Roccandil

What a misery :(

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In all honesty, I can only comment on the magic side of things here.

 

When it comes to casting, the results are, perhaps, a little too random.  There is nothing about a journey in getting 80 channeling and still landing casts of 20 or less.  That isn't a journey; that is a vicious circle.

 

I'd like to see a mechanic introduced for more reliable casts at the cost of extra effort, be it something as simple as material components, or as complex as having to watch the skies for eclipses.  The current system of "sacc, cast, pray, dissapointment, repeat" isn't giving the player that positive feedback that encourages them to cast again, especially if they land 5 casts without improving the enchant (and the enchant is below their current channeling level no less!).

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On 1/5/2019 at 8:04 AM, Retrograde said:

That's what we did years ago with the imping sweet spot, skill * .77 + 23, you can imp one item to high levels for better skill or you can create thousands of items for skill. 

 

 

I know - the point of bringing it up is see how it was an ADDITION TO not a complete replacement of? That's what fishing should of been.

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6 hours ago, Roccandil said:

I simply want the process, the journey, to be more fun. A surface mining "journey" is a frustrating nightmare. An enchanting "journey" is a frustrating nightmare. An imping "journey" is a frustrating nightmare.

 

These processes are nightmares, not because they're slow, but because they're inherently insane: that is, they require doing the same thing over and over again, hoping to get different results.

 

You don't need to speed up those processes to remove the insanity. You could -slow- them and still remove the insanity. (And my awareness of the pettiness of the frustrations also increases my frustration. :P )

I feel there's some semblance of pointillism here or "not seeing the forest for the trees" 

 

Perhaps you view each individual action separately to others, if an action succeeds, it's a positive feeling, if the action fails, it's a negative feeling, you view each timer in it's own separate world of working out whether it was worthwhile or not. 

 

That's not how wurm works, you need to step back and look at the big picture, not every action will have a feel good attachment of success, but the grand scheme of things has big projects come to life. 

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Posted (edited)

I'm gonna highlight the parts that really speak to me here...

On 1/1/2019 at 5:04 PM, Roccandil said:

Failure after imping failure at lower QLs, and then failure after enchanting failure (and I'm only shooting for 80). I've got great skill, Epic curve, lots of buffs, and it doesn't matter. All I'm doing is throwing away time and effort into this fracking one-armed bandit that is Wurm.

...

I'm tired of dreading imping and enchanting, I'm tired of the people who defend it, and I'm ready to ditch Wurm for the next pretty face that comes along.

On 1/4/2019 at 11:49 AM, Roccandil said:

If, however, I got a shard every surface mining action, with longer timers to compensate (roughly 2x at 99 skill?), it would be just as fun.

 

Sounds to me like you are highly reliant on some sense of instant-gratification to gain enjoyment from this game, which is undoubtedly why you chose Epic. Wurm is not for people who want instant feelings of gratification or accomplishment. At all. Period.

If that is what you are looking for, then I advise looking elsewhere, because the time you will spend griping about it on the forums will get you nowhere. The entire game would need to be overhauled to suit your satisfaction, and then at that point it wouldn't be the same game.

 

If you can't even bare imping to 80 on EPIC where it's worlds easier, you'd utterly lose your sanity trying to imp to 90 on Freedom.

 

To me it really just sounds like you need more patience, and if you can't find them move on. This game doesn't sound like your cuppa tea.

 

Freedom could maybe still be a better experience for you, as you'd no longer be forced to be entirely self-sufficient. You would have others to trade with, or even hire if you desired. Sounds like it might partially at least, resolve some of your frustrations.

And obviously the skills you gained at 3 times the speed, all transfer over at like 90% rates so you shouldn't lose much...  IMO people from Epic have very little room to complain at all as their entire cluster could be considered one of the biggest windows of opportunity there ever was.

I have an account that is almost 10 years old, has been grinding almost every day of it's life since... the fact that there are Epic accounts that haven't even been around 1/3rd of that amount of time with comparable skills, is wrong. Makes me feel the way you describe in the OP.

Alas, the devs and decisionmakers here make their decisions mostly without consulting us; and that's their right to reserve. It's an honor when we're included but it doesn't happen often. Moral of the story is that you control who your money goes to.

Edited by whereami

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Do not forget that Wurm is life simulator 😉 And that is why I love Wurm ! Just like in real life sometimes we have failure after failure and sometimes we get  rare surprise or proud of our success that we want to share with others or just keep it for ourselves ... all depends on if you are introvert or extrovert.

