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Farewell to the greatest Dev

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Damn.. this makes the game less appealing to me. I had huge hopes that there would be a big pvp rewrite and something viable for new and old players would come up. That has just been shattered. I hope Sindusk leaving will open certain eyes and appropriate changes will be made.

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On 1/24/2019 at 3:32 PM, Retrograde said:

 

Just to be clear, he was only warned against bringing up suggestions in dev chat that did not go through public channels, this was not disallowing him from speaking with players. 

Can I just say I agree with (what I think Sindusk’s position) is on this?

 

its ######. Dev’s discussion and brainstorming shouldn’t be limited to suggestions that come from X, or do not come for Y. It shouldn’t matter where they come from if the dev’s discuss it and think they’re a positive change for the game they should move forward with it. 

 

If theyre afraid of being being accused of bias, or whatever why not they themselves post in the suggestions forum crediting the source of the idea and allow the player base to discuss?

 

i would LOVE to see more dev’s or anyone from the team posting ideas themselves for discussion. 

 

Or if there are time constraints or reasons (I’m sure I could come up with some myself) why you don’t want to post the suggestions you could just put in the time to be sure it will be fair and balanced. ?‍♂️

 

I love this game, and this thread seems to highlight for me wurm’s biggest flaws so I hope everything here is being taken in and discussed. I’m really glad to see staff’s responses. 

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Fact is, retention is up, the new tutorial and plenty of QoL changes have shown that. If you look at the very graph in your image it shows that. 

 

You're literally making a meme proving what I said we were doing is working. 

 

Yes, numbers are down from what, four and a half years ago? In that time wurm unlimited came out, and had over 50,000 sales before it went to humble bundle and has hundreds of thousands now. 

 

there are plenty of areas we can work on, and communicating large projects is one of them. The priest rework was in testing for a long period of time and gave us a lot of opportunity to talk about it, which is something we have been keeping an eye on and may do so in the future, taking a little longer to get things ready to give us more time to give information about them. 

 

As for moderation, policies are being reworked, we've opened the gallows for more communication about larger profile bans and there are a few other aspects we'll be adding alongside that, they've been in the works for some time and shouldn't be much longer. 

 

21 minutes ago, Ramranchcowboy said:

damn this game is gonna die soon

Fun fact. I found a thread from 2008 saying the same thing. 

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Listen, I love this game (not WU tho, pointless imo).. but saying the game has sold hundreds of thousands of copies and then seeing this:

 

e006ee45a9.jpg

 

Less than a percent of retention if we consider its at least 100,000

 

 

Hey, hold up just one second, did you just edit your post and it doesn't show up that you edited your post?

Edited by Oreo
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Exactly, the retention in WU is limited, especially given that you can achieve things much quicker (base server rates are 10x, 3x servers tend to be the sweet spot). 

 

But that said, you still can see that a huge portion of players not only went from WO to WU, but also potential WO players being lured by WU being a cheaper one time payment. 

 

It's not that WO is losing lots of players suddenly or over time, it always happened. We just no longer have the new players coming in because WU is seen as a more attractive financial decision.

 

And yes, I realised I forgot to add the last bits actually showing what we had learned and were doing from this. 

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2 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

 

It's not that WO is losing lots of players suddenly or over time, it always happened. We just no longer have the new players coming in because WU is seen as a more attractive financial decision.

 

Very easy to fix this. Polling updates, incentives for being a member, fixing loyalty system "yellow potion sucks what the heck come on!", cash shop, more holiday events, giveaways that are not random chat related or random items scattered in the world. Halloween event was amazing but the rest of the year completely sucks for your average player. You completely forgot about midsummer last year for example.

 

You need to act like a player once in awhile or ask the community what they want.

 

Also cash shop promised but never implemented, golden mirror promised 3 years ago never implemented. You guys... I swear.

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pokes his cape slot

 

"What's this for?"

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I believe more than one party is going WAY off topic. 

