Oblivionnreaver

Remove the skillgain disable when dropping+digging

Recommended Posts

This is something that comes up every now and again in ca-help, newbies digging, dropping what they're digging on the floor and their skillgains getting disabled to what i assume is some ancient anti-macro from 10+ years ago. I really can't see what the point of it is if you can dig clay/tar and drop it into bsb's and only need to swap to a new bsb every 16,000 dug, all it does is confuse new players. removing it or giving a warning saying "skillgain will be disabled, move elsewhere" would be helpful for them, as it's a rather confusing system with 0 way of knowing about it unless you have skillgain set to every tick and you're watching the skill tab. Dig_to_pile doesn't have this issue afaik so no reason for dig to have it

Edited by Oblivionnreaver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 to remain as it is.

I like no botting.

It's not ancient, and noobs have no clue wt* they do.. they certainly have no clue what grinding is, and how to optimize that, let them figure things or ask for tips(ca-help/other people).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Finnn said:

they certainly have no clue what grinding is, and how to optimize that,

thats exactly why theyre the ones being impacted by the system the most, if theyre not watching their skillticks theyd have no idea their skillgain has been stopped. do you really think obscure systems that require you to ask in ca help to workaround are a good game mechanic lmfao

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If they are not watching for the skill ticks they are not worried about the skill gain.

 

I am still a newish person. Only been playing about 5 months.  My question would be why would picking up and dropping  dirt be the preferred way to gain digging.  I found digging clay to be better.  Then you actually have something you can make. Mortar still useable and sealable at low quality. 

 

Though I did also find mt best gain in digging when I leveled for my deed and moving around.   It's not that hard to figure out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Harriman said:

My question would be why would picking up and dropping  dirt be the preferred way to gain digging. 

its not, its something only a completely new player does, hence the suggestion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

its not, its something only a completely new player does, hence the suggestion

This is never something I though about doing on purpose as a way to gain skill and is not something i think the average new person would do.  

 

If a new person is doing this for skill I would bet they would be watching for skill tricks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Finn that new players need to gradually learn the ways of Wurm. The OP already pointed out the solution to his own supposed quandary, just make a dig_to_pile keybind and happily dig 100 dirt, clay or whatever to a pile on the tile you are standing on. Much better for newbies too since they can only hold 3-5 dirt anyway. Wurm is very much a game of learning how to do things effectively, or not. The heart of a new player experience and feeling of accomplishment.

 

=Ayes=

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Harriman said:

and is not something i think the average new person would do.  

okay, you can think that all you want, it's a common question in ca-help because it happens quite often, i've explained how to work around it way too many times, and that's only the people that noticed their skillgain was stopped and spoke up in ca-help about it.

11 hours ago, Ayes said:

The OP already pointed out the solution to his own supposed quandary, just make a dig_to_pile keybind and happily dig 100 dirt, clay or whatever to a pile on the tile you are standing on

that solves it for me, not for newbies that don't know the system's there, or those that don't know that dig_to_pile is a thing, let alone how to bind a key. but that brings us back around to why would dig have this restriction but not dig_to_pile, seeing as dig_to_pile is essentially digging, then automatically dropping onto the ground. there's 0 reason for the manual one to be more restrictive.

 

If you accidentally set it off for whatever reason, it disables your skillgain for every single thing you do, not just digging, for around 10-15 minutes, without warning. do you honestly think that's a good system? accidentally drop too much dirt, or dig next to someone that's flattening/leveling for too long, and suddenly you don't get any skill no matter what skill you try?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

or those that don't know that dig_to_pile is a thing

I entered some portal over 4000 days ago. I just learned of this last month.

 

I'm also just now learning of this skill stoppage. How does it work precisely? Before dig to pile, I would dig and throw it into a pile as I went. Does it affect this, or is it digging and dropping the dirt back to change the slope that triggers it? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Beanbag said:

I'm also just now learning of this skill stoppage. How does it work precisely? Before dig to pile, I would dig and throw it into a pile as I went. Does it affect this, or is it digging and dropping the dirt back to change the slope that triggers it? 

digging dirt, dropping dirt then re-digging it, or digging at the base of where someone else is flattening are the two quickest ways to trigger it, but i've set it off dropping into piles and having another account collecting it in a wagon. only way i managed to set it off digging to pile was having alts flatten dirt into me as i dug, which it really doesn't like for some reason. easiest way to think about it is a bar that goes up every time it doesn't like what action you do, then once it hits a certain point skillgains cut off. if i'm digging solely to gather dirt i generally ignore it and keep going, then just leave world at the end to fix it. even doing things like dropping dirt to raise clay while you're digging it can set it off, but that generally requires you to be in a massive pit already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/25/2019 at 6:41 AM, Oblivionnreaver said:

If you accidentally set it off for whatever reason, it disables your skillgain for every single thing you do, not just digging, for around 10-15 minutes, without warning. do you honestly think that's a good system? accidentally drop too much dirt, or dig next to someone that's flattening/leveling for too long, and suddenly you don't get any skill no matter what skill you try?

I was never aware of this effect of skill blocking to the extent you describe. In this respect if accurate as you describe it then blocking other skill gains for some period of time would seem like a bugged effect to me. Of course it is also not a good system if it extends anywhere beyond just blocking the dig and drop skill gain freeze.

 

Even then yeah, the dig and drop method of gaining skill being blocked is too harsh, restrictive and should be removed on that basis alone, not because dig_to_pile is the way to avoid this skill nerfing. Your OP just draws attention to the fact that dig_to_pile avoids this and then the Devs may consider nerfing the skill gains from that too. It is best to never draw attention to some mechanic that overcomes the restrictions/nerfs of another similar one as the Devs are ever prowling for things of these sorts to devour in their pursuit of equatable nerfdomness.

