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Do you like the new fishing system?

Do you like the new fishing system?  

217 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you like the new fishing system?

    • Yes!
      51
    • No!
      104
    • Didn't decide yet!
      62


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Will be trying this system heavily now that it hit WU......... and yes, I'll start with a favorable bias toward it because of the quicker actions and high skills i got there which'll help make the setup rather painless compared to WO.

 

Been very excited about this change... and a bit apprehensive from reading this thread... 

 

I think the problem is not so much the added difficulty but lack of two things which all gamers thrive on to some degree:

 

Rewards and results.

 

Rewards:  We love bling and decoration in general ... as tons of people do in tons of games.  Wurm being Wurm, this one's for the art team.  It's been toyed with in the suggestions' forums, mounting fish for decorations.  Many a goal can be tied in to this by tying minimum size of the fish to being able to craft the decoration.  Maybe wogic up some new dye options (Romans got their imperial purple from a shellfish).  *points below*  Could make the recipes "drop" (get caught) on the rare roll that'd usually yield just an unstorable rare fish.  Maybe give fishing the foraging rare roll for coins option too, give newbies a reason to fish to survive (and settle).  Fishing for food by a campfire scared at night all new to Wurm was really  part of the experience.

 

Results:  This one still isn't in the suggestions' forums but feels worth a thread... a few "RP" fish recipes and one or two affinity-useful ones (like a chowder that requires "one or more" of a bunch of fish, for example... something you can really play with its variety and pile on the ingredients... fish sausage recipe being added would spice up the wogic while at it).  Now while affinities are nice, I'd do a twist on "new fishing" foods and have them give buffs like +5 to effective skill (kinda like the skill bonus runes) with timer behaviour similar or based on normal affinity foods that exist.  ||||||| And since spear fishing is a thing now, add an actual harpoon that instead of relying on and skilling "spears" skill to hit in combat, have it tied to fishing skill with a small damage bonus specifically on sea creatures (sharks, dolphins, whales, crabs, octopi, and maybe seals?).  Since leveling fishing is harder now, mix a bit of fighting into it as a side way of leveling it.

 

My two sand dollars.

 

As for losing a sweet afk skill.... we got underground dwellings now.  Leveling ceilings to add more stories to chambers burns several afk-friendly hours easy.  Just remember to use an unenchanted/unimbued pickaxe if you care about enchants degrading.  RIP afk fishing, you'll be missed but it's ok.

 

 

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Well, in short, yes, I like it, liked it from start, though there were some disappointments later which seem to be widely settled.

 

I never liked the old fishing ways, that is probably why I never missed it. It was slow and boring, I used it only when I stranded with my notebook graphics in the dark on sea (this is now fixed since one can brighten the display from ingame), only then I moored and fished til sunrise. My fishing skill thus was around 4.4 until the new fishing system was implemented.

 

The new fishing system gave me the opportunity to easily fulfil the 900 fish goal using net fishing. My skill went up to 15 within around a day. Spear fishing, ok, I tried it once the journal goal was out, and had success, even did not hit my foot. Yet I do not like it so much, maybe some time in the future.

 

Rod fishing was a disaster in the beginning. I had much fun crafting the rod, reels, hooks, lines, and also with searching floats and wurms. Decay of most of that stuff was no fun though, even worse with the nets. That is now fixed (thanks). But rod fishing proper still remains hard in the beginning. I probably made the mistake to start with medium and deep water fishing, and it took hours even to catch a single fish, or score small skill gains. Obviously, it is necessary for beginners to start with basic rod, or even pole, on shore, and move to the better, but more complex gear later. Net fishing seems to be the way for fast skill gain in the beginning. Even without affinitiy food or sleep bonus, skill gain is impressive, as is the number of small fish (sardine, roach, perch, minnow) caught. With several nets and stacked actions, one can do that semi afk.

 

From skill level 20 on ca., rod fishing seems to become much more successful and rewarding, and I suspect that net fishing may hit a cap at some level, though I do not seem to have met that.

