A way to make PvP raiding enjoyable for all

[Lordbeerus 77]

How it works

 

Whenever a deed is planted in Chaos, it gets a mark that associates it with one of the 12 Wurm Starfalls (wurm months that are about 3.5 real life days). 

 

The mark can be announced during deed creation, such as "Blabla has founded blabla village and it's mark is the Diamond Starfall". If we'd like to make this a little bit more obscure, we can omit the mark announcement and require some sort of involvement with the enemy deed to reveal the marked Starfall. For example, you will have to go to the closest off-deed guard tower to that deed and kill a guard and he will tell you the Starfall mark of that deed.

 

The Starfall is selected randomly but will take into account the kingdom's other deeds Starfall allocation, to prevent all deeds of a kingdom getting marked on the same Starfall. 

 

During that Starfall, the deed will not generate any alarms when entered by enemies. This gives attackers the element of surprise and makes defenders stay alert for the status of the deed during that time. Perhaps they should move their forces closer to that deed during the Starfall. Keeping an eye out for a deed for a Starfall for 3.5 days is not too much to ask I believe.

 

If the deed is raided sucessfully (token drain) or defended sucessfully (no drain) during that Starfall, the attackers or defenders (depending on the outcome) will get a bonus.

 

This bonus will be proportional to the size of the deed. Bigger deeds will grant attackers/defenders a bigger bonus, while smaller deeds a smaller one. So in other words deeds will fall into pools based on their size, small, medium, large, extra large. The size can be determined by tiles or normalized also by the difference between the tallest and shortest dirt tile on deed.

 

Whenever a deed is drained or defended during it's Starfall mark, a random bonus from the appropriate pool will be given to the winners.

 

The bonus will be give to the drainer or his kingdom (depending on bonus type) once the drain is done.

 

The bonus will be given to the defending mayor or his kingdom (depending on the bonus type) once it's marked Starfall ends and the deed has not been drained during that Starfall.

 

The bonus pools (Examples)

 

When drained during the Starfall that it's marked, or if sucessfully defended during it, one random reward only,  from the respective pool will be generated.

 

Small deeds

 

A week  of premium to drainer once drained.

A week of premium to a kingdom drainer near the drainer during the drain action.

Three days of premium to defender mayor if no drain happens 

Shield of the Gone Level 1 effect for three days

Four speed horse spawn

Three hours of sleep bonus to drainer or near ally or defending mayor

 

Medium deeds

 

Rare tool of 70 ql spawn in token

Shield of the Gone Level 2 effect for three days for drainer 

Five-speed horse spawn

Five hours of sleep bonus to drainer or near ally or defending mayor

 

Large deeds

 

Rare weapon of 70 ql spawn in token

Shield of the Gone Level 3 effect for three days for drainer or nearby ally

 

Extra Large Deeds

 

Supreme tool of 70 quality spawn in token

Shield of the Gone Level 4 effect for three days for drainer or nearby ally

Ten days premium for drainer or nearby ally or defending mayor.

 

Conclusion

 

I believe this will give people a motive to try drains. Since we can't avoid gear protection (whatever you do, as a last resort people would move their gear to freedom) raiding nowadays only happens for bragging rights or if kingdoms want to erase other kingdoms. This will make people play a scheduled game knowing where action will happen and be there to be part of it. What is more, it promotes deed construction as having a deed and getting defences will grant you bonuses. The more deeds, the more bonuses available for attackers to get, so more raiding is encouraged that way.

 

Last notes

 

• Sure there might be ways to abuse such a mechanic, but I'm sure more experienced players will think of "fixes" on my draft design of this feature and will guide it towards the right direction with their input.
• The rewards can be fine tuned to promote just the right amount of raiding and defending incentive the server needs at any given time.

 

 

[Finnn 3,321]

-5 for spawning craftable riches on freedom

If.. you pull loot from random location on the deed as penalty for letting enemies reach the token - all good, but spawning new valuables from thin air for touching tokens is just wrong and so easy to abuse imo.

[Sn00 1,005]

None of this fixes any of the issues with raiding today or make it more fun in any way, also just seems to make it complicated for no reason.

 

-1

[Lordbeerus 77]

@FinnnThe pool of bonus/rewards was just an example. I placed it in big red letters to avoid people complaining about rewards being too good/too bad. How could you focus on the only part of the topic I did not intend anyone to focus

Edited December 19, 2018 by Lordbeerus

[Lordbeerus 77]

@Sn00This approach is targeted more towards the ideology of mutual profit. I am a strong believer of the first rule of raiding:

 

People will try to do anything to avoid losing their valuables during a raid and they will always succeed in doing so,  whatever the game mechanics.

