Deathangel

Chance to spawn 10x+ cave bugs when mining :D

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@Brash_EndeavorsI can appreciate your perspective, and you explained your position better than your first response.

 

some +1's from me:

5 hours ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

I think most PVE players like to be able to have a little choice in playing in areas or activities that are risky versus safe.  If they chose to play in risky areas (wandering the wilderness picking fights with powerful creatures), one assumes it is because just like the OP they really enjoy taking risks.  If they choose to sit in a little room with a templar guard standing over them and imp weapons in absolute 100% safety, it is because that is how they choose to enjoy themselves

A real sandbox game, what a country!

++1:

5 hours ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

Better idea: Have more highly challenging wilderness areas with more risks, more rewards. 

 

as @Deathangelsaid... just a fun suggestion.

 

5 hours ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

You deliberately chose not to survive, and if you were "picking fights" with Champions and countless trolls, I would gather you were not a newbie

... So about a year ago, me and my wife started playing together.  We stayed close to Greymead, and I remember spending a lot of sessions injured, or dying.  How much slower trying to get anything done while being injured makes things!   Enjoyed figuring things out, etc.  At some point I got antsy, and packed our carts up and headed west through the mountains.  The trip was epic to say the least.  We died by the time we got a little past the desert.  Died trying to save each other, died again getting our corpses, died some more for the sheer luck of it.  Eventful trip.  Eventually, after what seemed like a cross country journey filled with danger, we found a secluded spot on the lake, with an open mine, guard tower, and no big nasties to get us.  We set up a farm, and a little house (no deed), and I started working on a Cog.  We quit within the month.  Not a ragequit, just a quiet, "stopped logging back in" quit.

 

8 Months later, I logged back in on a whim.  Looked through what remained of our stuff, and used our sailboat to cross the lake.  Stumbled upon an abandoned deed, with what I thought was a gold mine of left over loot.  Hundreds of hides, cotton, and wemp.  Thousands of hearts, hoofs, glands, etc.  Stuff we so desperately struggled to find the first go round.  I premiumed up, and started working on some skills while squatting there.  I was also surrounded by trolls, and died a lot.  Pretty much dropped a tent on first sight of a troll, and usually ran to the guard house up the hill.  Sometimes I'd make it.  During our first play through, I met Thorinoakshield who gave me the advice of getting a good weapon with LT on it.  So I did.  Halberd with 88LT.  Improved my life a good bit, but still dying, mostly trolls, the rest just bad decisions.  Then on trade channel, a full set of 80ql chain for 80c.  I took it.   

 

Then came Halloween.  I wanted in on the drops.  Got a troll mask, witches hat, and a skull mask.  Good haul I thought.  But what I REALLY got out of it, was 20+ points in FS, and a lesson that I could now kill ALOT more than I realized.  Found another spot and built a Corbita.  I have now been all over NW XAN, most of INDY, and now back to SW Xanadu.  I have switched to Studded Leather, and haven't had a need for the chain since, and am at 62 FS.  Quickest skill I earned.

 

Point is, I am not sure at what stage I stopped being a newbie.  I still am, of course, relatively speaking.  I just earned my "Rider" title last month.  My sandbox is sailing every few days to a completely new spot, and dragging my cart around until I get lost.  Killing whatever I find, looting old deeds, and just exploring.  I can appreciate players who just want to hole up behind walls and grind whatever they want to.  Their sandbox.  I am already getting itchy for something else as I roam... still have rifts, uniques, and Chaos to explore, but I am seeing my future in wurm, and trying to figure what my next sand castle will be, so I jump in on these convos.

 

My wife laughed about the epic trip across Xanadu last night, and when I told her about this idea that was posted, she said, "See?! Now that would be cool!".  She refuses to come back and play.  My daughter on the other hand, is making an account - she liked my regaling tales of farming, and animal husbandry.

 

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In addition:

 

I love this is a sandbox, only games that really keep my attention.  I love the history of this game   I like a great deal of what the devs have done and are trying to do.  

 

When I heard about the party at Vrock, I thought how f’ing cool is that?! When I heard about the unique being dropped for just the sheer coolness of it by a GAME MASTER, I couldnt help but being excited, and impressed  about the whole thing.  When I found out and got involved with the Knights “quest”, I was equally enjoyed by just the whole concept of it.  

 

I was not present for any of those things, nor did I find treasure.  But it affected me positively just the same.  

