Retrograde

New HotA System

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I think you miss a very big point into what the community asked for.

 

Currently hota is a rather small area of the Chaos map that can be farmed by one specific kingdom, I think most people on Chaos/Epic agree that's not how we want it.

We want hota to be an oppertunity to get good fights and reap nice rewards if won. Not a snoozefest that takes around the entire map every single day.

 

With the introduction of this system you solve an issue that the community has had for a very long time, hota is no fun when it's uncontested or owned by one kingdom.

Hota however currently displays a short action packed competition that (if contested) is a lot of fun to take part in.

 

This new system will only be fun and engaging for a few days, but mostly it will serve for people roaming endlessly all across the map searching for a tower for a small piece of MM, is it worth it?

Might have been worth it , if it was fun, but riding around endlessly looking for a specific tower does not sound fun to me and more like a chore. It must have been around 7 to 8 people in my kingdoms discord that agreed with me on that point.

We want something new and something fresh, some engaging activity that does not take away all of our time from the rest of wurm like a 24/7 Hota.

 

This also however does not include "smaller" kingdoms since numbers will way in just as much in this system as the current , it's not possible to completely remove numbers as a factor but we can do better than this.

The entire idea is flawed in concept and serves no posetive outcome , I think it's time for something different

 

 

/ Snoo

Edited by Sn00

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4 minutes ago, Sn00 said:

I think you miss a very big point into what the community asked for.

 

Currently hota is a rather small area of the Chaos map that can be farmed by one specific kingdom, I think most people on Chaos/Epic agree that's not how we want it.

We want hota to be an oppertunity to get good fights and reap nice rewards if won. Not a snoozefest that takes around the entire map every single day.

 

With the introduction of this system you solve an issue that the community has had for a very long time, hota is no fun when it's uncontested or owned by one kingdom.

Hota however currently displays a short action packed competition that (if contested) is a lot of fun to take part in.

 

This new system will only be fun and engaging for a few days, but mostly it will serve for people roaming endlessly all across the map searching for a tower for a small piece of MM, is it worth it?

Might have been worth it , if it was fun but riding around endlessly looking for a specifik tower does not sound fun to me and more like a chore, I must have had around 7 to 8 people in my kingdoms discord agree with me on that point.

We want something new and something fresh, some engaging activity that does not take away all of our time from the rest of wurm like a 24/7 Hota.

 

This also however does not include "smaller" kingdoms since numbers will way in just as much in this system as the current , it's not possible to completely remove numbers as a factor but we can do better than this.

The entire idea is flawed in concept and serves no posetive outcome , I think it's time for something more fresh.

 

 

/ Snoo

The idea of this is to get people roaming and searching for them and not make it an easy event 1 kingdom can complete in just a short time. If you have suggestions please feel free to give them as far as how you would like to see hota work.

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2 minutes ago, Darklords said:

The idea of this is to get people roaming and searching for them and not make it an easy event 1 kingdom can complete in just a short time. If you have suggestions please feel free to give them as far as how you would like to see hota work.

Well then it's simply not worth it, take a look at rifts no one does them because they're half way across the map.

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One issue i see is people will use alts same as they did on EPIC, they find some fairly remote battlecamp, wall it off, drop a mailbox, log off an alt inside the walled off area. Regularly login the alt to check for MM then mail it to main.

 

The collection of the Moonmental needs to be something you cant do on an alt somehow.

 

Also the Hota Statue dropping at a camp seems pretty anonying given its weight.

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8 hours ago, faty said:

So if I get this right.. in a few weeks of spawns every kingdom can have 4 camps of their own, milk the first 3 as much as possible and then cap the 4'th one for the hota statue, then repeat, and never have to interact with the other kingdoms since those are also doing the same in "their" lands ? If the point of the new hota is to make it so that the mm loot not be held by a single kingdom, then i guess that will work but it doesn't really help with creating more pvp.

 

I would like to see a system that would actually make people compete to find and cap battle camps.. and especially go and cap other kingdom's camps.. maybe make it so that when a kingdom caps 4 camps, all the camps on the map disappear or at least turn to neutral again. Also only the kingdom that is the owner of the camp can collect the mm from it, nobody else should be able to.