 

2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

I feel there's some semblance of pointillism here or "not seeing the forest for the trees" 

 

Perhaps you view each individual action separately to others, if an action succeeds, it's a positive feeling, if the action fails, it's a negative feeling, you view each timer in it's own separate world of working out whether it was worthwhile or not. 

 

That's not how wurm works, you need to step back and look at the big picture, not every action will have a feel good attachment of success, but the grand scheme of things has big projects come to life. 

 

Yes it is all about big picture and your feelings just like in real life can't depend only on successful actions. It is not kids game 🙂 Nobody said life is easy , then why Wurm need to have exception from it ? How else we can learn and evolve ? Yes you can choice another game to play but what is reason why you playing Wurm at first place ?

 

On 1/4/2019 at 10:32 AM, Keenan said:

Honest question: Have you ever considered that what you're choosing to do isn't what you enjoy doing in Wurm?

 

I personally don't enjoy the enchanting grind, though I do have a priest. I enjoy building, and I also don't enjoy the bulk goods creation either.

 

But other people do. And I can purchase bulk goods and enchanted items from those people. This is what the point of Wurm Online is. Not to be a single-player self-sufficient crafting machine, though plenty of people do manage to become this. It's meant to be a game where you find your niche and you become skilled at it.

 

We're always willing to look at mechanics, but the fact is that I'd be hard-pressed to radically change a mechanic without considering the whole picture - which includes the silent group of people who are not represented in this thread. Perhaps one of them being the kindly gentleman I've been purchasing my bulk goods from. :) I'm sure he'd be displeased with some sort of easier/automated way of crafting the goods he sells. Same with people who have spent a lot of time, effort, and obviously money to bring their priests and crafters up to where they can easily and quickly craft high-enchant, high-quality tools and weapons. I'm sure they'd feel like we're throwing their time away by making the system easier and less time-consuming than it's currently intended to be.

 

Like I said though, we are always willing to look. Whether the idea fits with Wurm or we have the resources to implement is another question entirely, but I recommend posting suggestions in the Suggestions forum or up-voting existing ones that jive with what you're feeling.

 

Yes just like in real life - find your niche, define your big project, improve your skills, work on it,  ignore all failures,  inspire others i they love your idea so they can help you or do it solo, just go after big picture and enjoy the whole process !

Easy to say but hard to do... but if you know the reason why you here,  have at least slight vision of your next project and know yourself real well, you will enjoy and process and your final result ! But how many of us know ourselves really well ? That the most important question to my opinion and BTW Wurm helps us to learn more not only about our true nature but about those who we meet in game 😀 I personally can recommend to everyone who wants to learn more about someone  like close friend invite him/her in Wurm first and you definitely will know if you can trust them, count on them and what you got in common with them etc. See, Wurm has a lot more to offer, just try to see that bigger picture.

Hope you stay !

 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Retrograde said:

I feel there's some semblance of pointillism here or "not seeing the forest for the trees" 

 

Perhaps you view each individual action separately to others, if an action succeeds, it's a positive feeling, if the action fails, it's a negative feeling, you view each timer in it's own separate world of working out whether it was worthwhile or not. 

 

That's not how wurm works, you need to step back and look at the big picture, not every action will have a feel good attachment of success, but the grand scheme of things has big projects come to life. 

 

But that is how Wurm works, for many activities (including digging).

 

And in a long, big picture game like Wurm, you want your players to enjoy the process. You want to keep them hooked! Defending miserable processes is extremely counter-productive, and bad for business.

 

12 hours ago, whereami said:

Sounds to me like you are highly reliant on some sense of instant-gratification to gain enjoyment from this game, which is undoubtedly why you chose Epic. Wurm is not for people who want instant feelings of gratification or accomplishment. At all. Period.

If that is what you are looking for, then I advise looking elsewhere, because the time you will spend griping about it on the forums will get you nowhere. The entire game would need to be overhauled to suit your satisfaction, and then at that point it wouldn't be the same game.

 

This isn't about instant gratification. Micro-gratification, perhaps (like digging).

 

Oh, and I chose Epic because I saw I had a chance to catch up there (and I did).

 

Quote

If you can't even bare imping to 80 on EPIC where it's worlds easier, you'd utterly lose your sanity trying to imp to 90 on Freedom.