 

Then the complaints.   I get many of the arguments, but the way it came out... was disheartening.   Here is absolutely some of the coolest things I have seen in a community like this, but... bleh.  

 

So much talk about the newb experience, but the complaints are endless - about everything.  The constant NOs to any idea with out any vetting, or hashing out ideas.  

 

I get why DEVs might seem to move slow on some things.  This is a tinderbox.  

 

Derailed post for some venting I suppose.  

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I know! Some of my best memories of videogames, from 1999 Everquest on, were of stupendously epic Adventures! I had, when i decided to tromp off across an entire continent (or server) and died many times, then died so many more times just trying to get my stuff back. Like, that time I thought I would just "peek my head in" at Beholden Befallen, and run back out again if things got nasty, without realizing mobs there could fear you and cause you to run blindly in a panic deeper and deeper into the depths. Everything I owned was on that corpse, so of course I tried to get it back ... then tried again .. then tried again. That was 19 years ago and I still remember all of it. I even tell my family about it, a generation later.  It didn't stop me the least from going on to have more Adventures! and constantly get into things well over my head.  Even after quitting EQ (I found I preferred the more sandboxy solo-friendly  Asheron's Call), I would sometimes go back just to try to relive some really scary cross country runs past flying griffins and orc legionairees etc. Or creeping into Kunark when the zone first opened. 

 

Usually, though,  these were times I decided to go off on Adventure!

Sounds like yours were the same. Let's Go ... Do Something!  Something Something Something! Something maybe foolhardy, something we may regret, something we will remember!

 

If, on the other hand, they coded the game to (Surprise!) make it so every time I decided to put a pizza in the oven  (which some people find b-o-o-oring) there was a random chance of a dozen poisonous spiders or anacondas pouring out of that oven  ... well, I am not sure I would consider that to be quite as much of an epic memory

 

Do you see the difference?

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors

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31 minutes ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

If, on the other hand, they coded the game to (Surprise!) make it so every time I decided to put a pizza in the oven  (which some people find b-o-o-oring) there was a random chance of a dozen poisonous spiders or anacondas pouring out of that oven  ... well, I am not sure I would consider that to be quite as much of an epic memory

 

Wurm is based on nordic europe, not australia. 

 

Although the huge spiders suggest otherwise 

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Maybe I misunderstood the OP...
I did not see it as a chance to have a hoard of cave bugs spawn on top of you at any given moment while mining. I read it as increase the spawn rate of cave bugs by a factor of ten.  For my part, as I mentioned, I can count on one hand the number of cave bugs I've encountered in nine months of gaming, and I've spent a lot of time in mines. I've also only encountered two lava fiends, and no lava spiders in a mine.

From my experience as a PVE player, an increase in the spawn rate of cave bugs would be welcomed, and would have been welcomed even in my early game.  My experience could be an oddity as well though, and I just got lucky not running into those things.

Dropping a hoard of cave bugs on an unsuspecting player... not a good idea.

 

+1 to increase of cave bug spawn rate (based on my experience with them).

-1 to spawning a hoard of bugs on a miner just to spice things up.

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Lol I might actually start cooking if something like that would happen.  

 

I concede to your point.  

 

My takeaways:

- SOMETHING should change with PVE and mobs.  

- As OblivionReaver and others pointed out, it is quite easy to survive.  I highlight that the threshold is low, but many players dont cross it because first part seems so difficult.  Halloween taught me that lesson.   

-  General view that spawn rates are low.  I posit that its the locations of mobs, and our methods of finding them that needs attention. 10s of thousands of untouched aggressive mobs persist on each server - always.  

 

To add to a possible suggestion, along with the goblin idea earlier in this post...

 

The famous european spider :)

No guide taught us to check a mine for nasties before working.  We learned from hard knocks to check corners before steaming full speed in to them.  Mouseing over everything looking for the telltale red outlines.   

 

Cave spiders.  Darker, and smaller than wilderness cousins, and aggro at very close range, or while player is busy in actions.  Otherwise they seldom move.   You get caught by one, you didnt clear cave well enough.   Could even web armour you or trap you.  Again, this might just be arbitrary punishment for miners.  Perhaps they have no real appetite for weak wurmians. 

 

Like OP, just spitballing here.  