 

For years game developers have tried to implement countless of different mechanics to fix raiding. To me there is no "fix" to be found. There's no panacea for the raiding mechanics. If people can't protect their gear behind three layers of reinforcements, they will move them to their freedom deeds or alts or merchants or whatever method they devise. We really have to look into raiding from a completelly different perspective. Looking it through the "my gain is your loss" mindset didn't work for years, it won't work today whatever the changes.

 

We really need to change what we except from a raid to happen both to attackers and defenders. Kyaras are unicorns, not cattle

 

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Lordbeerus

[whereami 564]

14 minutes ago, Lordbeerus said:

People will try to do anything to avoid losing their valuables during a raid and they will always succeed in doing so,  whatever the game mechanics.

 

You are wholly and entirely incorrect. There are many stories of high-profile safemines being breached throughout Chaos history. Not going to spend too much time making a case for you because you are clearly highly uneducated about current and past Chaos mechanics, as well as what people actually desire from PvP.

 

Garbage suggestion, quickly bury it with s##tposts and let's move on.

[Lordbeerus 77]

If you are coming into a person's suggestion and try to steer ###### up, well guess what, ###### is what you'll get. I was very polite when starting the topic. But it can't be helped I guess with people like you, you know, thorns of the past. So here it goes:

 

For every safe mine breached, sucessfully, there's twenty others that failed and out of those, 99% complained to the staff. The last time you and your shitty ex-kingdom managed to breach in a safemine was when Rolf personally came ingame and opened it up for you during the Sparta raid. For all the rest of your wurm days, you complained to staff about how it was very difficult to get into peoples defences and take their loot.

 

Very contradictory.

 

Get out of my topic and go shitpost somewhere else, Mol Rehan.

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Lordbeerus

[whereami 564]

There is tactic to breaching safemines, and other tactics to ensure there will be loot in them when you get there. Just because I refuse to be part of a kingdom that uses inter-kingdom spies to take knarrfulls of loot from a deeds that never even have a wall breached, doesn't make me incorrect on that. It means I have something called morals, I choose to do it through strategy and not metagaming.

Also found this pretty laughable. Do you even know what PvP is or means?

1 hour ago, Lordbeerus said:

Looking it through the "my gain is your loss" mindset didn't work for years, it won't work today whatever the changes.

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by whereami

[Wargasm 1,928]

No.

[Lordbeerus 77]

6 minutes ago, whereami said:

There is tactic to breaching safemines, and other tactics to ensure there will be loot in them when you get there. Just because I've never been part of a kingdom that's used inter-kingdom spies to take knarrfulls of loot from a deed that's never even had a wall breached, doesn't make me incorrect on that.

Also found this pretty laughable. Do you even know what PvP is or means?

 

 

So what is that now. Are you suggesting that we should pull a "Hashirama" out of the enemies ? I'm confused ... Did you just suggest spies to steal from enemy villages safe mines as a way to fix the raiding issue ? 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Lordbeerus

[whereami 564]

>Hashirama.EXE Crashed with null values - Argument not understood

>Terminating Process...

Can't even articulate a rebuttal, so now resorting to flamebait in the form of acting like you can't even read english. My work here is done.

[Lordbeerus 77]

The only thing you suggested against the mines being unbreachable, was using an alt to spy on people to see where the loot is and possibly use that alt to take them abusing the kingdom/village privileges given to them. That's what "Pull a Hashirama" is. Three posts from you and I've seen not a single valid argument on how raiding and breaching into lootable areas is so easy. You started your first post just by saying how clueless I am about the mechanics both now and at the past. And assuming that I'm a new player right ? (That I am not). What kind of discrimination is that ? Aren't new players supposed to voice their opinion without having some guy who played the game for a hundred years come and say something "smart" against him ?

 

PS: If you're still crashing with null values, you're doing it wrong. Use functional programming and monads to write code as if it's 2018. Amateur ...

Edited December 19, 2018 by Lordbeerus

[Gladiator 968]

sounds like you just want freebies for defending deeds that won't be raided , this isn't Rust man, at what point do i get more money from spamming deeds than i have to pay to take care of them? lol bad idea

Edited December 19, 2018 by Gladiator

[whereami 564]

7 minutes ago, Lordbeerus said:

What kind of discrimination is that ?

The only person being discriminatory would be yourself, bringing kingdoms into the discussion as if it has anything to do with what I know about the game or have experienced in it. From the moment you replied to my initial post you put words in my mouth, claiming I have personally said defences were too hard blah blah blah. I'd like you to find me one post of mine in which I claim that, because I'm fairly certain that I haven't. Ever. Raiding is piss easy, even more so nowadays.

 

If you're gonna try to step up to king-#### make sure you know who you're talking about and who you think you're stepping to. You made a solid effort though, but you have zero idea what you're talking about.