 

I'm going to try it on the test server and see how it works, and will get back with feedback..

 

 

8 hours ago, williamwierd said:

Just an idea, keep all MM that spawns inside of the camp unmovable. When a kingdom wins, any MM inside their 4 battle camps gets teleported to their capital, along with the hota statue -- or wherever the last conquered battle camp was, if you want to promote the idea that they can be intercepted with these goodies. This encourages people to conquer enemy battlecamps that have been held for awhile, and enemies to defend these battle camps. It'd also help keep away certain forms of alt abuse.

I like both of these suggestions.

 

I supposed you don't have to participate if you don't want to travel across the map. However, you are likely to encounter enemies if you choose to participate, which makes the travel risky and worthwhile, since you can catch enemies away from deeds.

 

Some way to make people travel home with their loots would be nice, but nothing too overbearing (I liked the idea that all the loot would be moved to the most recently captured battle camp, so that you dont have to coordinate 4 routes of loot transport, just 1, but it still gives enemies opportunity for interception and a motivation to go roam for you). I don't like the hota statue + lumps spawning safely at home. I think its good to have it carried back (especially the statue, which is worth some money but will slow you down on your way home. More thought will have to go into how you safely transport it home, and the random locations will prevent a safety net of deeds being built around the zone so that travel home poses a small risk as well)

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as Mclovin pointed out, There definitely needs to be some sort of death message for capping and also something similar to a locate like the message. without that there will never be pvp during a capping.

 

XXX battle camp is being captured, it is far away ahead of you to the left.

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@Darklordsthe camp should spawn guards when capping to stop alt abuse winning hota on what will be stretched out camps.

 

 

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I think this is going towards a good direction. Will have to think about it and play at the test server before I give my feedback. The roaming and searching aspect seems very promising as greed and overconfidence will lead to nice pvp/ambushes. 

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[Feature-1] Possibly add an indication on examining a battle camp: This camp is controlled by : <controlling kingdom> or This battle camp was is neutral. Currently the only way to know which kingdom owns the camp is by the death tabs.

 

[Feature-2] Increase the fireworks pillar height to locate the camp easily. Possibly make it as high as the WL/BL glowing pillar. Locating the camps should not be a search intensive job. If battle camps are not visible especially when in forests, people might resort to other (shady) ways to see them. Nah, getting there first isn't that important, this is only for the last camp if a team has already done the other three and wants to ninja, not that probable.

 

 

[Question-1] What happens if I fill the camp container with 100 piece of an item. Will it be able to spawn moon-metal then since the container will be 100/100 .

 

[Question-2] The camps seem to have random integer damage from 2.0 up to 14.0 noticed so far. Normal ?

 

[Question-3] What happens if there are items inside the container of the camp when the 4/4 gets captured and the camp evaporates ? Could this cause trouble with certain items that should not be destroyable ? Will they drop on ground ? Yes they do.

 

[Bug-1] Once you capture 4/4 of the camps, the camps go away, but the beacon firework stay. I don't know if this is intended, but it can get confusing when trying to determine if the event is over.

Edited by Lordbeerus

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The sparkles atm are just for testing.

I however think the sparkles should remain, or some sort of HOTA PILLAR light could spawn under it, because I think this will help in finding the camps in which will boost PVP by a long shot.

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I agree on the sparkles. If it's not easily visible, client hackers will be the only ones that will get there.

 

Now a more serious issue I've seen so far and others have also mentioned:

 

People will use alts to safely check for the moon metals periodically. We definitely need to add guards. About six of them should be enough for even the strongest alt out there. But alts can still run past them, grab the loot and run away. So the loot should be accessible through some delaying mechanism. Either lock the container with a low quality lock, or make it work as the token drain: You click on the tower, select salvage and after 60 seconds you either get the contents or get nothing.