 

To me it really just sounds like you need more patience, and if you can't find them move on. This game doesn't sound like your cuppa tea.

 

If this game weren't my cup of tea, I wouldn't have built a tarwall deed (do you have any idea how much is involved in that?).  ;)

 

Quote

Freedom could maybe still be a better experience for you, as you'd no longer be forced to be entirely self-sufficient. You would have others to trade with, or even hire if you desired. Sounds like it might partially at least, resolve some of your frustrations.

 

Definitely not. I hate the Freedom skilling system, for exactly the sort of reasons given in the OP.

 

Quote

And obviously the skills you gained at 3 times the speed, all transfer over at like 90% rates so you shouldn't lose much...  IMO people from Epic have very little room to complain at all as their entire cluster could be considered one of the biggest windows of opportunity there ever was.

I have an account that is almost 10 years old, has been grinding almost every day of it's life since... the fact that there are Epic accounts that haven't even been around 1/3rd of that amount of time with comparable skills, is wrong. Makes me feel the way you describe in the OP.

 

Most of my grinding was done after the skillgain update. I can ride a horse on Freedom, but that's about it.

 

Quote

Alas, the devs and decisionmakers here make their decisions mostly without consulting us; and that's their right to reserve. It's an honor when we're included but it doesn't happen often. Moral of the story is that you control who your money goes to.

 

That's exactly right. Wurm barely kept me as a customer (thanks to the Epic skillgain update), and as I see it, I'm giving you all a point of view from a potential pool of customers who have (or would) reject the game as it is, for the reasons I've given.

Edited by Roccandil

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11 hours ago, Rhea said:

Do not forget that Wurm is life simulator 😉 And that is why I love Wurm ! Just like in real life sometimes we have failure after failure and sometimes we get  rare surprise or proud of our success that we want to share with others or just keep it for ourselves ... all depends on if you are introvert or extrovert.

 

I don't want a life simulator: I have that already! :) Rather, I want an escape, a place to build.

 

11 hours ago, Rhea said:

Yes it is all about big picture and your feelings just like in real life can't depend only on successful actions. It is not kids game 🙂 Nobody said life is easy , then why Wurm need to have exception from it ? How else we can learn and evolve ? Yes you can choice another game to play but what is reason why you playing Wurm at first place ?

 

This isn't about easy versus hard (or short versus long). It's about frustrating versus fun.

 

I'm playing Wurm because of the massive projects I can envision and complete. I'm playing Wurm because of the sheer number of things I can do:

 

- Do I focus time on my breeding program?

- Do I keep clearcutting for those farms I want to build?

- Do I keep working on digging down my perimeter?

- Do I keep building on-deed towers?

- Do I keep working on my road infrastructure projects?

 

And so on. Now I can't do them all at once; I've got to set priorities, and pick something to work on.

 

That is Wurm, and it has nothing to do with RNG frustration. From my perspective, running into miserable RNG gambling requirements in the process is petty. It's small. It's unnecessary.

 

In short, removing RNG madness would have no effect on the big picture.

 

The essence of Wurm is opportunity cost, not RNG gambling mechanics, although no one else seems to understand that. :(

 

11 hours ago, Rhea said:

Hope you stay !

 

Thanks. :)

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2 hours ago, Roccandil said:

The essence of Wurm is opportunity cost, not RNG gambling mechanics, although no one else seems to understand that.

 

I think most of us are really just confused as to where you're getting your information on this statement, from.

 

As far as I've ever seen or known, Wurm IS RNG, RNG isn't some byproduct of the game. The game itself was BUILT on an RNG function and requires it to operate.

Everything about this game has RNG tied into it, doesn't matter if you're talking about digging, mining, casting, building, or anything else.

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48 minutes ago, whereami said:

 

I think most of us are really just confused as to where you're getting your information on this statement, from.

 

As far as I've ever seen or known, Wurm IS RNG, RNG isn't some byproduct of the game. The game itself was BUILT on an RNG function and requires it to operate.

Everything about this game has RNG tied into it, doesn't matter if you're talking about digging, mining, casting, building, or anything else.

 

Perhaps it's an articulation issue: RNG is a catch-all acronym that can cover a wide range of applications.