 

=Ayes=

Edited by Ayes
dig_to_pile

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This doesnt just extend to dig dropping either this affects flattening cave floors as well and the resulting no skill for ANY skill you do cooldown period afterwards is ######
I made a bug report about it for flattening but as described here it is bugged for digging too so i think that system needs to be scrapped as really it was put in place in hopes to stop simple macro's of dig drop dirt from being a thing even though we all know how to grind in better ways then that anyway and stems from a time where a lot of silly "anti-macro" stuff was put in place

And i highly doubt that the devs would nerf dig_to_pile and make this system that is in place trigger as the amount of legit players that would be left with no way to gain skill for any amount of time would be to high if they just go dig clay to make mortar it be silly
What needs to be done is this system needs to be scrapped as any macro worth its weight in bytes will be far more advanced then a simple press keybind to dig, click dirt in inventory, drop on ground, repeat setup and why would they dig dirt anyway?

The only time a person will dig and drop dirt is as a newbie with low digging who is trying to flatten a small area to build their first house on and has to dig down 1 corner of say 40-50 dirt and move that to a corner of the tile next to it before they have a wagon and due to the small area that system triggers and now they arent getting skill on anything and like oblivion mentioned it is a question that pops up in ca help often but us older players dont even know it exists let alone is an issue for new players as most people dont even bother with ca-help



Here is the link to the bug report 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had rhis issue being a noob  If you start the game far from tar clay etc and on a sloped are it quite seems the only way to get the needed digging skill to terraform is find a flat tile and grind there. .. otherwise slope is too high for your skill.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I "recently" grinded digging and found an annoying little feature ****ing with my skillgains as soon as 5-15 mintues it triggers no matter what .. leading to wasting sb and getting no skill while digging and chatting, found a work around.. reported that to a CA/staff member, didn't seem to matter, I just kept using my workaround to grind skill.

 

If you want noobs to not fall for bot-checks just start a blog/wiki and send them there, CAs will help once you get the information around a few times.. nubs will learn to go dig 10-40 dirt/sand at 1 corner, drop it down to fix terrain, move 3 tiles away - and repeat the process over and over.... rip bot check, rip no gains.. 

You can not help everybody.

 

--edit

On 1/25/2019 at 1:41 PM, Oblivionnreaver said:

If you accidentally set it off for whatever reason, it disables your skillgain for every single thing you do, not just digging, for around 10-15 minutes, without warning. do you honestly think that's a good system? accidentally drop too much dirt, or dig next to someone that's flattening/leveling for too long, and suddenly you don't get any skill no matter what skill you try?

That's 10-15minutes of no gains.. no biggie, NO BIGGIE, believe me.. it's far more RETARDED of a mechanic.. how you can improve blacksmithing item to 90-99 with 60MindLogic and since you are improving an item above ql80(20 or over ML skill) - you stop getting decent ML skill gains, so.. you can grind for hours and hours... and end up with .10th or less whan what you can get in few minutes within the range..

That leaves you with hours of grinding and no body stat(ml) to reflect your work, that was a recent revelation I had.. maybe there are better things but.. on top of my mind.. this is the dumbest and finest of wogic nonsenses. If you have the skill to improve to 90-99.. I see no point to be penalized with skill loss for doing a normal for your LEVEL's actions..

 

Edited by Finnn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 for removing old anti-macro systems. This does literally NOTHING to prevent macroing because this mechanic only works on certain tile types and is easily circumvened for someone who really wants to macro for skillgain.

 

otherwise, let's re-add pickaxes getting stuck in rock walls

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Finnn said:

That's 10-15minutes of no gains.. no biggie, NO BIGGIE, believe me.

if you're using sleep bonus thats quite a bit, if you only play an hour a day max that's quite a bit, if you're a newbie just starting the game that's quite a bit. not everyone plays the game for 8h/day and can shrug off 15 minutes wasted, not everyone has alliance members to ask, not everyone can speak english well enough in ca to get an answer, not everyone answering in ca knows the answer. you're basing it based on YOUR knowledge of the game and access to new knowledge, forcing people a. figure out their skillgain is disabled b. go to ca help/alliance/wiki to find out about it about it and c. having someone that actually knows whats going on to answer is quite intuitive 

4 hours ago, Finnn said:

nubs will learn to go dig 10-40 dirt/sand at 1 corner, drop it down to fix terrain, move 3 tiles away - and repeat the process over and over.... rip bot check, rip no gains.. 

it'd still set off the system even if you teleported across the map between digs, distance doesn't matter. no idea why you think it would but then again, you're arguing to keep a system that you seem to know nothing about so meh

 

4 hours ago, Finnn said:

how you can improve blacksmithing item to 90-99 with 60MindLogic and since you are improving an item above ql80(20 or over ML skill) - you stop getting decent ML skill gains, so.. you can grind for hours and hours... and end up with .10th or less whan what you can get in few minutes within the range..

Thats how all skills work, if you're too far away from the effective range you won't get much skill, characteristics are no different. I have no idea why you're going on about imping characteristic gain, has 0 relevance to the discussion, but feel free to make your own suggestion about it.

4 hours ago, Finnn said:

I see no point to be penalized with skill loss for doing a normal for your LEVEL's actions..

one could see having your skillgain disabled while dropping dirt as a newbie as being penalized with skill loss for doing a normal for your levels actions

Edited by Oblivionnreaver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now