Hailene

Name and Shame: Oblivionnreaver

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30 minutes ago, Hailene said:

I actually agree with that. A fair roll between all searchers and penners would have been quite reasonable, I think.


Didnt he find and pen it alone?

 

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Now that Oblivionnreaver is part of the group, he went out and looked for the dragon

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In the end, Oblivionnreaver created a deed for the penned dragon. 

 

 

/roll 1

Bam, problem solved

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51 minutes ago, Hailene said:

 

I'm not quite sure how that applies to this situation. Oblivionreaver asked to join the group. Isn't it pretty normal that a person joining a group would be expected to follow that group's rules? And if said person disagreed with the rules, surely they ought to leave that group and not stick around until they can gain whatever advantage they can from backstabbing the group they requested to join?


Or am I just crazy?

 

 

Gotta laugh here. Sorry. Your rules state something to the effect of "must be a resident of this server 90% of the time (or some absurd amount) with primary deed on this server. You had NO problem ignoring WRITTEN rules to allow him in, but you complain about IMPLIED rules not being followed.

 

Is the only reason you let him into your group was because you knew he'd find them anyway? Nobody (currently) in Wurm hunts uniques like he does, and you know it. 

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@Hailene

 

This is a great example of why "hunting groups" are nothing more than glorified cesspools of drama. Oblivionnreaver, one of the most successful and well known unique hunters in Wurm is being accused of using the intel and the aid of a so called hunting group to obtain this specific unique. It is impossible that this greatly succesful unique hunter could had possibly found the unique on his own and penned it without the help of the p/r hunting group. Its not like the group allowed him im due to his reknowed success at hunting, and the prospect that he could single handedly increase their chances of of obtaining more uniques. /end sarcasm.

 

I don't see anything wrong on the part of Oblivionn. I only see a butt hurt, jealous, toxic community doing everything in their power to try to steal something that does not belong to them. Every single hunting group out there PVP or otherwise, gives the bone to the finder. Every group. This is understood, as the person penning the unique has to drop the deed and do the penning. What if this unique had dropped the fantastic bone and nothing else of value? Would your team expect the bone to be rolled on thus leaving the person who penned it holding the bag for the deed fee? That's some shady stuff right there. Very inconsiderate of your part.

 

No. Your group had clearly specified rules, selected by your own group, that left the bone out. You had no rules about the bone. By your own admission you have been breaking these rules constantly, and then tried to use "the spirit of the rule" to try and force Oblivionn to give up his reward because of some alturistic sense of justice for your dumb, toxic group who had no right to the drop by your own standards and rules. You basicly use the rules when it suits you, and dismiss them when they don't. So if anyone here is not following the rules is your own group.

 

And then you run to the communty to try and pretend that you were wronged and abused by ruining his auction thread, accusing him falsely of violating your #### community rules, and then changing your narrative when everyone realizes how you been lying. and trying to allude to some misguided sense of "justice". No bro. That's not how things work.

 

Maybe you should reevaluate how you do business. You dont call out people out because you effed up. You own up your mistake, change/fix your rules to match what you want, salute the man for his cleverness (and boot him from your group) and move on. Hell, I like to consider myself one of the most straightforward and trusted people to do business with in this community, and if it was me getting the bone, I would had told you to go pound sand just like Oblivonn did. 

 

Oh and by the way, I am not Oblivionn's friend. In fact, I don't even like the guy. Him and me have been at odds on several ocassions and he is a terribly price gouging trader. But I like less some random unknown trying to trash someone else's reputation because of their overblown sense of self importance. If you are going to call out someone, make sure you use factual, reliable information and not some half baked sense of justice you and your booger eating gaggle of cretins came up with. Get out of here with that stuff.

Edited by Angelklaine

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What a mess, if I was in Oblivionnreaver's shoes I would have taken the bone, he is super entitled to it.

I don't understand why you would create a name and shame thread Hailene, by doing so you have only made wurm a darker place for a bit, not everything in this game is a charity event. Yes, Wurm Online is a game where people help each other very often but that rule cannot apply all the time, especially in this case, like I said, not a charity event.

This is no way to solve problems.

Edited by Wiolo

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I find it hilarious when groups claim they own uniques on a server when at any moment a large group from another one could just show up and yoink it and the home group wouldnt be able to do anything lol. Funny world is it not? 🤔

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ugh, they should just give out free fantastic bones and tomes to everyone, then the unique drama would finally go.

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@Devs Make peace in this community once and for all.. rework unique loot drops (2019 goal)

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15 minutes ago, faty said:

@Devs Make peace in this community once and for all.. rework unique loot drops (2019 goal)

Imo it doesn't need a rework it's totaly fine like now. If you want to stop argues and make peace, let's rework people... otherwise you won't stop it anyway. 

Why someome who only attended a slaying, should get anything better than one who caught it? 

Why someone who did nothing (landing few hit among dozens other players is almost like nothing) should get anything? Even actual distribution of blood and hide is imo terrible. It should be at least rewarded to only those who succesfuly landed a hit. 

