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Angelklaine

Master Crafter Modifications

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2 hours ago, Hailene said:

How about at 90, 95, and 99 you can select one modification you can use for that respective skill. At 100 you get two because that is a crazy hard thing.

 

It gives some potential for people to specialize and more incentive for people to trade, too.

 

I might be able to add more damage to weapons but I need to ask my equally skilled neighbor to create a bash damage large maul for my construction needs.

Really need to do something more than just a title for 100.  This would be a great way to do it.  What is the grind time from 1-90 vs 90-100?  How many other 90 skills did that person have to give up to achieve the lofty 100?  If someone already has reached 100 in that skill, you don't even get the pleasure of picking the title name, so really, why bother?  Grinding uses up resources.  Incentive to grind improves economy.  Incentive to upgrade gear improves economy.  Having unique rare abilities keeps tired old players more interested in sticking around and NOT selling off their alts.

 

The OP system with 100 level extra incentives is a great option, but honestly, if not this, then at least do something worth while for the 100 skills.

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20 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

All modifications are unlocked once a crafter has become a master in their profession (reaches 90 skill)

 

Can you expand on what you mean there?

First concern I had was that people in the business of buying and selling accounts really don't need further reasons to increase business.  If something is only available at 90 and above, it would seem to only confound the problem.  Given the prices, it doesn't really seem we need more reasons to buy accounts.

 

Cooking affinities, for example, are always there no matter what level you are.  Sure, not terribly useful when it only lasts 5 minutes, and 90 skill totally rocks... but it's a matter of degree.  The availability is not absolute, but a matter of degree.

Or animal husbandry.  I can breed horses at any level.  They'll be mongrels maybe, but matter of degree again.

 

I'd have to -1 this if it is only available at all to 90+.

If it is what I think seems to be more common in Wurm, and a matter of degree, with further modifications/specializations becoming available as your character grows, then +1.

 

Lastly, I presume the %'s are secondary to the idea itself, but just want to raise the notion that perhaps 25% is a lot for any modification?

 

I lied, that wasn't last :P  The last thing is I really like how well thought out your list is, and how the names of the modifications make sense with their effect.  Well done!

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44 minutes ago, Reylaark said:

First concern I had was that people in the business of buying and selling accounts really don't need further reasons to increase business.  If something is only available at 90 and above, it would seem to only confound the problem.

 

That's one reason I'd want to tie such a bonus system to titles. So, just for example, to build on the "Sturdy" modifier:

 

With the 50 title, 5% less damage taken;

With the 70, 10% less;

With 90, 15%;

With 100, 20%.

 

(Or something like that.)

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Ok I have gone over the replies and I am going to look and respond to some of the controversial ones (in my opinion!). Here goes.

 

9 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Sindusks comments were about WU mods, not WO, and he didnt necro it. 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the gist of this is an advanced skill locked rune system?

 

It strikes me as double stacking runes if your skill is 90+. but the second rune cannot be removed in any way 

Yes and no. In some places it works like runes, but in others it provides bonuses that are not already provided by runes unless I am missing something. Why did I choose this system? Because it falls within the current available game mechanics and is a good solution to many complaints from players about runes. It doesnt require a massive overhaul of the current system, doesn't require new items to be created, and has a lot of room for modification from the devs with things they like/not like. The idea is to push something their way and have them cherry pick what they like from it.

 

Currently there is very little incentive to grind past 90. Most people have grown used to 85ql items as the meta, so I believe this goes along that line. Giving players something else to do other than massive grind 85ql items is a step in the right direction.

 

7 hours ago, kochinac said:

I generally like the idea of unlocking possibilities with different skills caps expecially between 90 and 99. But with rune system this seems a bit overstretched and way too easy (unless it's not only 90 skill but gradually between 90-99). But still even with that, why? I would rather see rune system offering some more useful runes. There are very few runes people commonly use, and the rest which idk if are ever used by someone... Moonmetal runes often being to expensive for its benefits, never actually try using one to see the difference though

Maybe unlock making + one or two rune slots with skills over 90 on tool?

