Finnn

Alliance teleport (call it however you want..)

Recommended Posts

After thought on it, fixed place teleportation is a good notion, but it needs a cost.  It's also "free magic", and I'd say rely on priests/source to charge it.

 

1 summon soul = 1 charge

1KG source = 1 charge

 

Gate QL determines max charges.

 

+1 with those changes.  (But overall -1)

Edited by Etherdrifter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

After thought on it, fixed place teleportation is a good notion, but it needs a cost.

 

Indeed. I disagree with the gatekeepers here protecting "the real wurm" mostly but without some cost it may truly make other structures obsolete. That's not an argument against all sorts of teleportation though. Ideally teleports only cut away that which is not bearable or reasonable to do in a single play session, and nothing else. That's why I for instance liked the idea of starter town portals on Xanadu (which is arguably the only server that needs it this badly.).

Even if those were free, they are in fixed locations that barely cover all the bases, so from your portal destination on you will still have to rely on roads, bridges, perhaps even buy a horse locally or rent a taxi - that way portals can even help commerce and usage of existing transporation structures, and I feel like that's an angle that's not seen by the hardline naysayers. It's simply a matter of weighing some inconvenience or cost against relying on teleportation for everything. Getting the balance right is not very simple when people can build their own portals though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ShmericI agree it's a good argument, because it compares freedom to choose from variety of possibilities to get somewhere, compared to being forced to take the only alternative and needlessly spend some irl time pressing WASD-a, skipping all the mob kills, fs, loot,.. just because you want to get to some place on the same day.. and actually get something done there.. maybe return back after? 10-20minutes, on a cart travel is never that fast..

And yes.. with teleporting - you still need to rely on roads to get somewhere, you can have the luxury to get from A to B but your destination wont always be the B point .. could be B1, B2, next local or 2.. from it, this doesnt kill road system.

The other part.. you can travel from a market place to marketplace 'in an instant' letting you see more merchants and items and pick from bigger variety, did markets die because mailboxes could take most of the bigger items with rune attached to it? nope..

 

@Etherdrifterthis is no magic kiddo, it's science, takes a lot of skills to be even able to start/work on it, could place 20 runes on it to make it work. There's no magic here.

1s per travel is expensive as ....

That's one way to throw the idea into the ditch and bury something good. Priests already have teleportation spell that is super OP.. gm-power.. teleports people to priest's location, you can charge last second dumbasses who are late to a unique slaying.. and that's how ideas are born(somebody go steal this market..)

 

"Teleportation stone" have nothing to do with magic, and right now magic users can do 90-98% of what non-priests can (yes you can make some items at ql90-95+ at creation if you had the skill and materials, no need to improve to make and sell such as a priest on top of having other unique abilities;
Putting any magic on this item/mechanic is a double-dip on teleportation for priests.

 

Having several high skills to start/work on it slightly limits the builders able to create these, but that isn't that high barrier.

initially the moonmetal was the cornerstone limiting who's 'sane' enough to sacrifice some wealth on such item, if 5kg is nothing.. could be raised to 15kg, that SIGNIFICANTLY lowers the amount of people able to afford it. End game item than..

Ondeed structure could be indestructible.. offdeed 1-2months decay no matter of the ql, to keep them not so common even if deeds having them disband and a random valuable resource just hangs around... that will keep the moonmetal sinking need for next settlers around the same parts of the map if they want to make one later.

 

ps. I dont really care if this gets into the game, it's just an idea that I came up randomly reading some other thread few days/week ago, idea had nothing to do with what I read but.. seemed like the game could use some improvement, and this came up in 5mins. If the community likes it - adopt it, if not.. plenty of other ideas didn't make it into the game, this one can jump on that boat easily.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You do realise that you'll just see micro deeds with teleporters pop up.

 

5 years upkeep dumped into them.

 

Bam.  Eternal tp network at no cost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Etherdrifter...you realize that you get free favor by doing nothing and you can teleport people around as a priest any time, right? At no cost, that's a free teleport, no cost, just be premium and do whatever you do, and casually monetize with an extra unique ability.

Do you really mind if somebody spends several hundreds of euros to create and protect such feature if all that money just sinks into CC's pocket? It's just backing the future updates and life of the game, or next version, whatever, we're going too far with this.

Game investments are people's decision to make, there will be hobos, there will be whales, playstyles and abilities to spend and enjoy the game differently.