 

Farewell Sindusk, didn't know you personally but congrats!

 

Allenkey ?

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Ok, I was away some days and came back to this topic...

I was a bit puzzled really as I thought Tich was the greatest dev in wurm.

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Just now, Oreo said:

"What's this for?"

It's for asking what it's for.

 

2 minutes ago, Niki said:

Very easy to fix this. Polling updates, incentives for being a member, fixing loyalty system "yellow potion sucks what the heck come on!", cash shop, more holiday events, giveaways that are not random chat related or random items scattered in the world. Halloween event was amazing but the rest of the year completely sucks for your average player. You completely forgot about midsummer last year for example.

 

You need to act like a player once in awhile or ask the community what they want.

 

Also cash shop promised but never implemented, golden mirror promised 3 years ago never implemented. You guys... I swear.

Loyalty system rework is in process, but not quite finished, it's one of the things slated for this year.

 

Cash shop again, takes time (remember what we said about announcing things too early? Our reason for this slowing is because there's been a ton of other things that have cropped up and the Dev working on the PayPal purchasing/webstore side of things has been busy. It sucks but that's why.

 

There are holiday events and giveaways, don't get us wrong, the new years thing was NOT our christmas gift, it was an ADDED BONUS. Now if we cannot have random giveaways, quizzes and events that don't involve giving one thing to everyone then that's going to limit us in what we can give. 

 

Midsummers was meant to be the FF labyrinth I believe, but unfortunately got delayed. 

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7 hours ago, Damascus said:

 

This is like asking players to find exploits for the game and report them...

How many will do so , if they can find they can use it to there own benefit ?

Like all games there is no right or wrong as players see it ..

It's what they believe is right in there eyes ...

 

 

I think you have skewed the intention behind my post, or that you may have read it out of context. I was actively trying to discuss and figure out why there seems to be a perception from nearly all player sides that staff bias exists and has affected them in some kind of negative way.

My post was based from a standpoint of assuming I can trust what Retrograde says (a pretty big assumption) - Along with just generally toying with the idea that there may actually be nothing shady going on as he says.

As I point out, if there really isn't any shady deals going on, there is at least room for the perception of one to outside onlookers due to the lack of clarity given on a majority of circumstances.

 

There certainly should be a clear definition in your mind between what can be deemed "right" or "honorable" and acceptable gameplay, and metagaming or wrongdoings. If you cannot draw a line between those things, I certainly cannot help you, nor can any policy implemented by staff.

 

Let me point this out though;

7 hours ago, Damascus said:

Devs should play the game , both sides , but its hard for them to stay one sided wen you know you area about to get you're as handed to you from another faction ..

How many could or would go ahead with there plans if you knew you were going to fail ...

This discussion will keep going around in circles till you are blue in the face , at what point will people decide what is right or wrong ?

 

Do you not understand what a bipartisan agreement is? Do you have no notion of integrity?

As a staff member I EXPECT that you can set aside your trifles ingame to manage the game with integrity and to do the right thing and make the right call, without involving your personal standpoint or opinions of state.

 

If you cannot do this, as a staff member, then you have no grounds being involved with the game and I wish you the utmost expedience in removing your taint from this game's bowels. (That's a kind way of saying GTFO)

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In the case of capes.. I swear I remember someone from staff mentioning the difficulty of moving clothing (like the merchant robes). That’s probably the same issue with capes. So I’d guess that slot and that project are there until they tackle the issues with moving cloth looking good. ?‍♂️  Seems reasonable to me. 

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3 hours ago, Cecci said:

Ok, I was away some days and came back to this topic...

I was a bit puzzled really as I thought Tich was the greatest dev in wurm.