 

Edited by Lordbeerus

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another option i thought about for a visual indication of the camp is near is maybe put some border around the 40x40 area it similar to the hots challenge ring. Plus some sort of glow that shows above trees, if you are close < 200 tiles.

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The fences is a very tricky situation. It can help those determined to farm the camp for one or two days, work hard to secure their investment against vultures but on the other hand it can help opposing kingdoms sabotage each other easily. Once kingdom A moves from camp 3 to 4 to do the 4/4 , kingdom B can go to 3, break in their fences, cap it, place their own fences and go away. Do they have enough time to do that ? Maybe ? Will they bother ? Who knows.

 

Difficult to assess if the construction in the camp is a good or bad thing, only time will tell.  

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Had lapse of thought, disregard.

Edited by Bloodscythe

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FBI: You better edit that Sentence.


Now the Hota camp fence situation, could be realllly interesting tbh. Imagine 2-3 people stay back to CAMP and DEFEND the hota camp whilst the crew go search for the other camps?
Then Another Kingdom Shows up to take it, bro, you only need a huge axe to start tearing down gates or even better, a catapault to knock down 3 wide, 
the point is, the 2-3 man crew could hold off against a 5-10 man crew looking for a easy cap, until Backup arrives and if it doesn't, then your 2-3 man crew will be forced to either get out or stand ground and keep trying, via hopping and battles.

If a 10 man crew shows up, you HVAE To leave lol, it wont be interesting. I say let's get a 10 man group this week and actually have 2-3 defend a camp vs 7 attack

But I do think once a camp vanishes, the fences really need to be poofed or have accelerated damage to stop the spam.

I think fences Could be good, but this needs to really be played with.

One thing I am strong about is the guards and alts situation. We really need guards at these places or it'll just be about alts capping x back in dangerous lands. Not fun. 

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8 hours ago, Mclavin said:

FBI: You better edit that Sentence.


Now the Hota camp fence situation, could be realllly interesting tbh. Imagine 2-3 people stay back to CAMP and DEFEND the hota camp whilst the crew go search for the other camps?
Then Another Kingdom Shows up to take it, bro, you only need a huge axe to start tearing down gates or even better, a catapault to knock down 3 wide, 
the point is, the 2-3 man crew could hold off against a 5-10 man crew looking for a easy cap, until Backup arrives and if it doesn't, then your 2-3 man crew will be forced to either get out or stand ground and keep trying, via hopping and battles.

If a 10 man crew shows up, you HVAE To leave lol, it wont be interesting. I say let's get a 10 man group this week and actually have 2-3 defend a camp vs 7 attack

But I do think once a camp vanishes, the fences really need to be poofed or have accelerated damage to stop the spam.

I think fences Could be good, but this needs to really be played with.

One thing I am strong about is the guards and alts situation. We really need guards at these places or it'll just be about alts capping x back in dangerous lands. Not fun. 

 

Thats ok but imagine how ppl are really going to do it it will be gates on gates on gates. if someone follows past while trying to kill someone as they are low on life next minute they are stuck in a gate teleporting until they relog. most likely dying.

 

make it simple none of this buggy crap.

 

if you rode in for pvp and then someone has built gates plus a 40 slope wall gate 40 slope wall on every tile  are you actually going to attempt to fight or just say ###### this im out and ride off.. cause i know i would

 

would prevent pvp imo.

 

there should be no "safe zone"  for people to hide no advantage its essentially king of the hill on these camps  the whole point is for them to go back of forth.

 

NO BUILD / NO TERAFORM / NO SAFE ZONE

 

make pvp great again

 

 

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The flip side is, if you're left holding a camp with just a few and 5-6 come are you going to stick around? 

Maybe, the build zone itself could be a lot smaller? Instead of having a 40 x 40 build zone literally make it a 5 x 5 build zone. 
I get why they want it and I think it could be good for fights to develop but as you point out it risks being extreme. 

Edited by Mclavin

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end up being scared of gates more then i do  PVP

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Been riding around the test server, 100% needs to keep the sparkles in. I'm not going on a camp search all over chaos lmao, will be cancer, this won't help pvp.
Hota is literally currently a zone, where we all know where to go. We all know where the fights will be if we want it - Searching for randomly placed camps with no clue as to where, hellllll no.