 

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Sounds fun.  +1

 

Im no code guy, but perhaps for those concerned, make this cave bug party do a "check" against the player's fighting skill. If you're above 50 or someone with you, you can expect an occasional infestation event.

 

I dont know. Then again, nature and animal attacks don't worry about all that; they just happen. One way or another, Im all about some shake-up with the game's creatures/mobs for some new spice :)

 

 

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I miss the feeling of fear I used to get at lower skills by wandering too far off the road. The current creatures all made for a scary, cautious, and exhilarating experience where getting lost too far off path put you in a sure survival situation. But then I (my character) grew up.

 

I wouldn't consider myself an upper-echelon fighter now, but I can easily walk through the woods blindly at this point without much fear other than the allure of possibly encountering a unique. Human npc mobs, some more difficult and new creatures or emergency happenings, or some sort of quick spawn events like suggested by this forum thread could potentially bring that titillating feeling back.

 

Just my thoughts :)

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Mechanically speaking, is it possible to create a second spawning system in the game? One based on vicinity and player skill that then can trigger spawns or events nearby? This could then leave in place the current population/spawn system while bringing spice selectively to more advanced players and leaving new players to grapple mainly with the classic creature group we all know and love.

 

In other words, keep current spawn system and creatures, but add a new spawn system that doesn't affect the first, but that gives higher fight skill players more situations and creatures to contend with.

 

It really seems as though the root of so many, continuing forum suggestions (and many gripes) along the lines of creatures\spawns\etc would be routed by something like this.

 

 

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Spawning based on fight skill smacks of rubber-banding, and I don't think I'd like that. I'd rather the scary monsters were always there, in a dangerous place, to avoid or explore as desired. :)

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Ok, so based on that here is an idea...

 

The spawn point for cave bugs could be a pillar.  Type could be random (rock, iron, zinc, etc).  In game cues there is an infestation: cave bug sounds, text on examine, a single cave bug pops out as you continue to mine...

 

Ignoring it will create spawns that multiply after a few days.  So going back to cave the next day may have several bugs there and increases to max amt.  you’d have to clear the cave as normal, but still have the spawn spitting mobs out over time.  

 

If you keep mining it, Ignoring the in game warnings/cues, you risk ripping it open and spilling tham all at once.   

 

So you make a choice to persist, ignore, or marshall help and clear it out if needed. 

 

Once you destroy the spawn point, it drops a stack of ore that is equal to max ql of vein, and a chance to drop a gem.  

Edited by Arishok

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Consolidated ideas:

- Cave bug vein.  Acts like normal vein in all respects until you start mining it.   In game cues could be: noises, event text, specific text on examine, or random singular bug might pop out.  Risk of ripping open if you keep mining.   Over time spawns will continue to populate mine.  Can expire like other spawns. Purposefully splitting it open creates large number of spawns to pop out.   Risk/reward: pile of ore equal to max ql of vein, chance for gem.   

 

- Goblin revisited.  Replace goblin spawn hut with a large chest.  Mostly form at abandoned deeds.  Range is short and they stay closer to one another.  Chest fills over time with random ql loot.  Older it is, more loot, etc.  Can expire and all contents disappear.  Key is on one of the goblins.  Make them meaner.  

 

- Chain hunting.  Based on tracking skill and similiar to Archaeology.   Tracking area around recently killed creatures may lead hints to other creatures nearby and eventually lead to champion creatures.   Could spawn an even superior version once enough clues are collected (based on tracking or FS).   Chain event expires within 18-24 hours. 

 

- Behavior modification.   Tougher mobs avoid highways and deeds during day, but are attracted to them at night.   Not overrun, just pull in closer, more chance encounters.  Opposite during day.   Winter makes wolves and bears have larger aggro range.   

 

- Purge by disease.   Audit mob distribution.  Disease could afflict overpopulated and underused areas to kill off some numbers to force redistribution on new spawns.   

 

- increase spawn chance for lava fiends.  

 

 

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I'd also suggest that if the population of a certain kind of mob hits a critical state (more than X of mob in an area), some special kind of super-lair spawns, that can be subdued, perhaps like capturing a guard tower used to work, where waves of defenders are thrown at you until you win or are thrown back.

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34 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

I'd also suggest that if the population of a certain kind of mob hits a critical state (more than X of mob in an area), some special kind of super-lair spawns, that can be subdued, perhaps like capturing a guard tower used to work, where waves of defenders are thrown at you until you win or are thrown back.