 

Some problems remain. Especially when fishing from a boat, it is an ordeal even first to find a tile where the line can be cast. Though the sighting disk gets red-white, it is often impossible to cast. As the view from boat is parallel to the water table, it can be hard, especially in deep water, to figure which tile to click when the fish nibbles. Sometimes that works, sometimes it does not. It would be ways better when the float, or end of the line where it hits the water table, could be targeted instead of the tile. Depending on water depth that can be tiny and close to impossible to hit. But once one has found a spot where both casting and clicking the fish are working, it is fine. And once the fish struggles, no matter whether it jumps off in the end or not, skill is going up fast. At my last attempts, skill gain with rod was approximately as high as with nets.

Edited by Ekcin
typo
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Newbie here so I can't compare it to the old system.  BE asked about a newbie's experience, so I thought I'd chime in.  After reading the thread, it might do well to remember that creating a new character does not simulate a new player's experience.  I rarely get cotton when foraging and when I did, I wanted it to make a bow string (archery's been another disappointment but that's another story).  When I think fishing, I think pole, line, hook, bait; so that is what I made.  My free food time was running out and tutorials suggested fishing as a way to feed myself.  Making everything took a long time and finding a wurm took even longer.  After a few attempts with no success and losing my wurm, I decided the "optional" float must not really be optional.  I got lucky (didn't realize it at the time) and found a twig near where I was fishing.  Again, it took a very long time to find another wurm.  Finally hooked a fish but it got away.  On the third one hooked, my hook broke.  I was getting pretty frustrated (those who read my other post know I had other things to be frustrated about).  Back to town, made a bunch of hooks.  Hooked a few more but they all got away and then lost hook and twig.  Looked for a very long time and could not find a twig.  I did find a worm but it rotted before I found a twig.  Gave up fishing in disgust.  You can't say I didn't try for I got my skill up to 8 and never caught a thing.

 

After I got my deed, I happened to see something about using a net so I made one.  Admittedly, I've only tried it 3 or 4 times but still no success.  I could see the fish swimming and cast my net right where they were but caught nothing.  I certainly wouldn't recommend fishing as a way for newbies to feed themselves.

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6 hours ago, Tuxro said:

After I got my deed, I happened to see something about using a net so I made one.  Admittedly, I've only tried it 3 or 4 times but still no success.  I could see the fish swimming and cast my net right where they were but caught nothing.  I certainly wouldn't recommend fishing as a way for newbies to feed themselves.

 

You can only fish with a net in shallow water, not off a steep bank. Look for a spot that "maybe" might be ok for planting rice or wading, and try the net there. Some coastlines won't be suitable because they are steep and not semi-flat shallow water.

 

If you can park a cog there or would need to swim not stand on that tile , it is probably not a great spot for net fishing. If you have not caught anything on the second cast, it is probably a poor spot; you normally will catch 1-3 small fish on every cast. They are much much smaller fish now than you used to get, so it will take more time fishing than before but can be done. 

 

Bad picture (was at night then brightened sorry) but maybe this explains:

 

rhmn1UG.png

 

Overall, it is slightly harder for a new person to feed themselves off fishing then before, including needing  cotton and wemp and ropemaking and iron+anvil for the nails for the ropetool to make the net (before, a carving knife and one cotton could get you started quickly; now unless you are a decent ropemaker from the start, you are going to blow your early wemp foragings and iron for the ropes, and it will mean you cannot plant for farming those seeds so puts you behind in other ways). But overall it is not too terrible once you figure it out. I really enjoyed fishing for food on my new characters on the old system, it was a relaxing way to take a timeout for a frazzled newbie, and not very relaxing or enjoyable  under the new system, but ... it is what it is. I would give it a C+ as "acceptable".

 

Fishing used to be an excellent way for a newbie to stay fed; now it is "okay". If I come out of a patch thinking "It could be worse!" I consider it a win.  Anytime they overhaul something like farming, cooking, fishing, it is usually to make it more complicated and less rewarding at the low end of skill levels, in order to make it more challenging for experienced players. Maybe the game genuinely needs that, so I won't argue. There are enough other positive additions to new player experience to balance it out overall.  Certainly easier to start the game today then five or ten years ago. The game overall gets better every year.  I probably won't be fishing much anymore myself, though. It is more "sport fishing" now for high skilled players who want to invest much time into lures and floats and competing, and not a time for relaxation and daydreaming. But you won't starve as long as you can find several pieces of wemp and cotton and iron right at the start.