Below is a gif: This map is pretttty average for flatness and mountains, unlike Chaos. I do feel there will be a good balance between searching and knowing.

https://i.gyazo.com/762bfc3b6b6d8b07b8dedc5a6fab0a81.mp4

You'll have to open the link. 


KEEP THE SPARKLES

5d1317d0c3dc2390dd977318bb4377e1.jpg

 

 

49732e2ad5d3ee5f857a38d47d77d2ab.jpg

 

1d83d0d0a27c19ebb8a1fd221daeb020.png

b4d93edfa5e70051a7d3b081d5248218.png

 

This is without trees!

Edited by Mclavin

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THIS NEEDS TO BE LIMITED TO 6 SPAWNS OF BATTLECAMPS MAX.

 

If you endlessly keep spawning camps, then you're basically giving us Epic random chests, find 4 to win whilst another 4 somewhere else are ready to be capped anyway.
Surely the idea of Hota, was to cap 4 pillars to win, infact we got mad that more than 4 would spawn so any Contest over a pillar was pointless.

This system needs a limit. I suggest 6 camps max on the map at anytime with 4 to win.

So for me, idk if others agree.

1. Area where you can Build needs to be 5 x 5 with the 40 x 40 no build around it.
2. Camps need to spawn guards upon capping to stop alt abuse.
3. Camps need to keep their sparkles cause this is going to be cancer on chaos. 
4. There shouldn't be an infinite spawn of camps, even if the others get damaged. Cap it to 6 with damage on those forcing those holding 3 each to make a push before camp vanishes.
    The damage itself should be 25 a day, 2 a day is too low. 
5. There needs to be some kind of requirement to stop alts taking the MM out and sending it via post box to avoid traps/ambushes as mentioned.  

    I think williams idea was good.

 

Quote
  21 hours ago, williamwierd said:

Just an idea, keep all MM that spawns inside of the camp unmovable. When a kingdom wins, any MM inside their 4 battle camps gets teleported to their capital, along with the hota statue -- or wherever the last conquered battle camp was, if you want to promote the idea that they can be intercepted with these goodies. This encourages people to conquer enemy battlecamps that have been held for awhile, and enemies to defend these battle camps. It'd also help keep away certain forms of alt abuse.

 

Edited by Mclavin

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I like the ideas posted, first off guards is a must cause of the alts and also a smaller area that you can build fences in, be horrible with 500 million gates to pass through.

And as Mclovin said limit the spawns so you actually have to fight/cap from another kingdom in order to win it, kinda pointless with a bunch of camps where you dont have to fight the enemies to win...

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Would it be an idea to reduce the map size for Elevation in order to make this mechanic more viable?

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Here are the changes that I just put live on the baphomet test server. Guards and changing the way you collect metal from the battle camps are next on the list, keep the feedback coming and if there is anything I can do to help make testing a bit easier let me know.

  • Battle camps now take 10 damage each time a new one is spawned, capping them at 10 on the map at any time.
  • Battle camps now display what area of the map they spawned at(Battle Camp Archer has appeared in the center regions).
  • Lurker in the dark will now display a nearby battle camp along with a creature.
  • Camp owners can now only build fences/dig within the 5 tile edit zone in any direction from the battle camp, the other zone tiles in each direction will now remain locked even to the camps owners.
  • All fences within the 5x5 edit zone around the battle camp will be destroyed when the camp leaves, even fences that existed before it spawned in.
  • Only gates within the 5x5 edit zone will remain locked, any outside the edit zone will unlock like normal when enemy's are near.

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Can I ask why 10, two kingdoms can avoid each other and not bother contesting for wins knowing more will spawn if location sucks for them. 

 

As you are a hota player, you know how much it sucked to be standing if holding a pillar just for them to go cap a different one to win, it was one of the biggest peeves.

 

The other changes look good I think it's a nice middle ground with the camp giving a hint where it is. 

 

 

 

 

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