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SasnycoN

Do you like the new fishing system?

Do you like the new fishing system?  

200 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you like the new fishing system?

    • Yes!
      49
    • No!
      92
    • Didn't decide yet!
      59


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7 minutes ago, joedobo said:

-1 on the system. I was going to commend why until I saw Retrograde going on and on. Rolf your making a mistake letting that person to do what he does. 

 

Go ahead and make your comments, the Devs won't know there is a real problem if only a few of us comment.  Get everyone you know to make comments too.  Let's get this fixed, it does have potential if they make the proper corrections for the masses.

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7 minutes ago, joedobo said:

-1 on the system. I was going to commend why until I saw Retrograde going on and on. Rolf your making a mistake letting that person to do what he does.

 

Communicate the dev's vision and plans to everyone outside of the dev team?  Yes, we should definitely stop him doing that, and please can we go back to the days of zero warning of any changes at all until they land, and zero explanation or feedback on how things are supposed to work.  And I'll be ending my subscription unless the devs do exactly what I want, and kowtow to my aggressive pointing out of every little thing I don't like.

 

Or not.

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I was involved in the initial testing while Tich was actively working on the changes and some of the "complication" was under discussion amongst us to simplify.  I do understand the struggles of taking over someone elses work and trying to make it flow without the option to reference back to them for assistance; please give this update a chance on BOTH sides as the ultimate goal that Tich had was to make changes that players could enjoy yet not be too simple to become boring.  As with most every update there are kinks that must be worked out, please be patient and respectful, on all sides, and it can be worked through. 

 

15 years of customer service here and though in concept the customer is not always right, the customer must be happy with the service or they become former customers which does not make a profitable business.  Thank you.

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3 hours ago, Retrograde said:

A basic fishing rod still exists, and still just uses a line and a hook, with options for bait. This means that new players can easily fish at low skill and still have the same level of interactivity, gating the interactive aspects of it arent conducive to helping new players learn fishing.

 

The customer is not always right, and that argument does not carry any weight. 

 

As for the issues with catching delays that could be tweaked a little, bugs with damage and tackle boxes will be addressed, like every update with major features, there's usually a period of adjustment. 

Do I still need to click on the "Basic fishing rod"? Because if I do, it's exactly the same as the other one. I LOVE the new fishing system when it comes to the new fishing methods (net, spear, the new multi part fishing rod with the floats and baits), skills, crafting, preparation for the actual fishing, The Tackle Box, keep nets etc. Everything is just great  for me! I like the complexity there. But when it comes to fishing it self I HATE it. I'm fishing in RL and I never broke a Fishing Pole in my life. To spend several hours imiping a rod and line, and everything just to brake after the 4th fishing attempt (as another player reported) it's more than frustrating. Also regarding the fishing with the Fishing Pole it self - I think that I'm doing everything right and as you explained it, but I'm ending in the exactly the same situation as Hailian below. I see that some of the devs are WoW players and like that system in there, but this clicking on the float it's not something that works in Wurm and that it's liked by most of the players (as we can see from the poll). And Actually most of the players that said here that they like the new system, never ended actually fishing themselves in Wurm. after the new patch.

 

7 hours ago, Hailiah said:

 

How exactly?

 

https://imgur.com/Ex4BmOc

Exactly my experience! Didn't catch single thing!

Edited by SasnycoN
punctuation error
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12 minutes ago, SasnycoN said:

I see that some of the devs are WoW players and like that system in there, but this clicking on the float it's not something that works in Wurm and that it's liked by most of the players (as we can see from the poll).

 

The forums are a vocal minority of players. No dev team worth a spit actually bases a roadmap purely on forum feedback, particularly when that feedback is often rabid and toxic. Let's remember that this system has been out for about a day and will probably be tweaked and adjusted as time goes on - with or without threats and demands. Civil discussion is more useful.

 

12 minutes ago, SasnycoN said:

And Actually most of the players that said here that they like the new system, never ended actually fishing themselves.

 

Citation needed. 

Edited by Beanbag
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3 minutes ago, SasnycoN said:

 

Exactly my experience! Didn't catch single thing!