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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32 minutes ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

 

You can only fish with a net in shallow water, not off a steep bank.

 

Thanks!  But how is a newbie supposed to know that?  (Edit: That's one of the reasons I said creating a new character doesn't simulate new player experience.)  In fact, the wiki says "You can get better fish in deeper water" which implies the deeper the better.  Anyway, "my" bay has about a 2-4 tile area that shallow.  I'll try it there.  All the other banks are pretty steep.  I've drowned swimming across it to escape a troll and didn't have enough stamina to climb any bank.  Heh.  Thanks again!

Edited by Tuxro
Clarification
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I suspect those new player tutorials haven't been updated in a while - with the starter gear, you're now much better equipped to fight and kill some easy critters (chicken, rats, pigs, dogs, etc), so newbies can hunt their own meat.  Or there's always the option of getting some handy tower guards to do the hard work for you if you have a handy tower nearby.  Combined with foraging, you'll be able to feed yourself, although it is painful until you get a few points in HFC (due to low food quality).  Fishing is more something you do because you want to fish now than an easy way to make protein.

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Agreed, fishing is really not a great skill for newbies and priests any more. More like an elite sportsmen hobby -- skilled players need the food far less than the newbies, but perhaps have more bored free time on their hands.  Otherwise I am not really sure what the point of fishing is now, if not an advanced trophy sport. 

 

Still, with better start gear, a better tutorial, and other helpful changes, new players are overall better off.   They are not locked out of fishing -- it's just there are a lot better ways to use their time and fill their bellies.

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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20 minutes ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

Agreed, fishing is really not a great skill for newbies and priests any more.  ..

It hasn't been for newbies, at least most of them, since years. Wonka is right that those tutorials are more than bit out of date. Look at the maps of the Freedom servers how many spawn cities (pre Haven's Landing, which is not coastal either though) are located close to the sea or a lake. A newbie could face to have been killed a couple of times from many of them before coming close to a fishing opportunity much less a coastal place to settle down. In the times when Indy and Cele were main or only PvE spawn locations after GV the advice to feed by fishing may have had a point. When I started and read those tutorials I felt mocked.

Edited by Ekcin
addendum

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Yeah dunno, I disliked the fishing update the moment it kicked in, because I wondered "Why would you take a simple skill and make it overly convoluted and complicated with 0 intuitive aspects about it and force it on us? The rewards for this new convoluted system aren't great. They are the same. FISH. Damn fish. Maybe...maybe the occasional pearl. The skillgain isn't better. It's slower."

 

Why would you make a skill that was pretty slow to grind anyway even slower now? It's boring. It's not for newbies. It's barely even for veterans. What's the payoff for fishing now? In my mind, good game design relevant to wurm implies effort = reward. Well I put a lot of effort in imping and creating everything for fishing only to be sorely disappointed. The skillgain isn't better at all. Fishing nets decay like crazy. My old fishing rod didn't stay rare when I upgraded it. It simply feels like a bad system forced simply because Tich passed away and CC wanted to honour her. While I admire and respect the sentiment, I don't understand how implementing such a big update to one of the most "relaxed" skills in the game actually is a better experience for everyone.

 

Every player I asked so far told me they will never pick up fishing again, not even for priests except for the fishing goals or queuing up fishing actions using nets only because that seems closer to the old system. Dunno, seems simply like one of the most unwise skill decisions ever, made even sadder by the fact the devs will never revert to the old system which was fine.

 

Simply put, the update that was made to make a skill "look cool" now , turned out to be an update that made players totally discouraged to even attempt to skill fishing anymore. It's ironic.

Edited by elentari
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1 hour ago, elentari said:

Yeah dunno, I disliked the fishing update the moment it kicked in, because I wondered "Why would you take a simple skill and make it overly convoluted and complicated with 0 intuitive aspects about it and force it on us? The rewards for this new convoluted system aren't great. They are the same. FISH. Damn fish. Maybe...maybe the occasional pearl. The skillgain isn't better. It's slower."