 

On other hand... what stops me or you Sir, from going to hunt a unique and slay it? Nothing but lazyness. 

 

Oblivion is a player like me or you Sir, so we can do exactly the same. 

 

Why we all expect rewards and treasure handed to us on silver plate?

 

Finally, why most of people wants to take away high rewards from real Wurms veterans? There must be something that rewards high and long term game knowledge, not possible to get for those who don't even wanna spend few days or weeks trying. Devs already took away all the pleasure from winning the game, it means nothing now. Leave at least something that rewards long term passion and commitment to Wurm.

 

Oblivion works really hard to get what he gets. Hard work pays out it seems. Lack of work, doesn't. Simple as that.

Edited by Alkhadias

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grats on the bone Obliv, greatness goes to great people.

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I have no dog in this fight.  No allies or adversaries in wurm. 

 

Id like to believe I know what I’d do if and when I can find and trap a unique.  But that has not been tested yet.  

 

After reading comments, I still reserve a positive view of both you and Oblivion.   

 

But to me, this is an internal squabble amongst those involved.   Sort it out at the lowest possible level.   Everything decays, everything respawns.  Momento mori. 

 

Those who can take, take, because they put themselves in the position to decide that.  That is a valid authority, regardless of perspective.     The fact he inquired about procedures is an absolution of any implied dishonesty, and im my view was a courtesy if nothing else.  

 

Good luck to all.  Enjoy your day on purpose.  

Edited by Arishok
Grammer

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I'd like to say my two cents here. I've personally been looking at the P&R rules and rewording them in such a way that nothing one could have once taken as common sense, or the done thing in our community is left out. Following on from this bone dropping, I've added that a fantastic bone may be reserved by those that penned it if they want to. The rules we had at the time did not state anywhere exactly what was to be expected to be rolled separate from the penners. It was stated that a tome charge could be reserved but was not explicit in saying only this. 

 

This aside, I congratulate Oblivion on his swift capture of the dragon and hosting of the event and further congratulate him on getting the bone.

 

As well as the OP I was too not present for the fight and wouldn't have been eligible for any roll. This particular dragon spawned while I was at work and so couldn't search, it was penned while I was at work the same day and killed a few days later, also while I was at work. 

 

I would also like to thank Oblivionnreaver for penning and hosting the kill for the P&R group. I apologise if anything I said came across as bitter, jealous or rude. Heat of the moment and defending my community made me say things I probably wouldn't have after giving the situation further thought. As I've said previously, good luck with your auction and future sayings. 

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To me it only makes sense that the finder keeps bone And is able to reserve a tome roll, among other searchers, or he's paying for deed, shaker out of pocket. 

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The Pr dragon group has been silly for a long time now and been used to prevent/leverage/blackmail dragons from outsiders while allowing it's members free access to other peoples dragons. The fact the leaders can freely invite their friends from off server to hunts has been just one of the many reasons PR has a problem with their hunts. Another would be that most people don't hunt and then expect to be invited. A third is that they have historically screamed bloody murder if someone did a private hunt on PR and then joined as many private hunts off PR as they could.

A massive rewrite of the PR hunting rules would be needed, but that'll only work if they're actually followed through by everyone involved. If not then it's just a little more make up on the pig. I have no respect for the PR cartel because they make/break their own rules at their convenience and have for a long time. It's amazing what you see go around and come around if you play in wurm long enough *shrug*

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It's a shame to see that a group with a good intention in the start (to allow access to unique slayings to as many players as possible) turned into a group of exclusion and greed.  At some point the rules stated that no "outsiders" were allowed, and you were not allowed to join non-group slayings, the exact opposite of the original intention. Many times the words thieves, poachers, cartels, griefers and more are used to describe people from off-server. Yet in the same breath, you may do whatever you please on other servers. What is bad to do to me, is okay to do to others, because they're not in my alliance. The rules also explicitly states that dragon slayings may never be made public, yet other private parties are the devil.

 

I was invited to join the new group as the old one was disbanded. Thanks, but as an outside poaching thief, I'll stay out of the communist manifesto that's going on here.

 

 

You're shaming the guy that has been doing more public slayings than anyone has recently, making him out to be the bad guy for keeping a piece of loot when you decided the implied rules were important this time.

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This name and shame thread is for the mechanics of dragon slaying.  The dev's need to step up and change it. 

I say give a dog his bone.  LOL

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That PR group is the biggest pack of hypocrites in all of wurm, keep up the good work you being you.

 

A bone is a bone is a bone, none of this would of been an issue over a regular bone, you just have to chirp up when the greed factor kicks in.

 

Please change the title to Name and Shame the PR Group

 

 

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Thus it has always been in Wurm when gameplay can be converted into RL currency and substitutes for it within the game. Those who benefit from it will always attempt to find ways to justify it's continuance in game coding and structures. Review Wurm's history and you will find this to be the case. The only way this can be rectified is within the Developer's hands. Again, you can see this has been the case in the past when adjustments were made to reduce monopolistic control of certain potential cash equivalents. This is the underlying problem here that some (many?) would wish to avoid being addressed since they have tailored their gameplay to make the best advantage to benefit from this structure.