Yes, that is worth worrying, and the devs should think about. It should be possible even for unexperienced fishermen to catch a fish in waters with fishlife every few (rl) minutes, with increasing difficulty for deeper waters, bigger fish and so on. Otherwise most players will simply forget about as foraging, farming, and hunting simply promise orders of magnitude more yield.

 

Personally, to be honest, I never did much fishing in Wurm, as I started in a landlocked place (Vrock's Landing), and it was a long (and initially dangerous) way to the lakes or the sea, and back home. I did some offshore fishing as the graphics driver of my notebook (nouveau driver) did not allow to tweak gamma so that I was lost in the complete dark on sea during nighttime, and it was a good idea to moor and fish (The fish was nearly always long rotten before I got home), this condition is gone as we can improve brightness in settings now (thanks). The average yield was a fish every 1 to 3 minutes, sometimes bit more, but not much (no rare or enchanted rod).  I would expect that rate of yield as a minimum also with the new system, not expecting highest quality fish at that rate of course.

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8 minutes ago, Beanbag said:

 

The forums are a vocal minority of players. No dev team worth a spit actually bases a roadmap purely on forum feedback, particularly when that feedback is often rabid and toxic.

 

 

Citation needed. 

On 12/18/2018 at 5:29 PM, nicedreams said:

 

They took a dumb system and made it more logical.  I'm fine with that.  I like fishing in real life and appreciate the complexity of the system.  Haven't caught anything yet either, but we'll see what the future holds.  My fishing skill is only 21 and that probably matters more now.

  Here is one (look for more in the comments if you like). I'm also watching the WO streams and as we know they are few, but whatever someone there makes an opinion regarding the new fishing patch they all say that they like the things that I like, but they actually never got fishing by themselves.

Edited by SasnycoN

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8 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Skillgain is boosted massively, but requires actually catching a fish (i.e. actively playing)

 

Relying on RNG to get skillgain so you can become better able to get skillgain is bad design, and that's what this sounds like.

 

On the other hand, since you've added a twitch component to fishing, I almost feel like skill and skillgain should be irrelevant: you've deliberately shifted the skill to the player's mousework, materials preparation, and knowledge of fish.

 

Right now, it sounds like you could completely disconnect fishing from the skillgain system. I'm reminded of the fishing system in Stardew valley: entirely dependent on player (not toon) skill, knowledge, and fishing rod QL.

 

I also note that while bait would wear out in Stardew Valley, your fishing rod never would. Loading the fishing system with repetitive chores invariably decreases fun (why isn't fun the primary design goal?)

 

As far as I'm concerned, the only things that should break in the fishing system are items that can be created at high QL. Randomly breaking imped items will doom the system.

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I'm finally finding tiles where I get the menu option Nature - Search for wurms.  When I do it I get this message:   [09:45:27] You do a rain danec on the dirt tile and a wurm pops to the surface, which you grab.

That's cute, but incredibly stupid.  Like I said, all I should need to do is dig up a dirt and search it for wurms.  RL worms are everywhere, especially in cultivated soil like a garden or farm.  Worms are the true rulers of the earth, they make the soil arable so you can grow crops and live.  They turn over the entire surface of the earth to 6 inches deep every year, very slowly.  They are as common as dirt and should be just as easy to find.  I should not be waiting for them to "spawn" on tiles.

Edited by Vroomfondel
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2 hours ago, platinumteef said:

cool but most people won't care, and any "new players" will never care

 

what people do continue to care about is the complete destruction/remodeling of game mechanics that people have used for 15 years that are no longer available going forward

there are tons of these cases and fishing isn't the first, and definitely won't be the last

 

the very core of this game is BORING, get over it, thats one of the reasons why we have sub 250 active unique players in a game with so much potential

whats next?

 

can't mine on the same vein for more than 15 minutes at a time?

can't imp at the same forge for 15 minutes at a time?

can't chop the same wood type for more than 15 minutes at a time?

 

whats so hard about implementing a leisurely way to skill gain these skills at like a 30-40% reduced rate in order to appeal to both sides?

 

This. The developers continue to speak of "engagement", which in practice means forcing players to do the same thing while clicking more often.

 

If it were my game, I'd have gone to the other extreme: balancing around toons always skilling something, even if players aren't logged in. That way I could allow players to afk play (which clearly many want to do), without unbalancing the game. At that point, it's up to me to design fun systems that players actually want to use for their own sake.