 

Why would you make a skill that was pretty slow to grind anyway even slower now? It's boring. It's not for newbies. It's barely even for veterans. What's the payoff for fishing now? In my mind, good game design relevant to wurm implies effort = reward. Well I put a lot of effort in imping and creating everything for fishing only to be sorely disappointed. The skillgain isn't better at all. Fishing nets decay like crazy. My old fishing rod didn't stay rare when I upgraded it. It simply feels like a bad system forced simply because Tich passed away and CC wanted to honour her. While I admire and respect the sentiment, I don't understand how implementing such a big update to one of the most "relaxed" skills in the game actually is a better experience for everyone.

 

Every player I asked so far told me they will never pick up fishing again, not even for priests except for the fishing goals or queuing up fishing actions using nets only because that seems closer to the old system. Dunno, seems simply like one of the most unwise skill decisions ever, made even sadder by the fact the devs will never revert to the old system which was fine.

 

Simply put, the update that was made to make a skill "look cool" now , turned out to be an update that made players totally discouraged to even attempt to skill fishing anymore. It's ironic.

yeah, new fishing sucks, but the most important the official answer was "old fishing never will back"

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Do I like the new fishing system?

In short, yes, very much. Speaking as someone who rarely bothered fishing the old way, I can't comment on what has been lost, but this system feels just about perfect.

 

It provides a straightforward low-investment method of getting risk-free meat (net fishing), but also a rich, complex system with many variables (rod fishing), where you have to pay attention and learn to get the maximum benefit.

 

Dare I say it? If you're getting bad results under the new system, you're doing it wrong. There, I said it.

 

 

My experience

I've been at it for a few weeks now and have gone from 10ish to 78 fishing skill. With a CoC rod, it took no more time to raise fishing than most other skills – digging would be comparable.

 

Having continually refined my methods, I can now easily harvest 1,000 kg of fish in 90 minutes — that's more than 3,000 fillets! No exaggeration, this was today's result, putting fishing miles ahead of hunting as a reliable, risk-free, semi-afk source of meat for, say, pan-filling. And even at lower skill you can get very impressive yields from catfish.

 

My gear: mainly 70–80ish ql, except for hooks, which I don't usually imp (so 20ish ql). To anyone frustrated about losing gear: (1) watch for damage and repair it periodically, replace lines when necessary; (2) use lower-tier reels until you skill up; and (3) pay attention to which kinds of fish snap your line — you don't have to try to hook/catch every nibbling fishy. Unless you have the requisite skill, hit ESC when the feistier fish bite in order to save your gear.

 

 

In short, the new system has enough depth that there are pay-offs for players who take the time and effort to thoroughly suss it out, and also lesser rewards for less interested players. And to me, that seems a great fit with the overall Wurm ethos. 

 

 

NB

A lot of the info you need to tweak your set-up is now available on the wiki (the table of fish properties is especially useful).

 

Edited by Gwyn
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I find it horrible,

 

it is unfun, annoying and unrealistic.

 

I do like that we still have more basic and complex rod crafting, it goes well with all the other decent crafting.

 

but having started new on a server recently shows how badly the system actually is.

 

However stupid is: Twigs for floaters. Wurms for baits.

Wurms: Having just like one wurm per Tile is bad and unrealistic. we should be able to find wurms repetetively,  depending on the area there can be up to 500 (earth) wurms  per m²  ansd we have one per tile.

Twigs: a bush is basically a plant made out of twigs and branches. We should be able to get both branches and twigs form bushes without tools. Doing so should damage the plant. That would make sense and grants multiples.

The rod or parts break way too often early making it a HUGE annoyance.

 

These two basic things can be very annoying to find if there isn't the right environment around. And they make early fishing unecessary complicated.

 

There are fishes pulling away with only stupid 70gramm weight (given visual size matches their weight somehwat) but perches in general are way too tiny to properly break a line or even pull away. That's truly a joke that it happens.

