Hailene

Name and Shame: Oblivionnreaver

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Before anyone accuses me about being bitter about not getting anything, just note I didn't actually participate in the fight and I had absolutely zero chance of ever getting anything. I'm just frustrated that the a member of our ever shrinking community can still act this way.

 

A bit of background first. There's a Pristine/Release unique hunting group.  When a unique spawns on P/R,  hunters from the group go out, find,  pen, and host kills for the uniques. Of course there are other people hunting that are not part of the group. Oblivionnreaver was one of these rival groups.

 

Oblivionnreaver and the P/R hunting group have had a rough relationship for a long time. Buthis October Oblivionnreaver asked to formally join the group. There was disagreement on whether to let him in or not--several members left over it--but in the end he was let in. The population is dwindling and who has time to nurse grudges years old anymore, right?

 

This would be a good time to explain how loot was distributed in the years of the P/R group has been around. If a tome drops, then the group of people searching could reserve a single tome charge and roll amongst themselves. The rest of items (remaining charges, bone, skull, etc.) would be rolled freely for all members of the group.

 

Last week a dragon spawned on Pristine. Now that Oblivionnreaver is part of the group, he went out and looked for the dragon with all the other searchers. The searchers keep a map of Pristine and fill it out as they search it--so people can avoid searching places others have searched. In the end, Oblivionnreaver created a deed for the penned dragon.

 

The fight happens last weekend. The dragon is slain and a fantastic bone drops. Rather than distribute the loot as normal, Oblivionnreaver decides to keep the bone for himself.

 

When asked why he did that, he said thought that searchers could reserve one item from the loot list. When we clarified that a tome charge could be reserved but not any bones, he drops his thinly veiled attempt at following the rules and just admits he was going to take the bone regardless.

 

So there you have it. He didn't do anything against the rules--lying and deceit is not specifically outlawed. The bone really doesn't matter to me--I had no right to it, I wouldn't use it even if I somehow obtained it, and I have all the gold I need to do whatever I want--but it just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth how someone could ask to join a group and just take advantage of them basically as soon as he humanly could.

Just a headsup for anyone that saw the bone for sale. It has a bit of a complicated background.

 

P.S. I know that his group of friends is going to spring up and try to defend him. It's pretty typical for these kinds of groups to close ranks and shield each other. Do what you guys always do. As I have been told by a staff member, player agreements are non-binding. You just have to hope the other person isn't out to trick you because if they are...well, there's not much you can do about it after the fact.

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Well tbh, seems like Oblivion found the unique and penned it himself and entitled people just cry because of it.

And no, I ain't his friend.

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Just now, Sn00 said:

Well tbh, seems like Oblivion found the unique and penned it himself and entitled people just cry because of it.

 

Well, that's patently false since he cooperated with the rest of the searchers to find it. He was just the one to find and pen it first.

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3 minutes ago, Hailene said:

 

Well, that's patently false since he cooperated with the rest of the searchers to find it. He was just the one to find and pen it first.

 

It's Oblivionnreaver. Like he wasn't going to find and pen it first anyway...

 

And are you saying the P/R hunters put in all that work and silver into penning for potentially no recompense if no tome drops?

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3 minutes ago, Grumpled said:

And are you saying the P/R hunters put in all that work and silver into penning for potentially no recompense if no tome drops? 

 

Y^up. That's what they've been doing for years. Just a sense of community and fun of the hunt and penning.

 

Is that strange?

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3 minutes ago, Hailene said:

 

Y^up. That's what they've been doing for years. Just a sense of community and fun of the hunt and penning.

 

Is that strange?

