

2. Doesn't also solve another issue I've had, which is the disadvantage you'd be at for choosing a non-standard priest. When was the last time you saw a Smeagain, Nathan or Gary priest on Freedom? They're far and few between, with even less followers. I don't think a good goal should be made easier by switching to another god.

It's not even just Lib that cant do the rite on freedom. All Lib template priests(Tosiek, Nathan, Gary) have the Rite of Death too. So 4/10 of the priests can't even do the goal on Freedom.

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In an update due out soon we'll be adjusting the rite of death spell for freedom so it can be cast. 

 

We'll also be adjusting the goal to be part of a cast, meaning being linked to the caster at the time of casting will complete it. 

 

We'll monitor how this goes and adjust if necessary. 

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2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

In an update due out soon we'll be adjusting the rite of death spell for freedom so it can be cast. 

 

We'll also be adjusting the goal to be part of a cast, meaning being linked to the caster at the time of casting will complete it. 

 

We'll monitor how this goes and adjust if necessary. 

I still think this is logisticly very stupid thing to ask from players. Looking for when pool is ready with no indication when it will be ready, communicating with all players over the servers that want to do it(public versus private unique drama all over again). Being at right place at right time(with alt that is premmed just for enchanting bunch of stuff ocassionally or when i really have lot of spare time to grind main and priest at the same time) instead of dedicating time and effort to do something is so shitty model of rewarding players in this game.

Sure i might get lucky to do it now but sure for hell still wouldn't feel happy about myself that did it, no feeling of pride, accomplishment, it will be just another bad memory about Wurm that i wanna wash of myself under the shower when i do it.

Would rather have it just replaced with some better goal that is more solo play oriented and more time consuming instead.

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1 hour ago, kochinac said:

I still think this is logisticly very stupid thing to ask from players. Looking for when pool is ready with no indication when it will be ready, communicating with all players over the servers that want to do it(public versus private unique drama all over again). Being at right place at right time(with alt that is premmed just for enchanting bunch of stuff ocassionally or when i really have lot of spare time to grind main and priest at the same time) instead of dedicating time and effort to do something is so shitty model of rewarding players in this game.

Sure i might get lucky to do it now but sure for hell still wouldn't feel happy about myself that did it, no feeling of pride, accomplishment, it will be just another bad memory about Wurm that i wanna wash of myself under the shower when i do it.

 Would rather have it just replaced with some better goal that is more solo play oriented and more time consuming instead.

Sermons tell you when it's close/ready

 

These arent goals to just farm out, but designed to expand your play, requiring community interaction is not a negative thing, but something that wurm does not always encourage enough. It's not something you HAVE to have either, if you wish to continue as you always have that's more than possible, if you wish to have the bonuses from completing high end tasks, then there will be work involved. 

 

Think of the pride and accomplishment being working with your community rather than grinding something out solo, completing tasks as a group should be a celebration of teamwork, not a disappointment of not being able to do it without anyone else involved. 

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not the sense of pride and accomplisment

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6 hours ago, Retrograde said:

In an update due out soon we'll be adjusting the rite of death spell for freedom so it can be cast. 

 

We'll also be adjusting the goal to be part of a cast, meaning being linked to the caster at the time of casting will complete it. 

 

We'll monitor how this goes and adjust if necessary. 

On 3/4/2019 at 10:00 AM, Nordlys said:

It has to be replaced by something you dont have to compete with others on. Yes, its competing, not cooperating. This is how i see it just another way of splitting the freedom community, instead of bringing it together. Atleast the community seems to come together and agree that its a stupid goal, and should not be there.

 

Either completely change how rites work.

Or replace the goal with something that can be completed in cooperation, but not have to be.

 

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2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Think of the pride and accomplishment being working with your community rather than grinding something out solo, completing tasks as a group should be a celebration of teamwork, not a disappointment of not being able to do it without anyone else involved. 

 

On 3/4/2019 at 10:00 AM, Nordlys said:

It has to be replaced by something you dont have to compete with others on. Yes, its competing, not cooperating. This is how i see it just another way of splitting the freedom community, instead of bringing it together. Atleast the community seems to come together and agree that its a stupid goal, and should not be there.

