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Retrograde

Tower chaining system

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As previewed in last week’s news post, the next update will include some large changes to the Tower and Conquest system on PVP servers.

As an overall view, tower conquest mechanics will be disabled and a revised version of tower chaining will be added back to the game.

 

Influence Chaining
An influence chain is any land that a kingdom has influence over that is fully connected (chained) back to a valid starting point for that influence. All kingdom capitals and starter deeds (for base kingdoms) are considered a chain start point, and any tower or deed in a kingdom must connect back to that start point via influence chaining.

 

In order for a tower or deed to be considered chained to a kingdom’s influence, it must have a continued chain of influence (from kingdom towers) back to a chain start point. Towers radiate an influence out to 60 tiles from their base, and deeded land has influence as well. Because of this, any new towers built must be built within a 100 tile range of another tower of the same kingdom (minimum range remains 50) in order to continue the chain. 

 

In order to carry over the current state of towers on the servers at the moment, any tower within 120 range of another will still be considered chained, and allows for a valid spot between those two towers to build a new one to maintain the chain should one tower be destroyed after the update (and can no longer be rebuilt at 120 range).

 

There are a few penalties involved with this system to promote completing and holding chained influence:

  • Any tower outside of chained influence will no longer respawn tower guards.
  • Any deeds outside of chained influence will respawn spirit guard waves 3 times slower.
  • Any deeds outside of chained influence will no longer have guards maintain fences, bridges, floors and walls - similar to when a deed has less than a month of upkeep remaining.
  • Any deeds outside of chained influence will have on-deed mine doors take 3 times as much bashing damage.

Tower Conquest
Towers will no longer be able to be conquered to convert them to your kingdom. To remove a tower, you will have to bash/destroy it, then reconstruct a new one within your tower influence chain.

Bashing a tower will now spawn waves of guards when it reaches 30, 60, and 90 damage, and waves will become more challenging as the damage increases.

At 90 damage, the kingdom that owns the tower will get a message in the Deaths tab stating that the tower is under attack.When the tower is destroyed, there will be a global message to all kingdoms on the server that the tower has been destroyed.
 

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Some nice updates here, thank to the dev team.

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For template kingdoms, are the starter deed AND the capital counted as valid points to chain to or is it one or the other?

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Hi. I think 50-60 dmg should spawn the message that tower is under attack. At 90, depending on where it is, you will never get there in time. 

 

Will kingdom title still work and can you make it so if I have a kingdom title, it also creates a death tab message for me personally? 

 

Will there be some sort of message confirming a tower is chained when examining? 

 

Going forward after the update hits, it should be impossible to drop a deed unless tower is linked. This was the reason for chaining towers, will this be a feature? This is why we wanted tower chaining back to reduce random war deeds in middle of enemy lands. 

Edited by Mclavin
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4 minutes ago, Clova said:

For template kingdoms, are the starter deed AND the capital counted as valid points to chain to or is it one or the other?

Both will count as starting points for template kingdoms, only capitals for a PMK.

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8 minutes ago, Mclavin said:

Hi. I think 50-60 dmg should spawn the message that tower is under attack. At 90, depending on where it is, you will never get there in time. 

 

Will kingdom title still work and can you make it so if I have a kingdom title, it also creates a death tab message for me personally? 

 

Will there be some sort of message confirming a tower is chained when examining? 

 

Going forward after the update hits, it should be impossible to drop a deed unless tower is linked. This was the reason for chaining towers, will this be a feature? 

Can always change later down the line, think its going to stay at 90 damage to start.

The kingdom title will no longer display an early warning.

Towers and Tokens will tell you when examined if they are chained or not.

I'll have to check on the deed one that is a fair point.

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13 minutes ago, Mclavin said:

Will there be some sort of message confirming a tower is chained when examining?

