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Eyesgood

POLL - Please Vote

Remove Pay With Silver Option But Reduce Monthly Premium to 5 Euros.  

63 members have voted

This poll is closed to new votes
  1. 1. Remove the 'Pay Premium with In-game Silver' option from the game but reduce the monthly premium to 5 Euro.

    • I agree.
      11
    • I am indifferent.
      4
    • I disagree.
      48

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  • Poll closed on 07/11/18 at 03:48

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Please take a moment to vote in this poll.  Feel free to support your position with debate.

 

Update:  Some have asked why remove the Pay with Silver option?  The reason is pretty simple in my mind.  Every player who pays monthly premium time with silver is NOT paying Code Club to play this game.  My hunch, and it has now been confirmed in my mind by the poll numbers of those who definitely do not want it changed, is that most of the high-end players are NOT paying real money to play Wurm.  Most are likely selling items to lower-end players who are (in many cases) forced to pay for premium with real money because they have low skills.  Since I am pretty sure the player base is top-heavy, this could mean that most players do not buy premium from the shop, and thus, the game financials are probably not good as a result.

 

My thought was that if we all paid premium with real money, perhaps this could allow the devs to reduce the premium costs back to the old premium rate of 5EU.  By lowering the monthly premium, more players could have more toons, and the game might be a bit more affordable for new players as well.  Go ahead and try to sell a new person on Wurm when you have to tell them how much money it costs for 1-2 toons and a deed.  The bottom line issue for me is that Wurm is too expensive in its current configuration, and the fact that high-skilled players can literally create their own money through sales and pay for their own game time with silver, the system is only perpetuating a spiral downward.

 

I would love for the developers to give us some indication of the percentage of premium time that is purchased via the shop compared to the percentage that is purchased at the token.  My bet is that the token option is very significant -- which is a fundamental economic problem imho.

 

Edited by Eyesgood

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No offense but, seems like a not well thought out way to fast sprung up thing to vote on with way to little options. ?

 

For one, the current sub price is compared to other MMOs more than fine, 8EUR a month for Wurm where I paid 15 EUR a month for FFXIV for example.

Then there is MMOs that have subs or shop pricing going by the local currency so it is afforadble for everyone no matter what country they life in, but for that to happen in Wurm every bit of RMT would have to be forbidden and strictly enforced (not sure how many people would quit over this alone then) to keep it "fair" and plug possible abuse.

 

For me to even have a remote opinion about this I would need to see data of how many people actually do pay their sub with ingame money, how many of those are actualy newbies who struggle to meet the silver requirement for the sub and how many people are sales whales making 100's of silvers a month ingame just by selling stuff or whatever.

(and honestly, I doubt we would ever see that data)

 

That being said, I just can't have a opinion about this nor do I think it is our place to vote on it.

Throwing up the suggestion to the devs and people in charge who also have the data to make a decision is all we can do I think, but voting... no... why even... of course everyone would love to pay less, but if it makes sense in the end depends on so much data we don't know and can't / won't see or can only speculate about that it won't be of any use. ?

 

❤️

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11 minutes ago, Milkdrop said:

No offense but, seems like a not well thought out way to fast sprung up thing to vote on with way to little options. ?

 

For one, the current sub price is compared to other MMOs more than fine, 8EUR a month for Wurm where I paid 15 EUR a month for FFXIV for example.

Then there is MMOs that have subs or shop pricing going by the local currency so it is afforadble for everyone no matter what country they life in, but for that to happen in Wurm every bit of RMT would have to be forbidden and strictly enforced (not sure how many people would quit over this alone then) to keep it "fair" and plug possible abuse.

 

For me to even have a remote opinion about this I would need to see data of how many people actually do pay their sub with ingame money, how many of those are actualy newbies who struggle to meet the silver requirement for the sub and how many people are sales whales making 100's of silvers a month ingame just by selling stuff or whatever.

(and honestly, I doubt we would ever see that data)

 

That being said, I just can't have a opinion about this nor do I think it is our place to vote on it.

Throwing up the suggestion to the devs and people in charge who also have the data to make a decision is all we can do I think, but voting... no... why even... of course everyone would love to pay less, but if it makes sense in the end depends on so much data we don't know and can't / won't see or can only speculate about that it won't be of any use. ?

 

❤️

 

Your 15 EU for FFXIV buys you how many characters?  I bet more than 1 or 2.

 

I intentionally kept the question simple and the choices short.  

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I disagree, first thing that made me play more that i could buy premium with silver. This would really decrease pop overall.

 

My suggestion is - if you pay for premium you get ( along sleep powder ) deed paper, which used on deed would add 1 silver or more to upkeep.