 

Engagement -should- mean fun. It should mean experiences that players want to jump into, not dread. Right now, however, it means there's a goal I want to reach, but getting there is a miserable, carpal-tunnel-inducing experience.

 

Arrgh. I don't understand why this isn't understood. It seems so basic to me. :(

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One more thing:

 

At the moment, it appears that rewards for fishing were not altered. Thus the update, however well-intentioned, looks to the customer like a great deal of extra work for the same result.

 

Unhappy customers shouldn't be a surprise.

 

In a sense, the fishing update is only half an update: you changed the fishing inputs, but not the outputs. I'd recommend to the developers that -whenever- they make an existing system more complex, they also update the rewards.

 

If you change both at the same time, customers are much less likely to see the change as more work for the same result, and they'll be far more likely to be excited to try it (see archaeology updates).

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6 minutes ago, Roccandil said:

One more thing:

 

At the moment, it appears that rewards for fishing were not altered. Thus the update, however well-intentioned, looks to the customer like a great deal of extra work for the same result.

 

That is not true as far as it means the personal goal "catch 1000 fish". The fishing net yields fish ways faster than the rod before.

 

This is important too for new players who may start up with the rather uncomplex fishing net, and roast small fish at the campfire. And, to say that, the keep net is a great idea.

Edited by Ekcin

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I spent some time over the past couple days with the new fishing system and I wanted to share my experiences so far. I haven't ever really invested much time into fishing since I started so my skill was 11 when the update came in.


I started by making myself a rod, reel, line, and hook. It took a bit of thinking through the process to figure some of it out. For example, after trying to fit a metal reel into the rod with out success, I realized that the reel needs to be turned into a fishing reel first. Turned out that metal reels only make one kind of fishing reel (is it reinforced fishing reel??) and that type of fishing reel goes into a specific type of fishing rod (deepwater fishing rod??). Anyway, after mucking about with the different types of components, I settled on making a light fishing rod with a light fishing reel and a light line. It seems like all of these components have to match (ie the all have to be "light") in order to add them together. I was hoping that we would be able to mix and match these to a certain degree to increase the potential options.

 

I made a wooden hook, mostly so that I could continue imping it as I was out by the water, and headed out to find some bait and a float. I found several shriveled trees and about 1 out of 5 of them had grubs. I used a low ql awl (all that I had on me at the time) and was happy to see that I was getting more than one grub per tree. I also grabbed any bark off of the birch trees in the area, also about 1 in 5 trees had some bark. Finally, I searched any dirt tile I saw for wurms (yes, they are spelled this way in the game) and was having good luck with the dirt tiles near the water, about 1 in 3 tiles had a wurm. However, each tile only gave one wurm :(. After collecting, I had 4 pieces of bark, 6 grubs and 7 wurms.

 

I readied my rod, positioned myself next to a statue of Tich, and cast the  line into the water. It took a few attempts and some asking in CA help to figure out that I needed to wait for the text in the Event window, then left click to hook the fish and wait for the fish to either be reeled in or escape. After my first successful fish (a 0.05kg roach), I checked my skill and it was already almost 13! I thought that was insane fast gains. I started keeping track of when the gains occur. It seems like you start gaining skill after you hook a fish and you get multiple ticks during the time that you are reeling in the fish. A single fish could potentially give you a ton of skill if it takes a while to reel it in. There was one fish that gave me 10 ticks. After about 30 mins of fishing, my skill went from 11 to 17. In total I caught 7 fish (i think), 3 of which I used as bait. The other 4 were all tiny. 