That's why a total of 1 person (me!) actually did more than an hour of searching in the 5 or so hours the dragon was alive. because you actually lose money penning a dragon or drake compared to sitting on your deed and doing nothing. even humanoids you don't get a guaranteed tome for penning it from what i hear, coz thats how you find out loot works in the group its not written anywhere and maybe they were just trying to take my bone. maybe the reason nobody hunts and i had free reign to hunt uniques on your server for like half a  year lol

Edited by Oblivionnreaver

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I"ve seen friendships end over dragon drama, i've seen staff members roped into dragon drama.  It gets ugly because it shows the worst side of players in the drama as well as intent.  I remember a very funny movie i watched where a person's reputation was being tarnished, and the reply was "it's not the gossip that bothers me, it's the hypocrisy"  The server Groups that make group rules and attempt to take ownership of uniques that spawn on "their server" and who can and hunt, who can attend with contractual style agreement rule lists I find rich when these same people will go to another server and have no issue with hunting that server's uniques.  What's mine is mine, and yours is mine..interesting.  In the planning profession of urban development that i belong as part of there is a term "NIMBY"ism standing for not in my backyard.  it's the reverse of this situation in that..one will advocate for functions or uses or institutions to be placed as community resources, as long as it's not in their back yard, but somehow good enough for another's backyard..  chew on that a while, it brings up interesting food for thought.

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I mean, if you want to spend silver on dropping the deed and on a shaker orb in order for someone else who did nothing to get a rare bone or tome charge every single time (not to mention the painful hours of hunting), go ahead.

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3 minutes ago, Bloodscythe said:

The server Groups that make group rules and attempt to take ownership of uniques that spawn on "their server"

 

I'm not quite sure how that applies to this situation. Oblivionreaver asked to join the group. Isn't it pretty normal that a person joining a group would be expected to follow that group's rules? And if said person disagreed with the rules, surely they ought to leave that group and not stick around until they can gain whatever advantage they can from backstabbing the group they requested to join?


Or am I just crazy?

2 minutes ago, Grumpled said:

I mean, if you want to spend silver on dropping the deed and on a shaker orb in order for someone else who did nothing to get a rare bone or tome charge every single time (not to mention the painful hours of hunting), go ahead.

 

People did plenty of times. One of the things I like about Wurm that everything isn't about individual gain. I've helped plenty of people for free with hours of my time because that's the sort of place I'd like Wurm to be. And people have done the same to me as well.

Edited by Hailene

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2 minutes ago, Hailene said:

Isn't it pretty normal that a person joining a group would be expected to follow that group's rules?

I followed the group rules, the group rules said nothing about bones being required to be rolled among participants, and also says that the host manages loot rolls. when i found out that "i get choice of loot" is not the case i said the proverbial equivalent of "pound sand" and waited to be kicked. even if the bone was rare i would have done the exact same thing and i would have been kicked, but you wouldn't have been making this thread because it would have been a rare bone, so that's about the only difference.

 

If you expect me to give a fantastic bone to someone that didn't even hunt and hasn't hunted in months you're sadly mistaken, i'd have to put out a name and shame for how hard i got ripped off if that was the case

Edited by Oblivionnreaver

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I"m merely bringing up a set of ideas for consideration.  i"m not defending anyone here nor in the know of the situational facts.  I"m speaking to over arching practices over periods of time.  I've mentioned no names.  perhaps i needed to wait more for the fires to cool and peoples defensiveness to calm.  I'd not say you are crazy so it's silly to go from rational argument to specious leap of defending against crazy.  my guess is you are disapointed and bothered by what you feel is right and wrong and what people did and motives behind it..i can't speak to any of that, i wasn't there, not there, wouldn't dare be there.  I once stumbled upon a unique in the territory of said group to have it ripped from me and told it wasn't mine to have without knowing what my intention would be, having found it on my own.  After that experience i said it wasn't worth stepping foot there to go anywhere near a unique. very unpleasant, the open world sanbox is not a thing there not to mention GM central live there,  promote there, commune as a collective.

 

I'm someone that has played by the rules, tried to be helpful at every turn, yet its of no use when up against some obstacles.  You've seem fine to me over time.

Edited by Bloodscythe

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2 minutes ago, Bloodscythe said:

my guess is you are disapointed and bothered by what you feel is right and wrong and what people did and motives behind it

 

More or less. I just expected that someone follow rules and have the common decency to kind and fair to their fellow players. I may have been just living in a little Wurm bubble with friends and this sort of stuff just missed me.

 

In a lot of other games I'd figure this would just be par for the course, but maybe I just have higher expectations of Wurm and its community, I guess.

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Just now, Hailene said:

More or less. I just expected that someone follow rules and have the common decency to kind and fair to their fellow players.