Edited December 19, 2018 by whereami

[Lordbeerus 77]

Hey, you were the first one that started calling me clueless and my suggestion garbage. You could have tried the more polite way if you didn't want me to fire back. My initial post was just a suggestion, it had nothing to do with kingdoms untill you started attacking me personally. Huh, what can I say. I"m really dissapointed. I gave this a lot of thought and time and quite frankly I thought it was a good suggestion. I'm getting feedback from all type of chaos players that's negative. I'll assume I'm not getting something that you all get. I always start with good intentions untill someone like whereami gets me to explode ...

 

But what dissapoints me really is that couple of answers were not even attempting to be constructive at explaining, but mainly a "I'm gonna shove it to your face" that really encourages me to be my old self. Well I rest my case, let's agree that there's something I don't seem to be able to understand.

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Lordbeerus

[Niki 2,278]

this is a very commumeowism suggestion and doesn't really bring the spirit of pvp

 

sorry -1

 

defend or die

[Lordbeerus 77]

1 minute ago, Niki said:

this is a very commumeowism suggestion and doesn't really bring the spirit of pvp

 

sorry -1

 

defend or die

Fair enough. I appreciate that you didnt call it garbage or the rest things I heard today

[whereami 564]

I called you clueless because you were trying to present your own opinion as fact, as is clearly displayed in my first reply. An opinion that comes from a very limited, selective set of experiences mind you.

Edited December 19, 2018 by whereami

[Mclavin 3,704]

Whereami is a nobody and shouldn't comment on raiding being easy under any system because he was kicked off when he couldn't do the eaisest task in the game, which is defend.
Idk who he thinks he is saying "careful who you step to" cause 90% of active chaos stepped to him and he walked away. 
Careful who you boast yourself in front of clown because you're in the "hidden retirement outpost" for a solid reason, you suck.

Take it to a PM if you want to try big yourself up because you'll quickly become the public laughing stock many think you are outside of your x kingdom otherwise.

-1 the idea tho lord.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Mclavin

[Lordbeerus 77]

@whereami There's a fine line between facts and opinions. Perhaps saying that "always succeed in doing so" was a very bad-thought exageration of mine.

But clearly there seems to be an issue with people not being able to reach enemy loot easily which makes loot-targeted raiding so infrequent.

 

The reason I brought your ex-kingdom into this was because I was playing during your prime and I knew for a fact that a lot of your allies did not share the opinion you are having right now and in fact sent many messages to staff members requesting changes to the raiding mechanics. To a point I agree with them regardless if I opposed that change only due to personal benefit.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Lordbeerus

[Mclavin 3,704]

the last raid we did on MRC they were logging loot off on alts behind mine doors they had reinforced shut.
That's why I had a guy log in 6 months later with full drake which was-now my deed. lol.

Kids a clown. 

[Lordbeerus 77]

4 minutes ago, Mclavin said:

the last raid we did on MRC they were logging loot off on alts behind mine doors they had reinforced shut.
That's why I had a guy log in 6 months later with full drake which was-now my deed. lol.

Kids a clown. 

 

Those are the mechanics I'm pesimistic about. People will always find ways to abuse the system like they did then. Having to wait six months for an accidental login, doesnt sound so fair imo for all the effort put into taking out the place.

 

My whole suggestion was constructed based on that idea, that if encouraging raiding means making easier access to enemy loot, people will try to figure out a way to hide it better. That's how the idea of "generating" a reward for a sucessful raid was born.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Lordbeerus

[Mclavin 3,704]

5 minutes ago, Lordbeerus said:

 

Those are the mechanics I'm pesimistic about. People will always find ways to abuse the system like they did then. Having to wait six months for an accidental login, doesnt sound so fair imo for all the effort put into taking out the place.

 

My whole suggestion was constructed based on that idea, that if encouraging raiding means making easier access to enemy loot, people will try to figure out a way to hide it better. That's how the idea of "generating" a reward for a sucessful raid was born.

Yup. merchants are funny too, mrc use to -1 them being taunted cause they needed safe place to store loot.

Edited 10 minutes ago by whereami

Looks like he stepped up and stepped down. Reminds me of the old times.
 

33 minutes ago, whereami said:

Can't even articulate a rebuttal

I can see you can't.

Anyway stop referencing drugs and read the rules.

o/

Edited December 19, 2018 by Mclavin

[Lordbeerus 77]

@whereamiIf PvP was all about "assured loss", we wouldn't have events like HotA, where PvP might happen, but still there will be a reward even without someone suffering a loss. 

 

I agreee, losing in PvP means that you must "lose" something that someone else will win from you, but that's now always the case. In gaming 1 -1 doesnt always equal to 0. 

 

The prospect of "winning" something out of thin air, can cause action that might generate extra win for someone and loss for someone else. It's still a viable mechanic.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Lordbeerus

[Lordbeerus 77]

PS: There's a nice suggestion made by someone else who had a ... nice dream ( )... about a new pvp feature. It would be better with some feedback from the community. Check it out here:
 

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Lordbeerus