 

As for this poll, I chose that I like the system. What I like about it is that I have to learn new things, ask the community questions, struggle, and ultimately am rewarded for my efforts through skill gain and fish caught. There are areas that I think need a bit of improvement, and I am sure the devs are looking at how they can tweak the system to make sure that its flow is optimized. Here are a few things I found that need attention:

 

  • Wurms and Grubs could probably use an increase in numbers. I understand that as time goes on, more tiles/trees will receive them, but I think that each tree/tile needs to produce more than 1 or 2 of them. Since bait gets used up so quickly, one will need a lot of it for extended fishing trips.
  • The 3 minute timer after casting is too long. I know the devs wanted a more interactive system, however, waiting potentially 2+ mins for the event message is excessive. I often found that my attention drifted away during that time waiting for the message which caused me to miss it, even though I was trying my best to keep my focus on it. I suggest that the the time it takes for a fish to arrive should be something like 20 seconds, give or take. This would probably also require lowering the skill gain per tick to compensate and keep the overall skill gain in a given session the same.
  • The reaction time required to click the button should be increased. As it was, even when I saw the message the moment it was posted, I still missed the window of opportunity a few times simply because my reaction time was not good enough. I feel like I am above average when it comes to my personal reaction time, and do not have too much difficulty with fps games like overwatch, so I could see how some people could get frustrated with not being able to hook a fish at all due to reaction time alone, especially after waiting 2 mins for the chance.
  • There needs to be added incentive to engage in fishing. More potential resources (eg. Fish oil, eyes and other animal bits etc) would help. I hear clams and pearls are a thing....and I did have a clam nibble on my line. More stuff like this would get people more motivated to put in the effort required to fish.

 

All in all, I really do like the system. I was thoroughly engaged with it and look forward to experimenting with it more. I think I know what this week's stream is going to be!

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So much for fishing for ingredients, i guess I will stick to banger n mash instead of pizzas.

 

Fished for an hour and caught nothing. Not impressed, not an improvement.

 

Spear fished and damaged my good spear .10 in one use. Guess I will wait for it to be changed or forget fishing all together.

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1 hour ago, Vroomfondel said:

I'm finally finding tiles where I get the menu option Nature - Search for wurms.  When I do it I get this message:   [09:45:27] You do a rain danec on the dirt tile and a wurm pops to the surface, which you grab.

That's cute, but incredibly stupid.  Like I said, all I should need to do is dig up a dirt and search it for wurms.  RL worms are everywhere, especially in cultivated soil like a garden or farm.  Worms are the true rulers of the earth, they make the soil arable so you can grow crops and live.  They turn over the entire surface of the earth to 6 inches deep every year, very slowly.  They are as common as dirt and should be just as easy to find.  I should not be waiting for them to "spawn" on tiles.

I tend to agree to some extent. But: wurms are only one kind of bait. There are wheat, corn, cheese, and flies, and, not to forget, small fish which are abundant.

 

Similar with floats: On overaged bushes of every kind, you find twigs, and harvest as many as your forestry skill allows (3 in my case). And that is just one kind of floats.

 

Wait til there is more experience, and the wiki is updated. Things will be clearer then. But I appreciate this initial learning and fact finding period.

Edited by Ekcin
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It's a big improvement on what we had before.

And I'm sure things will get tweaked and bugs will get fixed.

 

I did not like the new cooking at first either, It's fun now.

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Btw. minor rant ( :) ) about the fishing rod rack model: It should change appearance once there are rods in it. Maybe in the future.

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Thank you to those being patient as we sort things out - yes we know things aren't perfect, no yelling at us doesn't help.

  • Rods and reels shouldn't be breaking, we're fixing that so they only take increased damage on critical failure instead of instantly breaking. Lines (and their contents) may still break on a critical failure, but rods and reels should stick around and give you a chance to repair.
  • Skill gain in Fishing is different to the old system, that doesn't necessarily mean it has been 'gutted'. Hooking a fish with rod fishing is the same skilltick as 80 seconds of the old fishing, each second of reeling in a fish gives as much of a skilltick as 10 seconds of the old passive fishing and catching a fish is the same as another 10s of old fishing tick. Spear fishing and net fishing is balanced similarly, though there may be tweaks in the near future.
  • A lot of issues I've seen so far are to do with 'missing' the fish after clicking to hook them. The miss message directly relates to the skill check, meaning it failed. If you find you're missing excessively there are a few things to try:
    • Changing location (shallower water will be much easier at lower skill)
    • Changing floats and baits
    • Changing reel types (the harder to make reel isn't always the best type for every fish - using the wrong reel will increase difficulty)

Regarding the last difficulty issue, I'm looking into some solutions to make the difficulty and success rates easier to gauge as a player - but I need a bit of time to understand how all of it works myself before I make any changes.