Can't follow rules if they're not in the rules.

 

Look at it from the other side, if you just joined a group, there is no indication that you have to give up all loot to be rolled, and when you say what you got, suddenly everyones telling you "oh you gotta roll that its a spoken rule that you were never told of until now" you'd blindly follow it?

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In all honesty I think a fantastic bone would be the perfect opportunity for an exception to any guidelines that dictate loot rolls. 

 

He also put in far more effort and time in locating the unique, as well as penning and deeding it. 

 

I myself have had issue with the P&R group hunting because it feels like more people complaining about loot than hunting (as your post starts, you did neither)

 

From the 3-4 hunters that each unique attracts, most ride around their general area mousing over a few likely spots before heading home. Putting in the time and dedication to travel on a priest casting reveal creatures with a ton of vesselled gems is likely to prove more effective. I figured accepting him into the group was to avoid any unnecessary drama over uniques being stolen, he's worked well with the group and handled it as per P&R guidelines, getting a fantastic bone was not expected, and if it were a rare bone you could not honestly declare you'd be this upset over it. 

 

If he wasnt a part of the group, nothing would have changed. 

Edited by Archaed

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1 minute ago, Archaed said:

In all honesty I think a fantastic bone would be the perfect opportunity for an exception to any guidelines that dictate loot rolls.  

 

I actually agree with that. A fair roll between all searchers and penners would have been quite reasonable, I think.

Let the people that actually worked reap the biggest benefits.

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actually no i just searched my logs

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here i am asking for how loot is done, i am told NO GUIDELINES not a single person at this slaying corrected them

 

i am 99% sure you are bullshitting me to try and get someone in the group a fantastic bone

Edited by Oblivionnreaver

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4 minutes ago, Hailene said:

I actually agree with that. A fair roll between all searchers and penners would have been quite reasonable, I think.

In that case, I won the roll for the blue tome, which meant the bone would have gone to me. 

 

In that case, I offer to trade the fantastic bone (which was rightfully mine as I won the other roll) to OR for a rare dirt

 

In all honesty, those who actually searched may be completely understanding of this situation, and are happy to let OR have it, it's a rare opportunity to get a fantastic bone, so congrats to him. 

 

If any searcher has an issue, perhaps they should be the one to say so? 

Edited by Archaed

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Again Really ?! Grats on the bone oblivionnreaver

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13 minutes ago, Archaed said:

In that case, I won the roll for the blue tome, which meant the bone would have gone to me. 

 

In that case, I offer to trade the fantastic bone (which was rightfully mine as I won the other roll) to OR for a rare dirt

 

Would you still have that tome charge to give up to be rolled for the rest of the group?
 

13 minutes ago, Archaed said:

If any searcher has an issue, perhaps they should be the one to say so?  

 

I'll ask around. Let me see if I can get them to say their piece on the forum.

 

Anywho, bed time for me. I'll check up on this tomorrow.

Edited by Hailene

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Literally all u can do is kick him from your sorry mess of a hunting group, although i don't think he's gonna care and will keep finding all the uniques nontheless

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I'm not a friend of Oblivion yet i see no reason why you'd have to name and shame him. That is crazy. Yo say, you've been hunting together. Let's say that I even consider "not finding" an unique as some part of hunting it. (Well, not helpful at all info, is always better than none). But it was Oblivion, who found it afterall, it was him who penned it, ot was him who set up a deed and organised the event. How would anyone even dare, to demand rights to such a high valuable treasure for not doing pretty much anything? Just because someone wrote some strange rules and few others agreed? And where in these rules is any mention of bones? How one would even dare... that's beyond my imagination.

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12 minutes ago, Hailene said:

Would you still have that tome charge to give up to be rolled for the rest of the group?

One tome charge may be reserved, it doesn't need to be rolled 

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This also brings to mind a favorite childhood fairy tale story of mine.  "The Little Red Hen"  This is a good lil tale to read at any time in your lives, it never becomes outdated in it's relevancy.

 

another good one is "who moved my cheese" popular for organizations dealing with change and adaptation to it.

 

Edited by Bloodscythe

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