(Yeah you could sell sleep powder for 1s but anyway more benefits to buying for real cash )

Edited by Martynas5
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Milkdrop made some good points about how we don't have the necessary financial information on how paying for silver within the game for Premium time impacts game income. How then could we come to a reasonable conclusion as to whether removing this option is a beneficial direction to go. I would imagine that quite a few players who focus upon making silver within the game use it for the purpose of paying for their Premium time, so for them this would actually cost them more to play the game even at the reduced shop price that you suggest. Then also newer players might see this as a good option for them to be able to play and eventually just see that it is time wasted earning silver when they could just buy it from the Wurm shop at a much lesser time investment.

 

Although personally I would prefer that this pay Premium for silver within the game option is removed to generate more game income, at the same time I would not reduce the Premium price either. With this being said I think the current system although reducing game income does have some positive effect in that it contributes to more players in the game than might be otherwise. Who knows? So better to just leave the current system as is.

 

=Ayes=

Edited by Ayes
spellunking
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18 hours ago, Eyesgood said:

 

Your 15 EU for FFXIV buys you how many characters?  I bet more than 1 or 2.

 

I intentionally kept the question simple and the choices short.  

Hmm, no... exactly one - you can't login more than one at the same time and even if... you can do everything from one single character in FFXIV, there is zero needs for alts.

 

I do get your point as I guess you are playing at the "requirements" of priests, but I think this was discussed previously and imho it is up to everyone themself if they think they totally need a priest or second character to play the game or not... in the end this is a MMO, if you want to be self-sufficient and play the game alone hermit style then this is the players choice, not a faulty game design that needs fixing with cheaper subs.

And for Wurm, if I had a second character I would want to play it at the same time as the other character I may have - Wurms pace does make this easily doable - specially with high ML on one or two characters.

(I tend to play my main and 3 priests and tbh, even if I could make a second character on a single account that would be paid I doubt we would be able to have both online at the same time - as other MMOs do not allow for that either and I think that would just dilute the sub itself... two chars for the price of one and both being online at the same time... yea not happening.)

 

I could see an account management system where you can manage all your characters and payments from one account and then you pay for "online slots" - like you have 4 characters, you buy 6 months of premium time and then you can select which of the characters gets how many months premium to allow for easier management or whatever makes sense.

Though that would probably not contribute to increasing Wurms playerbase, so I would consider that wasted dev time at the moment.

(I did spin this idea a bit further but realized how it just becomes more dumb/useless right now so eh... ^_^ )

 

Anyhow, that was a bit off topic.

In terms on increasing the playerbase lowering the sub price is imho only a bandaid at best and we can not tell if this bandaid would even stop the bleeding or make it worse.

 

The devs are currently working on so many backend improvements, not to mention the new UI - when those things are done and there is a visible major version shift happening - THAT is when I hope they hit the marketing drums and spread the news of the changes which would have a huge impact on the gaming experience and then we can only sit back and see what happens.

Personally I don't mind Wurm being niché - but I do certainly want it to be stable within that niché and the company to do well.

 

(and for the record, I do buy prem for my 4 characters with real money via the shop ❤️ )

 

I do appreciate you taking time to ponder things though, we all love this game and yes... there are worries and I wish the staff could take some of those worries of our shoulders.

Us being able to see sub numbers dwindling with (apparently) little being  done to fight it can be nervewrecking at times.

However, I have hope, I trust those guys and I hope for what I said above to be working out if that is their plan.

 

Maybe... if it is not asked to much we could get an update on this when the dev team has calmed down from the recent bad news (I am still shaken and I was not that close to her at all) - I am sure that changed things quite a bit, seeing as it was last done in May 2017:

 

And sorry for the derail... I just think this all meshes together. ._.

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why would paying premium with silver be removed? what does it accomplish? if someone pays with silver they most likely aren't going to pay with real money if silver prem is removed, they'll just leave.

Edited by Oblivionnreaver
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15 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

why would paying premium with silver be removed? what does it accomplish? if someone pays with silver they most likely aren't going to pay with real money if silver prem is removed, they'll just leave.

This. I understand initiative to promote paying with real money rather than with silvers  but removing option to pay with silvers is a bad idea since for some players is only option and they would probably quit.

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My question to all of these kinds of threads is this:

Why do some people believe there has to be an influx of new players??  Has CodeClub come out and stated that if we don't get more people, they'll have to close up shop?  

 

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32 minutes ago, Ricowan said:

My question to all of these kinds of threads is this:

Why do some people believe there has to be an influx of new players??  Has CodeClub come out and stated that if we don't get more people, they'll have to close up shop?  

 

Certainly not.  But every player that loves Wurm wants to see more players love Wurm.  There doesn't have to be an influx, but it sure would be welcomed.