I really like that idea.  Not too common maybe.  

Spiders would be a good fit.  

 

It would be a riot if it were cows lol.  

 

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On 1/9/2019 at 6:42 AM, Gladiator said:

I will +1 every single suggestion that adds even a slight challange to pve

I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels like the survival part of this game is literally your first day in game and then it turns into every other "survival" building game.

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1 hour ago, Roccandil said:

I'd also suggest that if the population of a certain kind of mob hits a critical state (more than X of mob in an area), some special kind of super-lair spawns, that can be subdued, perhaps like capturing a guard tower used to work, where waves of defenders are thrown at you until you win or are thrown back.

That would be a lot of fun...

 

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I'm in favor of challenges where you can choose when you want to be challenged (or not).  But in a sandbox, there is a huge difference between choosing to engage in activities that will be challenging and having the challenge thrust upon you when you're in no mood for it.  One can be challenging, the other is just annoying.  Beyond a certain fs, the nuisance mobs are nothing more than that...a nuisance.  But with low fs they could be downright hazardous, especially a bunch at once. And for newbies and/or folks who just aren't into the fighting aspect of Wurm, it can be beyond annoying and can cause some types to ignore this game in disgust. There are many types of people playing Wurm and not all are into fighting.

 

Someone is always saying we need more challenge and yet suggestions for (for instance), a server or island or area where people can choose to go for a bigger challenge are always shot down in favor of subjecting people to forced challenges at times not of their choosing (often by the same people).  

 

The idea of unexpected spawns when you're gathering ore, or any other activity where you are not looking for a so-called challenge, is just not something I would find appealing.  Imo, that's not challenge, it's annoyance.   When you remove choices in a sandbox and dictate "encourage" certain play styles, you effectively remove the sand from the sandbox.

Edited by Amadee

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I just took this as a troll post wanting to aggravate and annoy others for a response. Now much to my surprise I see that some others are taking it as a serious suggestion with somehow beneficial results. If players want more interaction with aggressive mobs there are plenty of opportunities to go out and do so by their own choice. Harassing miners with something of this sort is not one of them.

 

It reminds me somewhat of Rolf's decision many years ago to make cave bugs into cave floor miners that would dig pits in cave floors randomly, as well as some other mobs too (maybe lava fiends). The justification was to "spice things up a bit" to make things interesting in mines. The end result was a lot of messed up cave floors that players had originally taken care to create. Eventually reality caught up to common sense and this "fun" thing was removed. Of course the players were left to their own resorts to rectify the damage done. I see the same mentality at work here in this shortsighted fashion, if it is indeed sincere in its intent (which I doubt). Point being you do not make a positive impression on players by harassing them needlessly with unavoidable consequences, of which this suggestion would be a prime example. Words wasted most likely but sometimes composing thoughts in this manner is its own reward.

 

=Ayes=

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I felt like it was a random idea, posted on a random day.  Really doesn't phase me if it was a troll post or not.

 

For a particular view point, initial reaction might be ... oh yeah, I'd like that.

 

It was reasoned well enough to my satisfaction why this particular idea is no bueno.  I am good with that.

 

What I got out of the responses... was SOMETHING is desired in the realm of Survival PVE.  Brainstorm some alternatives... and there ya go... 2 page post off a random idea.

 

Reality is, this will be off the front page by the weekend, and we move on to something else.  If any of my ideas I post on this forum never gain traction, I am good with that; I share this game with lots of other people who have some pretty damn cool ideas.

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I do really like some of the ideas in this discussion thread (not the cave bugs spawning during mining). 

 

I'd like to see each mob be given a "spawn location" which fits with their lore, wolves being in the forests and in packs, but also a proximity based attribute, such as they stay within X tiles of their spawn. X could be made larger in different seasons, or day/night for particular mobs.  Keeping trolls closer to mountains (but not out of reach) and crocodiles/anaconda closer to sand should help the "newbie" players as they at least can make sense of where "not" to go.

 

Maybe we could fix the "all mobs try to go north and up mountains" problem through this proximity setting too. If it spawns in a forest, it stays in the forest etc...

Spawns could come in two's, and result in "breeding" or more spawns if they are not culled - up to a limit to prevent walking in on 50 trolls. (Unless managed into some kind of troll stronghold event). 

 

+1 for making tracking more useful for hunting mobs, maybe we could fix the "all mobs try to go north and up mountains" through this proximity setting too.