I have thought about tiered unlocks, but I have another idea in mind which would be easier to implement. I'm going to give it some thought and modify my original post when I'm ready.

 

6 hours ago, Roccandil said:

+1 to the basic idea, but I'd consider implementing it via the title system:

 

1) Unlock title via skillgain;

2) Complete unique title goals so you can use title's unique power;

3) Start master crafting while using that title.

 

This means the most powerful versions of the additions would be bound to the level 100 title, while the weakest ones would be available at title 50. It also means there would be something to keep shooting for after level 100 in a skill. :)

 

Finally, you wouldn't easily be able to craft these powerful additions on more than one or two types of item (since we have two title slots): you would need to specialize. (I figure there'd be a cooldown for switching title powers.)

I like the idea of using titles to unlock stuff. I'll think on this a little and see what can be done. 

 

I thought about doing 50/70/90 for unlocking traits, but I ran into the problem of which traits would unlock what. Given there are only 20 traits and not all of them work with all items, it would be rather moot to have 50 skill unlock, say, Seeded for farming. What will the farmer get a 70? 90? 100? Tiering the gains per craft would require me to create more bonuses than my mind can actually come up with, so I scrapped it.

 

5 hours ago, Hailene said:

How about at 90, 95, and 99 you can select one modification you can use for that respective skill. At 100 you get two because that is a crazy hard thing.

 

It gives some potential for people to specialize and more incentive for people to trade, too.

 

I might be able to add more damage to weapons but I need to ask my equally skilled neighbor to create a bash damage large maul for my construction needs.

Same as the prior one. I ran out of ideas. Simple as that.

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2 hours ago, Wurmhole said:

Really need to do something more than just a title for 100.  This would be a great way to do it.  What is the grind time from 1-90 vs 90-100?  How many other 90 skills did that person have to give up to achieve the lofty 100?  If someone already has reached 100 in that skill, you don't even get the pleasure of picking the title name, so really, why bother?  Grinding uses up resources.  Incentive to grind improves economy.  Incentive to upgrade gear improves economy.  Having unique rare abilities keeps tired old players more interested in sticking around and NOT selling off their alts.

 

The OP system with 100 level extra incentives is a great option, but honestly, if not this, then at least do something worth while for the 100 skills.

There are so few people at 100 level and its so hard to get there that most players wont. Locking game content out of someone just because we want to give a handful of people something nice to play with is not ideal.

 

2 hours ago, Reylaark said:

 

Can you expand on what you mean there?

First concern I had was that people in the business of buying and selling accounts really don't need further reasons to increase business.  If something is only available at 90 and above, it would seem to only confound the problem.  Given the prices, it doesn't really seem we need more reasons to buy accounts.

 

Cooking affinities, for example, are always there no matter what level you are.  Sure, not terribly useful when it only lasts 5 minutes, and 90 skill totally rocks... but it's a matter of degree.  The availability is not absolute, but a matter of degree.

Or animal husbandry.  I can breed horses at any level.  They'll be mongrels maybe, but matter of degree again.

 

I'd have to -1 this if it is only available at all to 90+.

If it is what I think seems to be more common in Wurm, and a matter of degree, with further modifications/specializations becoming available as your character grows, then +1.

 

Lastly, I presume the %'s are secondary to the idea itself, but just want to raise the notion that perhaps 25% is a lot for any modification?

 

I lied, that wasn't last :P  The last thing is I really like how well thought out your list is, and how the names of the modifications make sense with their effect.  Well done!

%s are just a suggestion. It can be raised and lowered depending on what the devs want. Its not set in stone. It is a completely arbitrary decision on my part reflection on what I thought would be fair.

 

As for the rest I believe I covered it on the prior post.

 

Also I'd like to add, the fact that accounts are bought and sold have nothing to do with this post. That's another issue to discuss and should have no effect on development decisions imho.