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Get out of here with this seriously, also wrong forum suggestions are that way here ! Plenty of people buy silver from the shop and use it to fuel the economy this allows others to use said silver to fuel there priests and other accounts and continue the cycle. Code club has no issues making money believe me or not, they really should think about adding the cash shop to increase profits and use those profits for advertising and other improvements to the game like new sounds / art assets / commissions etc.

 

There was another suggestion about adding a 'weekend warrior' type plan which I thought was really wise, here:

 

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For as much as I love wurm, I think the price we pay is about right. And if it were lowered the support this game has would also be lowered. 

   I don't have loads of money to dump into wurm either, but I'll keep paying for premium because I love this game. 

    I would not be opposed to donating to the game also. 

    For what's it worth, that's my two cents 

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If you don't want to pay for premium switch to Wurm Unlimited... Nothing easier than that.

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I'd rather see a server with premium costing 2x or even 3x as much but no cash shop or RMT at all, completely isolated from current WO economy and tweaked in a way that the game provides enough silver inflow through gameplay (plenty of ideas for that on WU).

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I've said before, and I'll say it again, this game isn't expensive unless you want it to be. I played a year on a minimal sized deed with one character. It wasn't until I wanted a bigger farm, more stables, and a priest that I decided to expand, and expand, and expand yet again, but I didn't HAVE to. 

 

If they really wanted to make money they'd go to a microtransaction type system. Need sleep bonus? Pay 2EU get 2 hours. Want a special statue for in front of your deed? That will cost you. Want to change your character's appearance? Fork over some cash. 

 

I hate microtransactions, because typically they're a p2w benefit, but for cosmetics they can really boost income. We all know, there are many who will pay to have another "shiny" for their deed or character.

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whatever we pay ... money for sure dont go into advertise!  and that is bigest issue i see...  without well payed ads no new players, no new income... ask around ppl if someone hear for wurm?  nobody....  only our little base.   im 100% if wurm start advertise with adwords program  that will be big step and game will be way more interesting.

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Wurm used to have cheaper prem and no option to pay with ingame cash. The playerbase was so much lower back then. Jkhome would crash if more than 50 were online. There doesn't seem to be a reason to remove it, since it was added the playerbase has not declined.

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Oblivionnreaver gives a very good point, and I am an example of this point as a younger person who does not own their own bank account or anything, I pay with only silver and worked from the ground up to be self sufficient.
If premium with silver went away... then so would I completely as a player.

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18 hours ago, Wiolo said:

I am an example of this point as a younger person who does not own their own bank account or anything

For anyone in your position the Wurm Shop has options when using Xsolla to pay with various gift cards and cash cards, even in different currencies/countrys. They are always less expensive than using the PayPal option too. I read that you prefer to pay in game with silver but you have these Xsolla pay options as well which require no bank account or credit card. Even if just for curiosity log into the Wurm Shop to check it out.

 

=Ayes=

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I think the issue is that no silver is really being generated. It's just being recycled forever.

Why not take silver used to pay for premium out of circulation? At least according to my understanding, the silvers used for premium are put back into the coffers and people can botanize/bury/etc the coins back.

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In fact, I do not think that all silver collected by all means (paying prem, upkeep, contracts etc) are redistributed from the coffers. CC has a leverage here to steer the amount of silver in circulation. Everytime people buy silver for cash in the shop, new silver is emitted indeed. All inter player sales and purchase just redistribute emitted silver.

 

Observing the trade channel one finds that the cash for silver trade is below the official shop pricing of 1.6€ per silver. Mostly 1€/s is offered, sometimes 1US$/s demanded. The pricing seems to be quite unelastic, though, and demands for higher quantities of silver are frequently repeated over a prolongued period so that I assume the buyers eventually give up and turn to the shop.

 

Admittedly this is merely speculative, I have no insights into CC's or the devs' and admins' internals.

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New silver is generated, i know plenty of people that buy silver/gold from the game store because they don't like dealing with paypal and other people, or posting in trade chat can take hours to find a seller. When you spend money in traders/deeds/premium, from what i've been told it's around 50% of the money gets destroyed and the other 50% gets re-added to the pool which is trickled into trader/random rare coin pools(Example, you buy a shaker orb for 5s from a trader. 1.25s remains on the trader, 1.875s is removed from the game, 1.875s goes towards the main pool) , but they can also pull from the main pool if their pool is drained. So 1 silver from the shop ends up with about 1.8 silver worth of services in total. If nobody is buying silver eventually there'll be no silver left in circulation as deeds/silver premium are silver drains, but the total silver in circulation hasn't dropped that much so there's enough people buying silver to counteract the silver drain. If there was a much larger playerbase this would be much more noticeable but as it is there just isn't enough people to see a massive effect from this, and atleast from the people i've talked to the majority of them buy the one year premium and silver is used to prem priests for 15 days when they're needed.

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