 

Why is the slightly "complex" simplicity so hard to understand😬

How is this different if it costs something significant to have it? It's close to the value of wagoners, with the exception.. that moonmetal can be slowly or costly gained in bits without spending money but could as easily be turned into "liquid" currency ingame or IRL.

The item have a cost, how significant.. argue about that with the devs if it even gets to that point.

It's a good way to sink and remove MM from the market so the remaining goes up on price and value, but by no means limits the amount that will remain on the market, you need just a few of these at key points on the map, after that.. it's stupid to keep making new if it takes a few locals or tiles to move from one to another, at that point the cost to make it will trigger a sanity check ... if you really want to dump something valuable and useful into unmovable item that you wont use that much.

This is also called 'alliance' not 'personal' for a reason.. only a small % of the people are supposed to have it.. bigger deeds/alliances/markets/starting towns; average deeds aren't supposed to just have it without a sacrifice, it's like seeing a wagoner or a trader and realizing what that have cost somebody to get it.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, here is a nice challenge for you.  For the next month, do not imp a single item, and do not cut down a single tree.  You are not allowed to do these things, or you CANNOT teleport.  Whenever someone needs a teleport, you log into their character, and ride them to the location they want to go to.

 

Welcome to "free" teleportation.

 

The trouble is, you're being a bit short sighted.

 

No matter how high the cost, players will be determined to make one of these, and they will spring up all over the map rather faster than you anticipate.  And, once they are up, they will be up forever.  Free movement to that location, if a deed with one drops, someone will quickly deed over it if it is well used.  These will endure, forever, 0 maintenence.

 

Forever is a long time.

 

If you add in a component of maintenence, you suddenly render a lot of teleports one way unless someone actively maintains them.  The suggestion that it require either magic or source means that it needs to be a mid-late tier character performing the maintenence, and it requires some degree of activity; rather than "sink 12 silver into it and forget for a year".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 to teleporting between starter towns and markets, +1 to building difficult and resource intensive gate to teleport to starter towns and markets and port back, -1 to teleporting inbetween alliance deeds. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Maievwhy?

What's wrong with friends/groups that play together to.. play together? 🤔

You want people to move to markets only? I'm just curious, why crippling the main feature of the suggestion?
Core idea for me behind this was to get people together, but your comment says: "no gather at markets, and lag-along"(you can probably remember some where you don't want to hang around on a low-end pc)
Sure people will want to buy things, but you do not buy things every day, and whole purpose of WO is to be online and play with other or at least chat.. but.. that part strips a big portion of the ppl interaction, I just wonder why??

 

@ether stop derailing, it's not magic thread, it's other end of a scale balancing a feature, comes at a cost, and it has a completely different usage; 
chill with the derails, be objective if you want to add something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeh, no use arguing with a brick wall.

 

-1 from me.

 

This idea is poorly thought out and, in its current form, represents long term harm to the game as a whole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

Yeh, no use arguing with a brick wall.

 

-1 from me.

 

This idea is poorly thought out and, in its current form, represents long term harm to the game as a whole. 

 

Hmm. All I see is this:

 

- Expensive portal allowing connections to other portals within an alliance

 

This doesn't affect me, but I'm curious: how is that poorly thought out? What harm does it represent (at least on PvE; I can see where this could be a problem on Chaos/Elevation)?

 

Limitations I see:

 

- Because the portal is within an alliance, it means no cross-server travel; all portalling is on the same server. (Am I wrong?)

- If a deed leaves an alliance, the portal becomes useless to that alliance.

 

Effects I see:

 

- Alliances building more deeds in a network across an island (Xanadu!). Means more income for the devs.

- Promotes more people being more places. Effectively, it maximizes the existing population. -That- seems like a really good thing.

- Promotes being in an alliance. Is that a downside?

- Allows easier trade of smaller items, especially sleep powders, as well as enchants like Genesis/Strongwall/Courier. That doesn't seem bad, either.

- Sink for expensive MM. Doesn't seem bad.

- Doesn't eliminate cross-server boat travel, or exploration of wild areas (Xanadu again). Actually, promotes more exploration: since explorers can teleport to the nearest portalled deed to the wild.

- Makes inland, landlocked deeds more viable. -That- seems really good to me, too.

 

I really don't see a major downside, at least for PvE. (As a matter of fact, would be really cool to have this on the Epic home servers!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Roccandil said:

This doesn't affect me, but I'm curious: how is that poorly thought out? What harm does it represent (at least on PvE; I can see where this could be a problem on Chaos/Elevation)?

