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Maiev

Replace global cast on journal

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6 hours ago, Retrograde said:

but don't expect changes off hypotheticals. 

*gives a journal goal that has a direct market and ability affect*

*doesn't see it's exactly the same logic as uniques*

 

Look at dragons. Look at how they operate, why they work the way they do, why they're still valuable.

Now look at this goal. They're near identical in operation and we're still seeing drama over dragons. The private hunt groups exist, it's not at all any stretch to forsee what will happen given enough time.

 

Oh, and you want the community to come together for it? You pretty much nuked that possibility when rites can be casted from an altar. You don't have that actual need to meet at a designated spot the same way you do for uniques. You can't just create a public event for a rite on the forum without a real significant risk of it being sweeped away under you. Also everyone who prays charges that rite happening, yet most of them won't see the rite done with any consideration for them. Which is understandable, but still in principle ###### terrible.

 

The change is a move in the right direction. Shame it's half a step. I'm glad to hear Hall & Oates decided to provide the theme song for this rite goal though.

Edited by Madnath
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6 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Given there's 7 freedom servers with 4 different rites per server, we're willing to see how it pans out vs the possibilities in theory. 

 

Like I said, we'll continue to check it out, but don't expect changes off hypotheticals. 

Just remove it or make it so Rites work better and can be casted more frequently. The sindusk change really isn't that great for smaller populated servers.

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11 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Think of the pride and accomplishment being working with your community rather than grinding something out solo, completing tasks as a group should be a celebration of teamwork, not a disappointment of not being able to do it without anyone else involved.

 

Except that both the goal and the reward are personal. Now, if you were describing a different community goal tree, with appropriate community-wide rewards, I could see your logic.

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The sad reality is these journals were made with Wurm Unlimited experience in mind by a dev that plays and codes a server there for years instead of playing Wurm Online.  The place where if you look at twitter you can see all the WU servers that can spam out rites like nothing.  It's obvious when journal goals had to be bug fixed because of examples like when it said you could build a bridge solo, which is only possible in WU.

 

I'm all for community events but forced community events just means forced exclusions.  Everyone that sermons or prayers contributes effort towards a rite but not everyone will get to participate.  I don't need anything more than hypotheticals to tell me priests will be left out.  Even large groups will have people in other time zones, working, unable to make it, or the group hates and will not include.  Look at Yellowfinger, I always felt what he did wasn't helpful but I never felt it was banworthy as it didn't break any rules in my eyes.  Now, you give people like that something they can actually steal that will actually legitimately harm everyone else's gameplay, so what's the solution when that happens?  Create more rules to ban more people?  Then what about the priests that already casted the rites when they were harder to get the requirements to cast?  I'm told the rite doesn't count unless it was done after journals were added and the specific tier unlocked, which isn't fair to people either and none of this gives me any encouragement to find out if it's correct or not.  If people that already casted had it count which is easily provable for the entirety of twitter's history in wurm (the last 8? years maybe), it would decrease the amount of exclusions out there.  Considering the 100 faith priests that already casted probably don't want to waste everyone's time sermoning but not helping sermon would mean people won't want to invite those that didn't help, It would be another step in the right direction, but that's like wrapping dog droppings in 1 ply tissues until you are finally comfortable holding it.  I mean odds are my alliance will gather people together to include everyone so I may not have anything to worry about for any of my priests if I want the journal completed, but not everyone has that same opportunity of a big inclusive alliance or even want to be in one at all.  Should they be excluded from the same opportunity?

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6 hours ago, Flubb said:

I suppose the next step would be that there's no global diety favor pool, but each priest has their own pool of diety favor along the normal one, still charged by prayers, and perhaps listening to followers and other priestly actions. Then you have to work toward being able to participate yourself, and nobody can take that diety favor away from you. Once you are charged, you still need to find enough other priests who are sufficiently "charged". Sermon messages could instead indicate how much "diety favor" is going around in the circle of listeners.

 

I like this. It preserves the community requirement for the goal, while making it impossible for anyone to steal your own accomplishment.

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1 hour ago, MrGARY said:

The sad reality is these journals were made with Wurm Unlimited experience in mind by a dev that plays and codes a server there for years instead of playing Wurm Online.  The place where if you look at twitter you can see all the WU servers that can spam out rites like nothing.  It's obvious when journal goals had to be bug fixed because of examples like when it said you could build a bridge solo, which is only possible in WU.

 

My job title covers both WO and WU, so yes while the Journal system was created for WO I also kept WU in mind when designing it to make things possible on both.

 

The short answer to this is as Retro has already said. If we see any sort of evidence of a single person or group taking every global cast despite others attempting it then I'll be looking at a change to limit global casts per character. Currently we haven't seen that since the update for the priest journal. There have only been casts on Indy and Xan and each by different people at this point, there are another 5-10 (depending on how you count it) servers with favor pools, each with pools for 4 gods. There should be plenty of casts to go around (and the journal task even easier to complete with only requiring being linked).

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10 minutes ago, Budda said:

been casts on Indy

Yep, and both casts on indy was the same alliance. There are plenty of priests in that alliance that are ready to go for the next opportunity. :)

 

You are forcing us to compete.

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10 hours ago, Budda said:

 

My job title covers both WO and WU, so yes while the Journal system was created for WO I also kept WU in mind when designing it to make things possible on both.

 

The short answer to this is as Retro has already said. If we see any sort of evidence of a single person or group taking every global cast despite others attempting it then I'll be looking at a change to limit global casts per character. Currently we haven't seen that since the update for the priest journal. There have only been casts on Indy and Xan and each by different people at this point, there are another 5-10 (depending on how you count it) servers with favor pools, each with pools for 4 gods. There should be plenty of casts to go around (and the journal task even easier to complete with only requiring being linked).

And you don't find it a little bit concerning that so far casts have been just on Indy and Xana. What is ability of other servers to fill pools considering their population? How long will it take untill we have single cast on smaller server, half year, year?

It doesn't change the fact that you're forcing us to spend possibly month of our premium to be constantly devoted to be logged in 24/7 and sit in a cave with a bucnh of other people out of our deeds instead doing other fun things like riding, fighting, farming what ever you want to do, and you call that initiative for community to work together or whatever (more like suffer together). FFS am i the only one that sees how dumb this is? Just replace goal with something else, don't try to revive dead horse. And are you heads so up in your asses that you fail to see other perspective than your own? Rites currently are mostly by product of people aiming to get to higher faith by sermons which is somewhat ok, having them as requirement for such gamebreaking reward is NOT OK!

I hate you guys for having to sermon my way to 100 faith twice, i hate my self even more that i put myself for several weeks of such stress. I will hate you for this even more.

Edited by kochinac

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8 hours ago, kochinac said:

FFS am i the only one that sees how dumb this is?

 

We're on page three of a thread exclusively complaining about this.

 

As for the change.

Okay, I'll bite. I'm willing to give it a chance. But here's the question I have for anyone on the team.

What can be said for the issues you face for smaller, less populated servers? Or more importantly, not as commonly used priests and followers, like Lib, Smeagain, and such?

 

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10 hours ago, kochinac said:

am i the only one that sees how dumb this is?

 

No. :)

 

In all fairness, however, the developers seem eager to change the game for the better. I just don't get the impression they truly understand the long-term consequences of what they reward (and punish).

 

This particular case is especially discouraging, because it does seem so obvious. :(

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