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Eldurian

Make Scythes A Better Weapon

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5 hours ago, Eldurian said:

Anyway, while it seems like we'll have to agree to disagree on whether or not all weaponsmithing items are intended to be used as weapons, the more important questions are:

1. Would scythes as a viable weapon be fun?
2. Would it be hard to implement?
3. Is there a good reason not to?


1. I think a lot of people, especially followers and priests of Libila would get a kick out of wielding a Scythe. 
2. The animations and skills already exist. It is simply a matter of adjusting stats and/or adding a bonus like I suggested. 
3. Other then the potential to make them overpowered I can't think of any. 

 

This to me is the point of the thread.  It would be something fun.  I wouldn't mind running around with one of those bad boys.  How cool is that? 

 

Good gods, I swear if a Wurmian says "good morning," ten other Wurmians stampede out the door to look and then start quibbling about whether it's really a good morning or not.  lol

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, armyskin said:

 


If it's the realism angle we're going to argue about I'd like to refer you to a couple pictures:

Scythe.png

That is a mundane grain harvesting Scythe in Wurm.

wurm-20150521-1818.jpg

That is Libila holding a scythe.

Notice the strait handle and the angle of the blade in both depictions. 

He did an analysis of a realistic scythe. Wurm does not have realistic scythes. If seeing people use them as a weapon will ruin your suspension of disbelief it should already be ruined as the scythe model used in Wurm would probably be very inefficient at cutting grain.

However from the realism angle, you'll notice I suggested a bonus to a magical enhancement granted by Libila rather than enhancing the base weapon stats. That's actually because I was taking into account a Scythe isn't an ideal weapon, but it's one favored by Libila.

Edited by Eldurian

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Posted (edited)

So we are in agreement that as nonideal weapons they are working as intended. If a new "war scthye" were added that would be fine and not silly.

ttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_scythe

Edited by armyskin

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Posted (edited)

I don't think many people would be satisfied with the look of an actual historical war scythe who are not already satisfied with halberds unless all they really want is a 2 handed sickle, which would quickly become one of the most popular weapons in the game by virtue of having the highest potential damage output (not at all what I am asking for as it would be a slap in the face to people who trained things like huge axe). And it would require the creation of an additional model.

The appeal is in weilding a grim reaper scythe like that of Libla. The grain harvesting scythe is already a grim reaper scythe for some reason, the only way it could be made more so is removing the addon to the handle and stylizing it a bit more like Libilas if we want to get really fancy. I'd be happy to use the model as is though.

That's why I say, make it's virtue as a weapon magical. The scythe is a very symbolic weapon and Essence Drain lines up perfectly with what it does. Stealing additional health is a perfect flavor counterpart to "reaping souls".

However I could agree is we really want realism we could have 2 models. The existing one would become the combat scythe and the new one would have a realistic handle / blade angle:

farmer-scythe-BATWTJ.jpg

If that's something people really care about.

In a game with dragons and demigods I don't think it even scratches suspension of disbelief to make a semi-unrealistic weapon work better via magic. Not to mention a game where you create coconuts by adding cocoa to nuts.

Edited by Eldurian

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+1 to a separate model whether the historical or fantasy type

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On 1/8/2019 at 7:49 AM, armyskin said:

 

Very imformative, thank you @armyskin

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Posted (edited)

Not everything needs to be "According to reality" in video games. Take this example : just because you need to use the toilet in real life doesn't mean you should have to do it ingame. It's just a game...So that argument falls. Now, if you think being a reaper of kinds would be cool in the fantasy side of things, thats a good idea and shouldn't be discouraged just because its unrealistic...we have spells and dragons for crying out loud

Edited by Gladiator

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Libila harvests the corruption she sows, that is why she has a scythe. Scythe is already pretty powerful as a weapon, even tho it is not as good as spear or halberd. Scythe and sickle more powerful in the hands of a lib priest would be pretty cool tho. 

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On 1/7/2019 at 9:37 AM, Wilczan said:

+1 for war scythe

 

War Scythe would be cool, but some players have heavily invested in a Scythe weapon (High Enchants, Rares etc..) so if a new item/model is created I would appreciate the "upgrade/convert" option similar to fishing rods as a one time "do you want to convert, yes or no".

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If scythes should be thought of as tools, they should be made by blacksmithing 😛

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On 1/9/2019 at 10:16 AM, Gladiator said:

Not everything needs to be "According to reality" in video games. Take this example : just because you need to use the toilet in real life doesn't mean you should have to do it ingame. It's just a game...So that argument falls. Now, if you think being a reaper of kinds would be cool in the fantasy side of things, thats a good idea and shouldn't be discouraged just because its unrealistic...we have spells and dragons for crying out loud

 

+1 to this, I currently wield a Scythe and invested in getting a nice one, mainly to act like a Reaper (I wear all black and try to look scary). 