 

An equitable game coded distribution system for these Dragon cash cowies needs to be established by the Developers. Until this happens those who devote their game time to making $$ from it will continue to do so to the deprivation of game content and enjoyment of others. All we see here is a symptom of the disease which needs to be addressed. All this silly bantering is just a distraction from the real issue. Even players who have no interest in these profits should ponder its negative impact upon the game.

 

Happy Trails

=Ayes=

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@Votip

Your bottom drawing looks like a daranged muppet.  

 

@Ayes

I am really interested in how the proposed litDark changes will affect this.  Niarj shows many untouched uniques - months and years. That change might bring more players out of deeds and more uniques in to spotlight.    

 

I think the developers have done a pretty damned good job keeping inflation controlled.  And it doesnt appear to be properly recognized.   It difficult to do and has ruined many games, especially long running ones.  Real world money, despite ills it may bring, is a solid and stable reserve currency for MMOs.  It is clear from actions they have taken over the years that they recognize some deep rooted, and common to mmo, issues.   From the money sinks they've implemented and the coin drops  from digging/animal slaughter - while limiting it to money in coffers - appears to be working as intended.   The only move my simple mind can see is opening wider availability to these uniques: enter litdark changes.  

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I once belonged to the PnR group, and it was the inability to consistently follow the rules as they were documented and verbally outlined to me that led to my leaving.  I'd rather hunt alone with the smidgen of a chance I will find a unique than to continue to follow the trail of greed(not just the PnR group I will clarify).  You honestly cannot name and shame someone for not following rules when rules were bent/broken/twisted to allow them into the group, and NOT the first time for the sake of a captured unique waiting to be slain.

 

I would like to comment that the odds of redistribution of unique loot is a pipe dream as many of those who are charged with making said changes already have set ties with the rewards of the current system, frequenting the vast majority of private kills as well as public ones.  If you believe they will back away from these opportunities I have some ocean front property in Arizona I will sell you cheap. 

 

Have a nice day!

 

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7 hours ago, ChampagneDragon said:

You had NO problem ignoring WRITTEN rules to allow him in, but you complain about IMPLIED rules not being followed.

 

 Does he just prowl other servers for uniques? I didn't realize he had so much time on his hands.

 

7 hours ago, Archaed said:

One tome charge may be reserved, it doesn't need to be rolled 

 

I thought one charge may be reserved and is rolled amongst the searchers?

 

7 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

accused of using the intel and the aid of a so called hunting group to obtain this specific unique. It

 

That's the crux of it all. If he hadn't ASKED to join the group, joined the group, used the group's intel, and then ran off with the bone then this would have been fine.

 

If he never joined the group then he fully deserves everything, right? But if you join a group on your own freewill and then willingly break that group's rules, surely there should be some repercussion, right?

 

7 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

. By your own admission you have been breaking these rules constantly,

 

What? Have you been talking to someone else again?

 

6 hours ago, Alkhadias said:

Why we all expect rewards and treasure handed to us on silver plate?

 

If someone joins a group they should be expected to follow the expectations of the group. The issue isn't he penned the dragon and kept the bone for himself. The issue is that he joined the group and broke the rules of the group.

 

1 hour ago, Ayes said:

Even players who have no interest in these profits should ponder its negative impact upon the game. 

 

I agree 100% here. The group we had shattered--again--over more drama. Not only the drama of his joining but this all fiasco with the bone.

Several of the members of my alliance have said they just flat out refuse to go to hunts now because of the drama. I think I'll start doing the same.

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what do you expect from oblivionreaver lol, you must be blind if you cant see where it goes and how his "rolls" works

 

and you cant do anything with it anyway, there are his minions who tell he is right

Edited by Pankivtanke

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2 minutes ago, Hailene said:

 

If someone joins a group they should be expected to follow the expectations of the group. The issue isn't he penned the dragon and kept the bone for himself. The issue is that he joined the group and broke the rules of the group.

 

 

 

So EVERYONE purposely ignoring the written rules constantly - they've been changed several times because of members breaking them, and him being added against those very rules, is not an issue worthy of a thread, or even a mention. But it's worthy of a name and shame thread when he does it, suddenly the rules are to never be broken - rules that aren't even written? Let's not kid ourselves, a while back we had a slaying where someone new to the group took the rare bone from a unique that was penned. He thought that was okay to do to pay for the shaker orb and deed. He got a slap on the wrist - I wont say their name here - you can surely scroll up some in the pms and find what I'm talking about. But nobody had an issue with it at all, then, he got to keep the bone and it was never spoken of again. But here's a fantastic bone, there's nothing in the rules about it, and suddenly we have a giant issue.

 

Either you're on a personal crusade against him, or this is very much so about the fact it's a fantastic bone and it's value. Otherwise, I will PM you the name of the previous person who did this and you can go ahead and start a thread about them, too.

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