Edited by Angelklaine

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I think locking accounts to certain abilities would be good--for the economy and for people leveling up their own accounts. The economy because people will have more to trade and even better the fact that some super accounts with 90+ skills in everything can't monopolize the market.

 

Furthermore, it will give incentive people to level up their own accounts because the specifically linked improvements to any particular account may not match exactly what a buyer is looking for.

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1 minute ago, Hailene said:

I think locking accounts to certain abilities would be good--for the economy and for people leveling up their own accounts. The economy because people will have more to trade and even better the fact that some super accounts with 90+ skills in everything can't monopolize the market.

 

Furthermore, it will give incentive people to level up their own accounts because the specifically linked improvements to any particular account may not match exactly what a buyer is looking for.

Thats not the subject of this suggestion. Lets stick to the topic please.

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1 minute ago, Angelklaine said:

Thats not the subject of this suggestion. Lets stick to the topic please.

 

If that's the case, then I'm going to have to give this a big -1. As it currently is, it just gives more power to high level accounts (I would know, I'm one of them). It fails to differentiate crafters (which just leads to things being ever more top heavy). This leads to the same old accounts being constantly recycled through the game and disincentives people to grind up their skills.

 

-1

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What about becoming a master crafter is like a priest or meditation path and can only do one at a time.

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7 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

I thought about doing 50/70/90 for unlocking traits, but I ran into the problem of which traits would unlock what. Given there are only 20 traits and not all of them work with all items, it would be rather moot to have 50 skill unlock, say, Seeded for farming. What will the farmer get a 70? 90? 100? Tiering the gains per craft would require me to create more bonuses than my mind can actually come up with, so I scrapped it.

 

Ya, I wouldn't try to come up with unique traits for all titles within a skill. I'd scale the bonuses, and maybe include multiple bonuses. So, for instance:

 

Farming (while using title):

 

50: +1 crop

70: +2 crop

90: +3 crop

100: +5 crop

 

Shieldsmithing (while using title):

 

50: 2.5% QL per imp, 2.5% less damage taken modifier on shields created (say, a sturdy large metal shield)

70: 5% QL per imp, 5% less damage taken (an improved sturdy large metal shield, or if that's too much, a rugged large metal shield)

90: 7.5% QL per imp, 7.5% less damage taken (a masterwork sturdy large metal shield, or a reinforced large metal shield)

100: 15% QL per imp, 15% less damage taken (a legendary sturdy large metal shield, or an indestructible large metal shield)

 

The "modifier of a modifier" nomenclature is probably clunky (especially if you throw the rarity system on top of it!). But using different names to represent the scaling (sturdy/rugged/reinforced/indestructible) could also work.

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4 hours ago, nicedreams said:

What about becoming a master crafter is like a priest or meditation path and can only do one at a time.

 

Yes, that was my line of thinking too (based on how armorsmithing titles work now).

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8 hours ago, Hailene said:

 

If that's the case, then I'm going to have to give this a big -1. As it currently is, it just gives more power to high level accounts (I would know, I'm one of them). It fails to differentiate crafters (which just leads to things being ever more top heavy). This leads to the same old accounts being constantly recycled through the game and disincentives people to grind up their skills.

 

-1

Looking this way, every improvment of end game would bring more power to high level accounts, so we should stop improving end game.

 

ofc +1 to the original suggestion

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1 hour ago, Roccandil said:

 

Ya, I wouldn't try to come up with unique traits for all titles within a skill. I'd scale the bonuses, and maybe include multiple bonuses. So, for instance:

 

Farming (while using title):

 

50: +1 crop

70: +2 crop

90: +3 crop

100: +5 crop

 

Shieldsmithing (while using title):

 

50: 2.5% QL per imp, 2.5% less damage taken modifier on shields created (say, a sturdy large metal shield)

70: 5% QL per imp, 5% less damage taken (an improved sturdy large metal shield, or if that's too much, a rugged large metal shield)

90: 7.5% QL per imp, 7.5% less damage taken (a masterwork sturdy large metal shield, or a reinforced large metal shield)

100: 15% QL per imp, 15% less damage taken (a legendary sturdy large metal shield, or an indestructible large metal shield)

 

The "modifier of a modifier" nomenclature is probably clunky (especially if you throw the rarity system on top of it!). But using different names to represent the scaling (sturdy/rugged/reinforced/indestructible) could also work.