 

As always, feedback appreciated - just keep it civil please.

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This thread is so disappointing. I see post after post of people who just plain refuse to even 'attempt' to learn what is essentially a COMPLETELY new skill and then whine about how this brand new skill isn't exactly the same as the old one it replaced. Jesus. Atleast make an effort to educate yourself before leaving your steaming negative opinion all over the place. :)

 

As for me, I had my concerns prior to the update, was not all that unhappy with the previous fishing, and when I saw the new interactive mode of fishing, I was less than enthusiastic about the added "tedious" aspect of the new system. However, unlike most of the comments I see here, I sat down with the new system for a few hours one morning and gave it a fair chance. I can honestly say that what the devs have done with fishing, in my opinion, is fantastic work.

 

They have managed to take something that used to be 30 minutes of netflix and turn it into an hour of genuine, attention keeping, immersive, genuine fishing. Throw in the tackle box to hold spare gear, the MULTITUDE of different baits, rod configurations, and new fish types, and you have a skill that has gone from "why is this even it's own skill" to a skill that I personally do not think any other skill in game can compete with in terms of immersion, nuance, and ability to tie in other skills into it.

 

So, amidst the sea of negativity, it's gonna be a huge thumbs up from me, Dev Team. :)

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I did not try the new fishing system yet - the main reason is that I don't really know why to try it. Needs quite a lot of effort to make all the necessary props and gear and I don't really see why all of it is beneficial. It does not say anything about the fishing system - it can be an amazing great one and I'm super it is super granular knowing Tich's works. What is missing for me is the goal. The goal of going out to fish using the new system. I can draw a parallel to archaeology that being one of the newest systems: using that brand new mechanic you get dibs and rewards which are desirable to the significant part of the playerbase (me included, not sure if it is a shame or something to be proud of :P ). I don't see that driver in fishing currently - maybe that was something that we lost for ever and over with Tich? 

The fishing seems like to me an unfinished novel of a famous author... and I still understand why dev team decided to introduce it. Hopefully it will get an expansion in the near future.

EDIT: I'm as far from fishing in RL as possible ... please take my words with that consideration.

Edited by Jaz
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Can agree with Jaz that there is no end game goal to drive one to max their fishing skill. I would argue, however, that fishing is the kind of skill that is not meant to have something like that. I would argue that fishing should be done purely for the enjoyment of it and the achievement of new, interesting, and FAT fish that can be fried, or maybe if we're lucky in the future, wall mounted.

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1 minute ago, BDCKoolaid said:

Can agree with Jaz that there is no end game goal to drive one to max their fishing skill. I would argue, however, that fishing is the kind of skill that is not meant to have something like that. I would argue that fishing should be done purely for the enjoyment of it and the achievement of new, interesting, and FAT fish that can be fried, or maybe if we're lucky in the future, wall mounted.

What I forgot to add to my post (edited now) is that I'm not he fisher guy in RL. That is how my post is a whole I guess...

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4 minutes ago, BDCKoolaid said:

..

 

So, amidst the sea of negativity, it's gonna be a huge thumbs up from me, Dev Team. :)

I think you should be tolerant with people who just let steam off. But I also miss more respect for the work done with the new system. Personally, I enjoyed already the creation of all the new tools. And I agree, thanks to the dev team.

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My feedback:

  • Loosen up the movement rules. Fishermen move around, particularly boat fishermen. Sure you shouldn't run up and down the shoreline but a few steps here and there, especially after hooking the fish shouldn't end the process.
  • Give a little more time on the reaction to hook a fish (or clarify the reaction window) - I missed fish while reacting in the same second on the clock.
    • [17:41:58] You feel something nibble on the line.
    • [17:41:58] You missed the smallmouth bass!
  • Bait/float gathering should be less of a chore - this may resolve itself as more tiles/trees start getting the bits and bobs involved

Overall it's definitely a little too involved to hold my interest, particularly having to stop everything else to watch the event window. I get the intent behind the revamp but I'm not certain the mini-game style really suits Wurm. Just my opinion.

Edited by Beanbag
slight clarification from "catch" to "hook"
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the miss is failing the skillcheck, not being too late. we'll be looking at improving that

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