Yeah this will be nice to know. Wurm is wurm, there is always some weird things around. Better need to be sure your towers are good :)

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5 minutes ago, valodis said:

Yeah this will be nice to know. Wurm is wurm, there is always some weird things around. Better need to be sure your towers are good :)


 

Quote

Towers and Tokens will tell you when examined if they are chained or not.


:D ye i was thinking same, glad its added

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48 minutes ago, Darklords said:

Can always change later down the line, think its going to stay at 90 damage to start.

The kingdom title will no longer display an early warning.


90 damage? if 5 people are bashing that it will be less than 5 minutes to take down. If we got NO early warning with kingdom titles anymore, it's basically a free tower bash.
If we're doing conquest, then give a message at 75-80 damage. We can say from Right now that a 90 DMG tower goes down so fast.
The old capping system gave us 10 minutes to respond and THAT was tight. And to get the tower back all you had to do was recap.
I don't want to have to keep rebuilding towers which takes 1-2 hours because enemy can walk around bashing important linked towers with Zero warning.
If you want to keep it 90 Damage, you should let us have Early warning with the kingdom title still.
if you don't want us to have No warning early, it needs to be 75 damage.

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90 damage seems extremely late notice. We'll see how it goes but that's like 5 - 10 minute notice depending on how many people are bashing and the location of the tower.

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2 minutes ago, Rudie said:

90 damage seems extremely late notice. We'll see how it goes but that's like 5 - 10 minute notice depending on how many people are bashing and the location of the tower.

Agreed, WU has like 50 people bashing same time including alts.

 

Towers don't grow on trees devs.

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You need to prevent Tower bashing whilst the gaurds are up. This will extend timer and will also stop the meta:

Of me telling 10 people to go away at 89 damage: Bashing with 5. Getting gaurds to spawn, aggro to my team of 5 and get the 10 players to return to continue bashing.
If bashing is disabled whilst gaurd waves are up, this will make it so you have to focus fighting and not bashing.

With gaurds spawning disabling the bash - The 90 Damage spawn of gaurds AND a death tab is ok. That gives players time to get ready.

 

bricks should be used to repair towers to stop alts running up to do repairs.

Edited by Mclavin

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1 hour ago, Retrograde said:
  • Any tower outside of chained influence will no longer respawn tower guards.
  • Any deeds outside of chained influence will respawn spirit guard waves 3 times slower.
  • Any deeds outside of chained influence will no longer have guards maintain fences, bridges, floors and walls - similar to when a deed has less than a month of upkeep remaining.
  • Any deeds outside of chained influence will have on-deed mine doors take 3 times as much bashing damage.

I highly doubt these 4 things are particularly bad. Honestly, i wouldn't even notice . Templars don't do anythnig they're useless either way, the fact that you will bash 3 times faster is still an extremely hard bash considering that on a steel mine door you deal 1 damage (Literally just one damage per bash) , like, wow you deal 3 damage instead... great.. still going to take hours to get anywhere. I think there needs to be worse restrictions for a deed outside your tower chain than this, this is a joke

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You should disable karma inside Enemy influence so players can't bash and karma. You want to travel into enemy lands then you take that risk. make influence block enemy karma. 

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  • any idea when the update will be out?

 

please make it so mine doors off deed take 10x damage including deeds with no towers, even with that change it would take 10 players hours of none stop right click bash to get in,  if you come on a pvp server you will see that every stores loot in mines because its so overpowered right now

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It would be cool if the alarm message was based on the distance from the starting point deed.

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think a locate soul for tower would help lol nt every one has every tower on the map marked and named ;/

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The tower chaining itself is a good change. However, there will definitely be issues with the change to alerts when towers are being bashed. Let’s break this down: 

 

For the past couple weeks I’ve held the kingdom title that allows me to see when towers are being bashed. With this title I’ve been alerted, almost immediately, of several towers under attack, and every time it was a struggle to find out which tower was being bashed, where it was located, and how we were going to contest it. Then there’s the issue of kingdom members being spread out across our lands, so they have to group up before you can even think about contesting. This all takes time, especially when you aren’t confined to a local or two of space on a server as large as Chaos.