 

Either completely change how rites work.

Or replace the goal with something that can be completed in cooperation, but not have to be.

 

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People who have 100 faith priests don't often do sermons, so they always just log in to find out that the global spell has been cast already. Which is whatever, but when it comes to the Journal it's ridiculous to try to include a feature that has proved itself again and again to not actually bring people together but rather divide them. And it's not like the entire game is filled with buttmunchers, but all it takes is one persistent buttmuncher to ruin the idea of cooperation for everyone. So people should be reliant on a highly volatile feature where one person can ruin it all, in order to complete a goal in a Journal that for the most part is filled with personal tasks that give people something to do when they're bored? I don't buy it: It seems more like just trying to push a feature that hasn't been used for years on some servers, just to make it seem valid.

 

If you truly want to encourage interactions between players (which should btw be a choice, not a mandatory playing style) you could instead start with getting rid of disease.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Sermons tell you when it's close/ready

Because i have nothing better to do on my limited play time than to attend sermons with 100 faith priest? Sermons are very dumb mechanic btw, one of the most stupid things in game. And how exactly i can see it by sermons, by message of sermon?

 

3 hours ago, Retrograde said:

These arent goals to just farm out, but designed to expand your play, requiring community interaction is not a negative thing, but something that wurm does not always encourage enough. It's not something you HAVE to have either, if you wish to continue as you always have that's more than possible, if you wish to have the bonuses from completing high end tasks, then there will be work involved.

The way it is now its a very bad thing. Also why shouldn't i have it? You want to punish me for not wanting to be social all the time? For not playing priest 24/7? Why dont i have to have in terrible system that enchanting is?

And beside most of us have jobs and can afford playing only 1-2h daily. We can't instantly just log in when there is rare oportunity to do it and nobody is going to wait us for 6+ hours just so we can link. 

What community interaction? Be in the right place in the right time. Find the right people link for couple of minutes and never think about it again, ridiculous, don't make me laugh. Rifts and uniques are a joke how available it is comparing to this.

P.S. The way i see it now do to this is to send 100 faith priest to afk 24/7 and grind praying and to hope i will not be at work or afk when time comes for linking? I can do that but If that is what i'm paying premium time i might reconsider and don't give me you don't have to have it bulshit.

Edited by kochinac

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3 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Think of the pride and accomplishment being working with your community rather than grinding something out solo, completing tasks as a group should be a celebration of teamwork, not a disappointment of not being able to do it without anyone else involved. 

 

Retro, you're missing the point. Most people aren't against a teamwork goal, in principle. The problem is even if you get a team together, pray hard, and plan a massive linking session well in advance, you ultimately have no control over the favour pool, which anyone can tap into and drain as soon as it is full. Regardless of whether they will drain it or not, the fact that they can is incredibly frustrating and discouraging and really, really not fun. It's like building a house of cards with a toddler sitting on the table. Your success is as much a function of your effort as it is the toddler's whims. As a side note, there are many reasons why someone might drain the pool out from under your nose with no malicious intent (no involvement on forums, lone players with battery alts, no/little English ability, etc.).

 

To understand just how bad the design of this goal is, take the following analogy: Your goal is go on a trip around the world with a group of friends. The only way to do this (for some bizarre reason) is to use a publicly owned bank account (whaaat? but OK ...). Any member of the public can pay money into the account, and anyone can take money out but only when there's exactly enough to cover the cost of a round-the-world trip. So far, so stupid, right? Well, this is how the revised version of the rite goal works in a nutshell. It's such a strangely unjust arrangement. And yes, life isn't fair. But most of us wish it were more so and prefer social structures (i.e. games) that represent the best attempt at fairness.

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Given there's 7 freedom servers with 4 different rites per server, we're willing to see how it pans out vs the possibilities in theory. 

 

Like I said, we'll continue to check it out, but don't expect changes off hypotheticals. 

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28 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Like I said, we'll continue to check it out, but don't expect changes off hypotheticals. 