    If you can't understand why this is a bad idea you've never played an RPG with instant travel. I gave the example of Skyrim in my previous post. In that game you must only go to one particular place once before you can instantly teleport yourself and all your belongings there however many times you want. 

    The bad side of this is the fact that, after having visited the major places once, you'll keep teleporting between them without ever really exploring the world like you should. You'll teleport from Solitude to Riften if you're going to do the Dawnguard questline because Riften is much closer. This will make you completely disregard 100% of the content between Solitude and Riften. It's like that part of the game does not even exist. 

    Now, imagine this , but in Wurm. Imagine people would just teleport between their deeds, instead of travelling, meeting people, doing things,getting in trouble, getting out of trouble ETC....  I know, it's bland, and it's not something that is needed. If this was implemented i can see a lot of people liking it day 1, but as time goes on they will experience the 'elder scrolls effect' where you get bored of a game because it's more convenient to skip its content.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I say no to all teleports in rpg games, it ruins the experience in the long run, even if they are handy sometimes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don't understand why at this point we don't have server-based auction houses that link all merchants/traders on that server to one central auction house to check item prices/ enchants/ ads, etc. Forums are nice and all but one thing that I've loved about classic wow when it came out many years ago, was the ability to check prices and items from hundreds of players on just one screen. I get the realism of making a large market of traders/merchants but some "realistic" game features will never be fun. First of all , finding a certain merchant is a stroke of luck more often than not. We need more modern approaches that make the game fun. 

 

As for "fast travel" , tbh wurm as a journey is a story where you ALWAYS seek new ways to travel faster from point A to point B. First you start the game and run around. Then you realise that you need a horse for faster travel and combat. Then you realise it would be nice to imp that horse gear to 90. Then you realise WoA could help. Then you realise 5 speeder horses are nicer. Maybe put a speed rune on your cart, etc etc. 

 

All these choices have the same behavior in mind, aka = choosing the most optimal approach to an action, a less time consuming one. One common fallacy in wurm is that time invested = greater reward and satisfaction, which is not true in many cases. I can grind certain skills to 90 and the payoff for them is next to none. So why not make fast travel optional for some? Maybe I'm bored of walking the same highways for the 500th time and just want to pop over to my friends deed to imp his armor. Maybe a job or family prevents me from running 30 mins on horseback with max woa and ql gear to one end of the server to another. Actions that are less time consuming do not necesarily eliminate reward satisfaction. This isn't about "delaying gratification", it's about offering people options to either waste less time or not. 

 

Tldr : +1 for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Gladiator said:

    If you can't understand why this is a bad idea you've never played an RPG with instant travel. I gave the example of Skyrim in my previous post. In that game you must only go to one particular place once before you can instantly teleport yourself and all your belongings there however many times you want. 

    The bad side of this is the fact that, after having visited the major places once, you'll keep teleporting between them without ever really exploring the world like you should. You'll teleport from Solitude to Riften if you're going to do the Dawnguard questline because Riften is much closer. This will make you completely disregard 100% of the content between Solitude and Riften. It's like that part of the game does not even exist. 

    Now, imagine this , but in Wurm. Imagine people would just teleport between their deeds, instead of travelling, meeting people, doing things,getting in trouble, getting out of trouble ETC....  I know, it's bland, and it's not something that is needed. If this was implemented i can see a lot of people liking it day 1, but as time goes on they will experience the 'elder scrolls effect' where you get bored of a game because it's more convenient to skip its content.

 

I've played Skyrim, as well as many other RPGs with unlockable instant travel, and I love it. :P It eliminates repetition (a big thing for me). I also tend to be thorough about exploring everything (no shadows on my maps!), and instant travel to previously unlocked teleports just facilitates that.

 

In short, based on my own experience with instant teleports, I consider the "skipping content" argument to be a fallacy. Teleports skip repetition, not content.

 

Or, perhaps more precisely, teleports give players more power to choose the content they want to experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/30/2019 at 7:16 PM, Finnn said:

@Cornchips, teleport is not in the game and path ability to pop around the map at random places have been in the game for so long, nobody complained about that, have they

 

How'd you even put this up as an argument when it isn't even on the same tree that the leaf of the teleportation that's being talked about is on

It's pretty clear these kinds of suggestions go unchecked and free until you get knocked down from someone who actually understands the game comes in and then you just run around the bush with it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Gladiator said:

If this was implemented i can see a lot of people liking it day 1, but as time goes on they will experience the 'elder scrolls effect' where you get bored of a game because it's more convenient to skip its content.