 

Its a bit like beauty being in the eye of the beholder, pvp players and pve players more often than not have different eyes. Doesn't mean both weren't great or both weren't bad but probably don't really need to be mean and can just say so long and thanks for your contributions instead of making comparisons :D 

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10 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Exactly, the retention in [Wurm Unlimited] is limited,

 

I love it when people's phrasing comes out juuuust right =P 

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I have read through this thread, and the other one about this topic, and I feel alienated by the subject line already.

 

I have no doubt as nobody denied that, that Sindusk was a very productive, creative, and talented developer whose leaving is much regretted by the dev and GM no less than by players. So, though I never met him, I wish him all the best and thank for his contributions, and may even hope that someday he may change his mind and come back.

 

There is nothing more to say by a player. None of us has that much insight into the development process and the work done by the team that he or she can judge who is the greater or less great developer. That alone is outrageous and insolent, and may be only excused by the shock to have left a developer and player liked by so many.

 

So moderate your tone. I can say that I know Wurm a bit back from 2012, and the changes since are overwhelming. Even what has been done in that short year and a bit I am playing again is more than impressive. It is an insult against Sindusk too to taint that work, all imperfections notwithstanding.

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I know all too well how firmly minds become set and how the Internet lacks the level of interaction needed to sway those set minds. I felt this needed to be said, however.

 

Sindusk added a lot to the game during his tenure, aided by being a volunteer with free reign to work on his vision of what should be. What made Sindusk a great developer here was most certainly his drive, however it was the rest of the team coming together to make up for his inexperience that brought his visions and projects home. Ausimus, DarkLords, Jberg, and Budda helped with bugs and carrying things across the finish line. Alectrys and Retrograde helped test and organize testing to find those bugs. We are a team, and Sindusk was a part of that team. I looked forward to his experience growing and was even hoping to groom him and vouch for him in a contracted position.

 

My only complaint when it came to Sindusk was that he barely tried to be a part of that team. When he disagreed with a standing policy, he simply broke it instead of discussing it. You may think that was wise of him, but those polices stand for a reason. Does anyone remember Sparta? I wasn't there, but boy do I remember the fallout from it. We try very hard to not do anything unilaterally and to ensure our communication channels with players are public and open to ensure another Sparta doesn't happen.

Sindusk had thrown his fellow team members under the bus numerous times without any supporting evidence. When he was spoken to about it, he was apologetic, but that only lasted so long. Even his exit was another thumbed nose at the team that helped him along the way, by not giving us any chance to make a news post. Within minutes of notifying Budda, we were getting PMs about it from players.

 

So while I agree that he did some amazing things for the game and I did enjoy his views on things, I have to adamantly disagree with his method in leaving and his methods of communication during his time. Keep in mind he only communicated with a small segment of the player base regularly. For someone who criticized us about communication, I find this hypocritical.

 

I would also like to thank him and the players who have been actively discussing communication. It's really brought into the light much of the suggestions Retrograde has been making for months now, and I think this event gives him more credit for that.

 

Between Tich and Sindusk, I feel the rest of us have quite a lot of empty space to try and fill. This is not the end of Wurm though, unless you want it to be by continuing to doom-say the game. This is but a ripple. We will continue with updates, with content, and with moving forward.

 

Wurm isn't going anywhere, no matter how many numbers you throw at these forums.

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1 hour ago, Keenan said:

I would also like to thank him and the players who have been actively discussing communication. It's really brought into the light much of the suggestions Sindusk has been making for months now, and I think this event gives him more credit for that.

 

FTFY

 

Edited by Wargasm
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3 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

 

FTFY

 

I'm sorry for trying to put words in your mouth, Keenan.

 

Oh, that's okay Wargasm. I know you meant well.

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9 minutes ago, Keenan said:

 

 

damn boy you looking real professional here, as far as I know his resignation didn't call out any names just goals the team should work towards and here you are throwing out some real insider stuff and passive aggressive personal insults

 

best part is, all of his points are backed by the entire community and if you can't see it you're blind.