This whole thing is what I was thinking of adding, but it might throw off the bonus system off balance, which is why I said I need to think on this a bit more. This is more along the lines of what I wanted to do. 

 

I want to avoid "automatic" benefits just for having high skill, and instead make it like a toggle that costs you something (Source Crystals in this case) to prevent someone just mass producing items and devaluating the market. If you are forced to use source crystals or some other kind of consumable, it will limit the amount you can make on one sitting, and will also limit the amount of rares that will be produced with it as well to how much source crystals you can get. I think it gives it a feeling of uniqueness if one of those items actually become rare.

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6 hours ago, nicedreams said:

What about becoming a master crafter is like a priest or meditation path and can only do one at a time.

Maybe. But that would require an entire new system to be cooked up. Not what I want with this system.

 

Good idea though, maybe I can come up with it on a different suggestion. Skill specializations. Hmmm....

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13 minutes ago, Wilczan said:

Looking this way, every improvment of end game would bring more power to high level accounts, so we should stop improving end game.

 

A rising tide lift all boats. You can create content for high end toons that benefit or scale lower level toons more.

 

Or you could allow low level toons feed into the end game content. Look at Eve Online as an example. They have enormous ships that take months or years or farming. But it still uses a crapton of easily farmed mats from newbies.

 

Hence a new late game ship, while ostensibly for huge corporations, is still content for newbies as it creates ever greater demand for the ore they farm.

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2 hours ago, Hailene said:

 

A rising tide lift all boats. You can create content for high end toons that benefit or scale lower level toons more.

 

Or you could allow low level toons feed into the end game content. Look at Eve Online as an example. They have enormous ships that take months or years or farming. But it still uses a crapton of easily farmed mats from newbies.

 

Hence a new late game ship, while ostensibly for huge corporations, is still content for newbies as it creates ever greater demand for the ore they farm.

There is nothing wrong with making content for endgame accounts. The purpose of this thread is to bring something to those who have reached the "end game" and suddenly find themselves with nothing special to do. A level 80 blacksmith player can create 85ql tools, just as a 90ql player can create 90ql tools. The difference is both will probably make 85ql tools since that's what most people use anyways. 

 

The whole point is to have something come out of reaching that 90 treshold other than a shiny title. The fact that this content is made for end game players does not mean that content has to be created for those who are lower tier. Nothing here stops anyone from coming up with ideas to do that. 

 

You are welcome to create a suggestion of things you'd like for lower level players. However, that's not the focus of my suggestion, and thus is something I do not really intend to touch with my idea. Instead of coming here and bashing my idea because it doesn't carter to new players, why don't you bring up an idea of your own? The more the merrier.

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7 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

I want to avoid "automatic" benefits just for having high skill, and instead make it like a toggle that costs you something (Source Crystals in this case) to prevent someone just mass producing items and devaluating the market. If you are forced to use source crystals or some other kind of consumable, it will limit the amount you can make on one sitting, and will also limit the amount of rares that will be produced with it as well to how much source crystals you can get. I think it gives it a feeling of uniqueness if one of those items actually become rare. 

 

I'd like activated titles to provide automatic benefits (imp QL, for instance), but I see your point on crafting superior items. I wouldn't mind if an activated title gave you the option to craft superior items with a consumable, to do exactly what you say.

 

For that matter, would be cool if to create a superior item you needed to use a rare material (lump/shard/dirt/log/etc., any QL), and each rare material type granted a different bonus, so those rare sandstone and slate shards would actually be worth something. (Yeah, I'm going crazy again! :) )

 

So, to craft a superior longsword, I'd need the blade, the handle, and a rare something. So "sturdy" might be granted by a rare steel lump.