 

31 minutes ago, Gwyn said:

Regardless of whether they will drain it or not, the fact that they can is incredibly frustrating and discouraging and really, really not fun.

 

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30 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Like I said, we'll continue to check it out, but don't expect changes off hypotheticals. 

 

Hypotheticals eh....... 

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15 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Given there's 7 freedom servers with 4 different rites per server, we're willing to see how it pans out vs the possibilities in theory. 

 

Like I said, we'll continue to check it out, but don't expect changes off hypotheticals. 

And how exactly you will check it out? How will you know there need to be adjustments and what possibly can be adjustment. Could you guys just listen to as people that this is bad design for numerous reasons. If anyone is hanging on hypoteticals here its the dev team.

The thing is when this first started and goals where introduced you made huge oversight  that made goal impossible for 4/10 priests. And now, how long has it been (2 months) there was no any public word about it, no public appologie/announcment something like Guys we ###### up, we are sorry, can't fix it now having Indy lag as priority, will come with something, we have these ideas about rites  bla bla. Instead you come here with no shame or humility to tells as that worst possible alternative as fix will be implemented and thats it. To anything else yoy just repeat as a parrot reasons that no one agrees with, looking things just from your perspective and missing the point. Today i am trully disaponted in team and way this was handled.

Whoever want to do it will do it with a bad taste in their mouth and continue with their lives ingame or outside of game. Well done team. Have your fantasy fulfulled and continue asking yourself why people keep leaving this game ;)

I will say it once again, this is very bad game design and terrible requirement for a very cool reward.

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I suppose the next step would be that there's no global diety favor pool, but each priest has their own pool of diety favor along the normal one, still charged by prayers, and perhaps listening to followers and other priestly actions. Then you have to work toward being able to participate yourself, and nobody can take that diety favor away from you. Once you are charged, you still need to find enough other priests who are sufficiently "charged". Sermon messages could instead indicate how much "diety favor" is going around in the circle of listeners.

 

Counter the undoubtedly lowered requirement for diety favor with a 1w cooldown on each spell. You can still be sniped, but you won't have to wait for a reattempt as long as you do now and whoever did the sniping at least properly worked toward being able to cast it just as you have. The snipers would be just as entitled to the cast as you are.

 

Diety favor gains via prayer may also be limited per day to balance it further for the long run, e.g. you gain diety favor as you would faith; this would also encourage 100 faith priests to be a bit more clerical again and go back to their daily prayers. :)

At 100 faith, they should probably get a bit more diety favor for the faith gains they are now missing though, as a token of their gods appreciation for continued devotion. This would also give the high level priests an edge in achieving the goal, who are also probably the ones most likely to actively work toward it.

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1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

Given there's 7 freedom servers with 4 different rites per server, we're willing to see how it pans out vs the possibilities in theory. 

 

Like I said, we'll continue to check it out, but don't expect changes based off of hypotheticals history

 

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

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If dev's are not going to remove it from the journal, then how about upping the favor required to 1000.  All priest linked would get the achievement.  One thousand favor would force the spell to be a community event.

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I still dont see the argument of having a global there, contra not having it there. You guys are clever, find another way to bring people together without the risk of splitting the people.

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I mean............ if it's about bringing people together n' stuff.................................. 

 

Why not change "rite" for "enough sermons to keep you busy for the next 6 months"?

 

Promotes sermalongs (which will need rebranding because it just sounds so horribly wrong for some reason), non-priests could be added to the mix with an "attend sermons" achieve of their own... ya know.. something that's not wide open to loophole-protected griefing for a change?

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2 hours ago, Mordraug said:

I mean............ if it's about bringing people together n' stuff.................................. 

We hold eachother for hands for couple of minutes and never see eachother again, and that will bring us together ;) Oh and we afk sermons in silence for god knows how long

Argument of moving community together is ridiculous. I mean yeah it can be fun to hang around other people and together imp or sermon for fun, but forcing people to do that  for some game breaking reward(like 100 faith or +5 spell power), no thank you. thats terrible idea. If people want company they will organize themself ;)

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