 

The kind of RNG I'm referring to could be called "wild-outcome" RNG: ranging from abject failure to absolute perfection. Digging, vein mining, building structures, etc. are activities where I simply don't encounter that kind of RNG. If I fail to dig, mine, or build, it's because there's an actual reason for it, which means I need to fix something or figure something out.

 

Surface mining, enchanting, and imping, however, are "wild-outcome" RNG: if they fail, my only recourse is to mindlessly keep doing the same thing over and over again.

 

It seems obvious to me which is the better gameplay, but hey. :)

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If as you say no one else seems to understand, doesnt that suggest something in itself.

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On 1/5/2019 at 9:04 AM, Retrograde said:

the imping sweet spot, skill * .77 + 23, you can imp one item to high levels for better skill or you can create thousands of items for skill. 

 

Apologies for the somewhat off topic, but what is this calculation? Is it the upper limit you can imp to from a certain skill, or where you will get the most skill gain? It's the "sweet spot" comment that has me confused. 

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On 1/10/2019 at 1:05 PM, Beanbag said:

 

Apologies for the somewhat off topic, but what is this calculation? Is it the upper limit you can imp to from a certain skill, or where you will get the most skill gain? It's the "sweet spot" comment that has me confused. 

Its where you will get the most skill gain.

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I mean, smiths with 90 blacksmithing skill has zero chance of exploding the tool they are imping if the tool quality is the same as their skill quality...so why should priests have any shatter chance what so ever? At least I am thankful that Genesis does not have a shatter chance.

Gw0Rk.gif

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Speaking of RNG and animal husbandry.... THAT needs a truly serious fix.

 

Wogic accepted, the skill with which you sing gentle ballads will affect the combination of genes upon conception.. that's ok it' a game.   But seriously, the whole "stop leveling at 50 for best results" is downright silly.   The chance for a trait to be passed down from the parents should increase as AH skill increases, not be a static value which translates to lower chances of breeders the more traits you add to the mix.

 

50ah character can get 90%+ successful foals with the parents' exact 5 traits (aka pure 5-speeds).  At 70 AH (added disease resistance and longevity to my hell horses), about 50% of the offspring wind up culled from the bloodline.  OF COURSE one winds up accumulating large amounts ffs >=(

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On 1/12/2019 at 8:03 AM, Mordraug said:

Speaking of RNG and animal husbandry.... THAT needs a truly serious fix.

 

Wogic accepted, the skill with which you sing gentle ballads will affect the combination of genes upon conception.. that's ok it' a game.   But seriously, the whole "stop leveling at 50 for best results" is downright silly.   The chance for a trait to be passed down from the parents should increase as AH skill increases, not be a static value which translates to lower chances of breeders the more traits you add to the mix.

 

50ah character can get 90%+ successful foals with the parents' exact 5 traits (aka pure 5-speeds).  At 70 AH (added disease resistance and longevity to my hell horses), about 50% of the offspring wind up culled from the bloodline.  OF COURSE one winds up accumulating large amounts ffs >=(

THIS I can agree with. I'm at 69.xx AH. I have a perfect herd of horses with USH. Each time I breed I get a tiny bit of skill. Heaven forbid a critter happens to need groomed for some reason. Makes me run an alt to the stables just so I don't risk a tick. This shouldn't be the case. Then after breeding I get to cull a significant number.

 

Don't even get me started on the whole new color thing. 150+ foals born just to get ONE new color. No telling how many I'll have to breed to get teh silver maned one I want. Guess I should really start grinding leather working....

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I mean on the topic of surface mining, while yea it is a slow process, it makes the success story at the end so much more satisfying. I have been working for 2 weeks on surface mining my new deed and man has it been a lot of work. We have filled 45 bsbs full of rock shards from it so far. The most satisfying thing is that i can see the finish line. The sense of accomplishment that wurm is all about flows through me while working on this deed.

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30 minutes ago, timptheum said:

I mean on the topic of surface mining, while yea it is a slow process, it makes the success story at the end so much more satisfying. I have been working for 2 weeks on surface mining my new deed and man has it been a lot of work. We have filled 45 bsbs full of rock shards from it so far. The most satisfying thing is that i can see the finish line. The sense of accomplishment that wurm is all about flows through me while working on this deed.

 

I don't mind the slow; I don't mind that at all!

 

It's the random that drives me crazy.

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Get 96ql steel rare pickaxe with 100 botd, 90+ skill in mining and surface mining is fast enough not to be such PITA ;)

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