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5 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

Instead of coming here and bashing my idea because it doesn't carter to new players,

 

I wasnt aware we werent allowed to critique suggestions in the suggestion forums nor offer possible solutions for said critiques.

 

Right now the top end of the market is just filled with 95/99 skilled crafters. Just adding another bell or whistle wont add much more except increase power creep.

 

In other words, it would make the game worse for adding your suggestion. At least in my opinion. 

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4 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

There is nothing wrong with making content for endgame accounts. The purpose of this thread is to bring something to those who have reached the "end game" and suddenly find themselves with nothing special to do. A level 80 blacksmith player can create 85ql tools, just as a 90ql player can create 90ql tools. The difference is both will probably make 85ql tools since that's what most people use anyways. 

 

The whole point is to have something come out of reaching that 90 treshold other than a shiny title. The fact that this content is made for end game players does not mean that content has to be created for those who are lower tier. Nothing here stops anyone from coming up with ideas to do that. 

 

You are welcome to create a suggestion of things you'd like for lower level players. However, that's not the focus of my suggestion, and thus is something I do not really intend to touch with my idea. Instead of coming here and bashing my idea because it doesn't carter to new players, why don't you bring up an idea of your own? The more the merrier.

 

What you're suggesting certainly incentivizes and rewards the trudge to 90+ skills.  I'm really not bashing the idea, myself, on the contrary.  It made me think of SWG crafting a bit, for some random reason.  Safe to say that's always an immediate +1 in my book.

 

Content only available to the highly skilled makes a lot of sense, it's just hard to draw the distinction between content of a mechanic being exclusive rather than making the whole mechanic itself exclusive, if that makes sense.

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1 hour ago, Reylaark said:

 

What you're suggesting certainly incentivizes and rewards the trudge to 90+ skills.  I'm really not bashing the idea, myself, on the contrary.  It made me think of SWG crafting a bit, for some random reason.  Safe to say that's always an immediate +1 in my book.

 

Content only available to the highly skilled makes a lot of sense, it's just hard to draw the distinction between content of a mechanic being exclusive rather than making the whole mechanic itself exclusive, if that makes sense.

That is the main reason I went 90 skill + with it. 90 is reasonable. Getting to 90 is pretty achievable and nowhere near as hard as 100. Anyone can get to it with reasonable effort, so its not really that exclusive. It just rewards dedication.

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Something on 100 would be nice though. It's quite an exalted number to reach and giving it nothing in this system would feel a bit like a letdown. I do agree it should be something very small though, something that doesn't make the items themselves more viable than what you can make at 90. Something that benefits the crafter, not the recipient of the item. The most obvious answer to that is something involving the crafting process.

 

Perhaps being able to craft a modified item without using crystal with a cooldown? Something rather high like a week, where it isn't "marketable" but perfectly convenient for "personal needs". (I mean, within a week you can certainly farm more than one source crystal by excavating somewhere, the idea is that if you wanna pump out modified items for sale, you'll have to invest source into it.)

Edited by Flubb
source crystal, not salt

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I think there is a key aspect missing here; source crystals are a resource findable at any skill level.  This kind of change would give them a much higher value, thus offering lower level players something viable for trade; something that most new players acquire a few of.

 

On the other hand, it's just raising the bar yet further for someone to feel useful in their local community as a crafter.  Why use your local 70 skill weaponsmith at all, whatever they make you will need to be replaced later on by a modified weapon from a 90+ weaponsmith?

 

There is also the matter of balance; who is going to burn up a source crystal to improve a healing cover, when it could be used to make a better piece of permanent equipment? 

 

The idea itself is a good one, but I think it would benefit from allowing existing items to be "reforged" into modified variants (preserves existing rune/enchantment, resets QL to creation).  That way, you're not going to drive sub-90 crafters out of business.  I also think balance needs working on, a lot (since I fully expect to be able to modify my own healing covers without bankrupting a mine thankyouverymuch).

 

+1 with the changes mentiond.

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