 

Spear fishing, pretty stupid.

Coastal spear fishing is not made by throwing it's made by stabbing. Or swimming/diving and stabbing.

Give us basic wooden spears that are made of nothing than wood. And one with a stone tip.

 

You should make rod fishing an own skill and spear fishing. And make spear fishing the most basic form as this is the most realistic basic form of fishing.

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23 hours ago, PWreset said:

I find it horrible,

 

it is unfun, annoying and unrealistic.

 

Good assessment and good suggestions for improvement.

 

Currently, not an enjoyable activity at all - needs a lot of work still.

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I still haven't fished since implementation I'm still like 99.6 fishing, I haven't really played much either since I've been robbed of a goal of mine. This is my true honest feedback. I'm not exactly a fan, and might never be.

 

However I could be convinced to try it again;

 

Fishing needs to add unique and useful content, perhaps treasure maps that let you do a 'clue scroll' or something akin to or items that allow you to increase sailing speed, a casket full of gems or rares, a ring that decreases water bar usage. Be creative or something?

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What niki said is nice. If fishing is overly complicated, the rewards should be on par. Getting random treasure chests would be nice.

 

Also I'd like to add a personal grief about constantly adding new items to new skills without any explanation on how to get said items.

 

I am curious for example HOW does one acquire a black pearl? I've been asking around everywhere and no one has any clue. Not even in CA help. Which kinda tells how murky (accidental pun) the system is.

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7 hours ago, elentari said:

What niki said is nice. If fishing is overly complicated, the rewards should be on par. Getting random treasure chests would be nice.

 

Also I'd like to add a personal grief about constantly adding new items to new skills without any explanation on how to get said items.

 

I am curious for example HOW does one acquire a black pearl? I've been asking around everywhere and no one has any clue. Not even in CA help. Which kinda tells how murky (accidental pun) the system is.

you get randomly clams from fishing (fish net seems better for that), use a knife (yes, cooking one) to open it, loot is random


i got black and white pearl from them

 

Edited by tamat

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As a brand new player, who played for 7 hours the first day (yesterday), and plan to play 7 or 8 hours today. Read that being able to make cheap casseroles is the best way to stay healthy, at least initially. Most of my time since I hit Play has been about acquiring the stupid number of items required to catch fish. It should not require literally 7 odd hours to craft an effing fishing rod when your a brand new player. I think I should have crafted a butchering knife and looked around for pigs and other "meat" mobs. Now that I finally (in the last hour I played yesterday) found the last item I need to craft the lowest level fishing rod, and now I read this thread and see catching fish is buggy. Yeesh.

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it works but your rod will break, or at least the line or the float. really annoying. you starve more while fishing than that few 70gramm perches will feed you anyways.

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3 hours ago, Cynlanton said:

As a brand new player, who played for 7 hours the first day (yesterday), and plan to play 7 or 8 hours today. Read that being able to make cheap casseroles is the best way to stay healthy, at least initially. Most of my time since I hit Play has been about acquiring the stupid number of items required to catch fish. It should not require literally 7 odd hours to craft an effing fishing rod when your a brand new player. I think I should have crafted a butchering knife and looked around for pigs and other "meat" mobs. Now that I finally (in the last hour I played yesterday) found the last item I need to craft the lowest level fishing rod, and now I read this thread and see catching fish is buggy. Yeesh.

I've been playing around with fishing on WU as a noob level char. Definately better going with a fishing net to build initial skill and feed yourself. Problem is that it takes some time to build that too

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4 hours ago, Cynlanton said:

As a brand new player, who played for 7 hours the first day (yesterday), and plan to play 7 or 8 hours today. Read that being able to make cheap casseroles is the best way to stay healthy, at least initially. Most of my time since I hit Play has been about acquiring the stupid number of items required to catch fish. It should not require literally 7 odd hours to craft an effing fishing rod when your a brand new player. I think I should have crafted a butchering knife and looked around for pigs and other "meat" mobs. Now that I finally (in the last hour I played yesterday) found the last item I need to craft the lowest level fishing rod, and now I read this thread and see catching fish is buggy. Yeesh.

get path of love and refresh, will not get nutrition bonus but can fill food and water ever 18hs

 

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2 hours ago, tamat said:

get path of love and refresh, will not get nutrition bonus but can fill food and water ever 18hs

 

 

because a brand new player totally has a meditation rug.