As someone who mainly plays PvE I don't think weapons matter so much, the game isn't difficult enough in PvE for the choice to matter, but can see how some may want to bring them in line with two handed swords/halberds, I believe they are already pretty close but lacking on parry rate. 

 

-1 to anything that makes Scythes only viable to Libila, but small bonus' would be fine (maybe casts are stronger when wielding a scythe?).

 

EDIT: -1000 to anything that makes Scythes completely non-viable as weapons, being a Reaper is fun! 

Edited by Vaelir

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I think Scythe and Sickle not having the -2 cr nerf while wielded by Libila priest/ follower or Truehit giving +2 more CR to a wielder of Scythe or Sickle who is a libila priest or follower would be nice. Maybe even make the scythe +4 Cr in either of these cases. 

Edited by Maiev

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I would immediately switch to a scythe if they got a CR benefit. In my opinion that would be overpowered. If it was just a CR neutralization (No buff or penalty vs. other weapons) for Libila followers it's merits would be more arguable as the decreased range and parry rate are much more weighable against the crit bonus than a decreased range, parry rate, and CR penalty.

In that case I would say it's probably still inferior to the Halberd, but it would be close enough in power I would use it anyway for roleplay / character theme reasons. I will nerf myself a little for style and roleplay. Just not a lot.

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On 1/8/2019 at 10:17 AM, Eldurian said:

I think THAT disproves your assumption they aren't meant to be used as weapons. You don't make special attacks for tools. On that grounds I would dismiss your evidence. 

I've seen enough stupid ###### coded into this game to know they would very well would make special attacks for tools

On 1/8/2019 at 12:08 PM, Eldurian said:

There is a lot of evidence they've been planning to do more with knives for a long time right down to the fact they have their own weapon category parent skill like polearms, axes, mauls and sword.

They have their own parent because there's 2 different types of knives, every tool/weapon that only has one of the type goes into misc items and doesn't use the parent for skill checks afaik. Toys have their own parent, does that mean i'm gonna get battle puppets and be like that one naruto kid

On 1/8/2019 at 12:16 PM, Eldurian said:

Would scythes as a viable weapon be fun?

I grinded scythes to 80ish solely hunting and i can tell you it was exactly the same as fighting with a long spear, -2 CR doesn't really do much in pve when you're riding a horse, more of a pvp thing. the parry penalty is there but if you were fighting in aggressive you probably wouldn't even tell the difference and LT heals too much for it to matter anyway. Go fight with a scythe if you want to, its not like mobs in pve are hard.

 

I'm all for removing all the CR penalties and the stupid 50% skillgain on tools but don't act like they're worthless weapons because that's just wrong

Edited by Oblivionnreaver

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I am not even a scythe user or plan to but... +2 more cr in the hands of lib follower/priest wont make scythe better than a halberd or spear in pve or pvp . correct me if I am wrong but I dont think scythe has the anti rider or anti mounted horse damage bonuses and the parry is so low it cant be compared. 

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I suppose I have a different perspective on CR? I'm at the level where I can solo a troll if I have good luck on landing and dodging hits but if the luck is against me or it has any positive condition I have to run away and heal up at least once.

For me at least, when I received a +2 offensive CR from going Lib it made a rather notable difference in how fast I kill things.

Scythes aren't per say a worthless weapon in that they are absolutely worthless for killing things as they are now, but they are worthless in that the halberd does the same general thing but is objectively better at it and leaves no valid reason to choose a scythe over it in really any combat scenario. If you go scythe you are nerfing yourself vs. what you could be doing with a halberd.

The point of my suggestion is to provide a scenario in which the scythe is better without making it definitely better or even equal to the halberd in all or even most scenarios.

Edited by Eldurian

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At the very least it needs to lose the cr nerf in the hands of a lib follower/priest and even then it is weaker than halberd . 

 

Btw I could wrong but I think sickle and scythe don't even give body stats while hunting while all other weapons either give bc or bs. 

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There is no information on characteristics for things under the Misc item tab on the wiki. That could very possibly be because none of the misc items give characteristics, or it may be an oversight. Unsure.

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16 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

I'm all for removing all the CR penalties and the stupid 50% skillgain on tools but don't act like they're worthless weapons because that's just wrong

 

+1 to this, remove CR penalty on Scythe

 

15 hours ago, Eldurian said:

For me at least, when I received a +2 offensive CR from going Lib it made a rather notable difference in how fast I kill things.

Did I miss something here, do Lib already get a +2 CR?

I don't see why Scythes have to be exclusive to Lib Followers/Priests though, if anything the CR penalty should be removed outright for everyone to have fun with them.

 

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