 

Dude, I respect your position, I agree with some crucial points you make and am not in favor of people teleporting around completely scot free either. But you're making the argument that "teleportation will kill Wurm, just like it has Skyrim, one of the most popular RPGs to this day." That's a bit nuts.

I personally liked travelling in Morrowind more, too, than in later TES games. But it would be ignorant to pretend that we aren't the minority liking at least a little bit of "grit" in the travel. I'd also be lying if I said I didn't apprechiate some slack in the travel. Like in Morrowind, where you had "Mark and Recall" and Siltstriders. In my first runs, I even just "coc"''ed through the game, being an impatient youngster. Still enjoyed the heck out of the game even when it did end up taking away from an aspect of the game, but making everything else more accessible (at least for me at the time.). It ain't pretty but it doesn't kill games, to say so is a crass exaggeration.

 

Either way, just my two cents toward the "hardliners" in general, not just Gladiator in particular but he makes some points that lend themselves to pick this up on. Like I said, I'm on the side of the "moderate/soft" naysayers about these portals here so in the context of this thread we agree on more than we disagree on.

I just wonder, has the "no teleports!" crew considered that teleportation in general may be not be meant as a "cool and exciting feature" (I agree that it isn't.*), but more of a "neccessary evil"?

 

 

*Except the random teleport of the Insanity Path. If the prospect of committing an elaborate suicide with the click of a button doesn't excite you, I don't know what would.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The core issue isn't the "early days" where every alliance of sufficient size starts to link it's settlements using portals.  Note, the op wrote that teleportation would be allowed between similar devices.

 

The long term harm is the cumulative effect of infinite transport devices building up, and being overly easy to retain.  Every alliance being linked to every other alliance via teleporter, thus meaning every deed in an alliance being linked in an uber-network.

 

This is not a feature that would be "nice to have", it becomes a new necessity.

 

I am not against teleportation on when, but I do believe it needs a solid cost per teleport.  To avoid the empty roads of wurm becoming even emptier...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally wouldn't use it if it costs anything to just move, rather go dump money for fortnite skins.

--edit

p.s. I don't even play fortnite

Edited by Finnn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/2/2019 at 12:08 AM, Maiev said:

+1 to teleporting between starter towns and markets, +1 to building difficult and resource intensive gate to teleport to starter towns and markets and port back, -1 to teleporting inbetween alliance deeds. 

 

No need to have teleports to markets as they are right next to towns. Besides, you can already just suicide an alt and mail from and to your actual char, putting item in your merchant or shopping easily so no need for teleport to starter towns. This seems like too much work for so little gain. Only good thing I can think of it is that the market horse sales would increase because of players who teleport (on foot obv.) to go to a location near the starter town.

 

Increasing teleport in the game overall is a bad idea, unless you pay a price, for example losing some skills as if you just died or losing a significant ammount of sleep bonus. A dark gate feeding a little upon your life essence to teleport you to an alliance deed or starter town or whatever.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see no reason to stop a huge penalizing hammer on simple movement, I see no harm to temporarily debuff a player on MindLogic for 10-15minutes, reducing it's skill by some % for a timed period, like teleport dizziness, using several teleports in a row.. prolonging the effect in time and power(higher % of the skill lost for certain time).

That or something like that wont really promote moving around by doing just that, a slight thinking about it.. could lead to several key skills to debuff.. making building/fighting a bit harder to deal with ... right after teleporting that way.. anything over 15-20min is starting to kill the purpose of saving time with traveling on road tho.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about teleporting making you pass over your fatigue limit, making you unable to do any actions for many hours (which will be completely fine if you are about to log off anyways) and also requiring some kind of item like 10 gems over a certain ql or silver coins? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about going through it and it deletes your character, that sounds fun, right?

But why?

Who wins from that?

 

Many of the actions in the game require fatigue time, it's a crippling factor to mess with it for no reason, and only 1 thing does lower is.. actions affecting something in the world, moving your ass around isn't doing anything to the game until you cause changes.

 

Who the ... is going to pay silver coins to travel over pixels in virtual world? Guys.. you're going crazy.. it's to make things easier and let people interact more, not to drive people off the game with wogic, who'd like to make a new item that just sucks and isn't good for anything? Who comes up with such content?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now