 

Perhaps, to aid hunters, we could make the "spawns" a trigger event specifically a result of tracking. aka, if you track for something eventually you trigger a spawn a number of tiles away. So you get a fight on your hands. Perhaps with a bigger rework this could lead to a progression based track, like a hunter getting more and more spawns the longer you keep it going (in a single session). So you stumble upon a troll, track a camp with 2 more trolls, eventually find a cave entrance with a miniature stronghold of 20+ trolls. But only if you keep on their trail in a set amount of time.

 

This could make PvE pretty interesting, there are so many possibilities! 

Note if it is based on tracking we could add that the trolls etc.. are only aggressive to the tracker or anyone who attacks first - to prevent a stronghold spawning on a newbie miner?

 

+1 to anything that makes PvE Interesting, I've found it mundane trying to find trolls etc to fight and skill my FS. 

 

-1 to anything that would impact newbies negatively.

Make sure spawns are tied in with fight skill and tracking, and make current spawns proximity away from start towns and highways. 

Deeds are fine, by the time you have a deed you should be either ok at fighting, have a spirit guard, build a guard tower, or not have deeded in a dangerous place!

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12 hours ago, Vaelir said:

Perhaps, to aid hunters, we could make the "spawns" a trigger event specifically a result of tracking. aka, if you track for something eventually you trigger a spawn a number of tiles away. So you get a fight on your hands. Perhaps with a bigger rework this could lead to a progression based track, like a hunter getting more and more spawns the longer you keep it going (in a single session). So you stumble upon a troll, track a camp with 2 more trolls, eventually find a cave entrance with a miniature stronghold of 20+ trolls. But only if you keep on their trail in a set amount of time.

 

I like that especially: sounds kinda like the archaeology caches. :) And whether or not you pursue the lair is up to you; it's not something randomly spawned on top of you.

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14 hours ago, Vaelir said:

Perhaps, to aid hunters, we could make the "spawns" a trigger event specifically a result of tracking. aka, if you track for something eventually you trigger a spawn a number of tiles away. So you get a fight on your hands. Perhaps with a bigger rework this could lead to a progression based track, like a hunter getting more and more spawns the longer you keep it going (in a single session). So you stumble upon a troll, track a camp with 2 more trolls, eventually find a cave entrance with a miniature stronghold of 20+ trolls. But only if you keep on their trail in a set amount of time.

 

 

I agree, this is maybe one of the more imaginative and interesting ideas I have seen.

 

 

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On 1/13/2019 at 9:39 AM, Vaelir said:

I'd like to see each mob be given a "spawn location" which fits with their lore, wolves being in the forests and in packs, but also a proximity based attribute, such as they stay within X tiles of their spawn. X could be made larger in different seasons, or day/night for particular mobs.  Keeping trolls closer to mountains (but not out of reach) and crocodiles/anaconda closer to sand should help the "newbie" players as they at least can make sense of where "not" to go.

I would agree that these types of contained "zones" are how the game should be programmed. This is how mob spawns in other popular online games are set up. Unfortunately Wurm is not programmed this way, rather all types of mobs freely roam the servers creating a real imbalance in fighting confrontations where the newer fighters are at a real danger of being easily killed. The Devs seem to think this danger is to some positive effect and shrug off players being killed by mobs that they are in no way capable of handling on their own, nor has there been any interest expressed by them to change this aspect of the game. So I think this is a hopeless wish for any future change. Only suggestions to make this situation worse (more "challenging") seem to garner any attention.

 

Yes, create "zones" for all mobs which they will not leave and then adding all these types of more difficult mobs, groups, swarms and camps would not concern me at all since then I and others would have the choice to either go to these locations or avoid them out of disinterest to enjoy other aspects of the game.

 

=Ayes=

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On 1/13/2019 at 3:39 PM, Vaelir said:

Perhaps, to aid hunters, we could make the "spawns" a trigger event specifically a result of tracking. aka, if you track for something eventually you trigger a spawn a number of tiles away. So you get a fight on your hands. Perhaps with a bigger rework this could lead to a progression based track, like a hunter getting more and more spawns the longer you keep it going (in a single session). So you stumble upon a troll, track a camp with 2 more trolls, eventually find a cave entrance with a miniature stronghold of 20+ trolls. But only if you keep on their trail in a set amount of time.

 

This paragraph deserves its own thread.

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