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from what ive seen in the comments, its not the new system thats flawed but the presentation of it to the player.

especially the new player. new players dont read the wiki nor read the forums as a habit, but wurm is very 

different from other games in that way that you can learn a lot from both that you cant really learn ingame.

I didnt log in to the forums for my first 6 months of playing if i recall right, and i remember the difference it made.

but for new players its critical to help them in-game for retention sakes.

 

noobie logs in, sees fishing skill, decides to make rod and go fishing, 3 hours later hasnt found half the materials,

logs out, never logs in again.

 

suggestion. in description and recipe add a 2 word description that leads them in the right path.

 

fishing net: Level, beginner 

spear fishing: Level, beginner, intermediate

rod fishing: Level, advanced

 

and when they try the tool give very detailed reason in event tab why its not optimal. ie. net need to be used in shallow waters.

 

do i like the new system? no i dont. too over complicated for catching creatures with brains the size of a pea.

I went fishing once and ran out of bait, i was chewing gum and put the gum on the hook. Got a bite so hard that the fish broke the line

and was probably the fish with the best smelling breath in the seven seas.

 

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I'm just glad that I grinded to 80 before the update. I am not a fan of the new fishing system it's very convoluted.

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8 hours ago, Griffith said:

 

fishing net: Level, beginner 

spear fishing: Level, beginner, intermediate

rod fishing: Level, advanced

 

 

this is the issues, a net is pretty hard to make, spear should be beginner.

 

So yesterday I tried the other "begginer" method. Spear fishing. for a strange reason, rock iron is easier to find than twigs. So I made a cheap anvil and a cheap long spear. but even after 20 attemps there was not a single fish catched. Good method to starve faster than you can nourish -.-. At a complete newbie level this is no valid way.

I made a little 1 slope below water platform, otherwise half the fishes appear mid land.

All fishes were clearly visible, had some carps, brass and perches appear, yet even if very close to e and being right on the fish all this was, was a waiting game of getting nothing.

 

 

Also, you are right, the game doesn't even have a logical way to make floats, tig works, bark, too but only from birches? lol and you cannot make any of regular wood. pretty weird logic. Without the wiki I would probably never thought of this to be the way. And with how fast the stuff breaks, moss floats are the best way, given a new player knows this and finds easy accessible moss early.

 

And making a net is much harder,  given you need  a rope (unless you wanna sacrifice your starter one). it feels like, with all the added other stuff gettign wemp is now more rare than before as one action only gives at bets one result on the tiles in forgaing and botanizing. So getting the wemp is pretty tough. This makes basically, together with the bad food mechanics, the early game a very bring forage and botanize grinder. As these are the ways to keep you alive.  So the new player experience here might really not be good at all. Given players don't even starve half  on the way to a location not build if we take the official servers into account.

Edited by PWreset

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On 4/22/2019 at 4:29 AM, Griffith said:

from what ive seen in the comments, its not the new system thats flawed but the presentation of it to the player. 

 

It's both the presentation and the system itself. Think about other games. Complicated systems usually are that way for a reason, not just to be complicated for the sake of it.

 

Think of the old sierra city building games like Pharaoh, Caesar or Zeus. They had complicated systems for building and micromanaging a city but the reward could be a beast of a self sustainable city which you can use to conquer the ancient world.

 

Fishing? It's an overly complicated beast made to catch paltry fish. And as how people have stated, the DIFFICULTY CAP is still crazy for new people. I get that some skills like Ropemaking shouldn't allow a new player to insta make cordage ropes, or making a complicated dioptra at blacksmithing skill 5.

 

But it's such a ridiculous skill that leaves players scratching their heads, unable to feed themselves and offers more frustration than reward. I had 99 fishing before the update, and even I wonder sometimes if it would take a player twice as much time now to get to that level than with the previous system.

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