 

maybe take it to the discord and have a 15 minute personal argument publicly and then perm ban him over it? but of course there are policies to prevent that, we wouldn't want another proph situation now would we

 

tfw certain staff members come into a 2019 thread saying "everything is fine, this guy is just inexperienced and couldn't work as a team" yet if you look at the 2016 road map that said staff members were put on you would see literally 0/4 main goals are checked off as complete

 

 

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Still waiting for Keenan to finish his awesome algorithm that will ban us all.... SoonTM

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10 minutes ago, Keenan said:

 

Oh, that's okay Wargasm. I know you meant well.

That editing of other people's posts to try and further your directive

Gotta love that censorship

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1 minute ago, Oscarius said:

Still waiting for Keenan to finish his awesome algorithm that will ban us all.... SoonTM

 

Meh, it was boring work. Retrograde also told me I wasn't allowed. He never lets me have any fun.

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@Keenan 

 

It's true that from the outsiders perspective, it's not easy to make an educated guess about who's committing new classes and methods in your code repository and who's adding the method comments. But if I could make a guess is that ever since Sindusk came, many new things got implemented. If said policies you mentioned have been in place for all that time, then clearly the positive changes that Sindusk's anti-policy attitude brought indicate that your team probably needs disruptors and not bureaucrats. I think the community's reaction is screaming that to your ears. You speak of policies as if it's something sacred and violating them is the crime of the century. Who put those policies in place ? People did. Ordinary people. Clearly not very successful ones cause if they were, we wouldn't wait for so many years to get a "Sindusk" but we'd get one every couple of months. Your argument reminds me of the middle ages where science said that earth is flat and whoever went against that policy would get severely punished.

 

So instead of judging people, maybe it's high time you gentlemen start judging policies.

 

An ode to Sindusk and to the crazy ones ... ;)

 

 

 

PS: change your location from your avatar, Location: (final String _locale). Only noobs add underscore on their variable names in java.

Edited by Lordbeerus
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On 1/24/2019 at 5:19 AM, Sindusk said:

The first part would be development communication to the players. Certain features and development goals are kept secret with poor reason. Major changes can be implemented with players reading about them during the patch notes while the server is down. Without going into detail, Tower Chaining was one such feature that was nearly mishandled in this regard. This type of secrecy in the development leads to anxiety for players.

 

What is the future fate of Epic? Should players continue playing there? If they place a new deed on Elevation, is there a possibility of the map being reset shortly after? How much heads up will be given?

 

All these questions stem from the fact that there is no official statement for plans on the future of Epic. Everything is being done behind closed doors and leads the community to speculate. The players don’t know if there’s a plan for Epic at all. Making sure that content is complete before announcing it is one thing. Leaving the community in a state of anxiety without giving them something to look forward to is a whole different beast.

 

       I experienced one of those changes myself, when i played for 2 years on epic , had the luck to dominate a dragon(that after another secret change to the difficulty to dominate them) and i fed it every day for 1 and half year and managed to get 2 dragons on serenity  and an egg which was ready to pop . I then decide to join JK on elevation and kill the dragons so we get drake for everyone in our village. To our surprise the drop rates were changed behind closed doors and all the work i've done was now worth 5-10% of what it should have been, that after killing the first dragon.

   I then ask the GM's what to do about it and they tell me not to do anything. then the next day the change is official in the patch notes and they say they will refund me some of the drake hide the said dragon should drop on avg, but when i ask about the other 2 dragons he say he can't refund for those as i didn't kill them before the patch note was official. so yeah i was mad for a while, sold the account i was playing on at the time (Gomeo) , quit for a while and tried to forget that it ever happened.

  I got back into the game a while ago, bought another account fully knowing that there will be another one of those changes in the future.

        I really hope they will get they'r stuff together and try not to hurt players with more unexpected changes .

  i think they should have a rule , where any game changing update /decision they make should be delayed for 1 month from announcing it till they execute it. and also provide enough details so we can understand exactly what will change into what.

  

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