 

We’re talking a good 5-10 minutes of figuring out which tower is being bashed, where it’s located, and what we’re going to do to contest it. Tack on another 10-15 minutes travel time, at least, just to get everyone grouped up at one deed, and we’re up to almost 30 minutes and we haven’t even gotten to the tower site yet! And with 10-15 bashers that tower (~80ql) is likely 70+ dmg by now, with the current system mind you. 

 

So now take the new system under the same scenario. You get the alert when the tower is at 90 damage, and the bashers get a wave of guards attacking them. By the time you figure out what tower is being bashed, where it’s located, how you’re going to contest it, and have your players grouped at the nearest deed, the tower AND it’s defenders will be long gone. Those 10 or so guards that spawned (I’m assuming 10) are just a nuisance with 10-15 bashers, and won’t take long to kill at all. 

 

I like the effort that was put into this, but can you see now how this new alert system isn’t going to work well? The reason we PvPers wanted capping removed is because it was way too quick for anyone to even bother trying to contest. With tower bashing as it is currently, if you have someone online with the proper title you are given just enough warning to do something about it, IF you have enough players online. With this new system you’re just bringing it in line with capping, which defeats the whole purpose. 

 

I suggest keeping the alerts as is, and simply adding the server wide message when the tower is destroyed. However, if you’re dead set on introducing this new alert system at least start the alerts at the first wave of guards (30dmg) to give ample time for contesting. 

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4 minutes ago, Dadamage said:

We use bricks to repair stone walls why not stone towers 

 

Agreed. At least rock shards. And each action would be 20dmg repairing max.

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Would like to confirm since no one else has asked that I noticed, this affects only Chaos and Elevation yeah?  Since home servers are 100% influence always and there is no tower warfare there

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When the influence chain gets broken, are the towers/deeds affected immediately? If so you should probably consider a "grace period." Maybe something around 12-24 hours. 

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The back-and-forth is why things usually go poorly with PvP feedback. If you guys can't be civil on a feedback thread, then don't comment. And yes, I'm directing that at you directly @JakeRivers - my opinion is that your comments served no purpose here and brought nothing to the table.

 

That said, having an external map is a form of meta. Hell, any tools or utilities outside of the game itself is technically meta. So I'm not happy with the solution being "go meta". So maybe there's more to look at here, @Darklords

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15 minutes ago, Keenan said:

The back-and-forth is why things usually go poorly with PvP feedback. If you guys can't be civil on a feedback thread, then don't comment. And yes, I'm directing that at you directly @JakeRivers - my opinion is that your comments served no purpose here and brought nothing to the table.

 

That said, having an external map is a form of meta. Hell, any tools or utilities outside of the game itself is technically meta. So I'm not happy with the solution being "go meta". So maybe there's more to look at here, @Darklords

 

So you are saying players making there own maps and keeping track of deeds and towers is too meta for the game?

 

You prefer no one to use maps ever? Good luck with that, map information is too important and a very big part of wurm, if its not maybe you need to delete all the links for player made maps off the wiki and stop doing map dumps, or provide a real time map update for wurm that shows deeds and towers and level the playing field for those not good at keeping track of important details, this would of course remove some aspect of strategy for expanding and planning out kingdoms.

 

One thing for sure, you can not expect the player base to be content with the poor in game map that lacks any type of accuracy when trying to pinpoint locations.

 

No matter what you come up with, good players will always have a superior solution to keeping track of resources.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

No matter what you come up with, good players will always have a superior solution to keeping track of resources. 

 

I'd much rather have an in-game system. Doesn't have to be perfect, just needs to be good enough.

 

And even if players come up with better solutions, decent in-game systems will help newer players get going. I don't like pointing newbies to out-of-game resources.

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